Support NeoGAF

[Yukinari]

Yeah, but let's not pretend they were entirely clear about this up front in the messaging. The event is obviously designed to evoke the Olympics, and the Rio games in particular. Allowing people to think that this was really a one time -- or every four years -- thing certainly helped create the desirability and sense of urgency that would make them more likely to buy a few loot boxes "just this time."

The thing that bothers me with the quick "it's just cosmetics, just don't buy it" responses is that it doesn't acknowledge the truth in how this game was deliberately designed.

It's strange to see some people who are quick to praise the game for how well designed the shooting and maps are and yet seem to think that the loot loop being a slow grind littered with sharp spikes of disappointment was somehow a mistake. It just happened that way. The leveling grind slowing as early as level 20 and not ramping up again for another 80 levels; the numerous throw away items of little importance; the large number of palette swap skins; the fact that you can receive duplicates (even within the same box); the usual F2P loot box process of hooooolding the button down to make a meal of it, trying to create a feeling of anticipation and excitement; the deliberate sense of disappointment when you didn't get what you want with the option to buy right there in the corner, offering relief; and now the devaluation of their own in game currency. A currency that you can't even exchange directly for money and only receive in random amounts or as a small trade in for a fraction of the value of a duplicate that you're already disappointed to see in your box.

All of that is an accident?

Are we pretending it just happened that way? The shooting, the maps, the character abilities being balanced -- that was all intentional and carefully designed, but the fact that the loot boxes are particularly manipulative and intended to target people who are vulnerable to gambling addiction must be in people's heads.

There definitely wasn't a clear intention to exploit mental illness, which is what gambling addiction is. It's funny how little that gets brought up. I guess it sounds less like something you can say is someone's "own fault" when you acknowledge that what Blizzard is doing is targeting known symptoms of mental illness that are present in many and can be amplified to greater degrees in some with certain triggers that, hey, this game possesses a lot of.

It's super unsavory and gross, though, so I guess people would rather blame Blizzard's clear intentions on the people they're targeting rather than acknowledge that, in crafting their game as they have, they have made several clear choices.

Acting like it's someone's fault that Blizzard's deliberate attempts to manipulate them worked is like pretending the player is in some way responsible for how well the shooting handles. The player had nothing to do with that either.

The manipulation and exploitation was not the player's choice; it was Blizzard's.

How can one person be so correct. We're done here.

Its extremely manipulative and blizzard knows they could handle it differently but they decided money is important.

 

[NeoRaider]

Biggest problem for me is trying to understand why ppl care so much about the cosmetic stuff in their favorite games. And are ready to pay for them with the real money.

Since all this started i opened more than 20 loot boxes and only got VLs, sprays and icons. (Many times duplicates)
Clearly it's designed to give them real money and ppl should STOP doing that.

Ppl should just stop thinking that it makes you special in any way, no it doesn't make you special and it doesn't make the game more fun!

 

[zoukka]

They shamelessly exploit those with gambling problems and neurotic collectors who have to get all the skins... In a premium priced game.

It's shameless and irresponsible.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The thing that bothers me with the quick "it's just cosmetics, just don't buy it" responses is that it doesn't acknowledge the truth in how this game was deliberately designed.

It's strange to see some people who are quick to praise the game for how well designed the shooting and maps are and yet seem to think that the loot loop being a slow grind littered with sharp spikes of disappointment was somehow a mistake. It just happened that way. The leveling grind slowing as early as level 20 and not ramping up again for another 80 levels; the numerous throw away items of little importance; the large number of palette swap skins; the fact that you can receive duplicates (even within the same box); the usual F2P loot box process of hooooolding the button down to make a meal of it, trying to create a feeling of anticipation and excitement; the deliberate sense of disappointment when you didn't get what you want with the option to buy right there in the corner, offering relief; and now the devaluation of their own in game currency. A currency that you can't even exchange directly for money and only receive in random amounts or as a small trade in for a fraction of the value of a duplicate that you're already disappointed to see in your box.

All of that is an accident?

Are we pretending it just happened that way? The shooting, the maps, the character abilities being balanced -- that was all intentional and carefully designed, but the fact that the loot boxes are particularly manipulative and intended to target people who are vulnerable to gambling addiction must be in people's heads.

