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[FlashbladeGAF]

The same problem is now, i might be more excited about Nintendo games if they were presented to me, or shown to me of how unique they are.

I don't want just Mario, and neither does the market, which is proven with sales.

They already have.
Check out The E3 Nintendo Treehouse footage

Games you wouldn't give a shit about our ten times more appealing when you actually see how it plays.

Didn't give a crap about Splatoon until I saw, in detail, what the game was really about.
And they didn't even go into detail about the single player but I'm already on board the hype train.

 

[Metallix87]

Nope. Space Panic

Nope. While Space Panic was a precursor to platformers, it lacks the ability to jump, and is thus not a true platformer.

 

[Nanashrew]

I don't agree with everyone saying companies can't, it's because they won't. Even if the quality is exceptionally good many don't sell well. The AAA market has dictated the course of only relying on established franchises that they know are good as well as the current popular genre. The AAA market has bottlenecked so we don't see much innovation, changes or many genres there.

We also have the problem of development time and management. We're in an era of annualized games and franchise, with varying levels of quality and polish.

Could another company rival Nintendo or any other top tier company in quality? Yes, with the proper dev time and management. It's happened many times before. Could it meet equal success? Debatable, you have to work for that success.

 

[Metallix87]

It introduced creating complex & unique levels and sharing them with a community. LBP 3 will have over 8 million unique levels from past games due to the sharing mechanic. The common argument that LBP is a mario rip off is a complete fallacy.

Something so simple has separated itself from the Mario comparison.

Fine. LBP is a Donkey Kong Plus rip-off, if it's a rip-off of anything, a point you keep ignoring page after page.

 

[Balb]

Well, excuse me, but sellin less than 1M games with a base of 110M consoles is a bit....sad.

That's a little disingenuous. There was little marketing and Europe and they begrudgingly released it in NA as a GameStop exclusive after they were begged to release it for a year. Recent RPG successes that were published by Nintendo such as Fire Emblem Awakening nad Bravely Default show that marketing helps those kinds of games a lot.

I don't want just Mario, and neither does the market, which is proven with sales.

Actually sales of Mario games are still very high relative to platform. It's just that Wii U's poor sales serve as a bottleneck for the ceiling that Mario games can reach. It's like how Mario Kart went from a 6-7m selling game on the GameCube to a 35m seller on the Wii.

 

[Metroid Killer]

Well, excuse me, but sellin less than 1M games with a base of 110M consoles is a bit....sad.

Niche franchises have niche sales, what do you want me to say? Their sales still managed to beat their projection for America and Europe, which is why we now get a sequel.

 

[Legendarylemur]

So...you can compare Metroid Prime with Halo, Smash Bros with Street Fighter, Mario Kart with Gran Turismo, Pikmin with StarCraft2, Mario Strikers with Fifa and Starfox with Ace Combat.

I can't.

You really think Metroid Prime is worse than Halo? It can go either way. Brawl alone also sold about 5 million more copies than Street Fighter 4 and all of its renditions, Mario Kart the same, Pikmin vs Starcraft 2 is arguable because they have widely different approach (for most basic, one is a single player focus, other is multiplayer, and SC2's single player is s*** compared to Pikmin single player vice-versa), Mario Strikers isn't even trying to be realistic, and same goes for Starfox.

Honestly, arguing about pure opinions... At least go for sales, where you'll mostly lose that argument. Plus, his post was based on how Nintendo made a great game on every genre, not on whether they made the best game in each genre.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I expect to see a lot of "Only Nintendo makes good games, Nintendo magic" posts.

Honestly, the worshiping of "made by Nintendo" games is annoying.

I don't think it's worship at all. Nintendo has been doing what they've been doing for many, many years, and they've been doing it consistently. Stating that Nintendo is very good at making video games and that by comparison, there aren't many devs that do it as well isn't incorrect. I'd think that even the most jaded anti-Nintendo gamer would at least be able to recognize that they do what they do quite well.

I'd also like to note that Naughty Dog is a top tier developer, and it we were going to compare modern developers to Nintendo first party studios in that regard, they would definately be one that deserves to be in that list. I say this as someone who hasn't played any of the Uncharted games, and who doesn't think The Last of Us was nearly as great as some people here claim. They're a fantastic asset to Sony, and I wish everyone took the same notes from their design philosophy.

This doesn't have to be console wars, guys. :/

 

[The Boat]

Nope. Space Panic

Donkey Kong was the first with jumping though. And SMB with the first side-scrolling platformer I think.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Ok... Then I ask again.
This has what to do with Mario Maker, a game who's level sharing abilities aren't even confirmed?
If anything, Mario Maker is just an evolution of Mario Paint.

