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[cormack12]

Just platinumed Jedi Fallen Order and while overall it's a solid game, there were some instances where jank and poor design got in the way. And it led to me thinking about getting stunlocked in different games. There is nothing more frustrating and at times, it felt like Dark Souls 2 at some points, so yeah stunlocking is s shitty mechanic and it baffles me how it still makes it into games.

The art of stunning an opponent is to immobilize them in order to replenish stamina/mana/health or for crowd control when in a many to one encounter

Stunlocking in particular is a manipulation of the system where you can stack stuns. This basically means reapply the stun before the current one has expired, leaving the opponent 'locked'. Another reason for stunlocking is not giving a way to break the stun (either ability or consumable item based). There are byproducts of stunlocking that come via poor interrupt mechanics as well, usually when facing down several mobs/enemies. If their attack precendence is not managed and your block/interrupt is not quick enough then as an enemy finishes an attack, another one lands forcing you to be locked into a neverending stagger.

Developers can manage stunlocking in a number of different ways. The first and easiest is via resistances (either attribute based, ability based or item/trinket based). You can manage it via the game mechanics in that the time to be stunned is managed by a different mechanic. Usualyl the most common is stamina. The player is stunned, but the opponent damage becomes turn based in that they can only wail on you until the gauge is depleted. The opponent comes out of stunlock with full stamina, so it's a bit risk/reward. Then there is range push - so you can land an attack on a stunned player but the ipact pushes you (the attacker) back and out of range. So when the player leaves the stun debuff they have time to roll away/evade. Stun can also take them out the game - as in, it drops them to the floor and makes them unhittable until the recovery period has expired. This is purely an effective crowd control mechanism.

This is very cheap and really frustrating but when it's also coupled with a very deliberate animation system then it becomes exacerbated to the point of really taking away from the experience.

I'm not sure if infinite 'juggling' counts as stunlocking but I'm guessing so?

It's an issue that has plagued games like Warframe, Dark Souls, Witcher 3, Anthem, Conan, Dead Cells and Fallen Order. Why is it still a thing - especially in PvP. It's just pure cheapness

 

[Kagey K]

I have to say while also playing Jedi Order that getting knocked down fucking hurts if they threw a thermal at that spot and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Stunlocking usually only becomes an issue if the developer poorly balances the invulnerability frames that the character receives after being hit. But it has been around since the days of Mega Man and Ghouls n Ghosts. I do like using the technique against enemies (if the game allows it) because it's usually pretty abusable.

 

[Virex]

It's not a hard platinum at all.

 

[Spukc]

tekken 7 is based around stunlocking

 

[Elektro Demon]

I liked stunlocking in shooters. Old school ones. The best things are created by accident.
Bunny hopping was created by accident, stunlocking as well. And nobody is forcing people to use it.

 

[cormack12]

tekken 7 is based around stunlocking

Is that not frustrating? I don't really play fighting games so have no idea

 

[Spukc]

Is that not frustrating? I don't really play fighting games so have no idea

not really tbh.
i find souls like games only annoying if you have to run back 8 min to learn again.

 

[xool]

Just platinumed Jedi Fallen Order and while overall it's a solid game, there were some instances where jank and poor design got in the way. And it led to me thinking about getting stunlocked in different games. There is nothing more frustrating and at times, it felt like Dark Souls 2 at some points, so yeah stunlocking is s shitty mechanic and it baffles me how it still makes it into games.

The art of stunning an opponent is to immobilize them in order to replenish stamina/mana/health or for crowd control when in a many to one encounter

Stunlocking in particular is a manipulation of the system where you can either stack stuns. This basically means reapply the stun before the current one has expired, leaving the opponent 'locked'. Another reason for stunlocking is not giving a way to break the stun (either ability or consumable item based). There are byproducts of stunlocking that come via poor interrupt mechanics as well, usually when facing down several mobs/enemies. If their attack precendence is not managed and your block/interrupt is not quick enough then as an enemy finishes an attack, another one lands forcing you to be locked into a neverending stagger.

Developers can manage stunlocking in a number of different ways. The first and easiest is via resistances (either attribute based, ability based or item/trinket based). You can manage it via the game mechanics in that the time to be stunned is managed by a different mechanic. Usualyl the most common is stamina. The player is stunned, but the opponent damage becomes turn based in that they can only wail on you until the gauge is depleted. The opponent comes out of stunlock with full stamina, so it's a bit risk/reward. Then there is range push - so you can land an attack on a stunned player but the ipact pushes you (the attacker) back and out of range. So when the player leaves the stun debuff they have time to roll away/evade. Stun can also take them out the game - as in, it drops them to the floor and makes them unhittable until the recovery period has expired. This is purely an effective crowd control mechanism.

This is very cheap and really frustrating but when it's also coupled with a very deliberate animation system then it becomes exacerbated to the point of really taking away from the experience.

I'm not sure if infinite 'juggling' counts as stunlocking but I'm guessing so?

