• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Why is weapon degradation/breaking a thing in games?

That is really hilarious because I make new characters all the time. I reckon I know the game better than almost anyone on GAF.

I get it. You are the God of Dark Souls 2. I will come watch your Twitch channel sometime if it will make you feel better.

Understand that 99.99% of players are not you. They are not going to pick up the controller and make a new character for the first time, and within an hour or two find themselves saying, "Fuck me, what am I going to do with all these materials? I'm out of weapon to get to +15!" I'm not going to bother asking you to empathize with the new player experience at this point, but at least try to comprehend that they do have a different experience than yours.
 
OK, at least in Fire Emblem I think it can be done away with, I've been playing Fates Conquest on 3-Star difficulty and it's a godsend to be able to focus more on tactical approaches rather than on what weapon I don't want to break.
 
I really dislike this mechanic in games. I understand how it can be used in some games, but in others, I feel that it just adds unnecessary management to the game. For example, in Blade and Soul, it's pretty annoying to have to sharpen your weapon every now and then at a campfire. It's not expensive or anything, but it doesn't really add to the experience. It's just another number to keep track of and another thing you have to do. By contrast, I can see how it might play an integral role in a game like Monster Hunter.
 
I agree. I dislike durability (and carry weight). I understand why it's there though, in an MMO it's designed to be a money sink to take money out of the in game economy and in single player stuff it's there to encourage weapon/armour variety. So when your main sword is getting low you switch it up.

BUT it becomes a pointless mechanic when you can repair that stuff easily and all it takes is time and a small amount of money.

In something like Fire Emblem I understand it's there for strategy, you have x amount of attacks with y weapon so you need to make them count. It's even more of a numbers game than other games with durability because it plays in the moment to moment strategy rather than being something you ignore until you've cleared this area and then repair before going onto the next.

That said I still don't like it and I would prefer the game without it but that is just me being a casual noob. I even restarted Awakening on baby mode because I got to a point where I was having a very hard time beating a chapter without losing at least one person.
 
I get it. You are the God of Dark Souls 2. I will come watch your Twitch channel sometime if it will make you feel better.
Petty sarcasm doesn't help your argument at all.

I'm not a god of anything. You're the one who sneered at me, saying I probably don't play the game often enough to know what I'm talking about. I'm replying that this is factually wrong.

Understand that 99.99% of players are not you. They are not going to pick up the controller and make a new character for the first time, and within an hour or two find themselves saying, "Fuck me, what am I going to do with all these materials? I'm out of weapon to get to +15!" I'm not going to bother asking you to empathize with the new player experience at this point, but at least try to comprehend that they do have a different experience than yours.
First of all, weapons go to +10 in this game, not +15. Second, you don't need a +10 weapon for the whole game. You can manage with +6 or so weapons for a good while, well until you are swimming in chunks and slabs.
My first character used katanas, which have low durability. And yet I still managed to carry a bunch of them and eventually dual wield two different pairs that I was swapping out no problem.
It's all about managing your resources correctly. The game is not unbalanced in that regard.
 
It was especially bad in Dark Cloud. In that game breaking a weapon was DEATH, a much worse death than your character getting KO'd, which only results in getting kicked out of the dungeon with very little loss. Your weapon was your life, you poured all the real exp and gems and levels into that, and then it could all vanish if you weren't careful, forget it, quit and relead your save.
 
Petty sarcasm doesn't help your argument at all.

I'm not a god of anything. You're the one who sneered at me, saying I probably don't play the game often enough to know what I'm talking about. I'm replying that this is factually wrong.

That is the exact opposite of what I said. I'm done even trying to communicate with you.
 
Weapon degradation is a trash mechanic. Just frustrating obstructive garbage that never, ever improves gameplay. Not even once. It should go away forever.
 
Babbies everywhere.

Degradation exists so that one can take advantage of it.

3rr3prG.jpg

I don't mind degradation.

To a point, this shit was infuriating though.
 
That is the exact opposite of what I said. I'm done even trying to communicate with you.
Huh? You said "try to remember what it was like the first playthrough" (in quite the condescending way) to suggest I didn't know what I was talking about. I explained that I do remember because I make new characters all the time. Chillax.
 
