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Why is Dragon Ball Z so universally loved?
- Thread starter DeSo
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Sounds like a cop out to me...
Imagine your first shonen being HnK
Anyway, it's because of that wwe like hype and nostalgia. I think it's pretty ass in retrospect.
because they decided that DBZ wasn't really about Goku passing the torch to Gohan, but about Goku and Vegeta's bromance
Polioliolio
Member
It was good guys and bad guys pounding on each other in a way so raw, that the more they pounded on each other, the stronger they would get, and their strength was so incredible it even changed them physically.
I'm not ashamed to admit I love it.
edit: I also need to add that while the art wasn't extravagant, it always had extra detail because of the rough lines that sterile modern animation styles just can't do.
Comparing a great scene in DBZ to the best fights in Super, and there's just something incredibly lacking... it's so fake.
I'm not ashamed to admit I love it.
edit: I also need to add that while the art wasn't extravagant, it always had extra detail because of the rough lines that sterile modern animation styles just can't do.
Comparing a great scene in DBZ to the best fights in Super, and there's just something incredibly lacking... it's so fake.
A big part of it for me as a kid was the serialized nature of the story, seeing a cartoon where it explored a storyline often continuing right where it left off in the last episode was cool and different, and the show wasn't afraid to be a bit more serious with its story(even if the networks showing it were). That would eventually become very common with shows on Toonami, but it was something that hooked me right away.
Growing up, I could start to see its flaws better, but its cast of extremely likable characters, Akira Toriyama's charming artstyle, and its all around fun storylines and ideas creates a timeless journey that more than makes up for any issues it has in my eyes.
Growing up, I could start to see its flaws better, but its cast of extremely likable characters, Akira Toriyama's charming artstyle, and its all around fun storylines and ideas creates a timeless journey that more than makes up for any issues it has in my eyes.
Toriyama was famously lazy, and avoided using tone until he started using computers, so everything's generally white or black in his older manga. I think Staff Officer Black was one of the few times he actually consistently shaded someone, but maybe my memory is off. I don't think he was all black like Mr. Popo at any rate.
I guess he was a servant to Red? But he's also in a military and Red's the leader, so I don't really think much of it. He wasn't the mastermind, he just took over when he found out that Red's motives were stupid. Honestly, he was kind of boring. He's as evil as anyone else in the Red Ribbon Army, he wasn't an outstandingly good or bad fighter (still got curlstomped by Goku though), and he didn't have any real personality quirks. Just a hardworking evil dude.
I know his design is super offensive, but I ended up really liking Mr. Popo when I read the manga. He completely dominates Goku in his only fight, then tells Kami that Goku's probably too weak to be worth training. How many people get to do that?
Ban Puncher
Member
We got the manga here before the anime showed up. I was pretty much hooked from chapter 1 because the characters were interesting, the story was funny and the world was awesome. Akira Toriyama makes some awesome art too! By the time the anime started and the manga reached the point where Z begins, it was just great to follow the the evolution of the power levels and growth of the characters. Goku had a son now and it turns out he was an alien! I mean what- @_@
Cpt Conifer
Member
I think one of the major things that made it special, and take off massively in America, was actually the honest and intimate way the story portrays training sessions. I mean we may have known that, say, DC superheroes like Batman trained hard, but Dragonball is the only cartoon, as far as I know, to spend huge portions of the storyline dealing with it.
I met kids who started working out because they were that inspired by Goku and Gohan. And even if you didn't, the whole thing was just undeniably inspirational. I'm even thinking of how understatedly forward thinking it was that you had Vegeta finally achieving his "moment" when his sheer jealousy of Goku comes to a head, but he had to earn it through far more complex hardship than Goku himself.
So yeah, I'm saying, straight-up, it was the pattern of training sessions before the major fight that made it a hit. When you think about it, it's almost identical to the WWF, which was already huge here in NA, except it takes the benefit of being total fantasy wholesale.
It's something (again, the training aspect and how well it's blended into the story) everyone, across all cultures and ethnicities, can appreciate.
