-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Why Rebooting Star Fox Isnt Easy For Nintendo (Emily Rogers)
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
lol, i liked it too.
Because the 'winning formula' doesn't work every time. Silent Hill Origins and Homecoming tried to recapture the horror of old with hospitals, radio static and fog, but ended up as boring cliche. Even Star Fox Assault was criticised as being "Star Fox 64 with annoying ground segments"
Star Fox has a lot going behind presentation and story, but gameplay-wise, on-rail 3D SHUMP is kind of a hard sale to the masses these days.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Seriously just make the flight/on foot formula of Uprising a genre in itself. It's the only way I'd play Star-Fox probably.
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
.
Discotheque
Banned
nintendo won't capitalize on anything on the wii u. they've already made a few quality games for it.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
I always thought you were smarter than this. Seriously, if Star Fox U played like Star Fox 64 I wouldn't buy that shit. If I were stuck on rails and couldn't explore the world you created then what's the point.
Yes, open-world would be expensive but it could just as well be fairly large, explorable stages and I wouldn't complain.
All of which seem to fall under one of three categories: Platformers, mini-games and quirky shit. They need to expand their horizons a bit.
Candescence
Member
If I was rebooting Star Fox, I'd eschew the on-rails gameplay for the flying in favor of something a little more akin to say, a mix of Rogue Squadron, Freespace 2 and Strike Suit Zero, with a harder sci-fi bent, but while retaining all the crazy shit that happens in the series, which we can chalk up to Andross being an insane genius. The ground-based stuff would some slight Mass Effect elements, but with a greater focus on mobility over cover-shooting. Add in some darker elements, but make it mature enough for adults to appreciate and not too mature for younger players. 'Edgy' bullshit like in DmC is right out.
Have the whole thing start with Fox and co (except Peppy, who is still working with James, right up until James' death) still in flight academy, learn the mechanics, and when the team graduates, Andross' invasion begins, causing General Pepper to bring the team together as a special unit to turn the tide. Have Krystal be in the team from the start, being a transfer student from Cerinia, and maybe a few extra new/existing characters, too. Slippy doesn't pilot, he's more helpful as a mechanic and providing intel during battle. Explain Andross' invasion forces being mostly clones, and when we do see the ape first-hand, he's clearly gone straight off the deep end and we can see how truly cruel and vindictive he can be (for example, he injects Star Wolf's pilots with explosive nanomachines to prevent them from betraying him). And other stuff as well, I suppose.
It's just a thing, I suppose. How I'd design it would probably be way different from the rest of you guys.
Have the whole thing start with Fox and co (except Peppy, who is still working with James, right up until James' death) still in flight academy, learn the mechanics, and when the team graduates, Andross' invasion begins, causing General Pepper to bring the team together as a special unit to turn the tide. Have Krystal be in the team from the start, being a transfer student from Cerinia, and maybe a few extra new/existing characters, too. Slippy doesn't pilot, he's more helpful as a mechanic and providing intel during battle. Explain Andross' invasion forces being mostly clones, and when we do see the ape first-hand, he's clearly gone straight off the deep end and we can see how truly cruel and vindictive he can be (for example, he injects Star Wolf's pilots with explosive nanomachines to prevent them from betraying him). And other stuff as well, I suppose.
It's just a thing, I suppose. How I'd design it would probably be way different from the rest of you guys.
Teletraan1
Banned
They should rip off EVE Online for the next Star Fox. The satisfaction of killing some asshole from Space Dynamics Co. Ltd. that ganks you with a Slippy-esque pilot avatar will make it all too sweet.
Refreshment.01
Member
Article falls apart when you consider that a product like the Wonderful 101 exists and it is published by Nintendo.
Is a matter of resources really.
Is a matter of resources really.
I could reboot the shit out of this and give it wider appeal at the same time, hire me Nintendo. I'd pump proper budget into it and make it the Star Wars of Star Fox games in scope, epic space battles featuring thousands of craft. We'd have THE GREAT FOX fully modeled in-game, interiors and all, which will act as your hub for missions (you could actually fly your ship into it and disembark, without any loading screens), and which you'll be able to upgrade aesthetically with stuff you earn in missions. There will be a critical co-op component, which you could play online. There will be a mission editor, where players can take various templates for planets and triggers, and set to making custom epic battles which they can share online in virtual reality missions which can also earn you some fuzz.
The core gameplay will be similar to classic Star Fox, and you'll get tanks too. But the difference will be in scale and depth of customization options. I want the ship to be customized ala Armored Core, with its various mechanical features giving benefits to the player based on their combat preferences.