Depends on the game. In System Shock for example it was there to keep the tension as high as possible. Nothing is worse than a shotgun jamming in the middle of a heavy firefight. Not everyone liked it but I found it fits good to the overall experience in SS. It also prevent you from getting very powerful weapons right from the beginning cuz you need to repair the stronger ones first.

Edit: I think it was only SS2 that had weapon degradation? Can't remember if the first one had it.
 
It's great if games do it right. Stalker for example has degradation, it affects accuracy, bullet drop, jamming, etc. It makes sense given the location and situation of the area, finding some good weapon early doesn't mean you can use it forever that's why you also need to be on the lookout for new guns. You could go and find a good weapon in good condition early but that might not mean you'll have some good weapons later on in the game necessarily. The degradation mechanic isn't fast but the emphasis is on that most weapons are not perfect and degraded at certain extents.

It means you can't just find one good weapon and use it the whole game, you never get to use other weapons and all you do is focus on one type of ammo (and there are many, for certain sizes you also get different piercing types).

The tense atmosphere of stalker + shoot outs means that you don't want a weapon jam to occur, you also don't want to engage in certain fights if other stats on your weapon are not that good. It reiterates your location and situation in The Zone, you are also not a god in the game, you are just one Lone Stalker, the A-Life AI system in the game aids it (especially in CoP) where life goes on without you. This means that all NPCs in the game are "alive" even if you are nowhere near them, they move around, scavenge, and you can hunt and track a NPC if you want. They find weapons of their own from fights they are in or that they find, they will drop the specific weapon they are carrying as well. The items are persistent, when one bandit/stalker/whatever dies, that degraded weapon persists and can be found by another if it's better than they have, that degradation continues to exist and that weapon can swap many hands or never be picked up and maybe you find it by one of them that died with it recently.

Games that incorporate it into tension and the world do it right, the tension and atmosphere in Stalker in insane and you really do not want your weapon to jam at the wrong time. It has never been a bad thing in this game for example and the degradation is not necessarily quick, but you rarely find 100% fixed weapons (they do exist like a lot of special weapons but even random AK-47s). It's more about that all weapons in the game are degraded at certain levels, the degradation isn't that fast though, but not all weapons are perfect. Meaning, you can pick up an AK-47 that is 70% degraded, it won't degrade very quickly like other games, but your chances of finding a 0% degraded perfect weapon is low, you might 2hrs later find a AK-47 that is only 30% degraded, you'll swap it immediately for the better stats since your accuracy, bullet drop, jamming, recoil, etc is way better now even though it's the same type of weapon. So while degradation itself isn't fast, the game doesn't have perfect weapons which makes sense given its setting.

It works well given the atmosphere of a game and its setting, good in games with horror elements.
 
I always thought that it is a good mechanic that is often poorly implemented. Just because you can add it to a game doesn't mean you should.

It is a mere annoyance in TW3. Bloodborne is mildly better given you have gems that can be quite powerful at the cost of durability and such however even then it is barely worth mentioning.

Weapon condition however plays a huge role in Monster Hunter. Your weapon's sharpness is a scale and as it goes down so too does your damage and ability to penetrative tough surfaces. Some of the easy to craft weapons have great sharpness but it diminishes faster. Sharpening takes time and leaves you open. These weapons are still worth using until you make better ones.
Sometimes you pick armor skills that tweaks sharpness or something related to it. It adds a whole extra layer of complexity on weapon and armor choices.
 
It's fine in Dead Island, but terrible in Fallout 3, as the enemies just get spongier with each passing level.

Yeah, prior to playing Dead Island I was worried it would end up being really annoying, but I never had to think about it because resources and workbenches were plentiful.

I think of all the games I've played Dead Island balanced it the best, because it was just present enough that you didn't want to mindlessly spam your weapons, but never so punishing that it became frustrating.

Personally I just wish games would be more realistic about it if they're going to include it.

Like, if I have a piece of rebar, that shouldn't degrade as quickly as a katana.
 
OP you are just thinking of rpgs and i absolutely agree with you, but in games like survival horror weapon degradation is another element of tension so it's good, unless the game let's you carry tons of weapons, in that case it makes no sense.