So the game people have wanted for years might not have a simple sharing mechanic ?

Fine. LBP is a Donkey Kong Plus rip-off, if it's a rip-off of anything, a point you keep ignoring page after page.

It is hard to call it a rip off when the game you are talking about never saw the light of day.

 

[slash3584]

Nope. While Space Panic was a precursor to platformers, it lacks the ability to jump, and is thus not a true platformer.

Oh shit, didn't know that, sorry xD

 

[Wynnebeck]

Good grief this thread is a mess. Nintendo has had decades to build up well known IPs and create fun games. Sadly, thesegames don't always appeal to everyone, but Nintendo fans, and companies rather chase after what is currently making money then try to go after genres they have no business messing with. Nintendo isn't some untouchable juggernaut so some of y'all in this thread need to cut it out.

 

[Morfeo]

Nintendo-games sell because they spend a ton of effort in level design and gameplay, which is not that easy to do. Much easier to produce another shooter with a new coat of paint, which is also easier to advertise than gameplay, so most companies follow that route.

 

[Riki]

So the game people have wanted for years might not have a simple sharing mechanic ?

They haven't confirmed one way or another.
Which is why I'm thoroughly confused as to why people keep saying Mario Maker is a LBP rip off.

Again, it's really a Mario Paint evolution.

 

[Papacheeks]

Exactly, Nintendo makes just as many new IP's as any other developer, if not more.

If so, what kind of "New IP's" are we talking about though? Brain age stuff, or Something that come off the screen, and smacks you in the face with it's brilliance?

Because outside of Mario I don't see that many.

Call me Ignorant I guess, I mean Sin and Punishment may rub that arcade guy inside me. But I never felt like I needed to run out and get it for the wii.

I guess my mind is set on the Gamecube days of New Ip's. Like Baiten Katos, Tales of Symphonia, RE4, Rogue Squadron, Battalion Wars, Eternal Darkness.

Games like those were ones that made me buy the system, and I enjoyed the shit out of it, it still stand on my shelf.

 

[Metallix87]

Oh shit, didn't know that, sorry xD

No worries. The game's designer seems to want to get credit for creating the first platformer, but he's wrong, since his game lacks the most basic element that almost all platformers share. It's not a platformer.

It is hard to call it a rip off when the game you are talking about never saw the light of day.

Irrelevant. The game was there at E3 2002, and the level editor can be accessed in Mario vs. Donkey Kong with some "help".

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Touche.



This is literally coming from the guy who actively goes into every Nintendo thread to claim how much he hates Nintendo, but I'll play along with this argument for a second.

The selling point was to be a platform creator, yet the tools basically allowed it to be only a Mario creator. There were no tools for adjusting physics or manipulating time or even having characters shoot things. It's basically a straight up Mario level creator without the Mario license. There was nothing added to the game to basically make it any other platformer than a Mario clone.

Can you do make stuff like this in a Mario level creator:

The customisation, depth and variety of levels that can be made form the LBP is simply unparalleled.

Again not surprised by your posts.

 

[Somnia]

I thought they sold less than 1M copyes worldwide.

I think it was under but close to a million... not every game has to be >1 million to be successful and profitable you know?

 

[Papacheeks]

They already have.
Check out The E3 Nintendo Treehouse footage

Games you wouldn't give a shit about our ten times more appealing when you actually see how it plays.

Didn't give a crap about Splatoon until I saw, in detail, what the game was really about.
And they didn't even go into detail about the single player but I'm already on board the hype train.

I did watched the whole thing, Splatoon looks neat, and X chronicles looks like my cup of tea, but I didn't see anything else.

Hyrule Warriors i could care less because I grew out of Dynasty warriors.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

LBP's "innovation" is using the internet to share content, and that's less of an innovation and more of modernization. I'm not saying that Nintendo didn't look to LBP and it's success at all, but they had already been fooling around in that area for decades, and are just now releasing the final evolution of those earlier ideas.

Online infrastructure, 4 player online multiplayer, and sharing/publishing isn't all LBP has done. Thanks to microchip logic that functions essentially the same as UE4's script visualization, LBP has become a pretty full featured toolset that creative and dedicated people can make almost anything in, and the only consumer game that's greatly outclassed it's potential for User Generated Content is Project Spark. The evolution of "track editor" as an idea has already gone wayyyy past Mario Maker, but Mario Maker is still awesome to finally have. It's something any of us would have killed for on the NES. They're going for completely different things.

