PreyingShark
Member
I've noticed that non-American "pro gamers" tend to be pretty healthy so I don't believe in the "WE HAVE A MORE BALANCED LIFESTYLE!!11!1!" argument at all.
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Why is the US so bad at video games?
- Thread starter Opiate
- Start date
Goldenmoney
Member
I wouldn't say the U.S. is great, but to say they're the worst seems kind of harsh. I would need to see some evidence to back up that claim.
Beer Monkey
Member
Speaking for myself personally, I have a life.
DiscoJer
Member
I don't know about speed runs (since I pay no attention to that), but for old arcade games, most of the hi scores are owned by Americans, AFAIK.
Twin Galaxies page seems to be missing, this is the best I could find:
http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/wr/true/index.htm
I think the thing with competitive gaming is that most people in the US don't even know it exists, thus the money really isn't there, like it is in other countries.
Same reason Europe doesn't produce many professional baseball players, while it exists on some level in some countries, it's mostly not a thing.
Counter Strike offers so much more depth and skill based gameplay than a Halo or Call of Duty.
Americans dominated Unreal Tournament and Quake 3
You do realize that in the context of the discussion, your personal opinion of CS is largely irrelevant, right? The game is still popular competitively because enough people around the world find it still compelling. Hence, the game comes up when discussing who's good at what.
Squirrel Killer
Member
What are you talkin' 'bout? We have to put in our B-team collegiate players to give the rest of world a chance.
that's actually a REALLY good argument
RibbedHero
Member
What FPS has better multiplayer than CS?
CS is the king, and will likely remain the king for year to come.
You dont like Counterstrike, we get it. Its not really relevant to the thread, though.
Sure it is. I know for a fact I'm not alone in my opinion, it's quite common actually. A lot of people won't play FPS like counterstrike here. Which would explain why we're not good at these games.
Any battlefield game. Any of them are better.
That doesn't make it more fun, which means it doesn't make it a better game. Sorry.
RibbedHero
Member
Yet you have several thousand posts on a video game forum!?!?!?
If professional gamers don't have lives, then neither do you it would seem.
soulassssns
Banned
Because they are games and ultimately we do not take them seriously (on a competetive stand point)?
OP did you collect stats to prove what you are stating?
OP did you collect stats to prove what you are stating?
It's probably because the US has a larger casual audience than the rest of the world. Here being a hardcore gamer is still looked down upon by many, and the 'cool' kids only game every so often.
So because the audience is more casual, the games are directed towards them and the community reflects them more.
So because the audience is more casual, the games are directed towards them and the community reflects them more.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
Unless competitive gaming hits big time like in South Korea then not enough people will pay attention to it. There is more money in competitive Football, Basketball and Baseball than competitive gaming. Until this type of sport becomes more popular, the competitive scene in games will be much like the USA in soccer.
What will probably be needed is more variety in the scene instead of just one game. Having it where the focus in tournaments is on one game alone, fragments the competitive scene. What needs to be done is make more variety. What is needed is to boost popularity in the USA instead of gaming as something to "waste time" on.
Maybe something like this?
Teams:
-1 Captain/Coach and 5 players and maybe a few extras for swapping out or back up purposes
-All teams are required to compete in all of the chosen games. So no DOTA 2 , Starcraft or COD specific teams. This will force the teams to have a wide range of skill with each player instead of only being good at one game. So if you are only good at Starcraft then you will not be as useful as someone who is good at Starcraft and COD.
Games(Re-voting of games every 2 years):
-All of the games must be played on PC. Why? So there will be less fragmentation. Having console exclusive titles which can only be played on one system is limiting the audience that can relate to the game.
-1 RTS
-1 MOBA style game
-1 Fighter
-1 FPS
-No games that require purchasing of guns, boosts, attacks, or characters. Doing this further reduces fragmentation because what if you do not know how this character, or gun should be played because you never payed money for it? Having this rule would make it more accessible for all players to know how things should be played.