Imo the despised Silent Hill: Book of Memories, a mix of survival horror and roguelike, got it right.
 
Depends on the game. In System Shock for example it was there to keep the tension as high as possible. Nothing is worse than a shotgun jamming in the middle of a heavy firefight. Not everyone liked it but I found it fits good to the overall experience in SS. It also prevent you from getting very powerful weapons right from the beginning cuz you need to repair the stronger ones first.

Edit: I think it was only SS2 that had weapon degradation? Can't remember if the first one had it.

The original did not.

What makes SS2 different from most other examples is that it's a survival horror game that's based almost entirely around resource management. The degradation rate is maybe too fast, but it isn't out of place like in some other games.
 
Because someone did it like 30 years ago and tricked everyone else into thinking it was a good idea.

It's not.

It's a fucking terrible idea and the exact opposite of fun. All it does is make the game artificially difficult for the first few hours and then at most a general annoyance until the ending credits. There is no gain.
 
It depends on how it's implemented tbh.
I found the "overburdened=can't run" way more annoying,it doesn't add any challenge.
 
It depends on the game, there are good examples:
Dark Souls - you're forced to carry around and upgrade a secondary weapon, in case your first breaks. This means you have to change your play style, or you have to go back to a bonfire and lose progress.
Fire Emblem - you have to choose the correct weapon for the correct enemy, but if you rely on one too much, you will lose your weapon advantage.

Bad examples:
The Witcher 3 - If your weapon breaks, you have to pause and fix it, and make sure you visit a black smith (which can be rare in certain places) before you go on a quest. Not interesting, just busy work.
 
I enjoyed it in Fallout New Vegas. It basically forced you to monitor your weapon because the more degradation the less damage your weapon did. So you kind of had to pick and choose which weapons were most important to you. I thought it added to the atmosphere and tension.
 
I love it in Monster Hunter.

Sharpening takes time, but you learn which attack animations leave the monster open for you to do so. In MH4, other players mounting the creature is a great opportunity to sharpen.

Some weapons lose sharpness quicker than others. Some skills have you sharpening more quickly, or lose sharpness more slowly. One set of weapons (made from seregios) occasionally self-sharpens. Also, there are ranks of degradation, and some weapons have larger amounts of durability per rank- one might lose its highest level quickly but have lots of durability at the one below it, whereas another might have a large amount at the top, making it more economical to keep the latter topped-up than the former.

It's a mechanic worked into every aspect of the game as your choices of armour, weapon, items and even your chosen mark affect how you interact with it, and you have several trade-offs to make rather than one optimum route. Heavy armoured foes might need sharpness skills far more, whereas they might be better replaced with other skills against a different foe. Excellent game design.
 
Eh, SS2 is one that needs an asterisk on it.

When the game first came out, the system was very balanced throughout the game. Unfortunately, it pissed a lot of people off and they patched it out a few months after launch. You can still go into the config files and change it back, though. Works much better as the system no longer seems like a reverse difficulty curve that it is in the version most people play.

They did? Patch notes don't say anything about reducing the default degradation rate, just that you now have the option to reduce it through the config.
 
At some point in the past, someone thought it added 'complexity', and removing it gets cries of 'dumbing down!!!'. It didn't add complexity, it just added annoyance.
 
It makes sense in Dead Rising. Using whatever you can find to defend yourself against the zombie hordes is a huge part of the game.

That game has the worst degradation of all time, it's one of the many reasons I can't stand it. Everything breaks near instantly. Even the skateboards break if you bump into things, for crying out loud.

Absolute garbage.
 
Did anyone play Apotheon? Loved the art style and the metroidvania-ness but damn the weapon degradation seemed harsh. Items disintegrating mid fight leaving you to fight bare handed. I put the game down after experiencing this.
 
I liked it in New Vegas and Fallout 3. These aren't properly maintained guns, they've been in a wasteland for who knows how long. Plus, a random gun off a raider shouldn't be in optimal condition.
 
I hate this shit. I don't think my enjoyment of a game has ever been enhanced by this mechanic. It's just annoying busy work.

