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[Mustaphadamus]

What I wanna know is whenever they try to say "Thank God" the thank is always plural. "Thanks God", wassupwiddat?

This has nothing to do with religion. This is a issue of english as a second language. Any Muslim whose first langauge is English would not say "Thanks God". You must be around a lot of S.E Asians aka Desis aka Indo-Pakistanis

oh they don't think God is going to be incarnated into human form then?

No, we do not. That in Islam is called shirk, or I think in English that is blasphemy (I think thats the best translation).

 

[Mustaphadamus]

*double post*

 

[Chuckie]

If christianity and or islam are hoaxes then they believe in a false or non existant god or even the devil if he was real and brought these "messages". Think a bit outside of your religious box.

The same is even true for judaism since there were religions before that.

You are the one thinking black/white and true/false. Islam = true does not yet mean Christianity = hoax. It might just mean Christianity is outdated. Thinking the devil is tricking certain believers or thinking bout false prophets is actually thinking in a religious box.

It might be that bhuddism is true and that would indeed mean the monotheistic religions are bullshit.

Personally I think they are all hoaxes.

 

[crazy monkey]

surprisingly good thread. I was afraid of lol religion talk all over the place. AS some one people have pointed out. Muslim belive in same higher power as Jews and christian. The definition of higher power is little changed in Christianity. Jews wil not accept christian and muslim as same god worship people, christian will do it to muslim, Muslim will say it is same universal god" higher power" .

 

[Seth C]

I never understood why people say that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

I completely understand the shared Abrahamic roots, but theologically, they are dramatically different.

From a Christian standpoint, the Islamic God is nothing like the Christian God. They are not compatible. Similarly with the Islamic view of Jesus, where their theology strips away the point of Christianity in the first place (Jesus as a sacrificial lamb for his people).

I mean, these aren't exactly minor differences that you'd find between denominations of a faith. The theological tenants of each are so far apart, that calling them the same 'God' seems pointless.

You could easily say the same thing about the Jewish God and the Christian one, and Christianity outright claims to be worshiping the same God.

Yes and no. They all claim to be worshiping the same Abrahamic deity. Judaism was there first, then Christianity split from Judaism over the issue of Jesus as the Messiah, then Islam came onto the scene and claimed that Judaism and Christianity were essentially Islam that had been corrupted over the centuries and was no-longer an accurate representation of God's will and testament.

Each makes different claims about the Deity and in this sense they are "different", but again they all claim to be worshiping the same one God and that the other two parties have it all wrong. Some Muslims feel that Christianity is not the same God because of the doctrine of the trinity in some Christian denominations, which they feel is Shirk, or "splitting god" (and thus that Christianity is polytheistic).

And many Christians would agree with them on that. Many Christians also don't take kindly to the idolatry present in that one denomination.

I guess you're right. Didn't this Joseph Smith guy write some new stuff? I wonder why generally people laugh at him and his work isn't accepted into mainline canon. :\

Because much like with the Qur'an, the Christian Bible claims to have been "complete" and thus has stipulations against "adding to or taking away" anything from it. So, if a Christian believes that, he would have to consider Joseph Smith a false prophet; someone who was trying to ADD to an already complete commandment.

 

[dude]

In Islam, there are 100 names of God, Allah being one of them. But humans only know 99 names, the 100th being known only to the camel. I always thought that was a really neat idea saying "you can never fully comprehend God". Of course, like with all faiths, people of prominence will forever claim to understand whatever god they worship and how doing x/killing y is the Holy way.

Religion is a fascinating thing.

I also like the lack of a name for god in Judaism, even Jehova comes from the line - "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" (whoever I shall be), thus Yehova.

 

[Rapstah]

I also like the lack of a name for god in Judaism, even Jehova comes from the line - "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" (whoever I shall be), thus Yehova.

I'll admit I know very little of Judaic history, but is this really the case? What about the whole "the main priest of the temple and the ark may know the name of God" thing from before the Romans tore down the temple?

 

[WorriedCitizen]

Personally I think they are all hoaxes.

That's my opinion aswell but thats beside the question that was asked by op.

