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Why is Paris so full of pickpockets?

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ConstructMe said:
Clearly im niave, but arent there better and more legal ways for youth to earn money? Cant see why police dont crack down hard on it.
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A lot of that "youth" aren't teenagers/young adults but actual children. Their parents know that police can't keep kids for long so they teach their own children how to steal from tourists, ask for change on the sidewalk, or pretend they're mute to have you donate to some bogus charity, etc. It's disgusting but I don't know what we could do about it.
 
I was in Paris a couple of weeks ago and was shocked at the amount of Romanians in the city. A lot of the Romanians in Paris are associated with minor crimes like pickpocketing, like over here in The Netherlands. I really had to keep an eye on my students as they were easy targets for pickpocketers. Be very alert when people approach you to fill in a petition: usually a ploy to distract you and rob you of your stuff. If you pay attention, the pickpocketers really stand out in places like The Louvre.
 
Sorry for going off topic in my own thread, but why do romanians/bulgarians get such a bad rap in the media of being the source of all the eu's immigration woes?
 
I've travelled to a lot of the capital cities for work and Paris and Rome were the worst for this in my experience. Whenever I travel there for conventions at least one person loses their wallet.
 
Snowmonkey said:
I was in Paris a couple of weeks ago and was shocked at the amount of Romanians in the city. A lot of the Romanians in Paris are associated with minor crimes like pickpocketing, like over here in The Netherlands. I really had to keep an eye on my students as they were easy targets for pickpocketers. Be very alert when people approach you to fill in a petition: usually a ploy to distract you and rob you of your stuff. If you pay attention, the pickpocketers really stand out in places like The Louvre.
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So much racism in this post...
 
Alx said:
They do, but there's not much they can do about that. Assuming they catch a bunch of kids stealing wallets, what then ? They can't be thrown in jail, and they won't tell you who their parents are. They'll be thrown back on the street after a few hours and go back to their usual activity.
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In America we have a little thing called juvie just for these situations.
 
ConstructMe said:
Sorry for going off topic in my own thread, but why do romanians/bulgarians get such a bad rap in the media of being the source of all the eu's immigration woes?
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Large numbers of unskilled/criminal Romanians/Bulgarians moving to western Europe. A Romanian immigrant living in London is ~4-6x more likely to be arrested than a Polish immigrant.

“Crime analysts at Europol estimate that Romanian and Bulgarian gangs are responsible for 90 per cent of all card-skimming crimes across Europe.”
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http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-romanian-crimewave/18207
 
Most big European tourist cities are targeted by pickpocketers. There's even the phenomenon of "tourist crime", where groups from poor countries will travel to tourist hubs for a week or month to seek money. The good news is that there's so many fish for them to angle after in these cities that by taking a few sensible precautions you can greatly lower the chance of being stolen from (why go after a tough target when there's tens of easy catches on the same street?).
 
Jb said:
Never had mine stolen. If you're visiting just do like we do and don't trust anyone who approaches you. Especially if he/she is asking you if you speak english.
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Hence the "Parisians are rude" stigma. :P
But yeah, don't let those stories scare you. All major places have their shares of scams and small crimes, you just have to be aware of it beforehand and be prepared.
There are many cities I really love in Europe (Paris being one of them), and I have stories about scams in almost all of them. And I'm sure it would be the same if I travelled to Asia, America or any other place.
 
When I was in Paris (10 years ago?), a Parisian came up to my family on the train to let us know he could hear a gang talking about how they were going to mug us, and so we should get off the train.
 
There sure are some pickpockets in Paris, never knew the exact reason why though, except maybe because it's one of the biggest tourist area in Europe.

But make no mistakes, they're not literally EVERYWHERE. They mostly operate in crowded subway stops.
 
Never experienced it in Paris, but in Barcelona, everybody but us at our hostel got something stolen. They were stupid though, like leaving their belongings on the beach while skinny dipping at night. lol, americans...
 
Arials said:
Large numbers of unskilled/criminal Romanians/Bulgarians moving to western Europe. A Romanian immigrant living in London is ~4-6x more likely to be arrested than a Polish immigrant.



http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-romanian-crimewave/18207
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And if you look at people who are Romani, it's because they are heavily discriminated against in Romania itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people_in_Romania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Romania

They're basically locked out of society and lack of education is rampant. This leads to very few legal opportunities in Romania itself leading to a form of mass emigration. But because they obviously can't compete for legal jobs in other European countries either - where they're also discriminated against, mind you - many turn to panhandling or petty crime.

The situation here in Sweden has become epidemic at this point. Not so much pick-pocketing but a massive rush of panhandlers. Up until the financial crisis it wasn't exceptionally noticeable but lately it's gotten almost farcical. It's difficult to find a grocery store in Sweden at this point that doesn't have a semi-permanent panhandler installed at the front door. I'm originally from a small town of some 10,000 people in the middle of nowhere in the Swedish forests. It has two grocery stores. Both have had permanent panhandlers since about a year and a half ago. Some of this is probable because Sweden has very liberal laws regarding panhandling: as long as you stick to public areas (which includes the immediate outside of stores) you're good to go and neither the public or the police are allowed to do anything to you except politely ask you to leave.

