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[Infinite]

It's not, I know weight discrimination exists. I have no use for that link :/


It tells me exceptions exist, yes.

exceptions? ok

Yes I tend to do that, sorry. I'm always hiding behind science and reason to support my arguments.

Except you aren't even doing that. Your argument is "I'm not attracted to fat people because my instincts tell me so" my argument "well your personal preferences are more shaped by your culture than what you think of as instincts" your response "nuh-uh!". That isn't science it's dogma.

 

[chadtwo]

I think the people who say that not finding overweight people attractive is shallow are basically trying to argue that beauty is more than skin-deep.

 

[Finn of Ooo]

You sure about that?

Well I didn't guess about that part, I actually looked it up.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

This is kind of one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. People don't just guess at history.

One of the worst arguments for what? That using this 25,000 to 28,000 year old statue that we know next to nothing about as proof that attraction is a social construct isn't a good idea?

That's one of the worst arguments you've ever seen? Ok sure.

 

[Kinitari]

Did you read the post Karkador made earlier about this being more like dogma than science? It was a great post.

But there is a lot of science that looks at body shape, weight and general appearance when it comes to sexual attraction, I think someone linked quite a few in response to Karkador.

 

[Blackstarhat]

i like fat people

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

But there is a lot of science that looks at body shape, weight and general appearance when it comes to sexual attraction, I think someone linked quite a few in response to Karkador.

My problem is that these arguments are made in such a heteronormative vacuum. People joke about the world being about straight men's dicks because that's actually what some believe.

 

[Infinite]

But there is a lot of science that looks at body shape, weight and general appearance when it comes to sexual attraction, I think someone linked quite a few in response to Karkador.

I'll read through those.

 

[RM8]

exceptions? ok

There are 193 members of the United Nations, and that article mentions South Africa, Fiji, Jamaica, Afghanistan and... China (lol at China being mentioned as a country that likes bigger people). It also doesn't mention any numbers, let alone sources. It's a pretty terrible argument for your statement that personal preferences are dictated by society.

 

[……forgetit]

This is kind of one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. People don't just guess at history.

I had a professor who was an archeologist and a historian, the idea came up once, and he said people do indeed guess at history. Those statues are believed to Abe fertility idols though, they're meant to be pregnant women and where prayed to so that unborn children would make it, but that's just the theory, truth is they really don't know.

 

[jerry1594]

I think the people who say that not finding overweight people attractive is shallow are basically trying to argue that beauty is more than skin-deep.

I don't think not being attracted to fat people is heinous or anything, but ditching your partner for getting fat is pretty damn shallow.

 

[Guerilla]

Except you aren't even doing that. Your argument is "I'm not attracted to fat people because my instincts tell me so" my argument "well your personal preferences are more shaped by your culture than what you think of as instincts" your response "nuh-uh!". That isn't science it's dogma.

OK we're going in circles here. Beermonkey has posted links which I think are enough. It's obvious that you'll keep insisting making assumptions about nurture you can't support so I'm done here.

 

[Infinite]

There are 193 members of the United Nations, and that article mentions South Africa, Fiji, Jamaica, Afghanistan and... China (lol at China being mentioned as a country that likes bigger people). It also doesn't mention any numbers, let alone sources. It's a pretty terrible argument for your statement that personal preferences are dictated by society.

There's nothing more to be said here until I find some "proper" evidence that you're willing to accept. So far I haven't seen anything conclusive that makes your case anyway but alas we are at a stand still here.

 

[thesuperfunk]

You take whatever you can get when you get older!

 

[Dali]

I think the people who say that not finding overweight people attractive is shallow are basically trying to argue that beauty is more than skin-deep.

It is. I mean fat people can be beautiful in their own way. It's just not a beauty the OP is attracted to.

 

[Winterfang]

Is deep ingrained in our DNA to not be attractive to fat people. We like every animal are more attractive to young healthy specimens.

 

[Vermillion]

...How did the thread become this off-topic?