I met kids who started working out because they were that inspired by Goku and Gohan. And even if you didn't, the whole thing was just undeniably inspirational. I'm even thinking of how understatedly forward thinking it was that you had Vegeta finally achieving his "moment" when his sheer jealousy of Goku comes to a head, but he had to earn it through far more complex hardship than Goku himself.
So yeah, I'm saying, straight-up, it was the pattern of training sessions before the major fight that made it a hit. When you think about it, it's almost identical to the WWF, which was already huge here in NA, except it takes the benefit of being total fantasy wholesale.
It's something (again, the training aspect and how well it's blended into the story) everyone, across all cultures and ethnicities, can appreciate.
Dude grew up and made something of himself and married a woman who isn't an insane harpy.
I personally prefer Dragon Ball over DBZ for a variety of reasons but to this day all of Dragon ball is something I can sit, watch and find a lot of enjoyment. Toriyamas art, great cast overall, and just fun.
It's also one of the few anime that I have to watch Dubed because I can't stand high pitched Goku, and probably some nostalgia.
It's also one of the few anime that I have to watch Dubed because I can't stand high pitched Goku, and probably some nostalgia.
Toriyama said ones, that he regret giving Cell dark dots. Since he always forget drawing them and there were a big hassle. Black people are similar annoying to draw in black and white, in a short time frame and low budget. American cartoonist have much more time and very often a color artist, so having black characters isn't much of a hassle there.
Oda creator from One Piece goes around this by creating different races (fishman, strange body types, giants, dwarf, furries, etc.), which are still all white.
Yeah I've been watching Super subbed and it's hard for me to really appreciate it since I grew up with these characters speaking English. It's likewise why I can't really watch FMA subbed.
Super is better than Z by the way.
That only explains why there are few black characters. That doesn't explain why black characters had fat red tire lips, beady eyes that were much closer together, bad teeth, messy hair, etc.. None of that has to do with drawing difficulties.
I haven't seen Super because I need the dub! I tried and failed
I have heard good things, so im excited to finally get a chance to watch it.
The original Dragon Ball will always have a special place for me though.
Sadly, that's just how Japan sees black men. One Piece gets into sometimes too.
It's one of the most cringe inducing aspects of anime.
Chaotic-Strike
Banned
People didn't pay attention to the fact he hates fighting and wanted to be a scholar since he was a child.
The dub is airing on Toonami right now, and episode 3 comes on tonight.I haven't seen Super because I need the dub! I tried and failed
I have heard good things, so im excited to finally get a chance to watch it.
The original Dragon Ball will always have a special place for me though.
I think it's just that the Japanese absorbed images of black people from overseas, and having no black people in the country themselves, did so uncritically. They just saw the images, enjoyed them, and used them.
This...
Although Toriyama did plan for Gohan to take over but then thought Goku is just the better fit.
Alex_Mexico
Member
DBZ right until after Namek explodes is nearly flawless. But it takes a dive with the Android saga and crashes head first with the Buu saga. You could tell Toriyama had the story thought out until the end of Freiza's. After that power levels stop making sense, time travel fucks everything up, and both Cell and Bu are incredibly boring villains with he same gimmick: they can regenerate, which makes the fights super boring.
DBZ is a 10/10 until Frieza saga. Android/Cell is a 6/10. Saiyaman mini saga is a 9/10 (loved it, reminded me of OG DB). Evil Bu saga is a 3/10 bore fest.
DBZ is a 10/10 until Frieza saga. Android/Cell is a 6/10. Saiyaman mini saga is a 9/10 (loved it, reminded me of OG DB). Evil Bu saga is a 3/10 bore fest.
The entire Namek/Frieza saga is hot garbage full of filler mouth gaping episodes.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
It was Dragon Ball Z Kai or whatever that was a reedited version of DBZ with all or most of the filler cut out wasn't it? I imagine that'd be more enjoyable to get through, don't think I watched more than a few episodes though. Also prefer Dragon Ball and yeah I prefer the dub as well, nothing against the lady who did it but I wasn't a fan of adult Goku's original voice.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Alex_Mexico
Member
You must absolutely hate the Evil Bu saga then if you think Namek was "hot garbage".