Colleges would also have to get in on this because they play a big part in the USA when it comes to the popularity of sports.
Just my two cents.
What will probably be needed is more variety in the scene instead of just one game. Having it where the focus in tournaments is on one game alone, fragments the competitive scene. What needs to be done is make more variety. What is needed is to boost popularity in the USA instead of gaming as something to "waste time" on.
Maybe something like this?
Teams:
-1 Captain/Coach and 5 players and maybe a few extras for swapping out or back up purposes
-All teams are required to compete in all of the chosen games. So no DOTA 2 , Starcraft or COD specific teams. This will force the teams to have a wide range of skill with each player instead of only being good at one game. So if you are only good at Starcraft then you will not be as useful as someone who is good at Starcraft and COD.
Games(Re-voting of games every 2 years):
-All of the games must be played on PC. Why? So there will be less fragmentation. Having console exclusive titles which can only be played on one system is limiting the audience that can relate to the game.
-1 RTS
-1 MOBA style game
-1 Fighter
-1 FPS
-No games that require purchasing of guns, boosts, attacks, or characters. Doing this further reduces fragmentation because what if you do not know how this character, or gun should be played because you never payed money for it? Having this rule would make it more accessible for all players to know how things should be played.
Colleges would also have to get in on this because they play a big part in the USA when it comes to the popularity of sports.
Just my two cents.
No. Fuck no. Not in a competitve sense.
You can say BF games are more fun (I like them a lot myself) but they are definielty a whole lot worse in competition.
Vespasianus
Banned
Agreed. That said, the people who go on incessantly about "kings" of genres are people who simply can't get over the fact that their opinion is in fact not universal.
In other words, they simply can't reconcile the other fact that people don't like the same things they like.
Is it? I don't think that people who pursue e-sports careers and people who pursue professional sport careers are the same kind. Having much of one doesn't mean you will have less of the other.
What I meant is that a modern game simply doesn't offer that much depth (which means they'd make bad e-sport games) So that's the reason why they still play an old game. Also complexity can be a lot of fun for some people while it's boring for others (i.e. Chess)
Vespasianus
Banned
Posting on a videogame forum doesn't take much time, maybe a half hour a day.
If you're a "professional gamer" and you're practicing half an hour a day, you're a terrible pro gamer who has probably never made a cent from gaming in his life and never will.
If I was to dedicate my life to becoming the best of something, it would have to be something I enjoy (no competitive game at this moment is that), and also something that would pay well.
Who would want to be the best Call of Duty "pro gamer" in the world maybe making 100k for 3 years before he becomes a nobody again, vs being a top NBA or NHL player making millions?
Opiate wrongfully assumes that we want to be "competitive gamers" in the first place.
I might as well ask Opiate why he isn't an Olypmic caliber gymnast. Are you even trying Opiate? Do you just want to "suck" at life like we Americans and Canadians "suck" at videogames?
Didn't Phelps play a fuckton of CoD? haha
PreyingShark
Member
Also, your typical Korean or Japanese high schooler who's really good at fighting games? They usually have lives. In fact, they spend a significant amount of time interacting with other human beings.
They just happen to spend that time in an arcade.
Oh, the American players who do pursue E-sports aren't as good as their European/Asian counterparts because they don't want to be good.
Okay.
This.
As stated, I'm trying to head off the possible, "well, we may stink at games, but Koreans are the true losers!!!" argument.
Which I have explicitly discussed.
Vespasianus
Banned
You seem to be more about trying to affirm your own suspicions than to find new viable explanations.
The elephant in the room is "we have different priorities", but you seem set on ignoring that. Americans apparently care far more about being a basketball or baseball player than Koreans and Asians do.
Is one of them right or wrong? Of course not. Personally I don't care about basketball, baseball, OR competitive gaming, so I wouldn't want to dedicate my life to any of them.
