I'm sorry but I thought this was a DQ thread and not a FFIX thread.
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Why isn't the Dragon Quest series popular outside Japan?
- Thread starter ULTROS!
- Start date
I'm sorry but I thought this was a DQ thread and not a FFIX thread.
I'll give you saving (this is something that's much improved in DQ11, btw), but battle speed in every game except 8 can be made really fast via the settings.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Damn. Nice job on capitalizing on that Switch hype.
shawnbuddy
Member
Because V and VI, two of the better games, were not released here for 16 during their original releases. It was popular in the NES era but it didn't catch that Super Nintendo wave and lost momentum. While Square and Final Fantasy were defining the genre for westerners.
clay_ghost
Member
???? Outside of the Ps2 DQ8, the battle for DQ games are really fast ( there is a option to change the battle speed you know) and even this was changed in the 3DS version. Everything else, including menu, are also fast since the SNES era (outside of the Ps2 Western release) especially the handheld games where you can quick save everywhere quickly.
I think most played the NES classics (not remakes which added QOL improvements like not having to select talk from an menu to talk to npcs) and then the Slower Western PS2 DQ8 version and have a misconception of the series being slow.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
How does DQXI fix the saving?
Does DQXI have battle fast forward like DQVIII 3DS?
This makes me wonder, did it sell well because it was a Switch launch release?
clarknova156
Member
This. Lack of games and they got buried among the selection. I wish it wasn't so because it's a quality universe.
texhnolyze
Banned
Honestly, I dislike the combat system where you can't see your characters. That's why I highly prefer the modern ones.
Also, the franchise lacks the things that lots of people like, such as cutscenes, voice acting, cgi, etc. It's just vastly different from your regular modern JRPGs.
Leave FFIX alone.
Also, the franchise lacks the things that lots of people like, such as cutscenes, voice acting, cgi, etc. It's just vastly different from your regular modern JRPGs.
Leave FFIX alone.
It introduces campsites. Not that saving was ever a problem, suspend works anywhere outside of battle and is in I think all of the remakes, and using rura or chimera wing to go to a church hardly costs any mp.
Well, there's auto-save on PS4 for one, but also there's less text and you can go through it instead of being forced to wait for it. It doesn't have fast forward. The 3DS version has a battle speed setting and its fastest setting is pretty snappy. The PS4 version doesn't have a battle speed setting, but it's still fast enough. Way faster than DQ8.
Big brands make use of being big brands but DQ is not just a big brand. The games have very much had their own voice and contributed to, say, story in games, beyond just contributing one of the core templates of console RPG, and are incredibly approachable to a mainstream audience.
The thing is, the mainstream games audience isn't buying JRPG in America or they are buying Pokemon or Final Fantasy. DQ is relegated to being a niche franchise and its sales are incredibly lopsided, so moving numbers like what Persona 5 did looks like an issue with the franchise.
I guess that's how Enix or Nintendo tried to sell the games to americans back then. The game itself it largely the same though.
Zippedpinhead
Member
Three reasons why:
1). No 5 & 6 on SNES hurt nostalgia (5 being arguably the best one ). This hurts because the SNES was a large proportion of current gamers first foray into RPGs. Not being there hurt.
2) Dragon Quest 7 looked terrible. Hate to say it but DQ7 was a beast of a game on PS1, but coming out well after FF7&8 and looked terrible in comparison. I recommended it to everyone in high school, all but one said "I'm not going to play that it looks terrrible"
3). DQ 10 not coming to America. While I do believe this was the right decision commercially and financially, it destroyed the mindshare of what good will players had after DQ9. DQ9 did very well, worldwide (a lot of it thanks to Nintendo). DQ6 remake didn't. But the missing gap in DQ games was 1/2 a huge delay to the dQ7 remake and just plain not having an entry to the main series. 7 remake got a lot of existing fan goodwill, but it's still clunky and isn't the best for new fans. Missing 10 hurt.
1). No 5 & 6 on SNES hurt nostalgia (5 being arguably the best one ). This hurts because the SNES was a large proportion of current gamers first foray into RPGs. Not being there hurt.