No matter: OP, you're attracted to who you're attracted to. You're not shallow for not being sexually attracted to larger women. It's just life.

 

[Kinitari]

My problem is that these arguments are made in such a heteronormative vacuum. People joke about the world being about straight men's dicks because that's actually what some believe.

Of course, the structure of societ(ies) for quite a long time encouraged those sorts of beliefs. I like to think things are changing and that we are getting better at being both more objective and more accepting.

When it comes to actually discussing the sexual predisposition of straight men from a scientific perspective however, I am not an expert, but as far as I understand about the literature - there is a spectrum of weight that men are more likely to find attractive when studies are done to try and account for societal norms.

I think rather than trying to fight that though, it's important to take it for what it is: observation. It doesn't mean we have to find those things attractive, or that finding other things attractive is somehow bad - the goal of these studies is usually just to try and find trends and to understand why these trends exist, not to say that everyone should conform to them.

 

[kirblar]

My problem is that these arguments are made in such a heteronormative vacuum. People joke about the world being about straight men's dicks because that's actually what some believe.

I keep reading and re-reading this trying to make sense of why this would even be an issue given that ~95% of both genders are heterosexual and the tendency of the minority gay population to self-segregate into its own subculture with different standards

 

[Price Dalton]

You're right. In some cultures they still did. Perhaps they didn't know that it was unhealthy? I dunno.

It might not be unhealthy, depending on the degree of chubbiness and where the fat is deposited. There's a lot of evidence that women are healthiest and most fertile with "chubby" levels of body fat.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I keep reading and re-reading this trying to make sense of why this would even be an issue given that ~95% of both genders are heterosexual and the tendency of the minority gay population to self-segregate into its own subculture with different standards

Because then there's evidence that life isn't all about reproduction, sexual instinct, and finding fertile mates.

 

[Mistel]

I keep reading and re-reading this trying to make sense of why this would even be an issue given that ~95% of both genders are heterosexual and the tendency of the minority gay population to self-segregate into its own subculture with different standards

How is the ~5% not even relevant to the debate? You can't just use hetro normative statements to blanket the whole topic.

 

[ultron87]

Actually that segment of the show inspired this thread. I was just curious why people were telling me I'm a bad person for not being attracted to certain body types. Also why would I stay with someone I'm not physically attracted to? Wouldn't it be weird if I didn't want to have sex with my partner? Wouldn't they feel bad about themselves if that was the case. I can be emotionally attracted to someone and not physically attracted, and the reverse is true but somehow it's worse to be physically attracted and not emotionally attractive. I don't understand why one is shallow and the other isn't.

The Louie episode wasn't even saying that you're a bad person if you're not attracted to a fat person. It was saying that you should feel bad if you are attracted to someone but then don't date them just because they're fat.

But guys like you never flirt with me, because you get scared that maybe you should be with a girl like me.

And why not? You know, if you were standing over there looking at us, you know what you'd see? That we totally match. We're actually a great couple together. And yet, you would never date a girl like me.

It's specifically speaking to the thing you constantly see in media where it's totally normal for the schlubby funny guy to always have a super attractive wife or girlfriend but you never see the opposite.

 

[Kinitari]

How is the ~5% not even relevant to the debate? You can't just use hetro normative statements to blanket the whole topic.

I think if the question is about straight men and what they find attractive, I can understand why heterosexuality would be at the forefront.

But I think this discussion has grown a lot and I am coming in late, I'm not really sure if that's what this is all about anymore.

 

[Zoe]

How is the ~5% not even relevant to the debate? You can't just use hetro normative statements to blanket the whole topic.

That makes it sound like it's not even worth discussing things on a large scale.

 

[TangerineCloud]

The Louie episode wasn't even saying that you're a bad person if you're not attracted to a fat person. It was saying that you should feel bad if you are attracted to someone but then don't date them just because they're fat.

It's specifically speaking to the thing you constantly see in media where it's totally normal for the schlubby funny guy to always have a super attractive wife or girlfriend but you never see the opposite.

This.

It's not attacking guys who don't find fat girls attractive; it's putting society on blast for repeatedly (whether it's aware of it or not) sending the message that fat women aren't worthy of being desired, and that to love and desire a fat woman is to lower oneself.

You don't have to find fat women attractive to empathize with that.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

That makes it sound like it's not even worth discussing things on a large scale.

I'm glad to discuss the large scale problem of people saying shitty things to and about fat people.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Depends on if you're turning down hot fat chicks. If she's as wide as I'm tall, then it's a no go. Everything else is fair game.

 

[Wazzy]

I think it's shallow to completely rule out people who are overweight.

I think attraction is important and there's nothing wrong with preferences but not giving anyone a chance and just assuming you'll never be happy with someone who is overweight seems a little ridiculous.

I also feel like too many people judge the idea of being overweight as meaning you're morbidly obese.

 

[Goldenroad]

I don't know the specifics, but, in general:

Scenario 1: If she's a great person and the only reason you don't want to be with her is because she's fat, then you are being shallow.

Scenario 2: If she's a giant bitch, and on top of that she's fat, then you're not being shallow if you don't want to be with her.

Scenario 3: If she's a giant bitch and still, the only reason you don't want to be with her is because she's fat (ie. if this same girl were skinny you would date her), then you are being shallow.

There are lots of things that skinny people do that are equally as unhealthy anything that fat people do. I have skinny friends who are hooked on coke and pills and are just generally horrible people (I don't know why I'm friends with them, ok?!)...and they would not make better role models for your children than a nice lady with a bit of extra weight.

 

[Schweinehund]

Not dating someone because they're fat is fine. (Though it would be absurd not to if they're just 15-20 lbs overweight, you could be their encouragement if you really like them)

Harassing someone about their weight isn't though.

 

[Lace]

I don't think it's wrong to not be attracted to fat people. You can be attracted to whatever you want, and body physique is just one of those aspects. I feel like most long term relationships require something beyond just physical and body type is more a requirement to start a relationship.

 

[Mistel]

That makes it sound like it's not even worth discussing things on a large scale.

Apparently we are not at all based on this thread.

 

[blackflag]

I'm sure I consume more resources than the average person and I'm not even a fat guy.

I came here to say this. There are a lot of fat people that eat way less than I do. They may not choose good options like I (usually) do but in terms of resources, I eat 14 lbs of chicken a week....

 

[phillipgessert]

The shallow thing is not whether you find this person or that attractive. The shallow thing is that you told your girlfriend you'd leave her if she gained weight.

 

[figadapaura]

It's fine as long as you're not a dick about it. Not really worth debating people over.

 

[User 100115]

5'9 or so. When she started wearing my clothes (i'm 6'0 180lbs) out for dinner, it really got to me considering I used tostill do put time into looking good weight wise.

You know that 160 is still considered within the healthy weight for a woman at 5'9 right? And 120 is considered underweight?

I was once 115 at 5'9, and I was horribly underweight.

 

[Riddick]

I don't know the specifics, but, in general:

Scenario 1: If she's a great person and the only reason you don't want to be with her is because she's fat, then you are being shallow.

Scenario 2: If she's a giant bitch, and on top of that she's fat, then you're not being shallow if you don't want to be with her.

Scenario 3: If she's a giant bitch and still, the only reason you don't want to be with her is because she's fat (ie. if this same girl were skinny you would date her), then you are being shallow.

There are lots of things that skinny people do that are equally as unhealthy anything that fat people do. I have skinny friends who are hooked on coke and pills and are just generally horrible people (I don't know why I'm friends with them, ok?!)...and they would not make better role models for your children than a nice lady with a bit of extra weight.

If she's a really nice person but I'm not attracted to her because she's fat I'll be her friend not her boyfriend. Having a sexual relationship with someone I'm not attracted to makes not sense to me.

 

[JCX]

When talking about dating and preferences, I believe there is a line between 'I have never been attracted to a fat girl" and 'I could never be attracted to a fat girl"

 

[mullet2000]

Here's what I think:

I simply would not date someone that I did not find physically attractive, whether that be them being very overweight or some other reason. Sexual or physical attraction is, in my opinion, quite important in a relationship and I wouldn't enter one without it. Of course, personality and a large number of other traits are more important than that, but I wouldn't enter a relationship without attraction in 'both' of those terms. I do not think I'm being even remotely shallow about that.

What isn't okay is saying to someone you're already in a relationship with, who loves you, 'hey if you gained weight I'd break up with you." THAT is shallow as fuck. You could say something like "I want both of us to remain healthy in this relationship, let's do our best to do so" or something, and that's fine and reasonable. Threatening to hurt someone based on your preferences is not okay. This also applies to being a jerk about why you're refusing an advance from someone else. Have your preferences but don't use them to hurt others. If you do that you aren't 'shallow'.

 

[MrToughPants]

Don't see a problem with this, unless you're fat and out of shape yourself.

I prefer curvy girls myself even if I've been lifting for 15+ years.

 

[rudieboy77]

I like pretty faces and fat asses, so a bigger woman wouldn't bother me. (sorry if my comment is unPC)

 

[kirblar]

How is the ~5% not even relevant to the debate? You can't just use hetro normative statements to blanket the whole topic.

That's actually the question I'd like to pose to you. Given that 100% of females (approximately 95% straight, 5% gay) are going to be the targets of attraction for a population consisting of (approximately) 95% straight males and 5% gay females, how relevant is the gay population to the experience of the average woman when discussing this issue?

 

[Beer Monkey]

You know that 160 is still considered within the healthy weight for a woman at 5'9 right? And 120 is considered underweight?

I was once 115 at 5'9, and I was horribly underweight.

160 is only considered healthy on insurance charts for women with large frames. For small to medium frames it's 130 to 150. I agree 115 would be underweight regardless of frame but 160 is not necessarily healthy.

Of course after the last five decades the average American woman is WAY heavier than is healthy (the average American man too, we have a fat problem that has happened too fast for glandular reasons and which isn't happening to all the other countries with strong European ancestry; USA and UK = getting fat very fast).

My problem is that these arguments are made in such a heteronormative vacuum. People joke about the world being about straight men's dicks because that's actually what some believe.

Evolution is de facto heteronormative.

 

[thefunkyman]

"Being fat" is not something I would choose in a woman, but personality is king really. I've met many women that I have not been attracted to physically, who I've become attracted to after getting to know them. Likewise, I've met women that are gorgeous looking, but as soon as I get to know them a bit, I lose all interest in them. I do think it's somewhat shallow to completely write someone off before you've even spoken to them.

 

[Mistel]

That's actually the question I'd like to pose to you. Given that 100% of females (approximately 95% straight, 5% gay) are going to be the targets of attraction for a population consisting of (approximately) 95% straight males and 5% gay females, how relevant is the gay population to the experience of the average woman when discussing this issue?

No less relevant than the majority.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Attraction matters, but so does personality. If you meet the hottest girl ever but her personality makes you want to question humanity's existence, then that's a turnoff off to me.

I'm not attracted to big girls, but ill take a woman with classical beauty and brains over a super fit woman with no brains, though.

 

[orochi91]

I view fat as being unhealthy (unfit), thus unattractive.

I always encourage my rotund friends to lose some weight by pointing
out things they should try avoiding and/or do. It's because I care about their
long-term health.

I can't ever be romantically involved with a fat person.

 

[Nesotenso]

it is not.

 

[Risible]

As a fat person I see no problem in being attracted to what you're attracted to. We all have our druthers.

Saying that fat people use more resources and using that as a reason to dislike them is maybe one of the stupidest things I've read, though. Do you hate body builders? Pro football players? Cadets in basic training? I assure you that they all eat far more than me.

I coach multiple town sports teams in my spare time. I help out with Boy Scouts. I volunteer for various other organizations. I don't know you but I'm going to hazard a guess that I have a more positive impact on our society than you.

Anyway, just food for thought.