 

[dude]

I'll admit I know very little of Judaic history, but is this really the case? What about the whole "the main priest of the temple and the ark may know the name of God" thing from before the Romans tore down the temple?

Well, I was told once there is a name for god, and it's 32 characters long and no one knows it. Or something. A rabbi that tried to turn me religious lol) told me that was bullshit - so really, I have no idea.

 

[Suairyu]

I also like the lack of a name for god in Judaism, even Jehova comes from the line - "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" (whoever I shall be), thus Yehova.

God should be written as G-d in Judaism, for his name is too great to be written or something. It's been so long since my religious studies.

 

[BitchTits]

The whole she-bang is "channelled" - When some nut channels information from a higher being in outer space today, they make an eBook and flog it on Coast To Coast AM - 1500 years ago they made it into a religion, go figure.

 

[Zapages]

God in other languages:

Turkish: Tanri
Arabic: Allah
Urdu: Khuddah
Urdu: Rahab

 

[Mustaphadamus]

God in other languages:

Turkish: Tanri
Arabic: Allah
Urdu: Khuddah
Urdu: Rahab

Urdu is a pigeon language. I think Rahab might be a desification of the Arabic word Raab, no?

 

[Wazzim]

God should be written as G-d in Judaism, for his name is too great to be written or something. It's been so long since my religious studies.

It is too in Christianity then right? His name is JHWH, as stated in hebrew.

 

[Azih]

Urdu is a pigeon language. I think Rahab might be a desification of the Arabic word Raab, no?

Urdu kicks ass.

But I think the Muslim insistence on using Allah in English is just stupid. God is a perfectly fine word.

 

[sphagnum]

God in other languages:

Turkish: Tanri
Arabic: Allah
Urdu: Khuddah
Urdu: Rahab

I find it pretty interesting that instead of adopting a new term for God, the Turks just stuck with a word that came from the original Turkic sky god, Tengri, a white goose that you pray to before a sword stuck in the ground. Then again, I guess Christians did the same since we don't use the Tetragrammaton.

 

[Mustaphadamus]

Urdu kicks ass.

But I think the Muslim insistence on using Allah in English is just stupid. God is a perfectly fine word.

What does it matter what language they use for Him? We all understand what is meant.

 

[SouSouRocket]

Urdu kicks ass.

But I think the Muslim insistence on using Allah in English is just stupid. God is a perfectly fine word.

Arabic is the language we conduct our prayers in, why is it so crazy? Using the word Allah kind of invokes that feeling you have when you're praying alone, even if it's in English.

EDIT: When I am praying for something outside of our usual five prayers, I feel like I should be asking for it in Arabic, even though that's silly because God understands all languages. I wouldn't use the word "Allah" when talking to non-Muslims, though.

 

[Mustaphadamus]

Arabic is the language we conduct our prayers in, why is it so crazy? Using the word Allah kind of invokes that feeling you have when you're praying alone, even if it's in English.

This too.

 

[sphagnum]

What does it matter what language they use for Him? We all understand what is meant.

I think those of us who know what we're talking about know what we mean, but a huge amount of Americans see "Allah" and think it's some other god. Take, for example, Jack Chick's infamous "moon god" tract. It's very easy to otherize/orientalize a group when they use foreign sounding terms.

Not that Muslims should stop calling God whatever they want, of course. The burden should be on the ignorant to learn. But it does present a problem.

 

[Rapstah]

But I think the Muslim insistence on using Allah in English is just stupid. God is a perfectly fine word.

If there was a way to attach a definite article to the word "God" in English without ending up with two words then it could be translated. As it is I think just "god" implies it's a god among many, which is sort of against the grammatical point.

 

[Mustaphadamus]

I think those of us who know what we're talking about know what we mean, but a huge amount of Americans see "Allah" and think it's some other god. Take, for example, Jack Chick's infamous "moon god" tract. It's very easy to otherize/orientalize a group when they use foreign sounding terms.

Not that Muslims should stop calling God whatever they want, of course. The burden should be on the ignorant to learn. But it does present a problem.

I like you. I read that first paragraph and was about to type exactly what you said in your opening sentence in your second paragraph. *tips hat* well played. I have short patience (its a character flaw). I think relying on ignorance is lazy, especially with the internet so readily available to many. You don't know what Allah means, google it. Takes five seconds. But then I guess the problem becomes, do people doing the googling have the intelligence to know how to do proper research.

