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Why isn't the Dragon Quest series popular outside Japan?
- Thread starter ULTROS!
- Start date
clay_ghost
Member
Hey another new misconception!
Most of them takes around 30 hours or lesser to beat (1-6), DQ 3-7 have really good plot too.
Huh? Really
? A ton of games in the series are famous for doing cool and novel shit with their stories. I thought it was at least common knowledge that they had great ones.
6 is secretly very long on a first play through because it's got a lot of content and isn't always the clearest on where to go next.
DQ6
Breath of Fire 1
Clearly, they're basically the same. Also yes, how can DQ6 be considered better looking than Soul Blazer?
I'm a huge fan of DQ but honestly comparing these images, they do look kind of similar. But I guess I may not have a careful enough eye to see the difference.
Another way to frame it is that perhaps BoF1 would also be a contender for "top RPG graphics". I googled Tales of Phantasia and Chrono Trigger and do feel like the screenshots I found were more detailed, at the expense of showing less on the screen. Probably boils down to personal taste at this level.
Dandy Crocodile
Member
Damn, this has to be one of the worst threads this year. So much misinformation.
Y'all need to go play a Dragon Quest game.
Y'all need to go play a Dragon Quest game.
Huh? Really
I thought it was at least common knowledge that they had great ones.
I'd describe them more as simple stories, well told. They tend to dodge melodramatic plot beats (ala Final Fantasy or most JRPGs) and that doesn't always sit well with people.
I've never played one of these before (in fact I don't think I have played a JRPG before) and just recently saw a trailer for DQ11 on PS4. Basically I'd like to give it try except that I can't get over what to me is the terrible character designs. Why do they all have to such huge eyes, square faces, and tiny pointy chins? Looks so bad. As it stands, Ni No Kuni II will probably be my first JRPG.
It's not flashy enough and the West doesn't look at it through rose-tinded glasses so it comes off as lazy and outdated instead of nostalgic.
Also people might have played DQ7 and mistook the series for RPGs with shitty menus, mindless battles and meh story that go on forever.
If they hope to have any chance of mainstream appeal, they need to repeat what they did with VIII; include voice acting and orchestrated music. And market it successfully like Nintendo did with IX. Not sure what kind of angle they should take for that, though.
I hope they figure something out because I don't want the series to die again in the West.
What? Heroes bombed in the West. DQ7 (and 8) came because French fans sent enough letters for SE to reconsider and Nintendo paid half of the localisation bill for DQ7.
Also people might have played DQ7 and mistook the series for RPGs with shitty menus, mindless battles and meh story that go on forever.
If they hope to have any chance of mainstream appeal, they need to repeat what they did with VIII; include voice acting and orchestrated music. And market it successfully like Nintendo did with IX. Not sure what kind of angle they should take for that, though.
I hope they figure something out because I don't want the series to die again in the West.
What? Heroes bombed in the West. DQ7 (and 8) came because French fans sent enough letters for SE to reconsider and Nintendo paid half of the localisation bill for DQ7.
Dandy Crocodile
Member
Literally all of your character design points that you claim detract against DQ XI so much as to prevent you from playing it can also be applied to Ni no Kuni 2.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
You couldn't be more wrong.
Dragon Ball is an institution in Europe. Just in France it sold 18 millions units as a manga. Bare in mind that the anime was even more popular.
Dragon Quest is interesting in that it may have a broader story, but it is very episodic at the same time. You have 'chapters' that have their own self-contain story with their own issues and plot that needs to be resolved, which is different from most RPGs where such episodic parts feel like 'filler'. There are some chapters in Dragon Quest that I found more interesting than the main story and absolutely heart-wrenching since some stories outright have a drowner ending or so bittersweet that it's mostly bitter.
Dragon Quest also don't focus on characters as much has say Final Fantasy. The characters may have some development, but overall it's the world and the individual stories that make up the game.
Basileus777
Member
Pokemon and the various Mario RPG games are still ahead.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I think it's more like the people get the pattern is the same and recurring for the vignettes:
Go to town -> Find out town's problem -> Go to dungeon -> Beat boss -> Fix/Kinda fix town
and repeat ad nauseam.
I've finished all the mainline DQ games (minus X) and this is the common vignette pattern I've seen especially in VII. Not that I hate it and it's great for short bursts of play but if you play it for long periods, it can get rather unexciting.
