SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Even when we have a situation like Halo 5 where 60fps is prioritized, you have bitching about the graphics. And that's on an enthusiast forum.
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Why is fps such an afterthought on consoles? Seriously, not even locked 30fps?
- Thread starter Oyashiro
- Start date
Even when we have a situation like Halo 5 where 60fps is prioritized, you have bitching about the graphics. And that's on an enthusiast forum.
You basically asked if cigarettes were banned would we see the end of cancer for forever.
The answer is no. And that might be a bad analogy given the hay day of PC exclusives frequently saw hardware busting releases requiring updates more frequently than today's rigs, whereas a successful cigarette ban would at least see a likely drop in cancer rates.
I don't think most devs have the time to hit a locked 30fps or 60fps or set it as a priority that the whole team gets behind so they fall at the final hurdle. Shame, because another generation and it's still around but only prettier games. Most times I get the feeling they've spent a lot of time on graphics and when they optimise the game later on, they don't have the time to make any big changes to lock at 30fps or 60fps. It should be a high priority because I really don't think games will suddenly get ugly if they try to lock a framerate, it's just a time and money issue or a badly thought out development plan.
Triforce141
Member
I think the only thing that bugs me more than an inconsistent framerate, would be screen tearing, vsync should be a higher priority tbh.
Yep, look the performance level of Uncharted 1 early PS3 which felt standard at the time and now we will get Uncharted 4 which will be rock solid 30 based on the long E3 demo. That's why there was a bigger than usual uproar over Unity I think.
I agree that there are people who have interest in knowing about framerates on PC or other technical details. I don't know one in particular but it should be easy to find still.
leatherhat
Member
Console developers should base their games around 1080p and 60 fps but for the most part consumers are perfectly fine with sub 30 so they don't bother. Fortunately there are still a lot of developers (mostly Japanese) who realize the importance of it.
Gunstar Ikari
Unconfirmed Member
I feel like people would care more if 60fps were the norm instead of 30 or below.
Very few people would give a damn about an open world game running at a locked 60fps, but a traditional fighting game running at 30fps would get eaten alive.
Very few people would give a damn about an open world game running at a locked 60fps, but a traditional fighting game running at 30fps would get eaten alive.
RocketRacoon
Member
My Infamous SS ran at 60 90% of the time OP, I hope your PS4 is okay 
That is true, I really cannot tell the framerate. Admitedly I don't know where and how to look, but it never affects my enjoyment of the game. Of course, I do notice when the framerate dips, but I just brush that hiccup off and keep playing.
To me, fraterate is a trivial matter that will never influence my choice of games.
nice post
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Because nobody cares. No not even you really care.
Only just a few years ago, one of my mates upgraded his computer and installed Supreme Commander, and proceeded to play the game at 800x600 for days until I walked over to see why the screen was so blurry lol. I just couldn't believe it.
NullPointer
Member
Is everybody here taking Fallout 4 as representative of all console games?
Has to be because I really don't get this thread otherwise.
Even Halo 5 is 60fps now.
Has to be because I really don't get this thread otherwise.
Even Halo 5 is 60fps now.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I love PC elitism lol. "If you want to play modern games at stable rates, just drop $1000 on a good pc geeze".
The notion is so goofy lol. PS4's were sub $300 this black Friday, and they come with a controller, many with a game even. What people should be complaining about, is developer mindset, keep complaining, and keep being vocal about your desired framerates. Be bold, don't purchase games that aren't running at 60 fps, you might not believe it, but you are changing a tide. Many multiplayer games are targeting 60 for that mode at least, which was definitely not the case last gen, and framerates as a whole are massively improved from last generation.
Also, if framerates are the be all end all with you, support VR. VR demands high framerate, and games targeting VR spec will probably be higher framerates in the non VR modes.
The notion is so goofy lol. PS4's were sub $300 this black Friday, and they come with a controller, many with a game even. What people should be complaining about, is developer mindset, keep complaining, and keep being vocal about your desired framerates. Be bold, don't purchase games that aren't running at 60 fps, you might not believe it, but you are changing a tide. Many multiplayer games are targeting 60 for that mode at least, which was definitely not the case last gen, and framerates as a whole are massively improved from last generation.
Also, if framerates are the be all end all with you, support VR. VR demands high framerate, and games targeting VR spec will probably be higher framerates in the non VR modes.
Yeah, I'm truly baffled by the responses in this thread. It's as if Fallout 4 and ACU are the only games people have played or people are just making generalizations based off of last gen. Performance is being taken much more seriously this gen than last.
