Captain Europe
Member
No they haven't.
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Why is Nintendo unrivaled in the AAA space?
- Thread starter KDR_11k
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No they haven't.
Bony Manifesto
Member
I think a lot of it is down to those games being established Nintendo franchises. When you see Nintendo step outside of this comfort zone, they have exactly the same problems as other publishers in getting consumers interested in their stuff.
Jimmyfenix
Member
GTAV ?
Metallix87
Member
Wii Sports and Wii Fit and Nintendogs and Brain Age were such failures last gen, right?
LegendofLex
Member
So that sudden surge of interest in NSMB (as opposed to relative disinterest in 3D Mario) came from... where, exactly? NSMB was definitely targeted at "lapsed gamers." Nintendo even admitted this.
By "disappear," I mean that instead of buying a different console, they just bought no console instead. Given how many people bought NSMB over 3D Mario, given that its sales coincided with massive hardware sales, there's really no disputing that Wii (and also DS) ushered in a whole bunch of lapsed gamers (who have consequently shown little to no interest in Wii U).
entremet
Member
They do, but it's mostly in the DD space--Dillon's Rolling Western, Pushmo, Art Academy, 3D Picross, Wii Line--although this gets lol casual gaming responses--and recently, Codename Steam and Splatoon.
Nintendo also uses similar properties to introduce new game mechanics--Mario for 3D platforming for example.
Papacheeks
Banned
Makes a lot more sense than half the other post's on a very vague thread titles.
And to the previous poster I agree with the whole NIntendo's Comfort zone.
Just surprising no one else see's it.
Metallix87
Member
I don't think it's that simple. I'm sure some where lapsed gamers, but I'm guessing most were gamers who were busy playing other stuff since Super Mario World and came back because 2D Mario was back.
royox
Member
Because the genres Nintendo do well only sells well on nintendo consoles...and when they made these kind of games on Nintendo consoles they are ignored by Nintendo audience.
Just compare New Super Mario Bros U and Rayman Legend Sales.
The Nintendo fans only buy Nintendo games on their Nintendo consoles. Nintendo games OR Nintendo exclusives. Multiplatform third party's? "We don't want other consoles shit, I bought a Nintendo to play Nintendo games".
Metallix87
Member
Rayman sold best on Nintendo systems. Also, Nintendo fans in general were upset over the Rayman Legends delay, so many likely lost interest over time.
Nintendo doesn't step in other consolidated genre (it isn't profitable in the long term), they create their own.
Just think how Nintendo redefined the concept of fighting game which were popular at the time and were based on Street Fighter 2 and Virtua Fighter.
Now Smash Bros is by far the best selling fighting game although some won't classify it as a pure fighting game because it's not based on SF2/VF.
Define "Nintendo Comfort Zone" please.
What would you like Nintendo to make that would be wildly different?
This is a pretty strange (to put it mildly) point to make, not only does game quality have nothing to do with the commercial reception of those consoles, this also has very little to do with the topic at hand.
LegendofLex
Member
And you have the market data to support that?
I tend to think that Nintendo's conclusions about the console market, since they actually led to an incredibly successful console execution strategy before the Wii hubris set in, are more correct than the assumption that everyone who owned a NES/SNES and didn't own an N64 or GameCube must have owned a PlayStation or Xbox.
It has exactly everything to do with both.
If people buy hardware for quality/compelling software, it stands to reason that people pass on hardware due to a lack of quality/compelling software. This pretty sufficiently explains the entire N64/GameCube decline: most games were going to PlayStation, and the ones that were there weren't good enough to drag people over to Nintendo.
And if Nintendo customers are willing to abandon Nintendo when they aren't compelled by the supposedly best quality games in the industry, why would they be compelled to buy the supposedly not-as-good-quality games that exist in similar genres, produced by other publishers? PS3 and 360 were successful with audiences that couldn't have been further away from the Wii/DS (and the bulk of the NES and SNES) audience. If people wanted Nintendo-like games, they got them from Nintendo, and they bombed (or at least did more poorly) on 360/PS3.
