IIRC aren't you a known racist here on GAF? That means you buy into all of this horseshit they spew, no? Or just the racist stuff only?
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Why not let the Southern US be its own country?
- Thread starter OrangeGrayBlue
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IIRC aren't you a known racist here on GAF? That means you buy into all of this horseshit they spew, no? Or just the racist stuff only?
exmachina64
Banned
What's to stop any secession agreement from including free evacuation and retainment of citizenship for any minorities or liberals that wants to leave the South?
If the states that comprise the South were to unilaterally secede again, a second Civil War would occur. Any outcome that leads to Southern secession would be the result of a bilateral agreement.
Ah yes, and because the North is such a utopian racist free paradise there will be no problems at all when a massive exodus of Black people suddenly moves into white neighborhoods. Absolutely no economic or housing related discrimination will occur at all!
I agree. My dickishness is part of that social pressure. I'm not sure how effective it is, but I am also not sure sincerity would be received if not spat back at me.
freenudemacusers
Member
the are certainly no separatists in the pacific northwest. none whatsoever.
exmachina64
Banned
Touché.
They certainly won't get elected governor or sent to Washington DC tho...
gotta say, Oregon racists were the first ones to open me up to genetic race discssions. It's where I learned what a clade was. Not biology class.
Moving back to NC, for sure if this happens.
Although, to be clear, good ol' Jesse Helms was basically the NC face of DC politics for ages. It's not like NC doesn't have its terrible side.
PhineBuyM3
Member
My gut tells me your full of shit.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
As a Southerner, I just... I don't even know what to say to this. Are people outside the South really still this ignorant of what the South is like?
I don't know if you realize this, but the push-pull dynamic is a critical part of the United States. The only reason our Constitution even gave all citizens a right to vote, instead of restricting it to those with property or wealth like virtually every other country, is because the wealthy plantation-owning Southerners that controlled politics in the South then had a lot of land but no cash, whereas the Northern merchants who controlled politics in the North had a lot of cash assets but owned only small amounts of land. It was a compromise.
The fact is, both the liberal Democrats and the conservative Republicans are full of shit and controlled by their idiot constituents and only by their constant flip-flopping has the USA remained in a tenable middle-ground. Look at NYC: it's a fucking police state! They want to give their officers machine guns and ban guns for civilians. They want to fucking ban large sodas! With the South that's not possible. Similarly, look at the South! We have unhealthy food, we allow guns, and our taxes are really low. (In fact, Americans are moving to the South in droves. I wonder why?) But without Federal money, we'd be practically third world! Without the rest of the USA, we'd probably pass terrible, discriminatory laws! But we need some seemingingly bad policies, like our low taxes. Take my home state of SC, for instance. Without gutting taxes to attract corporations like BMW, Michelin, or Boeing (Washington state was pissed when they lost that contract to us.) we would have very little industry, even. We need these policies to industrialize! And most of the states outside the South are paying for us to do it, too, because we take in more Federal money than we contribute.
And finally, you extremely snide statement on "letting the South do what it wants" (are you suggesting that the South is just a puppet of the rest of the country?) is one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen. Do people outside the South really still assume that we're all ultra-religious, racist idiots...? What makes you think people in the South want this?
on "letting the South do what it wants"...
to be fair, we would have some really fucked up anti-gay laws, some fucked up anti-minority voting laws, some really fucked up history text books, and more, if people weren't tugging from the outside to prevent certain things from happening. Of course there are the local people who are literally heroes doing the pushing from the inside, and without them we would be lost, and this thread does kind of ignore the ones who are there on the battlefield.
to be fair, we would have some really fucked up anti-gay laws, some fucked up anti-minority voting laws, some really fucked up history text books, and more, if people weren't tugging from the outside to prevent certain things from happening. Of course there are the local people who are literally heroes doing the pushing from the inside, and without them we would be lost, and this thread does kind of ignore the ones who are there on the battlefield.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Your are being disingenous and you know it. Poster was simply pointing out the southern red/republican/conservatives states hypocrisy when they complain about "wealth redistribution" considering the fact that they are ones receiving more federal dollars than blue states
Good Lord.
This is a little different. Back then, we fought to preserve the Union.