 

[Zeppu]

Um, in my language of my mostly Christian country we say 'Alla' when we refer to god. It's got something to do with language or something I think.

In a related question, when the French say 'yes' why do they say it 'oui'. Doesn't that also mean yes? Are they doing it to stereotype themselves as French.

 

[Learn2read]

Question: Is the idea that the Hebrew nation decended from Abrahams son Isaac and that Muslims descend from his son Ishmael completely apocryphal or does it have any basis in any texts?

 

[Azih]

There's no particularly good reason to use the word "Allah" outside of prayers aside from 'tradition'. spagnum points out the problem well though. For people who aren't muslim or don't speak Arabic it's an incredibly misleading word to use. It's just the Arabic word for God. Christian Arabs say Allah when they're speaking Arabic. It's not a 'Muslim' specific term even.

And it's just dumb. Urdu adopted the term 'khudahafiz' for Goodbye (God protect you) which is a perfectly fine Persian turn of phrase. But now morons are saying "AllahHafiz" which is just an ugly mash of Arabic and Persian. There is nothing wrong with the word Khuda or the word God or whatever.

Example of said idiocy:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081211171031AANoUP5

 

[Seth C]

It is too in Christianity then right? His name is JHWH, as stated in hebrew.

Christians may not know it, but they call him God for lack of a better name, really. Christians also call him Father, Lord, and may recognize Jehovah of Yahweh. He is also the great I Am. They might call him The Creator. They are all really closer to titles than names. This is just my own guess at the issue, but it probably has a lot to do with the tenants against idolatry. The lack of a name, of an identifying mark, makes it harder to start creating graven images. What's his name? Don't know. What's he look like? Don't know. Moses saw his hindquarters, he appeared in a burning bush, as a pillar of fire maybe. Contrast this to the situation with Jesus or Mary and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Mustaphadamus]

Question: Is the idea that the Hebrew nation decended from Abrahams son Isaac and that ARABSdescend from his son Ishmael completely apocryphal or does it have any basis in any texts?

I reworded that question for you. You are confusing ethnicity with religion. ARABS for father is Isaac, not Muslims. I am West African and do not sure anything ethnically with Arabs and Isaac isn't my forefather. However, we do say we are a Abrahamic religion in that we follow his God and religion.

There's no particularly good reason to use the word "Allah" outside of prayers aside from 'tradition'. spagnum points out the problem well though. For people who aren't muslim or don't speak Arabic it's an incredibly misleading word to use.

And it's just dumb. Urdu adopted the term 'khudahafiz' for Goodbye (God protect you) which is a perfectly fine Persian turn of phrase. But now morons are saying "AllahHafiz" which is just an ugly mash of Arabic and Persian. There is nothing wrong with the word Khuda or the word God or whatever.

Example of said moron:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081211171031AANoUP5

you do realize that is what Urdu itself is right? Well that with hindi thrown in. Urdu is a pidgin language.

 

[mclaren777]

The Muslim god, the Christian and Jewish god are all the same guy. Christianity and Islam are spinoffs of Judaism, so why is it that when muslims say "God" it's always translated as "Allah?" Is it just a racist way to portray Muslims as the "other?"

Many of us disagree with that statement.

 

[Learn2read]

Also, isn't "God is great" a fairly common phrase among Muslims, at least seems as common as "Allah is great" to me

 

[SmokyDave]

Many of us disagree with that statement.

Exactly. 'Guy'? Anyone that has seen breasts knows God is a woman.

 

[Azih]

Many of us disagree with that statement.

Muslims don't.

 

[Azih]

you do realize that is what Urdu itself is right?

I do. So? Doesn't change anything about the idiotic crusade to remove the word 'khuda' from Urdu.

 

[Seth C]

Muslims don't.