I think publishers have had trouble selling games similar to Nintendo games (in same genre) like Rayman on even Nintendo platforms when the demographic/fanbase of those genres are there. Then to try and sell them to the PSXbox demographic which leans towards more mature games, it makes it a hard sell.
Seems to be much easier/less risky to sell to a wider audience PS3/4/360/X1/PC with genres/art styles of games that do sell well there already.
Seems to be much easier/less risky to sell to a wider audience PS3/4/360/X1/PC with genres/art styles of games that do sell well there already.
MisterGrey3000
Member
Xbox/PlayStation gamers(16-35yo western males)don't buy platformers, kart racers, or Zelda-like games, so the AAA industry largely ignores those genres. It's a pretty simple answer OP.
Also, Nintendo's games are fantastic but I wouldn't exactly call them AAA.
Their games usually cost a lot less to make than something like Uncharted. Which is a good thing. Imagine if a huge flop like W101 had an Uncharted level budget, it would be a disaster.
Also, Nintendo's games are fantastic but I wouldn't exactly call them AAA.
Their games usually cost a lot less to make than something like Uncharted. Which is a good thing. Imagine if a huge flop like W101 had an Uncharted level budget, it would be a disaster.
Metallix87
Member
Everyone? Again, I said I'm sure some lapsed. My point is that it's illogical to think 30 million gamers simply stopped buying game systems because 2D Mario games stopped being released, or because Nintendo's output was less than optimal.
Bony Manifesto
Member
I said they had the same problems of other publishers in getting people interested in their stuff, not that everything else they make was a failure. Those games were successful because they captured the mass-market's imagination - Nintendo didn't have any advantage from being Nintendo (if you know what I mean).
But would it be successful without Nintendo's IP all over it? If you made the same game, but with characters nobody gave a shit about, I reckon it wouldn't be anywhere near as popular (see: Playstation All-Stars).
royox
Member
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Tell that to the guys at Crytek.
Nintendo has taken the slow and steady approach and it paid off handsomely with the Wii. The Wii U may yet pull a rabbit out of its hat, it's still too early to tell. The bottom line is Nintendo's focus on gameplay over graphics while still making visually pleasing games is something that many chasing the top-end, photo-realistic visuals would do well to learn from.
sickvisionz
Banned
For Mario, I honestly believe that the populace pretty much abandoned the platforming genre and decided they will only buy one... their favorite... the best. That was Mario. You might have some indie renaissance where games will sell like 500k units and that's an inconceivable smash hit but that's about it and not really competing on the same level.
I think they have legit rivals in everything else they make. The titles might not be approaching clone levels but they're out there.
I think they have legit rivals in everything else they make. The titles might not be approaching clone levels but they're out there.
paradise_circus
Member
I would say that Metroid Prime and Zelda Games on concurring platforms are way more successful than Nintendo's. Even though they are no obvious copy cats like fifa is to pes or vice versa.
th3sicknness
Member
If you break it down .. Nintendo has done almost every single gaming genre successfully.
Im sure I am missing plenty ..
FPS: Metroid Prime..
Racing: Mario Kart / Fzero..
2/D : Mario / Zelda / DK / Metroid..
3/D : Mario , Zelda..
RTS: Pikmin..
RPG: Mario RPG / Pokemon..
Sim: Animal Crossing..
Fighter: Smash Bros..
Sports: Wii Sports / Mario Striker / 1080 ..
Flight: Starfox / Pilotwings
Health: Wii Fit
baphomet
Member
I said goddamn.
Metallix87
Member
Because the Wii U went from a simple controller concept (Wiimote) to a much more complex, intimidating controller concept (Game Pad).
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
People trying way too hard to troll and making dumb/illogical statements
Jimmyfenix
Member
Console gamers especially Xbox/Playstation are buying Indies though. The industry is changing.
Yes Playstation and Xbox tend to cater to the mature audience but i think indies are helping produce the variety of games people are playing on their systems.
Little big planet introduced platformer level creation which can be shared with people around the world which we are now seeing in Mario maker now. It is very successful.