There definitely wasn't a clear intention to exploit mental illness, which is what gambling addiction is. It's funny how little that gets brought up. I guess it sounds less like something you can say is someone's "own fault" when you acknowledge that what Blizzard is doing is targeting known symptoms of mental illness that are present in many and can be amplified to greater degrees in some with certain triggers that, hey, this game possesses a lot of.

It's super unsavory and gross, though, so I guess people would rather blame Blizzard's clear intentions on the people they're targeting rather than acknowledge that, in crafting their game as they have, they have made several clear choices.

Acting like it's someone's fault that Blizzard's deliberate attempts to manipulate them worked is like pretending the player is in some way responsible for how well the shooting handles. The player had nothing to do with that either.

The manipulation and exploitation was not the player's choice; it was Blizzard's.

You're going to have to indict the entire mobile phone game industry and F2P MMO industry, and I think the line you have to get in to do that is pretty long these days.

Blizzard isn't doing something unique at all, and unfortunately as long as people are willing to pay, these practices will continue.

The real problem is the lack of regulation and there's no one in politics who even really knows about video games much less wants to do anything besides censor Mortal Kombat.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Biggest problem for me is trying to understand why ppl care so much about the cosmetic stuff in their favorite games. And are ready to pay for them with the real money.

Since all this started i opened more than 20 loot boxes and only got VLs, sprays and icons. (Many times duplicates)
Clearly it's designed to give them real money and ppl should STOP doing that.

Ppl should just stop thinking that it makes you special in any way, no it doesn't make you special and it doesn't make the game more fun!

There are people who want to have the carrot on a stick and in that case its (mostly) Skins they want. I am the same. I played a lot of UT and Quake in the 90s so I can play games "just for fun", but when a game offers more content, and Skins, sprays are content, then you obviously want that.

Especially for the character you play often.

 

[Syntax]

Yeah, but let's not pretend they were entirely clear about this up front in the messaging. The event is obviously designed to evoke the Olympics, and the Rio games in particular. Allowing people to think that this was really a one time -- or every four years -- thing certainly helped create the desirability and sense of urgency that would make them more likely to buy a few loot boxes "just this time."

Certainly the created scarcity of the items and the perceived time frame for acquiring them are all intentional (a lie of omission?). I wasn't saying they weren't. Just pointing out that they're not tied to the Olympics even though they're clearly a rip off.

 

[Haly]

This is a glass half empty/half full scenario. Many people here know intimately just how "greedy" companies can get via microtransactions. While some see areas where Blizzard can be more generous, we see areas where Blizzards existing generosity is already surprising in and of itself.

I'm glad Overwatch is playable in its current form at all. I would not have been surprised one bit if it was F2P with grind/paywall heroes, a la HOTS or League. Or if there wasn't any lootboxes whatsoever and it's just pay for skins. Or if they were planning to do yearly revisions that obsoleted the previous versions, like every modern fighting game.

 

[zoukka]

You're going to have to indict the entire mobile phone game industry and F2P MMO industry, and I think the line you have to get in to do that is pretty long these days.

Blizzard isn't doing something unique at all, and unfortunately as long as people are willing to pay, these practices will continue.

The real problem is the lack of regulation and there's no one in politics who even really knows about video games much less wants to do anything besides censor Mortal Kombat.

Those mobile games don't cost 60 euros.

 

[TatteredHat]

You're going to have to indict the entire mobile phone game industry and F2P MMO industry, and I think the line you have to get in to do that is pretty long these days.

Blizzard isn't doing something unique at all, and unfortunately as long as people are willing to pay, these practices will continue.

The real problem is the lack of regulation and there's no one in politics who even really knows about video games much less wants to do anything besides censor Mortal Kombat.

Most games doing that stuff are free. Blizzard's decision to add Gacha mechanics to a $60 game is pretty unique, actually. Uniquely exploitative.

 

[Recall]

This is a glass half empty/half full scenario. Many people here know intimately just how "greedy" companies can get via microtransactions. While some see areas where Blizzard can be more generous, we see areas where Blizzards existing generosity is already surprising in and of itself.

No one is ever forced to buy micro transactions yet so many people just willingly fork over money then complain about it.

Blizzard exists to make money, if no one bought the loot boxes then they would have changed how else to get your money, but it required no effort.

It's clearly very easy to manipulate the consumer. Is it their fault others cant control themselves?

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Blizzard exists to make money, if no one bought the loot boxes then they would have changed how else to get your money, but it required no effort.