I can understand that it is a necessary evil in MMOs to act as a money sink and keep inflation under control.
 
It's great if games do it right. Stalker for example has degradation, it affects accuracy, bullet drop, jamming, etc. It makes sense given the location and situation of the area, finding some good weapon early doesn't mean you can use it forever that's why you also need to be on the lookout for new guns. You could go and find a good weapon in good condition early but that might not mean you'll have some good weapons later on in the game necessarily. The degradation mechanic isn't fast but the emphasis is on that most weapons are not perfect and degraded at certain extents.

It means you can't just find one good weapon and use it the whole game, you never get to use other weapons and all you do is focus on one type of ammo (and there are many, for certain sizes you also get different piercing types).

The tense atmosphere of stalker + shoot outs means that you don't want a weapon jam to occur, you also don't want to engage in certain fights if other stats on your weapon are not that good. It reiterates your location and situation in The Zone, you are also not a god in the game, you are just one Lone Stalker, the A-Life AI system in the game aids it (especially in CoP) where life goes on without you. This means that all NPCs in the game are "alive" even if you are nowhere near them, they move around, scavenge, and you can hunt and track a NPC if you want. They find weapons of their own from fights they are in or that they find, they will drop the specific weapon they are carrying as well. The items are persistent, when one bandit/stalker/whatever dies, that degraded weapon persists and can be found by another if it's better than they have, that degradation continues to exist and that weapon can swap many hands or never be picked up and maybe you find it by one of them that died with it recently.

Games that incorporate it into tension and the world do it right, the tension and atmosphere in Stalker in insane and you really do not want your weapon to jam at the wrong time. It has never been a bad thing in this game for example and the degradation is not necessarily quick, but you rarely find 100% fixed weapons (they do exist like a lot of special weapons but even random AK-47s). It's more about that all weapons in the game are degraded at certain levels, the degradation isn't that fast though, but not all weapons are perfect. Meaning, you can pick up an AK-47 that is 70% degraded, it won't degrade very quickly like other games, but your chances of finding a 0% degraded perfect weapon is low, you might 2hrs later find a AK-47 that is only 30% degraded, you'll swap it immediately for the better stats since your accuracy, bullet drop, jamming, recoil, etc is way better now even though it's the same type of weapon. So while degradation itself isn't fast, the game doesn't have perfect weapons which makes sense given its setting.

It works well given the atmosphere of a game and its setting, good in games with horror elements.

So much this! Stalker does it incredibly good!
 
I liked the way Sakura Samurai handled it

RRYNJKb.jpg


You can use your sword infinite amount of times if you land a successful hit on an enemy. It only breaks when you either keep blocking or hit an enemy that's blocking.
 
Oh boo hoo. The weapons hardly ever broke. Now if this was Dark Souls 2 I could see a reason to bitch and moan about it.

Heh. That's exactly the point he was making. Quite frankly, Dark Souls II is the only game in Soulsborne to make weapon durability mean anything. The one big issue with it was it was broken at 60 FPS on PC for quite some time. I would have liked to see repairs handled differently rather than being automatic upon resting at a bonfire for no cost, as well.

There is one objection to weapon degradation in Dark Souls II that I can understand: when you begin a new playthrough intending to role-play a specific type of character (e.g. a wandering knight) who uses only a specific weapon or set (e.g. only the classic longsword), then the early game can be quite difficult. I tend to be of the completionist sort when playing Souls, that is, I try to defeat every single enemy in an area in one life before tackling the boss, and that can be hard to pull off when you're restricting yourself to one, perhaps two weapons for purposes of role-playing and repair materials are scarce. Then again, the Souls games should not be balanced around self-imposed restrictions anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.
 
I don't see the point of it but as long as the durability of the item itself is high and the cost to repair is low. Only game that was moderately decent in this area was fire emblem.
 
I liked the way Sakura Samurai handled it

RRYNJKb.jpg


You can use your sword infinite amount of times if you land a successful hit on an enemy. It only breaks when you either keep blocking or hit an enemy that's blocking.

That's how Way of The Samurai handles it too. You can even recover some durability automatically if you stop using the weapon when it's about to drop a durability level.
 
Top Bottom