Papacheeks
Banned
Maybe something that doesn't have Mario, Zelda on the cover, and something relevant to the themes and genre's being explored in other games. Like the Last of Us, Heavy Rain, Alan Wake, Braid, Journey, Shadow Complex, Bastion, Portal, Little Big Planet, Gears of war, The witcher, Elder scrolls, Demon Souls, or how about anything that's open world?
LegendofLex
Member
The best part of this statement is that, by all accounts, we're on track to see a much, much bigger exodus this generation. 3DS alone will see at least three times this shortfall; Wii U and PS Vita will see even more.
It's amazing how incredibly in line this trend is with Nintendo's assumptions about the decline of the console market from before Wii even launched
that "growth" was mostly coming from multiple console ownership (due to hardware replacements/new models but also due to owning a PlayStation + something else when more people would have had just one console before)
from population growth (with Japan's population decline/aging leading to the decline of the market there, and the West on its way to following suit)
from macroeconomic trends (the same ones that led to the housing bust)
and from expansion into new markets (the rest of Europe, South America).
We won't see any of those trends work in the industry's favor this time around, methinks.
BlazeBreak
Member
Part of the reason why Nintendo makes good games is that they, in most respects, just go and make games on their terms. None of the focus testing and feature checkboxes that's polluted a lot of the rest of the AAA space.
You really can't compare PAS to Smash Bros, though.
PAS was a horrible product with horrible marketing by a publisher that basically wanted the game to fail.
Oh! So something like Xenoblade X?
Or Nintendo buying and helping develop Devil's Third?
Or Nintendo making games like Dillon's Rolling Western?
Or maybe Fatal Frame?
OneEyeTwoHead
Banned
Sony tries all the time. How many unique platformers and such have they put out? Both in retail and on PSN?
Chie Satonaka
Member
Well, yeah. I typically buy consoles for exclusives. This is true for any console that I purchase. I don't really care about multiplatform games because for the most part, they're typically games I'm not interested in.
Nintendo does some things very well. There aren't many platformers that are comparable to Nintendo platformers, 2D or otherwise. It's difficult to compete with a genre that Nintendo does well, especially in this current marketplace where 2D titles are perceieved as inferior or subpar (not worth 60 dollars!!!1) and people crave cinematic experiences and "mature" games.
Given the current climate, there's no real need. People have put it crudely in this thread, but the general premise is correct: What Nintendo does isn't for the "mainstream" video game audience right now. There's no real reason to try to horn in on their action, especially with a subpar product.
What's outside of their comfort zone? Nintendo has delved into, JRPGs, platformers, RTS, action, adventure, shmup, FPS,TPS, puzzle, "metroidvania", sims, arcade, sim arcade, many sports types, card games, mahjong, they even made a Breakout clone once
The list is pretty big and nearly every one of those genres they have excelled in. Not all of them sell well just like with any other company but for each one that fails they make a new one off, new IP at smaller budgets in that category at some point. Just that what sells on their consoles is different so we see different franchises and genres rotations than the others.
Captain Europe
Member
Like Zelda U?
Papacheeks
Banned
Sure, it's just the controller that's wrong with Nintendo, keep telling yourself that.
Metallix87
Member
I think the thing is that you're ignoring emerging game platforms, ala Mobile, Tablet, and set-top boxes like Fire TV. I truly believe the latter are the future of game consoles, and services like PS Now and visions like the Xbone's original vision will take us there, for better or worse. Heck, I'm convinced the new Razer + Google set-top box / game console will see a lot of the biggest IPs in a form that comes close to console versions.
Sure, it's just the controller that's wrong with Nintendo, keep telling yourself that.
Wow, what a compelling argument you've provided to counter my claim! I'm literally paralyzed by the sheer amount of data you've offered up to prove that I'm wrong! Wow!
royox
Member
So...you can compare Metroid Prime with Halo, Smash Bros with Street Fighter, Mario Kart with Gran Turismo, Pikmin with StarCraft2, Mario Strikers with Fifa and Starfox with Ace Combat.
I can't.
Natureboy99
Banned
TC, when did you stop torturing kittens?
Buddha Beam
Banned
I've been saying this for years. Make games that the people who buy Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Mario Kart, etc want to play and make them of the same level of quality Nintendo does.