 

[Wozman23]

Sony tries. They continue to release fantastic, critically praised games like Tearaway, Puppeteer, LittleBigPlanet, Sly Cooper, and Ratchet & Clank. All are some of my personal favorites, but, with the exception of LBP, they've performed abysmally at the commercial level.

Microsoft has Rare, which has been reduced to a shell of its former self.

As many have pointed out, you can flip the question on its head: Why doesn't Nintendo compete with Sony and MS with more mature games like The Last of Us or Halo? The answer to both question is target demographics.

I for one praise Sony for their variety and depth. Microsoft seems like they may finally be branching out. Nintendo has long been stale to me since they don't develop enough new IP.

 

[AmuroChan]

I wouldn't say they are unrivaled. They've made mediocre Mario, Metroid, Zelda games before. And there are AAA developers out there who have made huge titles that sold 10+ million copies. However, I would say that Nintendo's flagship franchises do have a legacy and nostalgia factor that very few other franchises can claim to have.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

No worries. The game's designer seems to want to get credit for creating the first platformer, but he's wrong, since his game lacks the most basic element that almost all platformers share. It's not a platformer.



Irrelevant. The game was there at E3 2002, and the level editor can be accessed in Mario vs. Donkey Kong with some "help".

Why was it cancelled?

 

[Balb]

If but what kind of "New IP's" are we talking about though? Brain age stuff, or Something that come off the screen, and smacks you in the face with it's brilliance?

Because outside of Mario I don't see that many.

Call me Ignorant I guess, I mean Sin and Punishment may rub that arcade guy inside me. But I never felt like I needed to run out and get it.

I guess my mind is set on the Gamecube days of New Ip's. Like Baiten Katos, Tales of Symphonia, RE4, Rogue Squadron, Battalion Wars, Eternal Darkness.

Games like those were ones that made me buy the system, and I enjoyed the shit out of nit, it still stand on my shelf.

Most of these aren't new IPs and whether you're interested in their new IPs or not is a matter of opinion anyway.

 

[royox]

You really think Metroid Prime is worse than Halo? It can go either way. Brawl alone also sold about 5 million more copies than Street Fighter 4 and all of its renditions, Mario Kart the same, Pikmin vs Starcraft 2 is arguable because they have widely different approach (for most basic, one is a single player focus, other is multiplayer, and SC2's single player is s*** compared to Pikmin single player vice-versa), Mario Strikers isn't even trying to be realistic, and same goes for Starfox.

Honestly, arguing about pure opinions... At least go for sales, where you'll mostly lose that argument. Plus, his post was based on how Nintendo made a great game on every genre, not on whether they made the best game in each genre.

You misunderstood me. I was not talking about "better and worse" I was pretending to say they are too diferent to be considered the same game genre. Can't compare Metroid Prime with Halo...because they aren't the same. Halo is a FPS, Metroid Prime isn't. You can't compare Smash Bros with Street Fighter IV because they aren't the same. Street Fighter IV is a pure fighting game, Smash Bros isn't. Same With Mario Kart and Grand Turismo or Mario Strikers vs Fifa. Not the same genre. Can't compare them.

 

[Chindogg]

Can you do make stuff like this in a Mario level creator:

The customisation, depth and variety of levels that can be made form the LBP is simply unparalleled.

Again not surprised by your posts.

Hmm now that's a challenge for Mario Paint, I'll see what I can do when I get home this weekend.

 

[Kings fan]

Read: graphics and fluff sells

Thus they stick to the boring industry standard of serious gritty fps shooters, aliens, and zombies. Zombies and war shooters in particular - ughhh. But thise genres sell to the mass market and unlike Nintendo these corporations don't want to take risks on something new and innovative especially when games costs waaay to much money to make as a retail product.

Most of the innovation is left to low budget indie games which have much lower qualify standards because of budget or... Nintendo.

There isn't a middle ground any longer; the games of today are ruled by the generic sequelitis IPs of the past because of all the fancy graphics and technical bullshit devellopers spend most their money on instead of making a game fun to play

Nintendo is the exact opposite (fun is the number one priority, graphics and technical prowess is second fiddle) and because of this their games have stood the test of times while others sink into mediocrity as technology advances.

Nintendo has always been the leader in innovation. Of you look at almost any generation of games they have pioneered technology that others have emulated.

 

[Metallix87]

Why was it cancelled?