Now, in this "thought experiment," we're supposing the South should be allowed to splinter off and form its own country or countries because Internet poster does not like the South. The differences are subtle, to be sure.
"Thought experiment," makes it sound better.
ErasureAcer
Banned
How bout you take down the damn confederate flag and then we'll talk.
CrocMother
Banned
People in the US need to travel more within their own country.
ErasureAcer
Banned
When they're flying the Confederate flag...that isn't this country. TAKE DOWN THE FLAG! TAKE DOWN THE FLAG!
I think you care more about this flag then we do.
Also, good on you for responding to a guy asking people to consider reality instead of stereotypes with... a stereotype.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
ErasureAcer
Banned
I think you care more about this flag then we do.
Also, good on you for responding to a guy asking people to consider reality instead of stereotypes with... a stereotype.
Stereotyping who? The guy from South Carolina is from a state where they're still flying the Confederate flag til this day. It's not a stereotype if it's a fucking fact. There are plenty more states in the South flying it well at their fucking capitol building and god knows where else.
crimsonspider89
Banned
My reason is a simple reason: I live there.
And I personally don't to be hanged by the crazy conservatives down here.
And I personally don't to be hanged by the crazy conservatives down here.
See. That's why we kick them out, as pretext for the invasion. then we go in, and the poor oppressed whites and blacks will greet us as liberators.
And because a few idiots parade that flag around that condemns the entire region? Sounds exactly like a stereotype to me. Its been said a million times in this thread by now, but the South is not some homogenous group of dumb white racists. It is a very diverse region in both race and culture, arguably more diverse than many Northern states.
So yeah, please don't lump everyone together with the loudest idiots from our region. I can assure you that many people from here hate that damn flag, including yours truly.
problem is, your so-called "idiots" are infesting the state houses. and spreading their bullshit to Washington DC. We got a white supremacist majority whip now.
Yeah, and many of us would very much like for reforms to take place, especially to gerrymandering and voting laws.
That's what the South needs. Reform, not secession. If you realistically want secession and not reform, then you are only making things worse.
As a Southerner, I just... I don't even know what to say to this. Are people outside the South really still this ignorant of what the South is like?
I don't know if you realize this, but the push-pull dynamic is a critical part of the United States. The only reason our Constitution even gave all citizens a right to vote, instead of restricting it to those with property or wealth like virtually every other country, is because the wealthy plantation-owning Southerners that controlled politics in the South then had a lot of land but no cash, whereas the Northern merchants who controlled politics in the North had a lot of cash assets but owned only small amounts of land. It was a compromise.
Actually, there was a fairly significant property and voting restrictions until about the 1820s and 30s. You will be happy to know that it was the republican-democrats (lead by Southerns) who captured the democratic feeling of northern and mid-Atlantic city residents (a good portion who had the vote and demanded that even more get it) and eventually pushed the federalists out of office and eventually to extinction.
Interestingly though, even though it was a Southern leadership dominated party that promoted the feelings of a greater democracy, states like Virginia and South Carolina were among the least democratic states by the 1850s-1860s. They were controlled by the planter elite, which is likely one reason why we had a civil war.
ErasureAcer
Banned
It's on the fucking capitol building dude. Holy fucking shit. Do some fucking research. It's not a couple of people. It has the STATE endorsement which REPRESENTS ALL THE PEOPLE!!!!
So that also includes the large population of Black people in South Carolina too? They are just fine with it too? You must be new to US politics if you really think State governments represent 100% of their populations actual feelings and beliefs.
Maybe its more likely a small minority of white people are in power who have rather gross beliefs about race and put the flag up, much to the dismay of others in the State.
The world exists in shades of grey. Just because one group does bad things does not mean everybody is also bad and automatically agrees with them.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Wow. Thanks for the lesson dude. You should be a teacher...you're so wise.
Wow, there is no need to get upset when all we are doing is having a mild debate.