If third parties can make a shooter that can stand alongside something like Halo, they damn sure CAN make a game that can stand alongside Mario or Zelda or whatever else on Nintendo's consoles that sell so well (except maybe Smash Bros). That goes for everything. Development budget, marketing, taking the subject matter seriously rather than just writing it off as kiddy garbage, etc.
The only game that ever really tried to do this since the N64 days was Epic Mickey. That was was a big success, although for whatever reason, the sequel was an abysmal flop, I think. But the first one showed that it could be done, at least.
Probably the biggest and most heart breaking instance of other developers NOT realizing this was the key to success on a Nintendo platform was Capcom and Okami Wii. That whole thing was kind of a clusterfuck by the time Capcom finally managed to pinch it out on the Wii. If they'd have gotten Okami out at the Wii's launch with Twilight Princess, it would have been one of the top selling games during the launch window, in my opinion.
If third parties can make a shooter that can stand alongside something like Halo, they damn sure CAN make a game that can stand alongside Mario or Zelda or whatever else on Nintendo's consoles that sell so well (except maybe Smash Bros). That goes for everything. Development budget, marketing, taking the subject matter seriously rather than just writing it off as kiddy garbage, etc.
The only game that ever really tried to do this since the N64 days was Epic Mickey. That was was a big success, although for whatever reason, the sequel was an abysmal flop, I think. But the first one showed that it could be done, at least.
Probably the biggest and most heart breaking instance of other developers NOT realizing this was the key to success on a Nintendo platform was Capcom and Okami Wii. That whole thing was kind of a clusterfuck by the time Capcom finally managed to pinch it out on the Wii. If they'd have gotten Okami out at the Wii's launch with Twilight Princess, it would have been one of the top selling games during the launch window, in my opinion.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Fixed.
Holy Order Sol
Member
You're assuming they don't own any other platforms. There's little reason to buy those games on Nintendo systems when given the choice.
That's why Nintendo pursuing high-budget multiplatform games never made much sense to me btw. Better secure more of these exclusives through partnerships and expand in order to be able to release more games themselves.
TitusGroan
Banned
To be fair, people keep bringing up Rayman Legends, but how much did Ubisoft spend on marketing that game? They pushed it out the same time as GTA V and Wind Waker HD, and right before the fall onslaught of Assassins Creed, COD, two console launches and Nintendo's own Mario 3D World.
Maybe Legends selling like crap is less to do with Nintendo fans not buying Nintendo games, and more the fact that it was impossible for a larger audience to see the game when GTA V was literally demolishing hype and sale records, and the Fall lineup was getting a huge amount of media attention? Ubisoft did the same damn thing with Origins, releasing it the same week as one of their AC titles, and again during the onslaught of Q4 craziness.
Non-Nintendo games have sold well on Nintendo hardware before. Sonic sales have always led on Nintendo hardware, ever since Sega went third party. Capcom has found success with stuff like Monster Hunter. There is room for other games to sell on Nintenod hardware, especially Nintendo 'style' games, publishers just need to remember to market their fucking games, and not release them the same time as GTA bloody V.
Papacheeks
Banned
Sure one game, that may or may not be like as open as The witcher or Elder Scrolls.
And to my point they are just now trying to make games that others for years have been making.
And they can't create a new IP, they have to use their safe zone properties. God forbid they create a new character to dig up the one of many they are sitting on, that haven't seen the light of day since Nes/Snes era.
MisterGrey3000
Member
Yeah, but indies aren't gonna make AAA companies change their minds if the games aren't doing Mario Galaxy or Donkey Kong Country Returns numbers.
1st Course
Member
Skylanders is a multi-billion dollar franchise and it's a 3D platformer. LEGO is one of the best selling game franchises of all time with over 50m copies sold to date. And there is Minecraft with 16m+ across Xbox/PS3. E rated games do sell on PS3/Xbox.
Astral Dog
Member
This does not make sense, are you saying that the N64, Gamecube, 3ds and Wii U dont have high quality games? because some of Nintendo`s very best games have been released on those systems, and even the 3ds has sold close to 50 million worldwide, there are many factors why those systems didnt sold as well as others, not quality games.
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