Earthpainting
Member
I guess the biggest reason is just that they just sort of missed the big RPG boom, and the series lacks a sense of momentum. Between Pokémon and FF7, no mainline DQ games were released, the last one didn't get localised.The next entry wouldn't appear until the early 2000s as one of the last big games on the original Playstation, and may be one of the simplest looking, yet most hardcore entries in the franchise. DQ8 performed admirably, though it snuck on some extra baggage in the expectations for the franchise in the west. While in Japan these games evoke a sense of tradition, in the west people were suddenly associating it with top of the line production values. This really killed some of the momentum for DQ9 if reactions were anything to go by, but luckily it was still able to overcome this with solid marketing and a highly successful platform with its own audience. The franchise momentum was once again halted by DQ10 not being localised, but I guess it would have been affected by the change to an MMO either way. There were quite a lot of spinoffs and remakes in between, but they had their own caveats.
DQ11 is looking like it might appeal to the DQ8 crowd again, but I'm fully expecting to hear about the lack of voice acting and orchestration being deal-breakers.
DQ11 is looking like it might appeal to the DQ8 crowd again, but I'm fully expecting to hear about the lack of voice acting and orchestration being deal-breakers.
I can understand a lot of the stigmas the series may have in the west, whether they are accurate or not, but I won't accept any slander to my goopy brothers and sisters. They're gooed folks.It has a name that sounds extremely generic in English (And the old localized name of Dragon Warrior sound generic and tryhard) and this is the mascot of the series:
Hmm, I'm drawing a blank here as to why it could possibly be unpopular.
Atlus is just very eco-friendly with all the recycling it does.
You're not wrong, but I do feel like it's a little unfair. The "problem" is like the meat of the whole thing. Especially when talking about stories, holding the delivery structure against the actual content feels the stories themselves are being cast aside when passing judgement.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I think if they advertise right, add va, updated music, and just show the game off a lot DQ11 can do well. It truly is beautiful in motion
The thing about story is: DQVIII is actually pretty weak for the franchise imo. But it is presented in a much more amenable way to someone coming to DQ from the outside.
DQVIII has arcs for the central cast members and there are stronger stories at core moments in those arcs, but generally speaking the vignettes aren't that good outside of those ones imo. Because of this focus on the main cast, and it is a charming cast, charmingly voice acted, it is more like a character driven JRPG.
DQVII is just about the antithesis of this. It has lots of quality vignettes that play around with the time travel mechanics of the game but the cast sort of disappears into the background most of the time after the introduction with the notable exception of a certain vignette. It is mostly about people other than you and your friends and this is actually quite interesting for a game.
I remember feeling much the same way about DQVI, but tbh, that's one I'm feeling I should replay.
...
Going further back you have IV and V, which are also both more character driven.
IV has you playing through the lives of various RPG standbys other than the hero--the palace guard, the merchant, the traveling entertainers, and the spoiled princess. They have their own stories and goals and they're situated within their roles, so it is really quite interesting imo. Basically, you play out the vignettes of other characters.
V has you living the life of a single man from childhood to adulthood to marriage and the aftermath, with mischief, adventure, and personal tragedy mixed in alongside a hero's tale. Tbh V is another one I should replay, as I mostly just remember the broad strokes and big moments and not the vignettes.
But my point is, if you really want character driven DQ other than VIII, you can find it further back. And also, when DQ kicks into a more oblique mode, it isn't DQ kicking into "bad story mode," so much as it is DQ being different.
DQVIII has arcs for the central cast members and there are stronger stories at core moments in those arcs, but generally speaking the vignettes aren't that good outside of those ones imo. Because of this focus on the main cast, and it is a charming cast, charmingly voice acted, it is more like a character driven JRPG.
DQVII is just about the antithesis of this. It has lots of quality vignettes that play around with the time travel mechanics of the game but the cast sort of disappears into the background most of the time after the introduction with the notable exception of a certain vignette. It is mostly about people other than you and your friends and this is actually quite interesting for a game.
I remember feeling much the same way about DQVI, but tbh, that's one I'm feeling I should replay.
...
Going further back you have IV and V, which are also both more character driven.
IV has you playing through the lives of various RPG standbys other than the hero--the palace guard, the merchant, the traveling entertainers, and the spoiled princess. They have their own stories and goals and they're situated within their roles, so it is really quite interesting imo. Basically, you play out the vignettes of other characters.
V has you living the life of a single man from childhood to adulthood to marriage and the aftermath, with mischief, adventure, and personal tragedy mixed in alongside a hero's tale. Tbh V is another one I should replay, as I mostly just remember the broad strokes and big moments and not the vignettes.
But my point is, if you really want character driven DQ other than VIII, you can find it further back. And also, when DQ kicks into a more oblique mode, it isn't DQ kicking into "bad story mode," so much as it is DQ being different.
That is really simplifying it. While I have only played a few Dragon Quest games, what makes Dragon Quest quite different from many RPGS is how you have different stories that don't really connect to on other, but they all combine into a bigger plot or story. It's similar to Paper Mario in that respect and even Mario RPG to a lesser extent.