It wasn't cancelled, exactly. It switched platforms, from Gamecube to GBA, and the level editor was never fully finished but can still be accessed with a Game Shark. The game's general concept also shifted, from a remake of Donkey Kong '94 with a level editor, to a brand new game establishing a new sub-franchise of both the Mario and Donkey Kong franchises.

The level editor was brought back for sequels, but by then, the design shifted away from a platformer to a Lemmings design and later, on the 3DS, a new and unique style of puzzle game.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Hmm now that's a challenge for Mario Paint, I'll see what I can do when I get home this weekend.

lmao thats a playable level bro not a painting.

Just goes to show you know nothing about the subject in hand.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

It wasn't cancelled, exactly. It switched platforms, from Gamecube to GBA, and the level editor was never fully finished but can still be accessed with a Game Shark. The game's general concept also shifted, from a remake of Donkey Kong '94 with a level editor, to a brand new game establishing a new sub-franchise of both the Mario and Donkey Kong franchises.

The level editor was brought back for sequels, but by then, the design shifted away from a platformer to a Lemmings design and later, on the 3DS, a new and unique style of puzzle game.

If it came out on the Gamecube it would have been huge.

 

[Freeman]

They are the only ones who have the IPs and the audience for that. The same reason why any other game outside of the ones developed by Nintendo don't sell on their consoles (even their own games that move away from what they usually do flop, despite quality).

Look at Tearaway, fantastic game yet it flopped unbelievably hard even for a Vita title. Make that a Mario paper-craft game, release it on a Nintendo platform and watch the sales fly. LBP was surprisingly successful so maybe my theory is wrong.

There are usually competition in the same genres Nintendo traditionally make their games, they are just usually not that successful, Nintendo naturally selected their audience over the years.

Anything Nintendo releases will usually be looked upon on a better light even by critics due to nostalgia and emotional attachment people have to them. MS and Sony talk about hardcore, but Nintendo core audience puts them to shame, just look at the Smash Invitational, borderline insane.

edit: I never met someone who plays only Sony or MS games, but I know people who play only Nintendo games.

 

[Interceptor]

Can you do make stuff like this in a Mario level creator:

The customisation, depth and variety of levels that can be made form the LBP is simply unparalleled.

Again not surprised by your posts.

No you can't. Simply because mario maker is not a copy of lbp. Its a tool to make actually good platforming levels. Thanks for proving this point.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

Because other companies didn't have the luxury to be around when video games started.

 

[Chindogg]

lmao thats a playable level bro not a painting.

Just goes to show you know nothing about the subject in hand.

I was joking, but the hostility is par for the course coming from you. Back to ignore you go.

 

[Captain Europe]

I did watched the whole thing, Splatoon looks neat, and X chronicles looks like my cup of tea, but I didn't see anything else.

Hyrule Warriors i could care less because I grew out of Dynasty warriors.

Project Steam? Captaid Toad is also a completely new type of game, even though it uses Toad.

 

[Metallix87]

If it came out on the Gamecube it would have been huge.

Indeed. Donkey Kong Plus looked really amazing, and I was really excited for it. Making your own Mario platforming stages with little puzzles to be solved seemed like a whole lot of fun. The final product, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, was still a fantastic game, but unfortunately the Lemmings-styled sequels got boring fast.

I really liked the 3DS entry, FWIW, which is a brand new style of puzzle game, but unfortunately the Wii U game looks like more Lemmings action. Poor NST...

 

[Guevara]

Nintendo's space is rapidly declining. Who in their right mind would pursue it? Better to look at growing areas: F2P and mobile generally, "super" indies like Minecraft, hybrid MMOs like Destiny or Dota.

 

[phanphare]

If so, what kind of "New IP's" are we talking about though? Brain age stuff, or Something that come off the screen, and smacks you in the face with it's brilliance?

Because outside of Mario I don't see that many.

Call me Ignorant I guess, I mean Sin and Punishment may rub that arcade guy inside me. But I never felt like I needed to run out and get it for the wii.

I guess my mind is set on the Gamecube days of New Ip's. Like Baiten Katos, Tales of Symphonia, RE4, Rogue Squadron, Battalion Wars, Eternal Darkness.

Games like those were ones that made me buy the system, and I enjoyed the shit out of it, it still stand on my shelf.

Resident Evil 4 is a new IP now?

 

[Etnos]

Not too many people fight to get onto a sinking ship.