2) Dragon Quest 7 looked terrible. Hate to say it but DQ7 was a beast of a game on PS1, but coming out well after FF7&8 and looked terrible in comparison. I recommended it to everyone in high school, all but one said "I'm not going to play that it looks terrrible"
3). DQ 10 not coming to America. While I do believe this was the right decision commercially and financially, it destroyed the mindshare of what good will players had after DQ9. DQ9 did very well, worldwide (a lot of it thanks to Nintendo). DQ6 remake didn't. But the missing gap in DQ games was 1/2 a huge delay to the dQ7 remake and just plain not having an entry to the main series. 7 remake got a lot of existing fan goodwill, but it's still clunky and isn't the best for new fans. Missing 10 hurt.
sotojuan
Member
One thing to consider - when DQVIII came out in the west with orchestral music, great VA, and you know, being a great game, it was 2005. At that time, I believe Western people were tired of old school JRPGs. In a post-FFX world gearing up for the generation of shooters and narrative-driven, movie-like action games and action RPGs, DQVIII probably stuck out like a sore thumb.
This is all my opinion of course, but it's yet another reason. Biggest reasons of course is that the some of the best games in the series never made it here in their original form.
However, I do truly think the DQXI has a chance to make it big in the West.
This is all my opinion of course, but it's yet another reason. Biggest reasons of course is that the some of the best games in the series never made it here in their original form.
However, I do truly think the DQXI has a chance to make it big in the West.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
They didn't release any in america during the time period when JRPGs were mainstream (95-2000 ish). They missed their opportunity.
- JRPG
- Turn Based Combat, much more basic and boring-looking than other JRPG
- Japanese Aesthetics
- Can't tapped into mainstream anime audience
The Dragonball fans typically would prefer action-oriented games over turn-based ones and most people associate Toriyama art with DBZ. Dragon Quest is kinda like the boring-looking cousin from both gameplay and aesthetic perspective.
- Turn Based Combat, much more basic and boring-looking than other JRPG
- Japanese Aesthetics
- Can't tapped into mainstream anime audience
The Dragonball fans typically would prefer action-oriented games over turn-based ones and most people associate Toriyama art with DBZ. Dragon Quest is kinda like the boring-looking cousin from both gameplay and aesthetic perspective.
clay_ghost
Member
It won't sell well if it's not a decent game too but I do agree the timing helps. I am Setsuna performed "worst" than D5 right?
Despite loving JRPGs I was never really into handheld systems and the last Nintendo console I purchased to play games myself prior to the Switch was the SNES. If the games had been released on Sega or Playstation hardware in that time I would have likely purchased all of them but that didn't really happen.
I enjoyed the ones that I did get to play though, including stuff like VIII and Dragon Quest Builders which was one of my favorite games last year ( still really hoping we get a sequel with proper local co-op)
I enjoyed the ones that I did get to play though, including stuff like VIII and Dragon Quest Builders which was one of my favorite games last year ( still really hoping we get a sequel with proper local co-op)
Well besides being a boring game with no marketing, I am Setsuna is also digital only outside of Japan on the Switch.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Honestly, Builders is probably the best and most fun DQ game for me, next to V.
Vital Tundra
Member
They decided Final Fantasy was the better choice. They were right.
Don't burn yourself on that hot take.
I wish Builders had Priests and other character types it missed and that Free-build villagers were more fun but I liked it a lot.
Really want a Builders 2.
If there is one, DQ will sell a lot in RotW, so my post is topic-relevant
.SatelliteOfLove
Member
Lord this thread. lol
"Cartoons ain't for children!" *proceeds to "draw" goofy dragon with a toothcomb*
I guess that's how Enix or Nintendo tried to sell the games to americans back then. The game itself it largely the same though.
"Cartoons ain't for children!" *proceeds to "draw" goofy dragon with a toothcomb*
Squenix didn't give it much of any promotion, either. In comparison, they're doing a lot better with Lost Sphear, despite that also being digital only outside of their online store.
SpiceMelange
Member
The only DQ game with grinding as part of the expected story progression is the very first Dragon Quest. I've never grinded levels at all except post-game.
clay_ghost
Member
My favourite DQ game is 5.
I gave Builders a lot of chances but it's just not for me. I am not too into minecraft like games and can't even complete Builders.
I do like Builders' art style though.
Maybe I will give it another chance if there is a sequel on switch or Vita.
sotojuan
Member
I really don't see how the combat of say, VIII, is boring. Is it because there's no cool summons like in FF or something? Nothing like materia or grid spheres? I can see what you mean with the older games, but VIII's combat is standard at worst. I had no problem with it.