It's the best ever if we are using averages of a 3d console since the PS1 generation. Doubt we will ever have 60fps like the 2d era, but the 2d era had a very distinct advantage when it came to. Nor did the 2d era ever have to worry about hitting framebuffer sizes in the same way we can now. Dice already mentioned it with BF4. If one could have the performance necessary for 60fps on console the problem would become the framebuffer and the lack of speed necessary to feed that architecture. We top out at 6GB from what I recall in the interview.
I love 60fps and beyond myself but console gaming until VR forces the issue to be dealt with. No gamer should advocate 30fps.If the game have the same assets you will see the 60fps title far more clearly, barring there are no engine/animation issues and your eyes will love you as there is less strain. This is science and it's sad for a crowd so hung up on technical details that both the devs and consumers don't know this any better. Yet I'm being honest it's not practical to aim for 60fps. Consoles will never have the money spent on them so this problem is lessened and it will be another decade before they could catch up to pcs. So to quite a few post saying I want to aim for best IQ you want to aim for the best IQ in compromised situation. If console gamers wanted better IQ consoles would be developed to suit it better be it fps, resolution, or IQ which even with the improvements we have this gen are behind pcs. Good pc gamers can enjoy max IQ, max depth/complexity of effects, resolution, fps and on top downsample while console gaming struggles to hit 30fps. This should be an alarm bell to console consumers but the first reply sums it up console consumer don't care to understand the issue to know they are getting a crap deal.
I like how you laugh at PC elitism and then drop down to their 'level' with stupid stereotypes.
I don't get it either. Average performance levels are so far beyond last gen. People need to go back and play some of those PS3 and 360 titles. Real shit performance wise.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I didn't say anything about pc gamer's as a whole, I'm talking about elitists who assume everyone has the means to buy a pc that will run the hell out of modern games. I own a beefy rig and I still understand the attractiveness of a console.
nkarafo
Member
Or, they can go back even further and play many smooth 60fps games on PS2/GC/XBOX. Which was the best generation performance wise. I mean just look how many racing games were 60 fps then and compare this to 7th and 8th gen.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
I faced the same problem when I bought a PS4, coming from 60fps PC gaming I couldn't believe how poorly most games ran, and even more bizarre was no one seemed to care. My friend is a typical console gamer, it's his main platform and he's oblivious to any and all technical issues. He thought Bloodborne was perfectly fine, whereas for me it felt terrible because of the frame pacing issue that was never fixed. I've enjoyed the exclusives I've played on PS4 but not as much as I would have with better performance. Until console gamers start to care and demand more we'll keep getting games that run like Just Cause 3.
Bright-Light
Member
I bought it on ps4 even though I have a sweet rig.
I guess that makes me something even worse than a monster.
Yeah, between stuff like Battlefront/Halo/MGSV/Uncharted MP, it at least feels like the pendulum is firmly swinging back to "developers kinda care about framerate" again which is fantastic after the dark days of last gen.
PC benefits when developers care about framerate on console too, since the resulting multiplatform ports tend to run hella sweet.
How is being a masochist even worse....
I'm joking around
Poster above of course it's fine I'm not that much a douche to try to impose my performance likes on people they paid money to have a pretty slideshow.
EatinOlives
Member
Is it even a downgrade, though?
Just started Dark Souls 2 on PS4 was not only surprised at how smooth the 60 fps was, but also because it's a damn good looking game of its own.
Architecture is not as complex as Bloodborne, but to be honest I really don't mind Dark Souls 2 visuals if it meant getting decent framerate. I consider smooth, high framerate to be "eye candy" just as much as geometry/textures/lighting.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I think many of the best racing games for the PS360 gen were 60FPS. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Gran Tourismo, Forza, Wipeout, Burnout, and I want to say need for speed were 60FPS no?
nkarafo
Member
These were pretty much the only ones. And no, NFS games were 30 fps as far as i know. As a Rally fan, i used to love Colin Mcrae and WRC. These franchises were 60fps on PS2 gen but on 360/PS3 they were downgraded to 30. Which is unacceptable.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
Its not an afterthought. For multiplatform devs this is how it goes.
Dev 1: Hot damn this game is awesome running at 30fps on a pc speced to console standards.
Dev 2: Yeah but we have maxed our optimization and it runs 5-10 frames slower on the actual console dev kits.
Dev 1: Well that sucks can we drop the resolution?
Dev 2: Its already 900p any less will cause a shit storm that hurt sales.
Dev 1: Okay what if we lower the graphics settings?
Dev 2: Can't do that either, if our game doesn't look SUPER HOT it will cause a shit storm and hurt sales.