They could have tried charging $40/$60 for it.

Oh wait.

 

[Haly]

Do you guys really want the F2P version of Overwatch instead? Is that really your argument? Because I guarantee you it would be 100% more toxic and manipulative; full of even more marketing bullshit than there already is.

If you guys can't even handle the existence of cosmetic gacha I'm curious how you could even stomach the thought of F2Pwatch.

 

[Greddleok]

Do you guys really want the F2P version of Overwatch instead? Is that really your argument? Because I guarantee you it would be 100% more toxic and manipulative; full of even more marketing bullshit than there already is.

If you guys can't even handle the existence of cosmetic gacha I'm curious how you could even stomach the thought of F2Pwatch.

I don't really see how it could be much worse. At least I wouldn't have to pay £60 to play a F2P game.

 

[lupinko]

Bamco has already done this with vanilla Tekken 7, they haven't done it yet with FR, but given their success with it, it's likely it'll come to console next year too.

For premium items, you need either premium tickets which are obtained via game conditions or logins or whatever (so sorta like achievements usually) or buy randomized premium items.

That was actually the update for FR, vanilla didn't have a premium ticket system and only did the randomized lotto tickets.

And Tekken also had event availability for certain premiums like the idolmaster outfits which haven't returned since their only appearance for a couple of months.

So if you just started FR now and wanted those outfits or say Tekken 4 Steve or Tekken 2 ending / Tekken 3 alt Biker Paul, you are out of luck until Bamco decides to bring them back.

Spoiler

I have 7 of the 8 idolmaster outfits.

Basically just saying that Blizzard isn't alone on this and that it's reached fighting games too.

 

[Haly]

I don't really see how it could be much worse. At least I wouldn't have to pay £60 to play a F2P game.

I wish I could've paid $60 when League of Legends came out. Would've saved me $240 in the long run. That's the perspective I'm coming from.

 

[Tecnniqe]

No one is ever forced to buy micro transactions yet so many people just willingly fork over money then complain about it.

Blizzard exists to make money, if no one bought the loot boxes then they would have changed how else to get your money, but it required no effort.

It's clearly very easy to manipulate the consumer. Is it their fault others cant control themselves?

There is a reason gambling and casinos are so heavily regulated in most countries. People can't help themselves, even when they have no money they go an borrow more to gamble.

It's easy to blame the person playing the game, but we're threading more and more into pure gambling every other day in this industry. And the biggest issue is that anyone can do it, regardless of age.

Cosmetics for cash is fine, but when you can spend $200+ and get duplicates and you can't spend the duplicate money to purchase the cosmetics something is obviously wrong.

 

[RandomExpletive]

I've got no problem with the system they're using HOWEVER I can see why people would be worried when Blizz retroactively changes the wording on what your gold can buy.

That was bad.

But selling cosmetics in a 60 (or 40) dollar game doesn't seem like the end of the world. It seems like a good use of their art team while they're not working on new maps

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

I get loot boxes. And I also get why they have chosen to do it the way they do with summer loot boxes. The most frustrating part is duplicates.

Duplicates lower your changes significantly for that skin you want.

 

[Haly]

I mean this isn't even getting into the balance implications of hero rotations. Think Hanzo spammers are toxic now? Imagine if one week's rotation consisted of Winston/Genji/Hanzo/Symmetra.

The game would not only be filled to the brim with even more shady business practices, it wouldn't even be fun!

 

[Syntax]

The trouble is also that more than likely this model will only continue with future seasonal events. Halloween? Christmas? Winter Games?

Creating a window for getting those types of skins and then removing the in-game currency from the equation can only be described as predatory.

I'm sure we'll continue to receive free content as well, but that was always part of the deal. It was outlined by Blizzard before the games' launch that characters and maps would be free. Ana, Sombra, Eichewalde aren't examples of Blizzard's magnanimity.

I do genuinely wonder now if that won't change at some point down the line also and we'll see a character introduced that is anything other than completely free.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I mean this isn't even getting into the balance implications of hero rotations. Think Hanzo spammers are toxic now? Imagine if one week's rotation consisted of Winston/Genji/Hanzo/Symmetra.

The game would not only be filled to the brim with even more shady business practices, it wouldn't even be fun!

It's possible to have a f2p game and subsist entirely on cosmetics.