The public opinion is split over this. It's very much a part of the Swedish mentality to be accepting of poor people but a lot of people are growing tired of getting pestered for money every time they go out to buy a loaf of bread. Especially since panhandling was close to non-existent in Sweden up until very recently. There have even been a few incidents of vigilantism where panhandlers have had buckets of ice-water poured over them (in near-zero temperatures, mind you, which classifies as assault) and some have been chased out of smaller towns by veritable posses. Still, it's unclear if there will be any legislation against panhandling, as was recently introduced in Norway. The political climate simply doesn't allow it.

I should also point out that Sweden doesn't exactly have a rosy past regarding our treatment of Romani. They were classified as "travelers" and were habitually harassed by police until reasonably recently, not to mention targets of social services who didn't hesitate to take away their children for "reeducation". They were also targets for the darkest of Swedish past - the Eugenics movement - which led to many being institutionalized and sterilized by force, completely lawfully, until the law was finally repealed. In 1975.

So my point is basically that while Romani are indeed greatly over-represented in panhandling and petty crime it would be very wrong to ignore that the hideous discrimination they faced and continue to face both in Romania and the rest of Europe is playing a huge role in keeping them that way.
 
Sounds less like a pickpocket problem and more like an idiotic tourist problem. I saw a movie where this girl wore a contraption around her midsection that held all her valuables in a pouch. If I ever go to Europe, I'll be bringing me one of those no doubt.
 
I've been living in Paris for about 4 years now, and never had anything pickpocketed. You just need to have common sense and be aware of your surroundings (and yeah, don't fall for gypsy scams).

It's a gorgeous city, an awesome place to visit, but yeah, people here kinda suck.
 
ConradCervantes said:
Sounds less like a pickpocket problem and more like an idiotic tourist problem. I saw a movie where this girl wore a contraption around her midsection that held all her valuables in a pouch. If I ever go to Europe, I'll be bringing me one of those no doubt.
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Yeah, just be a little bit smart and you avoid 95% of the problems. Don't carry your wallet in your back pocket. When sitting, don't just leave your bag beside your chair (put your foot through it or something). Don't carry extra credit cards and stuff you don't need in case things get stolen.

You'll get scammed or robbed everywhere you'll go if you don't watch out at least a little bit.
 
neorej said:
If you get out of Naples and all you got was pickpocketed, you're lucky. Or so I'm told.
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I actually wasn't pickpocketed, but just getting out of the central station without being scammed was incredibly difficult. Con men everywhere, from hand readers to people trying to sell ya a brand new phone for 50 euros to unauthorised taxi drivers
 
Evo X said:
I went to Paris, Barcelona, and Rome earlier this year and had no issues with pick pockets. According to statistics, I should have gone bankrupt by the end of the trip. Common sense goes a long way when it comes to things like this.
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Same I've both lived in Rome and gone there as tourist multiple times and I'm either really lucky or considered a hard target. Hope it's the last one because that means I'm doing something right.

But I had friends there who was almost pick pocketed on three occasions during the time I lived there and on another occasion some of the people I traveled with told me they could feel people checking out their pockets on a packed bus.
 
leng jai said:
Most people love Paris until they actually go there. It's really not what it's cracked up to be from what you see on TV. You're much better off going to some smaller more down to earth places around France.
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Opposite for me.

Love love love Paris after visiting.
 
Nivash said:
And if you look at people who are Romani, it's because they are heavily discriminated against in Romania itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people_in_Romania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Romania

They're basically locked out of society and lack of education is rampant. This leads to very few legal opportunities in Romania itself leading to a form of mass emigration. But because they obviously can't compete for legal jobs in other European countries either - where they're also discriminated against, mind you - many turn to panhandling or petty crime.

The situation here in Sweden has become epidemic at this point. Not so much pick-pocketing but a massive rush of panhandlers. Up until the financial crisis it wasn't exceptionally noticeable but lately it's gotten almost farcical. It's difficult to find a grocery store in Sweden at this point that doesn't have a semi-permanent panhandler installed at the front door. I'm originally from a small town of some 10,000 people in the middle of nowhere in the Swedish forests. It has two grocery stores. Both have had permanent panhandlers since about a year and a half ago. Some of this is probable because Sweden has very liberal laws regarding panhandling: as long as you stick to public areas (which includes the immediate outside of stores) you're good to go and neither the public or the police are allowed to do anything to you except politely ask you to leave.