Dev 1: so what can we do.
Dev 2: nothing, the market has spoken Graphics > Framerate.
Dev 1: that's so depressing.
Dev 3: I'm just playing the game on PC.
Dev 2: I've got some bad news for you....
Dev 1: Hot damn this game is awesome running at 30fps on a pc speced to console standards.
Dev 2: Yeah but we have maxed our optimization and it runs 5-10 frames slower on the actual console dev kits.
Dev 1: Well that sucks can we drop the resolution?
Dev 2: Its already 900p any less will cause a shit storm that hurt sales.
Dev 1: Okay what if we lower the graphics settings?
Dev 2: Can't do that either, if our game doesn't look SUPER HOT it will cause a shit storm and hurt sales.
Dev 1: so what can we do.
Dev 2: nothing, the market has spoken Graphics > Framerate.
Dev 1: that's so depressing.
Dev 3: I'm just playing the game on PC.
Dev 2: I've got some bad news for you....
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I'm not trying to make an argument for building a device that barely outpaces a PS4. If you want to run the hell out of modern games, you're looking to spend at least double the cost of a PS4. Getting a rig that allows me to have worse IQ than the PS4 version so I can bump the framerates up doesn't seem like the ideal way to play modern games.
And why would I include the cost of a monitor lol. I mentioned the controller because you need input. Feel free to add the $11 or whatever it costs for a junk keyboard/mouse.
Skellig Gra
Member
I care. 60fps is just so smooth. You can instantly feel it. It just feels right.
Nobody is assuming anything. The fact is if you want higher framerates, you need a PC.
The developers mindset is not gonna change either. Game visuals will garner a lot more than high framerates ever would
Gamers suck, they put pretty graphics above everything else. A good game can bomb because of unimpressive visuals, and a bad game can succeed because of pretty visuals. It's a business decision, people will buy games with framerates that often dip below 30fps and still think they're awesome looking.
wumster3000
Member
I loved Halo 5 at 60fps and would not go back to 30fps for graphical enhancements.
Not really.
They have been showing 350$ machines keeping up with the PS4 or doing better, so you can drop the hyperbole. You can literally youtube 350$ pc for something like witcher 3 or just cause 3. The GTX 970 are starting to drop in price, with the lowest I've seen them being about 200$ just last week. You don't need 600$ to beat the PS4 in to oblivion in this area anymore and I said as much at the start of the generation. While the price of the PS4 continues to drop gamers spending double launch money or what it is now can get a lot more performance. The effect will only become become more pronounced. The PS4 real value is that it's solid mid range machines that will drop in price. Yet in 2 years especially once we see 2nd or 3rd generation HBM devices it won't be able to take on mid range machines.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I agree with that. But it's not impossible for consoles to have high framerates. We've had plenty of console games that do just that. People just need to get the message across that it's the single factor when it comes to game design. The complaining seems to be working, games are slowly shifting over.
Bankastuba
Member
The Last of Us PS4 looks gorgeous and runs smooth.
Why can't all games do the same?
Maybe their devs are just lazy/incompetent?
Rushed, unoptimized releases? Those bean counting publishers!
Or maybe games are made with PC hardware in mind, then poorly ported to consoles?
Why can't all games do the same?
Maybe their devs are just lazy/incompetent?
Rushed, unoptimized releases? Those bean counting publishers!
Or maybe games are made with PC hardware in mind, then poorly ported to consoles?
Real_Madrid
Member
Jup, I can handle 30 fps fine, but playing The Uncharted Collection for example on 1080p/60fps is a wonderful experience.
nkarafo
Member
The PC parts i got 1 year ago cost me around 500$. Thats a CPU/Motherboard/Memory and a GTX 960. I already had a controller/keyboard/mouse/HDDs/case/PSU, no need to buy new ones. This is a "medium range" rig. It's neither low budget or high end. But i can still play GTAV with better graphics than the PS4 at 60fps. And Witcher 3 with stable 30fps at ULTRA (i can get above that most of the time except the main towns, so i lock it at 30). Plus, i can play my older collection of games at 60+ fps/1080p, 4xAA etc without re-buy them. And new games are cheaper in general.
So yeah, in the end it's not so much more expensive and you get your money's worth.
This.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I'm not saying it can't be done, but when your youtube video starts talking about slapping used parts together, I nod off a bit. Plus you have to factor in the ability to even assemble it, which I'd imagine the vast majority of people aren't interested in. Being able to snag parts, when they're on sale largely factors into the cost of the rig, so yeah, definitely possible, but much harder than finding a deal on a PS4.