I WILL MAKE IT NINTENDO FOR 40 MILLION. And yes it's awesome I don't care what anybody else thinks on this score! :rocksbackandforthinsanely:
The core gameplay will be similar to classic Star Fox, and you'll get tanks too. But the difference will be in scale and depth of customization options. I want the ship to be customized ala Armored Core, with its various mechanical features giving benefits to the player based on their combat preferences.
I WILL MAKE IT NINTENDO FOR 40 MILLION. And yes it's awesome I don't care what anybody else thinks on this score! :rocksbackandforthinsanely:
Star Fox Rogue Squadron...yes please.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Inaba worked on R-type Leo. I know it's not a rail shooter. And the Shmup section in tw101 is actually pretty good. Not sure why starfox needs to be exactly a rail shooter anyway.
Candescence
Member
Well, I wouldn't mind stealing some of those ideas for mine
But I wonder - why make it a single package? Why not an episodic series? Considering Star Fox's increasing focus on narrative, it would make sense, one episode for each planet with multiple missions, provide a new multiplayer map with each episode, be able to receive feedback from fans and improve on the gameplay over time, and if the whole thing turns out to be a flop, well, it hasn't lost much money in the first place, which is important when dealing with a more 'niche' franchise like Star Fox, because the risk drops dramatically.
Why go with the Star Wars of gaming when you can try for Star Trek, Babalyon 5 or Battlestar Galactica? lol.
Well, I wouldn't mind stealing some of those ideas for mine
But I wonder - why make it a single package? Why not an episodic series? Considering Star Fox's increasing focus on narrative, it would make sense, one episode for each planet with multiple missions, provide a new multiplayer map with each episode, be able to receive feedback from fans and improve on the gameplay over time, and if the whole thing turns out to be a flop, well, it hasn't lost much money in the first place, which is important when dealing with a more 'niche' franchise like Star Fox, because the risk drops dramatically.
Why go with the Star Wars of gaming when you can try for Star Trek, Babalyon 5 or Battlestar Galactica? lol.
I mean, they can make it 'episodic add-on content', but I would like to kick it off with a full, big-budget space shooter game as centerpiece, showcasing what Wii U can do (the gamepad acting as your command module on your arwing), and its visual prowess (there will be an engine where thousands of ships with massive draw distance is the focused goal). The scale is particularly important, as I want players to be able to pull into GREAT FOX and disembark and explore the ship (and customize it as they like) or enter some of your opponents ships stealthily for inside take-downs.
Then, after this centerpiece game was done, they could make episodic packs like you're talking about, evoking the golden age of 1950s space odyssey serials, with a crazier adventure every DLC
Supermanisdead
Member
Star Fox has one of the worst ratios of good to bad games in Nintendo's first party line up. Like, it would be nice if Kamiya made a Star Fox game, but that's because Kamiya makes awesome games, not because Star Fox deserves it.
Such lame BS excuses. Choose an audience and go for it. Batman was a comical, near childish movie series for awhile and then Nolan decides to do a complete 180 with it and a whole new audience was reeled in.
And if there are no competitive game modes then implement them. Jesus, Nintendo, use your imagination or allow someone to use the franchise that has one.
And if there are no competitive game modes then implement them. Jesus, Nintendo, use your imagination or allow someone to use the franchise that has one.
This is a very weak argument. The image of a game can be changed to adapt to small children if they want, it's an issue of art style and art direction. Look at Wind Waker, after OoT and MM, games which are not "kid friendly" when it comes to art style (the Adult timeline is a creepy place), they came out with an art style that was far more attractive to kids love of vibrant colours and cartooney looking character models (and I mean by look, I don't mean by substance of game mechanics).
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
The problem with StarFox isn't really coming up with exciting gameplay so much as it is building an appealing brand.
This is actually one of those cases where much more planning and effort needs to be put into design and market research regarding artistic presentation, production quality and worldbuilding, whereas evolving and expanding the core mechanics seems to be rather straightforward.
Even if we ignore the fact that these aren't Nintendo's strongest qualities (except for a select few franchises), we still need to come up with a strong, easily marketable concept to tie the series together.
Hence my earlier suggestion: TaleSpin in Space!
I'd love to hear other suggestions for a concept for the brand.
edit: to put it bluntly, I think a good approach to reviving the series should start by coming up with a cool and marketable answer to the question: "Why are there cartoon animals in my StarWars?"
This is actually one of those cases where much more planning and effort needs to be put into design and market research regarding artistic presentation, production quality and worldbuilding, whereas evolving and expanding the core mechanics seems to be rather straightforward.