It unfortunately it's certainty a case that shading is a bitch.
Oda commented Boa is the hardest to draw just due to shading her hair.
Toriyama made Super Saiyan blonde because in the manga he can just leave it white and didn't have to shade it.
Just wait till Jojo part 6 gets animated and all will be redeemed.
Absolutely. Wrestling is the perfect way to describe DBZ like somebody did before. The whow was written to not end, basically. At least with Dragon Ball, the story is straightforward.
This is a big reason why I like Yu Yu Hakusho a lot more than DB/DBZ. The story actually ends in a complete way. It never feels like the protagonists are there to indefinitely fight the next greatest foe. They all actually have lives that they are trying to pursue beyond fighting to defend the world. DBZ almost never develops their characters to have any meaningful life goals outside of just getting stronger .
Ultra Numb
Member
He doesn't mind fighting. He entered the tournament for a reason. He just doesn't like to kill/hurt until a pivitol moment in his development.
That whole scholar stuff was really early on anyway and clearly faded out as the environment and events around him changed him. Android 16's speech and Goku's death were the nails in the coffin - before he was still someone that wasn't a " true fighter" - he didn't like to hurt. But he eventually came to the realisation that its not a sin to protect those he loves, even if he has to kill.
Goku decided not to come back and passed the torch over to his son, at this point hes the protector of the planet and Gohan knows it. Being a scholar is the last thing on his mind.
Until Buu Saga
I just read all of Dragon Ball last week. It's a really fun adventure series and it still holds up.
I wish they had done a Kai version of the boyhood/training arc.
I mean, it's pretty much the same arc as Demon King Piccolo
I wish they had done a Kai version of the boyhood/training arc.
I mean, it's pretty much the same arc as Demon King Piccolo
neurosyphilis
Definitely not an STD, as I'm a pure.
The only Anime I can tolerate these days. The rest is just weird and corny shit to me. No offense.
Teren_Kanan
Member
Show is every child and teenagers desire. Pure power fantasy! What's not to like at that age? For most of the adults, it's pure nostalgia.
Absolutely loved the show growing up. How many times did I watch the start of DBZ up until goku arrived on Namek before the rest of the show was dubbed? I remember finally getting internet and Downloading the entire show on shitty small ass Realplayer videos, with just the worst quality ever. Loved every minute of it.
As an adult though? Show is absolute garbage. I literally cannot rewatch it. All I can do these days is skip through to fight scenes and power ups. Even the fights aren't as good as I remember, so much stand still talking and filler in between every punch.
That's why DBZ Abridged is one of the best things EVER. It has totally given me the ability to enjoy the characters/universe again as an adult. Hits all the nostalgia beats while being hilarious. The voicework is amazing too.
Dragon Ball Super.. just a hot mess wow is it terrible. But I might think differently if I was a teenager again.
Vegeta as comedic relief character? gtfo.
Absolutely loved the show growing up. How many times did I watch the start of DBZ up until goku arrived on Namek before the rest of the show was dubbed? I remember finally getting internet and Downloading the entire show on shitty small ass Realplayer videos, with just the worst quality ever. Loved every minute of it.
As an adult though? Show is absolute garbage. I literally cannot rewatch it. All I can do these days is skip through to fight scenes and power ups. Even the fights aren't as good as I remember, so much stand still talking and filler in between every punch.
That's why DBZ Abridged is one of the best things EVER. It has totally given me the ability to enjoy the characters/universe again as an adult. Hits all the nostalgia beats while being hilarious. The voicework is amazing too.
Dragon Ball Super.. just a hot mess wow is it terrible. But I might think differently if I was a teenager again.
Vegeta as comedic relief character? gtfo.
Watch better anime.
Yeah, Pucci is rad. It's really funny to see such a visceral depiction of American racism in an early 2000s manga.
Granted he had Avdol
die first twice.