No one should. It's quite clear that all three religions are attempting to worship the same God. They all came out of Judaism. I suppose some Christians may take issue because of Christ also being God, but in fairness it should still be the Father that Christians are worshiping. Even if Christ is the living embodiment of God, the language of the New Testament makes it quite clear that his job is to "intercede" for us. Christians are to pray to God through Jesus, as an intermediary, but still they pray to God. Christ could be seen as being God's mouthpiece to us, and ours to God, in a similar way that Aaron was Moses' mouthpiece to the Egyptians.

It's certainly fair for anyone to feel the other group is worshiping God in error, but to disagree that all are trying to worship the same God is ignorance.

 

[Mustaphadamus]

I do. So? Doesn't change anything about the idiotic crusade to remove the word 'khuda' from Urdu.

You mentioned Allah Hafiz and how they are "mashing together Arabic and Persian". I am pointing out that this "mashing up" is the main basis of the language itself. So them doing that isn't out of line with how the language was formed and is used.

 

[mclaren777]

Question: Is the idea that the Hebrew nation decended from Abrahams son Isaac and that Muslims descend from his son Ishmael completely apocryphal or does it have any basis in any texts?

Genesis 16:11-12
The angel of the LORD also said to her: "You are now pregnant and you will give birth to a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard of your misery. He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."

Genesis 17:17-21
Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, "Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?" And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!"

Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year."

 

[Azih]

You mentioned Allah Hafiz and how they are "mashing together Arabic and Persian". I am pointing out that this "mashing up" is the main basis of the language itself. So them doing that isn't out of line with how the language was formed and is used.

And that still doesn't change the idiocy of the crusade to remove the word 'khuda' from the Urdu language. We're talking about two different things here. Your point doesn't contradict mine. Khuda-hafiz is fine, the reasons for changing it to Allah-hafiz are dumb.

 

[Mustaphadamus]

And that still doesn't change the idiocy of the crusade to remove the word 'khuda' from the Urdu language. We're talking about two different things here. Your point doesn't contradict mine. Khuda-hafiz is fine, the reasons for changing it to Allah-hafiz are dumb.

It just crossed my mind what I have heard some younger Desis say as to why they do that (Khoda not being the name used for God in the Quran) and to that end I will agree with you IF Khoda is indeed for the supreme being and not a hold over from a pagan time (do not know much about the etymology of the word). However, I have heard older ones say it too, not sure if it is something that is always used in Urdu and not for the purpose of removing it.

 

[Azih]

It just crossed my mind what I have heard some younger Desis say as to why they do that (Khoda not being the name used for God in the Quran) and to that end I will agree with you IF Khoda is indeed for the supreme being and not a hold over from a pagan time (do not know much about the etymology of the word). However, I have heard older ones say it too, not sure if it is something that is always used in Urdu and not for the purpose of removing it.

Hell the word Allah is a holdover from a pagan time (which leads to some of the more hilarious Chick Tracts out there). Khudahafiz has been in Urdu for a very long time while Allah Hafiz is recent and frankly I think it's the creeping Wahhabization caused by Middle East oil money that's the cause of it.

 

[Chuckie]

That's my opinion aswell but thats beside the question that was asked by op.

I've already addressed that question. It is (in my eyes) the same god.

 

[Mustaphadamus]

Hell the word Allah is a holdover from a pagan time (which leads to some of the more hilarious Chick Tracts out there). Khudahafiz has been in Urdu for a very long time while Allah Hafiz is recent and frankly I think it's the creeping Wahhabization caused by Middle East oil money that's the cause of it.

ummm nope. Your confusing Allat (a female deity) with Al (the) Ilah (God) One was name for the supreme being and the other a idol used by idol worshipers back then.

The rest I can't speak on, im not Desi and don't know the language well enough or the history over there.

 

[Patryn]

Yeah, Joseph Smith is supposed to be the final final prophet. People took Muhammed's word for it, why not Joey's?

Wrong.

The Mormon church is always run by a prophet, and a new one is selected after the old one dies (selected supposedly by divine guidance). It's believed that the current prophet does in fact receive divine guidance and the word of God even today. The current one is named Thomas Monson.

You probably also think that the Mormon church claims that the Book of Mormon was written by Smith the same way the Quran was written by Mohammad. Also incorrect. According to the beliefs of the church, Smith simply translated an existing document, written by a bunch of Jewish people who crossed the Atlantic ocean in like submarine-type things. What he did write parts of was a later work known as the Doctrine and Covenants, which was last updated in about 1985.