The public opinion is split over this. It's very much a part of the Swedish mentality to be accepting of poor people but a lot of people are growing tired of getting pestered for money every time they go out to buy a loaf of bread. Especially since panhandling was close to non-existent in Sweden up until very recently. There have even been a few incidents of vigilantism where panhandlers have had buckets of ice-water poured over them (in near-zero temperatures, mind you, which classifies as assault) and some have been chased out of smaller towns by veritable posses. Still, it's unclear if there will be any legislation against panhandling, as was recently introduced in Norway. The political climate simply doesn't allow it.

I should also point out that Sweden doesn't exactly have a rosy past regarding our treatment of Romani. They were classified as "travelers" and were habitually harassed by police until reasonably recently, not to mention targets of social services who didn't hesitate to take away their children for "reeducation". They were also targets for the darkest of Swedish past - the Eugenics movement - which led to many being institutionalized and sterilized by force, completely lawfully, until the law was finally repealed. In 1975.

So my point is basically that while Romani are indeed greatly over-represented in panhandling and petty crime it would be very wrong to ignore that the hideous discrimination they faced and continue to face both in Romania and the rest of Europe is playing a huge role in keeping them that way.
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It always feels very diet racism whenever euros start talking about the Romani. "But he isnt wrong" is a very common response. Reminds me of Americans and poor blacks and hispanics.
 
Joni said:
Lots of tourists.
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Yeah and the attractions all have tourists standing close in lines bumping each other. It's a perfect storm really. The line to the top of the Eiffel Tower was ridiculous.

We got scammed a couple times too. Only for 5 euro each as we figured out the scam half way through.
 
Nivash said:
And if you look at people who are Romani, it's because they are heavily discriminated against in Romania itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people_in_Romania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Romania
Click to expand...

HK-47 said:
It always feels very diet racism whenever euros start talking about the Romani. "But he isnt wrong" is a very common response. Reminds me of Americans and poor blacks and hispanics.
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The article talks about Romanians, so everyone from the country Romania, and not just Roma right? Big difference there.

And yes, people from poorer countries are over represented in crime statistics. That's nothing new. I remember about ten years ago everyone was complaining about Polish people stealing stuff all the time and that went away when the country started doing better. Now it is Romanians or Bulgarians.
 
Every city has pick pockets. Don't make yourself a target and you are fine. It's really not hard. Don't carry around a big bag on your back hanging open. Don't leave shit sticking out of your back pockets. Don't let people crowd around you. Ignore people who come up to you asking you for stuff.
 
Not to mention that with economies going cashless, tourists are probably one of the few people more likely to carry cash, and large amounts.

Stealing people's credit cards can be lucrative but why bother going through the difficulty and possible repercussions in person when you can do it via the Internet?
 
Kurita said:
He's not really wrong though.
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If he said this would you find that acceptable?

Snowmonkey said:
I was in New York a couple of weeks ago and was shocked at the amount of Blacks in the city. A lot of the blacks in New york are associated with crimes like mugging, like over here in Chicago. I really had to keep an eye on my students as they were easy targets for muggers. Be very alert when people approach you to fill in a petition: usually a ploy to distract you and rob you of your stuff. If you pay attention, the muggers really stand out in places like Times Square.
Click to expand...
 
Samowski said:
If that was true, why not? The difference is, in the case of blacks it's not. And black is a race.
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So basically your saying that its okay to generalize an entire group of people? How about you learn to judge people individually instead of based on their ethnicity?

EDIT: Also race isn't the only way you can discriminate against someone. You can still be prejudice against someone for their class, religion and in this case ethnicity.
 
freeofgreed said:
So basically your saying that its okay to generalize an entire group of people? How about you learn to judge people individually instead of based on their ethnicity?
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Nope, I'm saying he's not wrong. This has nothing to do with people generalizing about black people in the US.
 
Hollywood Duo said:
Every city has pick pockets. Don't make yourself a target and you are fine. It's really not hard. Don't carry around a big bag on your back hanging open. Don't leave shit sticking out of your back pockets. Don't let people crowd around you. Ignore people who come up to you asking you for stuff.
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This. Applies to major tourist spots in the US as well.
 
Samowski said:
Nope, I'm saying he's not wrong. This has nothing to do with people generalizing about black people in the US.
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Yes it does. You've failed to explain how the 2 cases are different. In both cases you've got people judging an entire group of people based off of stereotypes.
 
freeofgreed said:
Yes it does. You've failed to explain how the 2 cases are different. In both cases you've got people judging an entire group of people based off of stereotypes.
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The guy you quoted went to Paris, and i've lived there all my life. I fail to see where you heard it was a "stereotype".

What the guy said was that a lot of the romanians you see in Paris are involved in little crimes, which is true, as it is in a lot of European cities. He didn't say they were all inherently bad. There are reasons such as discrimination in Romania and poverty that caused it, but the end result is the same: roma criminality is a known and very big issue in Europe. Again, that has nothing to do with American racism.
 
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