That's not exactly a crazy opinion
MissDeviling
Member
The humor was amazing. My favourite arc was probably the pre-Buu tournament. Just seeing the Z fighters flaunt their power without so much as barely lifting a finger was hilarious. When they all get together, it just feels like a big family reunion because we watch them through their life stages.
The art was really iconic too. Liked a lot of the character designs.
The art was really iconic too. Liked a lot of the character designs.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
90's kid. Gateway to anime. Holds a strong place in my heart ♥️♥️♥️
The only thing that was ever funny in DBZ was Goku and Piccolo learning how to drive. Well, that and Yamcha's existence.
Sure I guess. I'm just saying as a black dude, it's hard to hear that there's this invisible barrier in the way of being represented more, even if the excuse has some legitimacy.
Oh well...
DBZ has been both weird and corny plenty of times though...
Also this.
Yea, that's what aggravates me the most. It'd be nice to see designs that look more like this:
I was so shocked when I first saw the character. Black protagonists are rare as fuck lol
One Piece is better though
Well of course.
Chaotic-Strike
Banned
Don't forget that Gohan was blackmailed by Videl to participate in the tournament.
You keep saying one thing but the narrative says otherwise both Vegeta and Goku call Gohan out for not training seven years and even during the Cell games, Gohan flat out tells him he doesn't like fighting like his dad does.
That's why Cell had so much trouble getting Gohan mad enough to fight him in the first place. After that point, he wasn't thinking rationally or about protecting anyone he just wanted to see Cell suffer as much as possible after being pushed past his breaking point. He even calls himself out on it when Cell tries to self destruct.
You also can't say he doesn't have being a scholar on his mind when his very first appearance in the Buu Saga shows him heading to High School.
It has always been part of his character.
Sure I guess. I'm just saying as a black dude, it's hard to hear that there's this invisible barrier in the way of being represented more, even if the excuse has some legitimacy.
Oh well...
DBZ has been both weird and corny plenty of times though...
Also this.
Yea, that's what aggravates me the most. It'd be nice to see designs that look more like this:
I was so shocked when I first saw the character. Black protagonists are rare as fuck lol
Well of course.
I like Black Guts
Subpar Spatula
Banned
It was common during the 90s when you didn't see much of that. It's why He-Man is popular.
this looks pretty dope, is it good?
To be real, DBZ is dumb fun, and story-wise original Dragon Ball is better, but in my experience there was simply nothing else like it on American TV animation in 1996.
DBZ was exposed to Americans in that mid 90's period when it was still "Japanimation" and American kids had been exposed to almost no anime at all. This was what? A year before Toonami debuted? Cowboy Bebop was still two or three years away. There had been some anime on TV here and there like Sailor Moon, Ronin Warriors, and Teknoman, but DBZ was far easier to catch on TV from what I remember. And even among the anime available on western TV at the time, serialized animation was almost unheard of. I think DBZ was the first serialized show I ever followed.
And on the animation itself, there was absolutely nothing as energetic as DBZ in American animation in the 90's. No other show had fight scenes like this. Really, every element of the show made it immediately stick out in the climate in which it first debuted in the US. At the very least there had been nothing like it since the 80's.
DBZ was exposed to Americans in that mid 90's period when it was still "Japanimation" and American kids had been exposed to almost no anime at all. This was what? A year before Toonami debuted? Cowboy Bebop was still two or three years away. There had been some anime on TV here and there like Sailor Moon, Ronin Warriors, and Teknoman, but DBZ was far easier to catch on TV from what I remember. And even among the anime available on western TV at the time, serialized animation was almost unheard of. I think DBZ was the first serialized show I ever followed.
And on the animation itself, there was absolutely nothing as energetic as DBZ in American animation in the 90's. No other show had fight scenes like this. Really, every element of the show made it immediately stick out in the climate in which it first debuted in the US. At the very least there had been nothing like it since the 80's.
It's pretty short, only 3 vols. but it's fun ride. Nothing mind blowing but worth an hour or two for sure
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