Don't even get me started on the Pearl of Great Price.

Yes, I'm a lapsed Mormon, thank you for asking.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Many of us disagree with that statement.

A few have said that but I genuinely want to read a response discussing the similarities and differences from this perspective. I'd also ask this cheeky question: if it's not the same God, are you suggesting it's a different God? I'd imagine that question to not be as straight forward as it implies

 

[Mustaphadamus]

Wrong.

The Mormon church is always run by a prophet, and a new one is selected after the old one dies (selected supposedly by divine guidance). It's believed that the current prophet does in fact receive divine guidance and the word of God even today. The current one is named Thomas Monson.

You probably also think that the Mormon church claims that the Book of Mormon was written by Smith the same way the Quran was written by Mohammad. Also incorrect. According to the beliefs of the church, Smith simply translated an existing document, written by a bunch of Jewish people who crossed the Atlantic ocean in like submarine-type things. What he did write parts of was a later work known as the Doctrine and Covenants, which was last updated in about 1985.

Don't even get me started on the Pearl of Great Price.

Yes, I'm a lapsed Mormon, thank you for asking.

The fundamentalist Mormons (I don't know what else to call them) and the Church of LDS, do they share the same prophet?

 

[dude]

A few have said that but I genuinely want to read a response discussing the similarities and differences from this perspective. I'd also ask this cheeky question: if it's not the same God, are you suggesting it's a different God? I'd imagine that question to not be as straight forward as it implies

If you're going to look at these religions as an outsider, trying to analyse and study them - You must regard them as different gods.

 

[Alucrid]

No one should. It's quite clear that all three religions are attempting to worship the same God. They all came out of Judaism. I suppose some Christians may take issue because of Christ also being God, but in fairness it should still be the Father that Christians are worshiping. Even if Christ is the living embodiment of God, the language of the New Testament makes it quite clear that his job is to "intercede" for us. Christians are to pray to God through Jesus, as an intermediary, but still they pray to God. Christ could be seen as being God's mouthpiece to us, and ours to God, in a similar way that Aaron was Moses' mouthpiece to the Egyptians.

It's certainly fair for anyone to feel the other group is worshiping God in error, but to disagree that all are trying to worship the same God is ignorance.

Christ isn't "also God" he IS God, as much as God is Christ, and the Holy Spirit both of them.

 

[Walshicus]

Another question: why don't English sources translate Lira to Pound, when they mean the same thing? Its just exoticism; the Turkish Pound or Italian pound sound too familiar.

 

[Azih]

ummm nope. Your confusing Allat (a female deity) with Al (the) Ilah (God) One was name for the supreme being and the other a idol used by idol worshipers back then.

Very possible.

 

[andycapps]

Wrong.

The Mormon church is always run by a prophet, and a new one is selected after the old one dies (selected supposedly by divine guidance). It's believed that the current prophet does in fact receive divine guidance and the word of God even today. The current one is named Thomas Monson.

You probably also think that the Mormon church claims that the Book of Mormon was written by Smith the same way the Quran was written by Mohammad. Also incorrect. According to the beliefs of the church, Smith simply translated an existing document, written by a bunch of Jewish people who crossed the Atlantic ocean in like submarine-type things. What he did write parts of was a later work known as the Doctrine and Covenants, which was last updated in about 1985.

Don't even get me started on the Pearl of Great Price.

Yes, I'm a lapsed Mormon, thank you for asking.

I did some research on it back when I was in college and encountered several Mormons that were trying to argue with me about certain things. What you said pretty much matches what I learned. IIRC Joseph Smith supposedly was told by the angel Moroni where some gold plates were along with some other knick knacks. It kind of went from there.

 

[Seth C]

Christ isn't "also God" he IS God, as much as God is Christ, and the Holy Spirit both of them.

Are there three or is there one? If there is one, then Christ is "also" God. If there are three, then there is no longer one God (which we are commanded to believe). In the end, it's all a battle of semantics.

What Christian faith are you part of?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Don't the Mormons also believe that the Garden of Eden was located in what is now Jackson County, Missouri?