TF2 is free and doesn't have any of this LoL rotation nonsense you're claiming is the only other option. Says a lot about your opinion of Blizzard, though.

 

[Haly]

TF2 is free and doesn't have any of this LoL rotation nonsense you're claiming is the only other option.

Battle.net is not Steam. Even if Valve took a loss on TF2, they would've made it back by increased Steam penetration.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Battle.net is not Steam. Even if Valve took a loss on TF2, they would've made it back by increased Steam penetration.

Why would Valve intentionally take a loss on TF2, lmao.

Valve makes money by selling cosmetics in TF2. Blizzard does as well, but they also charge you $40 up front, and take away your ability to trade them so the only way to get them is through their gambling boxes.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

So there is something I didn't understand with Overwatch's event, and I'm sorry if this has been asked already.

This isn't a 1:1 comparison obviously, but when I played some Hearthstone expansions a while back, you could open a pack from the expansion or a pack from the starter.

Would it be so unacceptable to Blizzard to have the boxes be like this? In other words, when I get a box, I can choose to open it as either a starter box or a Summer Games (or whatever event) box. And whatever I open only has the stuff from that set. Considering the amount of shitty voice lines, sprays and player icons they made for the event, I don't think that would make things too awful for Blizzard's bottom line anyhow.

 

[zoukka]

Do you guys really want the F2P version of Overwatch instead? Is that really your argument? Because I guarantee you it would be 100% more toxic and manipulative; full of even more marketing bullshit than there already is.

If you guys can't even handle the existence of cosmetic gacha I'm curious how you could even stomach the thought of F2Pwatch.

Nobody wants a f2p Overwatch.

Everyone wants a premium Overwatch.

What we got was an abomination offspring of them both. And Overwatch would make profit for Blizzard even though it was free and only had this current model of cosmetic gacha. Anyone saying otherwise is fooling themselves.

 

[Haly]

Why would Valve intentionally take a loss on TF2, lmao.

Because of Steam. Do you think they made a profit on Dota 2 from the start? No. It was a pet project that bloomed into something massive by chance and good fortune. But even if it didn't, even if people aren't dropping $80 million every year for digital hats, they would've benefited from it anyway because it would get Steam on a lot of computers, as well as fuel their digital economy experiments.

Nobody wants a f2p Overwatch.

Everyone wants a premium Overwatch.

What we got was an abomination offspring of them both.

As I said, glass half empty/half full scenario. I'm just content that, in a year, I can come back to Overwatch and play with all the new stuff that they added since they without grinding/paying. Until they change that I have no great reason to be incensed with them.

I can play waifu dress up in DOTA anyway. Check out my sick WR.

 

[twobear]

cosmetics or no, this is a crummy system

bear in mind that the overwhelming majority of 'summer games' cosmetics are things like player icons and naff sprays which are also common drops, and you're only guaranteed to get one summer item per summer lootbox; usually you'll get a summer games lootbox, open it, and get 3 common cosmetics (sprays and player icons) from the base game, two or three of which you already own, and an uncommon cosmetic from the summer games (a spray) which you also already own, all of which get converted into coins which cannot be spent on summer games cosmetics.

 

[dity]

The thing that bothers me with the quick "it's just cosmetics, just don't buy it" responses is that it doesn't acknowledge the truth in how this game was deliberately designed.

It's strange to see some people who are quick to praise the game for how well designed the shooting and maps are and yet seem to think that the loot loop being a slow grind littered with sharp spikes of disappointment was somehow a mistake. It just happened that way. The leveling grind slowing as early as level 20 and not ramping up again for another 80 levels; the numerous throw away items of little importance; the large number of palette swap skins; the fact that you can receive duplicates (even within the same box); the usual F2P loot box process of hooooolding the button down to make a meal of it, trying to create a feeling of anticipation and excitement; the deliberate sense of disappointment when you didn't get what you want with the option to buy right there in the corner, offering relief; and now the devaluation of their own in game currency. A currency that you can't even exchange directly for money and only receive in random amounts or as a small trade in for a fraction of the value of a duplicate that you're already disappointed to see in your box.

All of that is an accident?

Are we pretending it just happened that way? The shooting, the maps, the character abilities being balanced -- that was all intentional and carefully designed, but the fact that the loot boxes are particularly manipulative and intended to target people who are vulnerable to gambling addiction must be in people's heads.