Mr. Saturn
Member
Why are you being such an asshole? I think most gaffers who live in the South are embarrassed by the confederate flag being flown on their capital buildings, even if the confederate flag is state sanctioned that doesn't mean every single person supports the flag okay. I
don't know what you expect Arcia to do? Do you expect him to take down the confederate flag by himself (an action I would be okay with), its not his fault the South is filled with retrograde idiots, I personally think the whole confederate flag being flown anywhere is embarrassing as all hell.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Retrograde idiots are exclusive to the south. None anywhere else. And certainly no institutional race issues anywhere but the south.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Are we? You haven't put forth one good point yet. Guy was from South Carolina. I mentioned how they and other states(if they're still up...I new Georgia was flying it not too long ago) refuse to denounce their traitorous ties to their former country, the Confederate States of America. And the best you can do is say I'm falling into Southern stereotypes. I know there's plenty of people against the Confederate flag in the South...why you have to point this out to me is beyond condescending. The point being is someone suggested visiting the South. Why the fuck would I want to visit the South(South Carolina or any other states brandishing the Confederate flag) when they're still waving around a flag 150 years after the fact on their fucking capitol that quite simply stands for racial injustice, slavery, and most importantly a big FU to the USA. Just imagine putting up an Islamic State flag on a capitol building 150 years from now...it's the same damn thing. The maniac losers shouldn't be able to wave their flag at all. It's beyond fucking insulting.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Dude says I'm stereotyping the South when I'm not. The facts are the facts which I've stated. That's why I'm pissed dude. If you have someone making false accusations about you...you'd be pissed too.
And you're the one who just said "it's not his fault the South is filled with retrograde idiots"...seems like you're the one stereotyping. Do you think Arcia is going to bitch you out for that stereotypical remark? If he had any consistency he would but then again I never was stereotyping the South...you are. Go get him Arcia!
Mr. Saturn
Member
Ah I see. Well maybe in the future the confederate flag will be rightfully looked at as an embarrassment. Though i can't see that happening any time soon
Alright, I really don't want to have any fights. I disagree when you said I haven't made one good point yet though. I think I have stated my case very well in my previous posts and I don't think I need to keep repeating myself.
I also didn't mean to be condescending, and I am sorry if I offended you. These are pretty divisive subjects we are talking about here, so I just wanted to type out my thoughts as carefully as I could. Also, it is hard to tell on the internet if I am talking to someone from the US or not and what knowledge level they have about racial conditions and history in the South.
But, I would rather not have this thread be about me, so I would like it if we could we please stop the hostilities and get back on topic.
Edit: ...or just stop. I think I'm going to at least
The Southeastern U.S. is one of the richest pieces of land on Earth in terms of natural resources, climate, and coastline. Demographics will take the bite out of it's admittedly awful politics and christian conservative culture, in time.
If you want to really fix the U.S., order number 1 is taking all those western States where no lives like Wyoming, Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, Nebraska, and Montana and combining them into one or two States. And then splitting California into 6 states. That'll get the Senate to better representing this country's population.
If you want to really fix the U.S., order number 1 is taking all those western States where no lives like Wyoming, Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, Nebraska, and Montana and combining them into one or two States. And then splitting California into 6 states. That'll get the Senate to better representing this country's population.
Mr. Saturn
Member
If I were stereotyping wouldn't I have said all people in the South are retrograde idiots? All I was saying was there's unfortunately a lot of people who look to the confederate flag as a source of pride, is it the majority, well that I don't know, but I wasn't trying to stereotype anyone. Anyway, sorry for calling you an asshole before that was too far, but I don't think there's any need to speak to me that way.
Coloring states is sort of silly though. We only think that way because we have the Electoral College but the Electoral College is stupid. We should at least consider counties.
(distorted for population
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/
Maybe this has already been said in this thread, but the way I understand it is, the political and ideological divide in this country these days is mostly between urban and rural. If you look at these read/blue areas by county or state, it looks like the red has more total surface area, but the blue areas are more populous.
Looking up the populations of states and cities has been kind of mind blowing to me. I was always puzzled by US population maps showing almost no one living in some of the western areas. Now I just realized for instance, that New York City's population by itself is like 16 times that of Wyoming. Jesus.
One of the most important maps I've seen is one basically showing that half the country's GDP comes from 10 urban areas.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
HOLY SHIT
superdeluxe
Member
Cascadia wants to peace out as well.
Vicetrailia
Member
No thanks.
Don't wanna be stuck with conservatives who worship JP Morgan, Rockefeller and Carnegie and want labor laws to return to that time.
Don't wanna be stuck with conservatives who worship JP Morgan, Rockefeller and Carnegie and want labor laws to return to that time.
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