You mean the AAA space marine industry ? because, shocker:

EA: AAA studios saw 80% decline this gen

80% of AAA studios lost during the ps3 360 era

 

[Captain_Cold]

Nintendo isn't unrivaled in the entire AAA space. Nintendo's games exist within their own subset of AAA space. A good portion of their output consists of genres that aren't typically big sellers, but they're able to leverage 30 years worth of experience, quality, and iconic IPs into AAA level sales.

They don't produce anything like COD, GTA, Assassin's creed, etc.. in terms of budget, advertising, or team size (maybe Zelda), but they don't have to. Nintendo has a built in audience in the same way as say... Disney does with their film and TV output.

 

[Metallix87]

You mean the AAA space marine industry ? because, shocker:

EA: AAA studios saw 80% decline this gen

80% of AAA studios lost during the ps3 360 era

AAA is in decline because the rising costs for development mean fewer risks, fewer new IPs, and most importantly, less resources for mid-tier development. Basically, AAA HD development and the pursuit of bleeding edge tech are literally killing gaming in a sense.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

One more thing - how many copies did NSMBWiiU sell? I doubt it's as much as its Wii counterpart. Also, MK8 will not sell 35M like MKWii.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

You mean the AAA space marine industry ? because, shocker:

EA: AAA studios saw 80% decline this gen

80% of AAA studios lost during the ps3 360 era

I said earlier that the industry is changing. I still like AAA games but maaaaan Indies are providing my needs while the AAA scene is imploding some what.

 

[royox]

Read: graphics and fluff sells

Thus they stick to the boring industry standard of serious gritty fps shooters, aliens, and zombies. Zombies and war shooters in particular - ughhh. But they sell to the mass market and unlike Nintendo these corporations don't want to take risks on something new and innovative especially when games costs waaay to much money to make as a retail product.

Most of the innovation is left to low budget indie games which have much lower qualify standards because of budget or... Nintendo.

There isn't a middle ground any longer; the games of today are ruled by the generic sequelitis IPs of the past because of all the fancy graphics and technical bullshit devellopers spend most their money on instead of making a game fun to play

Nintendo is the exact opposite (fun is the number one priority, graphics and technical prowess is second fiddle) and because of this their games have stood the test of times while others sink into mediocrity as technology advances.

It's fun...because most games of that "sequelitis" you said were totally new IP's from last gen. Yes there is sequelitis....sequelitis for Uncharted, The Last of Us, Dragon Age, Modern Warfare, Assassin's Creed, The Witcher, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Gears of War, Dead Space....all IP's born the past gen.

So they DID take risk at first. And when they succeeded they followed that road.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

They are the only ones who have the IPs and the audience for that. The same reason why any other game outside of the ones developed by Nintendo don't sell on their consoles (even their own games that move away from what they usually do flop, despite quality).

Look at Tearaway, fantastic game yet it flopped unbelievably hard even for a Vita title. Make that a Mario paper-craft game, release it on a Nintendo platform and watch the sales fly. LBP was surprisingly successful so maybe my theory is wrong.

Nintendo naturally selected their audience over the years.

You wouldn't even need to make it a Mario title, it would've sold way better as a new IP on the Wii, DS, iOS/Android, 3DS, or even WiiU.
The market just isn't there on Vita or any other PlayStation platform for a game like Tearaway to do well.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

You mean the AAA space marine industry ? because, shocker:

EA: AAA studios saw 80% decline this gen

80% of AAA studios lost during the ps3 360 era

I feel for the industry full of people, but not for the creative directions.

If AAA publishers wanted to compete with Nintendo, they'd have to launch a political smear campaign that calls Mario a draft dodger.

 

[Celine]

Because other companies didn't have the luxury to be around when video games started.

Some did, even before Nintendo.
Most of them aren't here anymore in the same form though (RIP Atari, Sega, SNK, Hudson and many more).

One more thing - how many copies did NSMBWiiU sell? I doubt it's as much as its Wii counterpart. Also, MK8 will not sell 35M like MKWii.

How many copies did Monster Hunter 4 sell?

 

[royox]

If AAA publishers wanted to compete with Nintendo, they'd have to launch a political smear campaign that calls Mario a draft dodger.

They don't want to compete against Nintendo.....

 

[Riki]

I feel for the industry full of people, but not for the creative directions.

If AAA publishers wanted to compete with Nintendo, they'd have to launch a political smear campaign that calls Mario a draft dodger.

They tried. It didn't turn out well.

 

[phanphare]

One more thing - how many copies did NSMBWiiU sell? I doubt it's as much as its Wii counterpart. Also, MK8 will not sell 35M like MKWii.

you serious clark?