There definitely wasn't a clear intention to exploit mental illness, which is what gambling addiction is. It's funny how little that gets brought up. I guess it sounds less like something you can say is someone's "own fault" when you acknowledge that what Blizzard is doing is targeting known symptoms of mental illness that are present in many and can be amplified to greater degrees in some with certain triggers that, hey, this game possesses a lot of.

It's super unsavory and gross, though, so I guess people would rather blame Blizzard's clear intentions on the people they're targeting rather than acknowledge that, in crafting their game as they have, they have made several clear choices.

Acting like it's someone's fault that Blizzard's deliberate attempts to manipulate them worked is like pretending the player is in some way responsible for how well the shooting handles. The player had nothing to do with that either.

The manipulation and exploitation was not the player's choice; it was Blizzard's.

Oh come on now, let's admit the people angry about this aren't concerned about people with gambling addictions at all. It's just because they have the chance to miss out on a cosmetic.The gambling addiction response is a scapegoat to hide that this is all really about just missing out on a digital item. Because I'm sure all the people who say they refuse to pay any money and can't play the game much but must definitely absolutely have these summer items have a gambling addiction.

 

[peakish]

So there is something I didn't understand with Overwatch's event, and I'm sorry if this has been asked already.

This isn't a 1:1 comparison obviously, but when I played some Hearthstone expansions a while back, you could open a pack from the expansion of a pack from the starter.

Would it be so unacceptable to Blizzard to have the boxes be like this? In other words, when I get a box, I can choose to open it as either a starter box or a Summer Games box. And whatever I open only has the stuff from that set. Considering the amount of shitty voice lines, sprays and player icons they made for the event, I don't think that would make things too awful.

For what it's worth they want these event items to be "rare" and not be obtained outside of them. I think that intent is undermined by being able to pay for the boxes but that's what they're saying.

 

[Diprosalic]

Overwatch has been a crazy money grab. It's totally turned me off the game. Idk if I'll ever turn it back on.

really? i never got a prompt to buy anything or spend money on it, heck i don't even know where i would have to go in game to buy something and i'm 60 hours in.
actually i don't even know why i would spend money on it.

 

[duckroll]

TF2 is free and doesn't have any of this LoL rotation nonsense you're claiming is the only other option. Says a lot about your opinion of Blizzard, though.

TF2 is free because Valve eventually transited to a F2P model after selling the game enough AND adding enough items into the economy. Really bad comparison.

A better comparison will be DOTA2.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

For what it's worth they want these event items to be "rare" and not be obtained outside of them. I think that intent is undermined by being able to pay for the boxes but that's what they're saying.

I agree about the paying part for sure. It kind of makes it a really cheap rarity to prop up.

Even if people were earning loot boxes with solely event content, I find it hard to believe they'd be common though.

 

[Z3M0G]

Every 5-10 levels you should get a voucher that allows you to select an exact item you want.

 

[zoukka]

As I said, glass half empty/half full scenario. I'm just content that, in a year, I can come back to Overwatch and play with all the new stuff that they added since they without grinding/paying. Until they change that I have no great reason to be incensed with them.

In previous blizzard games you could come back in a year and experience the full game still! And bi-annually you would get a cheap expansion that adds huge amounts of content to the game. Which was optional.

 

[IbukiLordSA]

I don't see an issue like the author of the article does. So what if you can't buy the items available in the special events? Big deal, they are purely cosmetic, what does it change to your character? Nothing. Sure I'd like a costume or 2 but then I just have to play and get lucky and if I don't get it then I will wear a different costume. In the end the character I am playing plays the same and looks the same no matter the costume I choose, apart from the weapon. It is FPS after all.

I really don't see an issue here with the way the season content was done.

 

[Odrion]

In previous blizzard games you could come back in a year and experience the full game still! And bi-annually you would get a cheap expansion that adds huge amounts of content to the game. Which was optional.

but it's not like blizzard has a history of giving away huge chunks of content for their games for free

wait

fuck

TF2 is free because Valve eventually transited to a F2P model after selling the game enough AND adding enough items into the economy. Really bad comparison.

A better comparison will be DOTA2.

I reeeeeally didn't like it when Valve was selling TF2 AND new guns separately. The move to F2P redeemed them. I mean, it didn't redeem the game because all that shit eventually encumbered the game to an extent where it was no longer good but hey!