Even if we ignore the fact that these aren't Nintendo's strongest qualities (except for a select few franchises), we still need to come up with a strong, easily marketable concept to tie the series together.
Hence my earlier suggestion: TaleSpin in Space!
I'd love to hear other suggestions for a concept for the brand.
edit: to put it bluntly, I think a good approach to reviving the series should start by coming up with a cool and marketable answer to the question: "Why are there cartoon animals in my StarWars?"
fabricated backlash
Member
Star Fox's biggest problem is it's design which inherently was made for machines which struggled to display overly detailed characters, and bright coloured anthropomorphic animals steered clear of the "vidyagames endager youths" scares.
Despite loving SF64 and even SFA, Fox itself was always my least liked Nintendo Character. I even like SLippy more.
Despite loving SF64 and even SFA, Fox itself was always my least liked Nintendo Character. I even like SLippy more.
Astro Monster
Banned
Who said anything about a reboot?
Just make a sequel to Star Fox 64 or the original.
Just make a sequel to Star Fox 64 or the original.
Brianimaniac
Banned
Whether it has the appeal of a Mario or Zelda or not, you needs diversity of titles so people can look at your platform and see an actual library and not just a game here and there. If you aren't committed to doing that, you have no business being a platform holder.
Astro Monster
Banned
If Nintendo do eventually release a powerful new console. I can't think of a better Nintendo franchise to showcase hardware power and visuals.
Star Fox games have always been some of the best looking games on each platform.
Star Fox games have always been some of the best looking games on each platform.
i don't think it would need a new angle, at least on the gameplay side. just the SF64 formula in HD pretty much. if done right it could be a blast. all about what they could do visually - 3DW and MK8 give a good idea of what's possible. could it be done on a budget where it would be worthwhile for them? i don't know, but keeping the faithful happy has to be a core aim for the wii U now. as long as something like star fox can break even it should be a go.
i don't even care about a multiplayer let alone online if there was more chance something could get made. i always associated star fox with it's single player experience and the memorable characters, music.
i don't even care about a multiplayer let alone online if there was more chance something could get made. i always associated star fox with it's single player experience and the memorable characters, music.
Meh, I'm with it. I understand that it's a more difficult sell than some of Nintendo's other properties but I would pay good money for a reboot done right. Make the campaign 4 player online co-op (with video chat on the game pad). Make some straight forward rail shooter stages, broken up with some "arena" style stages where you've got a huge area to explore and you can land your Arwing to grab a tank, or take care of something on foot (ala Squadron) etc.
Keep the PvP, but make it 16 player and incorporate elements of the campaign arena maps. Keep the video window too. It can act as the gimmick Emily suggests is necessary for the franchise.
Keep the PvP, but make it 16 player and incorporate elements of the campaign arena maps. Keep the video window too. It can act as the gimmick Emily suggests is necessary for the franchise.
RumblingRosco
Member
I'm not calling the Occulus Rift gimmicky, but it would be a perfect fit for 1st person Star Fox action. 1st person view from inside the Arwing? Yep. Do it Nintendo. Or, let someone else do it.
...What does that mean "Star Fox is hard to reboot?"; its the easiest franchise Nintendo has to reboot.
Just take the flight combat from Star Fox 64 and make it ether an online-multiplayer game with tons of modes and Wii U gamepad features (touch the screen to launch smart-bombs, using the map to see other ships around you, easy usage of the advanced moves, ect), or make it an open world space game.
How that would work is having you start out as ether Fox or Falco with a standard ship to use, and have you be able to visit 4 different planets to start. After you beat the main bosses on the planets, you get upgrades to your ship and can explore deep space, where there are main planets to visit and mini-planets ala R&C A Crack in Time's Moons where you can explore and gain even more upgrades for your ship. The best part would be that the game will have the option for a co-op mode in single player, with one player as Fox and the other as Falco and be able to do what ever they want (as the single player will have the TV and player two will have the gamepad).
There is so much that could be done with Star Fox, but Nintendo refuses to do it because they just want safe money (explaining the over reliance on Mario/Zelda/Kart).
Just take the flight combat from Star Fox 64 and make it ether an online-multiplayer game with tons of modes and Wii U gamepad features (touch the screen to launch smart-bombs, using the map to see other ships around you, easy usage of the advanced moves, ect), or make it an open world space game.