UI I can see, though I like its simplicity. I do think the bag system can be annoying though.
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I mean, the way I see it, does DQ really need to be big in the West? I don't know Square's finances but the series seems to be doing fine with just the JP sales. I mean, more money is always better, but I like that DQ doesn't need to cater to the West or a younger audience and still do fine. It's an enviable position to be!
Vital Tundra
Member
I mean were they not? I like Dragon Quest but it doesn't have what most western fans want from JRPG, and Final Fantasy did. I mean if they tried with DQ like they did FF history may have went a different way but as it stands Final Fantasy was the correct choice considering the ateonamical success of FF in the west.
Pokemon has that 'gotta catch em all' appeal to it that kids just love. DQ is a straight up RPG that does not greatly change mechanics or add monsters between entries.
Plus Pokemon's whole appeal was on the go aspect and DQ lacked Nintendo's aggressive marketing (a big key actually) to cement the series in public consciousness.
You basically say it yourself: we don't know how it would have gone because it only went the way it did.
clay_ghost
Member
SE expect near FF sales for DQ and may decide that localisation effort is not worth it. SE basically gave out of localising the DQ spinoff until builders because of them not meeting sales targets too...
I still want those 3DS Monsters remakes =(
sotojuan
Member
How do FF sales compare to DQ sales in JP?
As for the West, it's a chicken and egg problem - they don't sell well because they don't come here or they don't do an effort in advertising it, they don't localize or make an effort them because they don't sell well.
Square has the manpower and effort - they're still putting out content for FFXV. They just don't want to take risks anymore and DQ in the West has always been a risk (though a safe one).
The series has historically been handled pretty poorly in the west with some exceptions, and the gaps in releases and marketing problems hurt it. I think the fact that there was no real FF7 equivalent for Dragon Quest might be the biggest mark against it.
That being said, even keeping these problems in mind, I don't think the games could have ever been the giants they are in Japan. I don't even really 100% get why Dragon Quest is such a phenomenon in Japan to this day, and I really like the games myself. They don't seem like games that are really so important and universal that everyone plays and loves them to me. They're great games, but I don't see how they could rise above games like the Mario RPGs or SMT to be huge juggernauts in the JRPG space.
That being said, even keeping these problems in mind, I don't think the games could have ever been the giants they are in Japan. I don't even really 100% get why Dragon Quest is such a phenomenon in Japan to this day, and I really like the games myself. They don't seem like games that are really so important and universal that everyone plays and loves them to me. They're great games, but I don't see how they could rise above games like the Mario RPGs or SMT to be huge juggernauts in the JRPG space.
I don't feel like I'm doing anything meaningful in battle other than spamming my strongest skills. There's no weapon advantage/disadvantage to think about, not much party synergy, and nothing interesting in terms of spells and skills.
It's like going back to white bread after eating cake I guess.
Vital Tundra
Member
Yeah, but I still don't think the chances of DQ getting close to FF sales numbers in the west would be all that high. The SNES/PS1 era of JRPGs were insane and looking back at DQ of the era I don't see how they can compare to such greatness.
Everything about Dragon Quest is, for me, love/hate.
I often love the overall look, but as soon as I see a human Toriyama face - blech.
The music at its best is sublime, other times it kinda blends together, and at its worst it sounds like a lab-rat on amphetamines having a panic attack on a MIDI keyboard.
The stories can have wonderful touching moments, but the episodic, per-town nature of the storytelling can get really repetitive.
I often love the overall look, but as soon as I see a human Toriyama face - blech.
The music at its best is sublime, other times it kinda blends together, and at its worst it sounds like a lab-rat on amphetamines having a panic attack on a MIDI keyboard.
The stories can have wonderful touching moments, but the episodic, per-town nature of the storytelling can get really repetitive.
SpiceMelange
Member
I think they were in to something with DQ8, it turned a lot of heads in NA/EU. They should have stroked when the iron was hot instead of finally having another high-visuals DQ game 12-13 years later.
You certainly can play that way, but you can also play taking status changes, magic weaknesses, and enemy groupings into account as well.
clay_ghost
Member
I think this is why many think that DQ is hard. They just spam the strongest attack and hope to brute force though the game and grind when brute forcing does not work.
Edit
Someone need to start a thread that compiles all the misconception of the games and how to actually play the game (IE not grinding and mindlessly spam strong attacks).