 

[Black Hat]

How can one person be so correct. We're done here.

Its extremely manipulative and blizzard knows they could handle it differently but they decided money is important.

...and yet I have zero issue with it. Blizzard is a business not a charity.

They're giving people an opportunity to earn the skins by playing the game. That is more than enough.

The Overwatch model is way better than the many season passes offered by other titles.

I've unlocked a few skins and fine with that. It is also good that others are spending money, which will in turn ensure the game is supported well into the future.

 

[Haly]

In previous blizzard games you could come back in a year and experience the full game still! And bi-annually you would get a cheap expansion that adds huge amounts of content to the game. Which was optional.

Yeah if you ignore, like, the last decade.

When I think about how much grinding a new Hearthstone player needs to do to be competitive in today's meta I feel pretty good about the upfront fee I paid for Overwatch.

 

[Odrion]

Also the whole "I'm glad Blizzard implemented an exploitative system that takes advantage of behavioral problems because it means I get free content" argument makes you sound like a scumbag. Just letting you know for future reference!

 

[Ketch]

You should either be able to use the coins to get them or they should have special summer games coins that you can only accrue with dupes from summer game boxes or you shouldn't be able to buy summer games boxes with real money at all.


They either want them to be rare, or they want them to be rare unless you buy them for a lot of money.

 

[zoukka]

Yeah if you ignore, like, the last decade.

When I think about how much grinding a new Hearthstone player needs to do to be competitive in today's meta I feel pretty good about the upfront fee I paid for Overwatch.

Like I said, nobody wants to see the f2p OW, we already paid premium for it.

 

[dity]

In previous blizzard games you could come back in a year and experience the full game still! And bi-annually you would get a cheap expansion that adds huge amounts of content to the game. Which was optional.

Not in WoW you can't. Thar be items locked behind legacy achievements, matey.

 

[duckroll]

Like I said, nobody wants to see the f2p OW, we already paid premium for it.

I bought 20 Summer Lootboxes so far, might buy 50 if the Halloween skins are too good, thinking of upgrading to Origins Edition for the bonus skins. I think I have a problem.

 

[Syntax]

They're giving people an opportunity to earn the skins by playing the game.

No, they're not. You can't earn the Summer Games skins. You can only get lucky and have them drop from a Summer Games loot box.

Yeah if you ignore, like, the last decade.

When I think about how much grinding a new Hearthstone player needs to do to be competitive in today's meta I feel pretty good about the upfront fee I paid for Overwatch.

Hearthstone is free to play and you can use money or gold for everything in the game. Overwatch is buy to play and you can't use gold for the Summer Games items.

Edit: Actually, I'm wrong. Some heroes in HS are cash only.

 

[Haly]

Also the whole "I'm glad Blizzard implemented an exploitative system that takes advantage of behavioral problems because it means I get free content" argument makes you sound like a fucking scumbag. Just letting you know for future reference!

When exploitative business models is the norm, I prefer a less exploitative one (and am thankful if I get it) over one that's more, especially if the more exploitative business model is in line with my expectations.

This is like the Hillary versus Bernie quandary where Bernie's ideals are clearly preferable but impractical and farfetched. As much as I'd like to believe in purity of values I have to accept that it exists only in fantasy and that you're better off relishing what victories you can achieve. People think that we can somehow, by sheer force of will, return to those halcyon days of endless patches, free content, unrestricted modding, definite expansions, DRM free games, upfront costs, personal servers, and so on and so forth. But we can no more return to those days than we can return to a pre-9/11 world when it comes to air travel. Pandora's box is open. All you can do is live with it as best you can.

Hearthstone is free to play and you can use money or gold for everything in the game. Overwatch is buy to play and you can't use gold for the Summer Games items.

Edit: Actually, I'm wrong. Some heroes in HS are cash only.

I'd rather pay a one-time fee to be on even competitive footing with every other player than having to pay a recurring time/money tax, with interest, to be on even competitive footing. I mean, before they introduced rotations (which pissed off its fair share of players), a new F2P player was given the nigh insurmountable task of accumulating a card base that rivals that of an established player. Basically, it gave you the ultimatum: "Give me money or be at a competitive disadvantage for the foreseeable future". Is this a good new player experience to you? It isn't to me. Not at all.

This is what I hate the most, really. "Free" that's not truly free. "Free" that comes at the cost of effectiveness. As a moderately competitive gamer, this deception is what I hate the most of all modern gaming business practices.

 

[zoukka]

I bought 20 Summer Lootboxes so far, might buy 50 if the Halloween skins are too good, thinking of upgrading to Origins Edition for the bonus skins. I think I have a problem.

Best part is the dupe system that awards you coins which you can't use on special event skins.

So you need to buy then over and over again in every special event.

. All you can do is live with it as best you can.

And that's the difference between you and me. You accept the ass pounding because you feel you are powerless against it. I don't.

 

[duckroll]

Best part is the dupe system that awards you coins which you can't use on special event skins.

So you need to buy then over and over again in every special event.

It's okay, we can use our coins to buy the new Legendary Dva Emote and the new Legendary Reinhardt Skin!

See! Blizzard cares about us! They love their fans!

/me crawls on the floor and licks crumbs.

 

[uncleniccius]

Overwatch has been a crazy money grab. It's totally turned me off the game. Idk if I'll ever turn it back on.

Firstly, it is a game made by a developer who want to make money, I don't know why people are surprised. I do think money grab is a ridiculous way to put it though.

Secondly, imo they've gone about this in a good way. This stuff makes no difference to the game. If you want the skins desperately you can pay, but it really makes no difference. They're giving free content and subsidising it this way. And all the stuff can be unlocked without spending a penny. The only thing I can understand the issue with is not being able to buy the seasonal stuff. On the flip side though, if they want them to be limited it kind of makes sense.


The game deals with this so much better than other games. You get free post launch content, you can unlock all of the skins in game and because of that nobody can buy stuff to win.

 

[Haly]

And that's the difference between you and me. You accept the ass pounding because you feel you are powerless against it. I don't.

When you affect widespread change in the gaming industry with regards to business practices you let me know. In the meantime I'll remain, if not happy, at least content and satisfied.

 

[The Driver]

The thing that bothers me with the quick "it's just cosmetics, just don't buy it" responses is that it doesn't acknowledge the truth in how this game was deliberately designed.

It's strange to see some people who are quick to praise the game for how well designed the shooting and maps are and yet seem to think that the loot loop being a slow grind littered with sharp spikes of disappointment was somehow a mistake. It just happened that way. The leveling grind slowing as early as level 20 and not ramping up again for another 80 levels; the numerous throw away items of little importance; the large number of palette swap skins; the fact that you can receive duplicates (even within the same box); the usual F2P loot box process of hooooolding the button down to make a meal of it, trying to create a feeling of anticipation and excitement; the deliberate sense of disappointment when you didn't get what you want with the option to buy right there in the corner, offering relief; and now the devaluation of their own in game currency. A currency that you can't even exchange directly for money and only receive in random amounts or as a small trade in for a fraction of the value of a duplicate that you're already disappointed to see in your box.

All of that is an accident?

Are we pretending it just happened that way? The shooting, the maps, the character abilities being balanced -- that was all intentional and carefully designed, but the fact that the loot boxes are particularly manipulative and intended to target people who are vulnerable to gambling addiction must be in people's heads.

There definitely wasn't a clear intention to exploit mental illness, which is what gambling addiction is. It's funny how little that gets brought up. I guess it sounds less like something you can say is someone's "own fault" when you acknowledge that what Blizzard is doing is targeting known symptoms of mental illness that are present in many and can be amplified to greater degrees in some with certain triggers that, hey, this game possesses a lot of.

It's super unsavory and gross, though, so I guess people would rather blame Blizzard's clear intentions on the people they're targeting rather than acknowledge that, in crafting their game as they have, they have made several clear choices.

Acting like it's someone's fault that Blizzard's deliberate attempts to manipulate them worked is like pretending the player is in some way responsible for how well the shooting handles. The player had nothing to do with that either.

The manipulation and exploitation was not the player's choice; it was Blizzard's.

I love the base game, but this is my thought process as well. Never spent or will spend a single dime on this slots machine supply drop/lootbox/battlepack/req pack shit.

It really is night and day to see how Blizzard and all these other AAA developers can show genuine care to the fans and attention to the gameplay but give no fucks about the shady shit they are pulling to make money.

"Pls mister, can I have another *SLOT MACHINE BOX*?"

"That'll be a hour and a half of your time....or you can slide me $2 and I'll give you one!"