I mean most RPGs can be broken down the way you put it if you ignore everything else.
This... DQ stories are episodic and usually tragic.
DeliciousDoc
Member
I agree completely with this. I like to play for long bursts and this kills me.
Lunarwhale
Member
for real, dragon quest has done so much for storytelling in JRPGs. Each one has a unique setup, and I can only imagine that people parroting this aren't aware of how any of the individual premises barring maybe I and VIII's.
Just using IV as an example because I'm about to finish it for the first time, but the individual chapters highlighting each charater's stakes in the plot is so good. It adds a lot to the world and makes a relatively simple plot feel more alive and sigificant (I really love the world development too, but that's a different strength of the series altogether).
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
That's what I notice during my playthroughs so yes, I may be oversimplifying it. My memory might be hazy since my only fresh memories of DQ are III, VII, and VIII.
I think if people are expecting a long, grand and one epic adventure, I don't think DQ is the right game for them since each vignette can be a standalone episode not connecting or barely connecting the main story.
VIII at least has a lot of parts that connect to the main story though.
clay_ghost
Member
I Guess the Trails series capture some of the feeling of DQ, especially with the NPCs development (but they are much less tragic) .
There were plans, iirc Enix Japan said no to V and VI just needed to be approved by Nintendo but Enix NA ran out of money and shut down.
Maybe misremembering, but they definitely tried
Etrian Oddity
Member
Didn't DQ 8 do pretty alright over here?
Loved the hell out of that game.
Loved the hell out of that game.
They seem fairly obvious for a player who is used to it, I can tell there is a looot of stuff that is there because of tradition, for example saving a file always has me having to the home menu because I like to press b and that makes me chose the quit option, I can tell that is something that has to be there because it used to be there.
But for a new player like myself it is a bit confusing and weird some of the choices they make, like having you have to give an item to another character so it can be equipped, the fact that it takes 2 hours to get to the first fight and no explanation whatsoever of how the battle system works. Its all there for you to figure out yourself. Again, I am not complaining, I enjoy a game that doesn't hold my hand, but I can see why the series might not be for everyone.
Also, I can't really speak about the series in general since this is the first one I am playing (I am only about 10 hours in), but the presentation of the game feels to appeal to children, but the dialogue can be a bit older, 30 minutes in there is a dialogue about your uncle peeping at the hot wife of a neighbor.
I feel the game is not inviting enough for an american audience, it doesn't grab you or forces you to keep playing, its just there and up to you to beat at your own pace. Its simple, yet complex, and its slow. The story is slow, the battles are slow. Its a slow burn of a game and maybe that is why it will never be as popular in the West.
What's also refreshing to me, as a non-anime fan, is that the games are mostly free of the anime tropes and teen angst that so many RPGs center themselves around.
The English translations, with their careful attention to dialects and Olde English, definitely help to make the games feel less overbearingly "Japanese" than most JRPGs... a good parallel might be how many Miyazaki films seem almost to be set in some combination of rural Europe and Japan.
One would think that this would make the games easier to translate to the West, but I think most Western RPG players want either gritty high fantasy or anime-inspired themes.
The English translations, with their careful attention to dialects and Olde English, definitely help to make the games feel less overbearingly "Japanese" than most JRPGs... a good parallel might be how many Miyazaki films seem almost to be set in some combination of rural Europe and Japan.
One would think that this would make the games easier to translate to the West, but I think most Western RPG players want either gritty high fantasy or anime-inspired themes.
They can't because the stories are so generic they never bothered playing so don't even know the stories.
That's what is a bit funny about this all--the cliché JRPG story is that central story. DQ experiments in story structure and with its little stories of peoples' lives and deaths. And this latter part just sort of gets ignored and thrown under cliche while focusing more on the heroes story makes people happier, i.e. focusing more on the cliché.
I just feel DQ is incredibly unlucky in being approached this way.
sotojuan
Member
Yep. I did like Persona 5, but cannot understand the love for the Cold Steel series. I think the games are decent, but between the mediocre pacing and cookie cutter anime characters (albeit with some interesting twists), I just don't get the love for them. I did kinda stopped watching anime all together a few years ago so maybe I'm just not into that stuff any more.
The only reasons I can think of might be that the series is a bit too traditional. Mind you, I only played DQ VI and while I appreciate the game for what it does, its pretty oldschool. I imagine that to the bigger audience its just not for them.
Missing out the RPG boom as someone mentioned above is a good reason as well.
Missing out the RPG boom as someone mentioned above is a good reason as well.
Did we ever get Western sales numbers for DQH2 or DQ Builders?
texhnolyze
Banned
Kingdom Hearts is definitely up there. Also if you count them as JRPG, Souls and Monster Hunter is more popular too. I'd even say that Tales of series is more popular in the West than Dragon Quest. DQ is pretty niche, maybe as niche as the Atelier series. Though XI has a good chance to change it to the better side.
Robin64
Member
Europe's first Final Fantasy was 7, though. Kind of the same thing. But people went nuts for FF7.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I dislike the Cold Steel series because, no matter how big or grand the adventure is, the character development (and design) is cliche in my opinion, like cookie cutter tropes. And how friendship is everything. I cringed when playing through Cold Steel.
That's one thing I can appreciate about DQ, even if the stories are simple and the cast don't get major and deep developments (maybe sans VIII), it doesn't feel cringeworthy and rather joyful and quaint. It's also trope free.
To me the first person view battles in the older games was a major factor, I hate it and do not want to play a game where I don't see my characters in battle.
Other than that I quite enjoy Dragon Quest games, DQVII on DS, DQVIII and DQIX were fun games that I quite enjoyed. And I still wish DQX had an English version, really want to play the game.
Other than that I quite enjoy Dragon Quest games, DQVII on DS, DQVIII and DQIX were fun games that I quite enjoyed. And I still wish DQX had an English version, really want to play the game.
sotojuan
Member
FFVII did have cool looking ads on TV as well as impressive FMVs and a "mature"/"modern" look. Really great timing and amazing job by Square's marketing team.
texhnolyze
Banned
Yeah, that's why I dislike JRPGs with highschool focus. They're full of cringe with the typical archetype characters that have been done to death in the past decades. I even cringed a lot playing Persona 5, wether it's from the characters, writing, or pandering.
Magicpaint
Member
I was thinking the same...
There are so many misconceptions about the series. Reading this thread has certainly been eye-opening for me. Perception >>>>>>>> Reality with this series.
Teriyaki Blues
Member
From what I can tell, people who played with other people in real life really like DQIX. It is how I played it and I can honestly say that there is no experience like it in JRPG history.
It also has one of the most challenging set of speed runs and/or solo runs, and the craziest 100% completion criteria in the history of the series as far as I know.
People that didn't like it really missed out on a very special game in my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
It doesn't have the same history of a following as other Japanese franchises in the west to make it a natural appeal like it is in Japan. And to begin with, its very conservative and traditional a franchise, and has not been in the public eye much relative to other franchises which doesn't help it in attracting newcomers.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Not sure if it will make much of a difference. Dragon Quest VII was on PS1 and Dragon Quest VIII was on PS2, and look where we are now. Dragon Quest IX has an amazing marketing campaign overseas and did really well as a result, but Square Enix squandered any kind of momentum they'd built with the series by taking years to then release Dragon Quest X, making it an MMO, and never bothering to release it in Europe or North America.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
This thread has inspired me to try one of the Super Famicom DQs. The comments about DQ not being popular because it missed the crucial SNES generation in the West hits home for me because that's my OG generation of jRPGs. I could easily have seen me picking them up after I fell in love with FFVI back in the 90s... but I never had the chance. To this day, I do not "get" DQ despite following it for decades and dabbling in some here and there.
I have a SNES flashcart so I'll probably play the fan translation on real hardware. I know I can find the SFC carts for a song... I've brushed past them a million times while in Japanese gaming shops. I'm not averse to the DS versions, but I want to see what the games would have been like in that original format.
I have a SNES flashcart so I'll probably play the fan translation on real hardware. I know I can find the SFC carts for a song... I've brushed past them a million times while in Japanese gaming shops. I'm not averse to the DS versions, but I want to see what the games would have been like in that original format.
tearsintherain
Member
Dunno about other people but the numbering is daunting and off putting. You see Dragon Quest VIII or whatever and you think "well... I haven't played any of the others, so I probably won't understand whats going on".
Yes, I know most likely the games are all completely independent and you can play any of them without knowing anything at all, but I think its a thing anyone thinks about when they see a number after a title, be it game or movie. I know I was a bit hesitant about playing Persona 5 until a lot of people told me the games have nothing to do with each other. That might be a very japanese thing too, because I can hardly think of many American games or movies where a numbered sequel doesn't imply some form of continuity.
Yes, I know most likely the games are all completely independent and you can play any of them without knowing anything at all, but I think its a thing anyone thinks about when they see a number after a title, be it game or movie. I know I was a bit hesitant about playing Persona 5 until a lot of people told me the games have nothing to do with each other. That might be a very japanese thing too, because I can hardly think of many American games or movies where a numbered sequel doesn't imply some form of continuity.