Why not ask yourself why you're not a pro gamer specifically? Do you just want to suck at games, as your friend put it? Or do you play games for some other reason than to be the number 1 guy at X game in the world?
It's all about money when it comes to our culture, there is rarely any funding behind e-sports like their is for actual sports(besides soccer) . Also you cannot easily find any gaming AAU Equivalence in america like you can for real sports. spatial mismatch is a HUGE problem it's damn near impossible to train outside of your city for a competition unless your parents is 100% behind you as a kid. competitive gaming is damn near looked down upon nowadays it's entirely niche.
This post states my feelings about the topic more eloquently
Except for being Canadian
The single biggest reason that I quit online multiplayer, aside from the obvious racist/sexist 12-year-olds.
Well it would be interesting to know if once had to decide between going to a swimming tournament or going to a call of duty tournament
I'm sure Europe and Asia have or had the same problems.
From my point of view is it still pretty niche over here
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I think it'd be interesting to compare the types of games developed in different regions and how they compare to these rankings as well.
Like in the US the most popular and best selling games produced in the US are the highly automated/restrictive single player narrative based games.
While in japan there's a market for more hardcore games like frame based fighting games and 8 button rhythm games. and you have some insanely punishing role playing games coming out of Germany and Russia.
I think there's an interesting correlation there but unfortunately I don't know enough to connect the dots myself.
Like in the US the most popular and best selling games produced in the US are the highly automated/restrictive single player narrative based games.
While in japan there's a market for more hardcore games like frame based fighting games and 8 button rhythm games. and you have some insanely punishing role playing games coming out of Germany and Russia.
I think there's an interesting correlation there but unfortunately I don't know enough to connect the dots myself.
Allan Holdsworth
Member
Where is packattack from? He has some pretty insane records. I remember him from the DK Jungle Beat days, and recently when I played Fractured Soul I noticed he was at the top of the leaderboards in most levels.
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/packattack04082/
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/packattack04082/
SmellyHands
Member
Corn.
Bobs Big Boy
Member
We're better at our genres.
But ultimately, there's no concern for being good. Nobody I know cares how good they are, except for on videogames that aren't inherently skill-based, oddly.
But ultimately, there's no concern for being good. Nobody I know cares how good they are, except for on videogames that aren't inherently skill-based, oddly.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I've always viewed it as a culture thing. A lack of motivation to do better was always one of those things prominent growing up among my generation. It's also something I see frequently in online games; a big problem with a lot of WoW raiding guilds was players simply didn't want to better themselves. They were okay with subpar performance, even at the expense of their teammate's time.
I think the gaming market in the US is spread more thin than most markets. PC games, console games, handheld games, and mobile games are all big markets here.
Japan rarely plays PC games. Korea rarely plays console games. China rarely plays anything that isn't F2P or MMO.
Plus the biggest game in the US for online multiplayer is Call of Duty, which really isn't seen as a competitive game as much as other games.
Japan rarely plays PC games. Korea rarely plays console games. China rarely plays anything that isn't F2P or MMO.
Plus the biggest game in the US for online multiplayer is Call of Duty, which really isn't seen as a competitive game as much as other games.
Bobs Big Boy
Member
This is a good point. Maybe we'd need to be better if our genres lent themselves more to skill.
That only they play for the most part.
There are lots of gamers who do, in the US and Canada. Just as there are lots of Koreans who don't.
This would make a much better argument if we weren't talking on large scales. There is a good reason why a single individual might not want to be a gymnast; there is less reason why an entire country (especially a very large one) would not want to be.
Unless there was no investment in gymnastics (or games). But there is.
The US has a far greater population of gamers than other regions but at the same time they compete in more genres. Although you may argue that it is not a good excuse in certain genres where they have better infrastructures, higher salaries, bigger pool of players and yet still manage to underperform consistently on LAN.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I think part of the answer to your question lies in that argument though.
There just seems to be this defeatist mentality in the US that has combined with the thought that "well games don't matter so whatever"