It's an issue that has plagued games like Warframe, Dark Souls, Witcher 3, Anthem, Conan, Dead Cells and Fallen Order. Why is it still a thing - especially in PvP. It's just pure cheapness

So you sort of answered your own question.

Another option is to give temporary "hyper stagger armor" after/during stun recovery to prevent stunlocking.

The other answer is people like stunlocking mechanisms. Usually when they are doing the stunning. Often player and enemies will use the same under the hood mechanisms..

The other questions is why is becoming OP still a thing in games ..

 

[LazyParrot]

Is that not frustrating? I don't really play fighting games so have no idea

Pretty much all fighting games are based around keeping your opponents in a stunned state that guarantees your next hit will land. That's what combos are.

 

[The3DGameArtist]

On a high-level I believe it's like a direction call. People like stunlocking enemies it feels good, and then the high-level direction decision would be, would you have the player and the enemy live by the same rules? It gets wonkier as soon as you enter the PvP-space as well because PvE and PvP rarely go well hand in hand.

Being fighting game player myself, landing a hit during neutral should reward you with something. Which is why footsies is super important in Street Fighter right, measuring distances and timing. Its generally called hit-confirm in fighting games as well, you hit-confirm and it leads into a combo. Then generally you have other rules applied that hinder players from doing infinite combos (though those exists as well XD)

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

Play some DOTA 2.

Your team never pick stuns and the enemy picks all the stuns. Rage. Lose game. Rinse and repeat.

 

[boutrosinit]

Stun locking is fine if it's well messaged to the player. It's a tool, but when the visibility and communication is poor, it feels like an unfair and lazy cheat on the developer's part.

Usually the math of the player experience I've seen :
If player thinks it's reasonably their own choices that caused their loss = "I need to improve or learn more"
If player thinks the game is cheating / unfair / poorly designed = "fuck this game"

 

[MoreJRPG]

Play some DOTA 2.

Your team never pick stuns and the enemy picks all the stuns. Rage. Lose game. Rinse and repeat.

I never played DOTA but I played League back when it wasn't festering the way it is now and that was the worst.

 

[zenspider]

Stunlocking usually involves some level of timing so it’s still a game mechanic, and it’s generally tied to (or a result of) animation systems and ‘game-feel’; it’s “still a thing” because it’s videogamey.

 

[Enjay]

I feel so torn.... if it wasn't for stunlocking I wouldn't have been able to finish metal gear rising's vr missions.

 

[Handel]

It's still a thing as it's a very satisfying reward to good play when implemented well. In single player games it also works as a simple to understand means by which weaker players can make it through certain games/sections.

 

[Nixonomics]

The recent game Blasphemous has a final boss that has an attack with more active frames than you had recovery frames. And there is no period of invulnerability after getting knocked down. So if he catches you with that attack there's nothing you can do to get out of it. The attack will knock you down and then persist on your body as you got up. Despite liking the game overall I found that one aspect pretty frustrating.

However I love rocking strength builds in Dark Souls for the constant stuns locks.

I think if can be a good mechanic If implemented well. It can be a lot of fun to abuse as the player. But also can be infuriating to have done to you if not balanced.

 

[LazyParrot]

The recent game Blasphemous has a final boss that has an attack with more active frames than you had recovery frames. And there is no period of invulnerability after getting knocked down. So if he catches you with that attack there's nothing you can do to get out of it.

That's what annoyed me about the game as well. In a lot of the boss fights healing is basically pointless, since doing so will almost always make you eat an attack that takes off more health than you gained. Crisanta was especially bad in that regard. Only way around it is that one item that makes you invincible while you heal, which is so OP that it more or less trivializes the game.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Divinity OS 2 on PC has this. If you play on the hardest difficulty, the enemy AI will stun you, knock you down, freeze you, petrify you etc etc the second you become vulnerable to it (which is most of the time on the hardest setting)

As soon as it start, you're better off loading you game.

On the flip side, playing Streets of Rage 2 as Axl, allows you to stun lock every enemy in the game except bosses. Playing as Max and you can stunlock most bosses if times right. A one-move KO on an enemy boss is insanely satisfying.

 

[Spaceman292]

Is that not frustrating? I don't really play fighting games so have no idea

Every action video game is based around stun locking. What do you think a combo is?

 

[Sygma]

Stunlocking usually involves outplaying / outsmarting somebody. I don't understand why you should have a chance at any mistake you'd do

It's an issue that has plagued games like Warframe, Dark Souls, Witcher 3, Anthem, Conan,

Conan ?

like, Age of Conan ?

 

[Silent Duck]

Stunlocking usually involves outplaying / outsmarting somebody. I don't understand why you should have a chance at any mistake you'd do



Conan ?

like, Age of Conan ?

Ahhh... Conan. Always reminds me of this.

 

[InfiniteUnrest]

I don't know about DS2 or DS3, but IIRC in DS you just abuse the animation mechanics. Certain animations have higher priority than the stun/stagger animation, weapon switching being what you use to break stun/stagger IIRC.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

This rolled into my feed today and I thought it was fitting: