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Why isn't there a modern FPS equivalent to Doom 2?

lordy88

Member
Note: If there is a game that actually does all the things I love about Doom 2 and I'm just completely ignorant in the matter, please enlighten me. This would make my day and I will shut up.

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I decided to venture through my ever-growing backlog of Steam games to play some Final Doom and Doom 2 for a the first time in a very long time, and I was blown away. These games are absolutely fantastic, and do a lot of things right that most AAA FPS Shooter games gloss over and completely remove in favor of added technicalities and 'SUPER EPICNESS'. I was rather shocked that I had not played a game in this gaming generation that is over saturated with FPS Games that was able to encapsulate what made the original Doom games so damn good. Let me explain as elegantly as I can:

1: LET'S DO THIS

The very first remarkable thing about the game is the amount of information they feed you. Here's how you start: Click 'New Game' --> Select Difficulty --> BAM! They plop you in a with a gun with shit to kill. No Objectives, cutscenes, tutorial no bullshit in the way of you figuring out on your own how to get around and make it out alive. Awesome.

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2: BALLER LEVEL DESIGN

The popular thing to do these days is create this epic world with an entire environment to explore and traverse to get to where you're going, with a compass and pretty things to look at.

Fuck that.

Doom decides to instead focus on the levels themselves as their own individual objectives, allowing it space to breathe and give you an amazing experience one level at a time. It reminds me in a way of Super Mario Galaxy, as they chose to focus on separate levels that allowed the developers to tackle certain ideas individually, and not combine it all into one massive open world experience. Doom capitalizes on this perfectly, as they place you down in a level, setting the tone for your experience, and make you figure out how the fuck to get out of there on your own. Then when you throw in all the triggers, monsters every step of the way, and keys, guns, ammo, and health to collect in every room you are engaged through out your entire experience, and curious what you'll see next at every moment. All in a super loose feel and no bullshit in your way.

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3: SECRETS SECRETS SECRETS!

The biggest miss of most modern games IMHO. This ties in easily with level design, as ID decided to give you multiple secrets every level for you to be actively keeping an eye out for as you're attempting to beat the shit out of everything and not get demolished by rockets. I would be running up walls slamming down the space bar hoping to uncover a secret door or switch that would lead me to a hidden BFG or Soulsphere. We all know by now the different colored walls, or to listen carefully for lifts moving in the distance, and it kept me on the edge of my toes everywhere I went. I can't think of a Modern FPS that has anything close to the amount of hidden content that Doom had.

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4: HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT

One thing that Doom 2 (and Final Doom to a much larger degree) certainly had are it's HOLY SHIT moments. Moments such as flipping a switch in the middle of the room and hearing the sounds of Archviles awakening while 15 mancubi (mancubuses?) appear behind descending fake walls produce emotions of terror and confusion as you're left flailing your plasma gun praying to survive until you find a safe area. These moments happen nearly every level, and sometimes multiple times each level. It seems at times they literally put their hand into a pot and threw the monsters into the level while yelling down at you DEAL WITH IT as you scramble to assess the situation. These moments ARE AWESOME.


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Alright that was a lot of text. But I think I've made myself clear. This arcade aspect of First Person Shooters mixed with an immense amount of secrets and tons of shit to kill is lost in today's Brotastic FPS Generation, and I'm surprised a developer hasn't snatched up the opportunity to make it happen.

Not to mention, there is some serious potential here! Same basic formula, throw in some amazing HD graphics, co-op play, more new enemies, more guns, more unique levels, big modding community, leaderboards for fastest times, etc. ID Was certainly limited while designing this game in many facets, and there are so many areas in which modern technology can take this incredible gameplay to the next level. Why has no one done it yet?

Seriously, am I the only one who misses this stuff?

/end rant
 
I think you kind of miss the point about Doom/Doom 2 being revolutionary to PC gaming.

I think you actually are asking "why are modern FPS' so stale"?

But if you just want a retro FPS, play Hard Reset. It's ridiculous.
 
serious sam 3?

I was about to mention the Serious Sam series myself. Easily the closest I've gotten to a Doom-like. But who cares, I'm still waiting for an FPS as awesome as the original Blood.
(Someone please make a spiritual sequel, you can call it..Gore! ;( )
 
serious sam 3?

Actually, reading about Serious Sam 3's DRM method got me thinking about this.

SS3 looks to be close (I haven't played it just yet, planning on it), but does it have the same level design philosophy? Secrets galore?

I think you kind of miss the point about Doom/Doom 2 being revolutionary to PC gaming.

I think you actually are asking "why are modern FPS' so stale"?

But if you just want a retro FPS, play Hard Reset. It's ridiculous.

I played the Hard Reset Demo, and I'm looking forward to checking that out soon. I don't disagree with my original point, however. It has nothing to do with being revolutionary, as I never used the word in my ramble, but more with why modern FPS haven't embraced its roots.
 
Actually, reading about Serious Sam 3's DRM method got me thinking about this.

SS3 looks to be close (I haven't played it just yet, planning on it), but does it have the same level design philosophy? Secrets galore?

There are secrets all over the place in SS3 BFE and it's an awesome game, especially in co-op.
 
The Serious Sam games are the closest thing you'll find to a 3d version of Doom. If there any others, I'd love to hear what they are, as these are my favorite fps to play.
 
Bulletstorm?

It's bare on story, cool looking levels with interesting areas (for skill kills), some hidden things, and two or three big moments mixed in with the constant arcadey action.
 
Painkiller, maybe?
 
SS3 looks to be close (I haven't played it just yet, planning on it), but does it have the same level design philosophy? Secrets galore?

Serious Sam has never had the same sort of level design as DOOM, and SS3 is no exception. It's a wonderful series when it comes to the interplay between enemies and guns, but it doesn't do mazes. Not even keycards, most of the time. Plenty of secrets to track down though.
 
I was about to mention the Serious Sam series myself. Easily the closest I've gotten to a Doom-like. But who cares, I'm still waiting for an FPS as awesome as the original Shadow Warrior
(Someone please make a spiritual sequel, you can call it..Gore! ;( )

fixed that for you
 
I think you kind of miss the point about Doom/Doom 2 being revolutionary to PC gaming.

I think you actually are asking "why are modern FPS' so stale"?

But if you just want a retro FPS, play Hard Reset. It's ridiculous.

Play with Serious Sam's Cannonball blaster.

And yes there are tons of secrets...even mini-secrets in SS3. Actually play Serious Sam the first and second encounter HD, as well as Serious Sam 3 BFE.

There are secrets all over the place in SS3 BFE and it's an awesome game, especially in co-op.

Oh man, that's great news. I'm definitely going to check all of them out now.

I still think ID should go back to the arcade labyrinth FPS with Doom 4 though. That would be incredible.
 
It's not really a Doom clone but Serious Sam 3 is one of the best pure action first person shooters I've ever played.
 
Serious Sam has never had the same sort of level design as DOOM, and SS3 is no exception. It's a wonderful series when it comes to the interplay between enemies and guns, but it doesn't do mazes. Not even keycards, most of the time. Plenty of secrets to track down though.

Yeah, in terms of maps and level design, not really the same. But in terms of sheer intensity and number of monsters on the screen at once, that's where they're similar.
 
Hard Reset was more surprising than anything else. A polished action FPS coming out of nowhere? With a developer that actually listens to complaints and quickly irons out the kinks? Yes pls.

So it was a success in that I'm now very interested in what the developer can accomplish on their next try. ..but as a game, it doesn't really compare to the best in the genre. Enemy design is kind of dull, too many invisible walls.
 
Lots of games have holy shit holy shit and those are called Doom throwbacks. I hate it. Nothing has the levels and speed of Doom or Quake.

Quake 1 is probably the most modern Doom 2 equivalent.

Barring the awesome design I do not think any modern games let the player have multiple enemies alive in a level like Doom did with the player crossing back and forth. Most games today have no persistence outside of their streamed texture area.
 
I think you kind of miss the point about Doom/Doom 2 being revolutionary to PC gaming.

I think you actually are asking "why are modern FPS' so stale"?

But if you just want a retro FPS, play Hard Reset. It's ridiculous.

Hard Reset definitely does not have "baller level design".
 
Serious Sam 3 (and Serious Sam HD First and Second Encounters, for that matter) are the closest that you'll find in modern games.