How that would work is having you start out as ether Fox or Falco with a standard ship to use, and have you be able to visit 4 different planets to start. After you beat the main bosses on the planets, you get upgrades to your ship and can explore deep space, where there are main planets to visit and mini-planets ala R&C A Crack in Time's Moons where you can explore and gain even more upgrades for your ship. The best part would be that the game will have the option for a co-op mode in single player, with one player as Fox and the other as Falco and be able to do what ever they want (as the single player will have the TV and player two will have the gamepad).
There is so much that could be done with Star Fox, but Nintendo refuses to do it because they just want safe money (explaining the over reliance on Mario/Zelda/Kart).
it was rebooted one or 2 times already lol
I would never play with you >:C
To me Emily's first statement starts in a different direction I will take.
Who talked about reboot and selling millions? Not me.
I think Starfox should make a return not to seek to be an A-tiers franchise, but to enhance the (presumably) Wii U library with a genre of game it hasn't, and start building the user base for action/shooters games.
Once again, it's Nintendo's role to built the user base for its systems, for all kind of gamers.
There is no shame to release a new Starfox game as a niche game, as long as it end up bringing new gamers on board, enhance possible sales of other shooters like Nanostay, and bring other developers to release their games alongside it.
Who talked about reboot and selling millions? Not me.
I think Starfox should make a return not to seek to be an A-tiers franchise, but to enhance the (presumably) Wii U library with a genre of game it hasn't, and start building the user base for action/shooters games.
Once again, it's Nintendo's role to built the user base for its systems, for all kind of gamers.
There is no shame to release a new Starfox game as a niche game, as long as it end up bringing new gamers on board, enhance possible sales of other shooters like Nanostay, and bring other developers to release their games alongside it.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Well, StarFox does have brand recognition through Smash Bros.
Well...Nintendo tried I guess?
They really need a developer that 'gets' what made Star Fox great to begin with to develop the next one, so that way you wont have the series just make another promising but flawed game (even though I thought Star Fox Command was a good game and Star Fox Assault to be quite fun from what I played of it at a friends house).
The series has so much potential, and for it to be wasted by doing nothing with the series for at least 8 years now (not counting Star Fox 64 3D, that was a remake, not a new game), is really messed up
.Baron von Loathsome
Member
DS....DS
Star Fox 64 got a 3DS port a few months after the system launched.
I'm a Smash Bros scumbag who actually does want a highly stylish, Platinum Games Star Fox action game. Make the characters look more sleek and animated, take itself very seriously, and have kickass fast paced action gameplay, with incredibly stylish shooter segments throughout the game.
Ditto for Captain Falcon and F-Zero.
You could combine them both and I would give no shits. All my money.
Ditto for Captain Falcon and F-Zero.
You could combine them both and I would give no shits. All my money.
Well...Nintendo tried I guess?
They really need a developer that 'gets' what made Star Fox great to begin with to develop the next one, so that way you wont have the series just make another promising but flawed game (even though I thought Star Fox Command was a good game and Star Fox Assault to be quite fun from what I played of it at a friends house).
The series has so much potential, and for it to be wasted by doing nothing with the series for at least 8 years now (not counting Star Fox 64 3D, that was a remake, not a new game), is really messed up
I hated Command, the gameplay was awful, maybe if steel diver is a succes the next star fox will be a multiplayer online battle kind of game in a galactic tournament to decide universe peace.
legacyzero
Banned
All they have to do is look at how amazing Star Fox 64 was. No need to reboot. Just give me something a bit like that, but maybe with procedurally generated levels?
Star Fox 64 is still the best entry in the series. I couldn't put it down!
Star Fox 64 is still the best entry in the series. I couldn't put it down!
spyroflame0487
Member
Tell that to Wonderful 101.
Just make an HD remake of the original Star Fox like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77uVRz7RzjQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77uVRz7RzjQ
The Horror the horror
Banned
It's simple.
A reboot implies a fresh start to an IP, down to its conceptual level and fundamental underpinnings. If the idea of playing as furry animals presents itself as an obstacle to its mainstream viability, then simply can the furry animals and replace them with human characters.
No one give a shit about the characters themselves, outside perhaps of their goofy space chat but that alone doesn't necessitate their current appearance. Gamers care about the ships, the space exploration, and the interstellar combat missions.
A reboot implies a fresh start to an IP, down to its conceptual level and fundamental underpinnings. If the idea of playing as furry animals presents itself as an obstacle to its mainstream viability, then simply can the furry animals and replace them with human characters.
No one give a shit about the characters themselves, outside perhaps of their goofy space chat but that alone doesn't necessitate their current appearance. Gamers care about the ships, the space exploration, and the interstellar combat missions.