I think SE have screwed up somewhat with DQ8 PS2 with its slow battle, even worst when the redesigned menu is slower for the western release. This cause gamers who only play DQ8 for PS2 have a wrong impression for the series.
Same here. I sometimes see people get to a new town, try to buy every piece of new equipment and find they don't have enough money. So they go on grinding, get overleveled, and finish the boss with just attack and heal. Then they drop the game saying it's too grindy. The truth is you are not expected to be able to purchase all the new equipment.
30 years of incompetence
Dragon Warrior I - had to have it's name changed because of licensing issues, gave the game away for free, still considered a success
Dragon Warrior II - extremely difficult, no significant changes from JP version to make it any easier, admittedly one of the worst DQ games especially for DQ beginners and children
Dragon Warrior III - zero marketing, released well into SNES lifespan
Dragon Warrior IV - zero marketing, released well into SNES lifespan
Dragon Quest I, II & III SNES - would've been a great time to reintroduce the series to western fans with the QOL improvements, but nope, didn't bother
Dragon Quest V & VI - didn't even bother releasing them
Dragon Warrior VII - released after PS2 was already out, zero marketing, admittedly looks like dogshit graphically
Dragon Quest VIII - they actually gave the game the time and attention is deserves, proper marketing, drummed up a good amount of hype for it, and what do you know? It sold really well.
Dragon Quest IX - how did S-E capitalize on DQ8's success? By dumping the publishing on Nintendo and telling them to handle it. DQIX still ended up being successful in the west, but S-E didn't want anything to do with it for whatever reason.
Dragon Quest IV, V & VI remakes - zero marketing, changed all the names up, took out the party chat in IV because they were too lazy to localize the text, didn't even bother publishing VI and dumped it on Nintendo again, etc.
Dragon Quest X - nope
Dragon Quest VII 3DS - released 3 1/2 YEARS LATER DEAR GOD
Dragon Quest Builders, Heroes I & II - here's a great idea, let's completely ignore the series in the west for 7 years, not even bother localizing the mainline entry, then release a bunch of spinoffs with zero marketing and hope they sell well
Dragon Quest XI - please don't fuck this up
Dragon Warrior I - had to have it's name changed because of licensing issues, gave the game away for free, still considered a success
Dragon Warrior II - extremely difficult, no significant changes from JP version to make it any easier, admittedly one of the worst DQ games especially for DQ beginners and children
Dragon Warrior III - zero marketing, released well into SNES lifespan
Dragon Warrior IV - zero marketing, released well into SNES lifespan
Dragon Quest I, II & III SNES - would've been a great time to reintroduce the series to western fans with the QOL improvements, but nope, didn't bother
Dragon Quest V & VI - didn't even bother releasing them
Dragon Warrior VII - released after PS2 was already out, zero marketing, admittedly looks like dogshit graphically
Dragon Quest VIII - they actually gave the game the time and attention is deserves, proper marketing, drummed up a good amount of hype for it, and what do you know? It sold really well.
Dragon Quest IX - how did S-E capitalize on DQ8's success? By dumping the publishing on Nintendo and telling them to handle it. DQIX still ended up being successful in the west, but S-E didn't want anything to do with it for whatever reason.
Dragon Quest IV, V & VI remakes - zero marketing, changed all the names up, took out the party chat in IV because they were too lazy to localize the text, didn't even bother publishing VI and dumped it on Nintendo again, etc.
Dragon Quest X - nope
Dragon Quest VII 3DS - released 3 1/2 YEARS LATER DEAR GOD
Dragon Quest Builders, Heroes I & II - here's a great idea, let's completely ignore the series in the west for 7 years, not even bother localizing the mainline entry, then release a bunch of spinoffs with zero marketing and hope they sell well
Dragon Quest XI - please don't fuck this up
sotojuan
Member
Hm I guess you CAN play that way. Again in VIII, I made heavy use of Pysching Up and my character's abilities (that I unlocked through my own character customization), buffs, debuffs on enemies, etc. Like... a regular JRPG. The only thing I underused were actual black magic attacks except for a couple of bosses.
I do agree grinding is mindless and requires no strategy unless you're severely underleved.
Chrono Trigger was almost a cult classic. The thing sold like 200k in US on Snes. It's mostly word of mouth (and solid core gameplay, story, music) that propelled it to current heights.