The levels themselves don't have the complexity of Doom 2, but they're still better than just about everything else out there. There's very little in terms of Doom's maze-like qualities, and not much backtracking at all, but each level is a contained, designed experience, and they are chock full of secrets. There's a perception that the games are nothing but wide open fields filled with tons of monsters - presumably because that's where the most outrageously frantic encounters tend to happen - but there's a pretty healthy mix of confined, corridor shooting, wide open Robotron-esque arenas, crowded areas with lots of small buildings and alleys between them, linear paths packed to the gills with enemies that are all in front of you, and other times where the challenge is that they can come from any direction. The game is largely driven by enemy spawn triggers, mandatory, optional, and hidden. It's pretty sharply designed, though again, not exactly the way Doom did it, and probably not as good overall as Doom, when talking specifically about level design.

Other than that, they're very straightforward games (only SS3 really has cutscenes, and they're all deadpan parody anyway, so you can skip them if they're just not your thing and never miss a beat), secrets galore (there's a whole hidden level in The First Encounter), and they actually do the frantic "Oh fuck fuck fuck fuck" moments better than Doom ever did, in my opinion. They've all also got co-op (with tons of options in terms of exactly how and to what extent the encounters will be ramped up to deal with extra players, along with modes like Coin-Op co-op, where rather than respawning infinitely you all have a shared pool of lives), leaderboards with scoring systems, best clear times, etc.
 
I guess I'm asking more about complexity and maze-line nature.
Straight forward room by room game where you need to kill every monster to advance. They have some geometry but usually only a little verticality. The maps cross over visually but you cannot travel along those lines of sight in any way. Most of the stair rails and fence posts are invisibly walled even though a few random ones can be jumped on giving a taste of heaven.

I had fun with the game but it does not have maze like design.
 
I'd actually (continue) to recommend Duke Nukem Forever for people who want an FPS game that has an equal focus on traversal and level design as it does shooting action.
 
secrets galore (there's a whole hidden level in The First Encounter)

Two, actually.

I think I need to add Serious Sam to my wishlist now.

For straight up shooting action, there is no equal. And yeah, the series is really fond of the good kind of unpleasant surprises. SS3 tends to be pretty fair about it, but SS1 delights in spawning enemies in around the player ("Secret deathtrap has been found!").
 
I'm kind of amused at how the Metroid Prime series seems to fit your listed requirements while simultaneously being as un-DOOMlike as is Humanly possible. The beginning is basically "Oh, look, it's a space ship" → land, jump out, start playing. The level design is generally great, you have to explore the fuck out of everything to discover secret passageways and items and story elements. I'll leave it to the real fans of the series to say whether or not there are Holy Shit moments, but I can say that the subtitle of the Metroid Prime 3 official thread here is "HOLY FREAKING CRAP".

Not entirely serious here, but I thought some it might spur some interesting discussion
 
If you want to get as intimate as possible with Doom, check out ManDoom, a little ZDoom offshoot I made about a year ago. Game gets ridiculously tense with permadeath.

SS3's map design is a big leap over the prior games, but it's still more a series of arenas than anything interconnected. Given how wonderful the battles in that game are (again, way better than in the first two), that's fine.
 
Most "secrets" in the old id games are lame as fuck. Mashing on random walls is not my idea of fun.

Great games, though.
 
I think I need to add Serious Sam to my wishlist now.

This is a recording a friend of mine did of the last half of the last fight of a level about 3/4 of the way through the game. It's not the most frantic that I've seen the game get (mostly because she's trying to minimize the number of enemies at her back, and staying on the outskirts of the area), but you can still see how many rockets and bullets and bolas are being tossed around, on top of the enemies that try to charge and leap at you, chase after you to kamikaze, etc.
 
I'm kind of amused at how the Metroid Prime series seems to fit your listed requirements while simultaneously being as un-DOOMlike as is Humanly possible. The beginning is basically "Oh, look, it's a space ship" → land, jump out, start playing. The level design is generally great, you have to explore the fuck out of everything to discover secret passageways and items and story elements. I'll leave it to the real fans of the series to say whether or not there are Holy Shit moments, but I can say that the subtitle of the Metroid Prime 3 official thread here is "HOLY FREAKING CRAP".

Not entirely serious here, but I thought some it might spur some interesting discussion

Pretty much my exact thoughts.
 
Serious Sam is the DOOM we haven't had in a long time and the Duke Nukem Forever we should have had a decade ago.
 
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