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Why the "digital is the future" argument is B.S.

on release day it takes me 0 seconds to download a game on steam. Its called pre loading

Games don't need to be fully installed to play either. Smart developers can give you a 10 or 15 minute download that will hve the start of the game and the rest will download as you go.

as for storage the xbox one accepts external drives so you can get cheap 3TB drives. you can fit about 70 games on that

But I don't often buy games at release day. I often just buy games when they go on sale, so there isn't really a chance to preload.

If they can implement the play as you download thing in the next consoles that definitely will help, but my internet is slow so I hope my download speed can catch up with my gameplay. It would suck if it's like streaming a movie and my game just stops to buffer or something.

My shelf currently holds about 500 games. Also I would never plug an external drive into my console.


Also this sounds like a lot of stuff I have to do just to make digital my future. All I have to do for physical right now is buy the disc, and pop it into my console. Shouldn't digital be even easier than that? I can understand why digital is the present for music because I can download songs almost instantly which makes it easier than going to the store. Also the file size is small where I can basically have all the songs I care to have on my phone or other device. Additionally, I can choose just the songs I want instead of buying an entire album. Shouldn't games be offering benefits on par with digital music first before we start talking digital games are the future?
 
I don't see any need for arguing over it, but digital is the future for one reason only---that's the way media publishers can make the most money.

Lesser costs than printing and shipping physical goods. Lesser used sales, loaning etc.

Once they go the way of music (and to a lesser extent ebooks) and realize they can make more by selling digital goods for less than current physical goods we'll see movies and games move more into digital sales as well.

Personally, as long as the price is right, I'm all for digital goods. I don't collect things. I seldom replay games or re-read books--I do rewatch movies and listen to albums over and over though. I'm a bit OCD about having crap cluttering up my home. Add that with the instant gratification of buying and immediately downloading a digital good and that's very appealing to me.

But the price has to be a decent bit lower than current physical good prices since I'm giving up the ability to sell a physical good to recoup some cost after I'm done with it. Especially for games since I sell pretty much everything after beating it as games just don't have replay value for me at all. Once the credits roll, I'm done with a game 95% of the time.
 
No they don't. They think they do, so that's what they tell you they need.

When did developers tell us, that they need DRM?

To me it sounds like, it is something being put in their mouth.


I wouldn't be surpirsed, if it happend, may be once a year, but I don't see the big publishers trying to convert us or even argue for it.
 
For consumers and for video games, there might be a time when physical media is no longer necessary, maybe if consoles die off
 
Really? Not the part about being able to store and carry thousands of songs on a single device as opposed to switching out discs? I think shedding the need for physical media is the strongest reason digital is gaining ground in every type of media.

Being able to download and carry thousands of songs.
Being able to download and save (or stream) a massive library of TV shows or movies on one harddrive/box
Being able to have your entire library of games at your fingertips without the hassle of discs/cases

The biggest proponents of digital games on handhelds, for example, always cite the ability to carry their entire portable library without bringing around a mass of cartridges as the primary benefit.

this is/would be it for me. the convenience of using my internet to download and install my games and using my computer to hold them. no discs, no boxes. nothing to move or carry around except the PC.
 
Superb post OP. I highly agree with you.

I put he whole "digital is the future" argument next to the whole "iOS/Android/Mobile is the future argument". It's not an argument, its a wish and fantasy.

Although on the former I would argue that a full digital future benefits the developers and publishers more than the consumer, I would say that there are also limitations to physical media (like data transfer rates that do indeed prove a bottleneck in game development), however these limitations I believe will be solved more with new advances in physical media rather than an all digital future.
 
Digital means more control to companies and more expensive games with less competition and less choices for the consumer. Always fight DRM...
 
People said the same thing about music.

like 13 years later and CDs are still selling like hot cakes.
That would not be correct...

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And that also means overall sales are way down for the music industry. Can we stop spreading this bullshit already?
 
on release day it takes me 0 seconds to download a game on steam. Its called pre loading

Games don't need to be fully installed to play either. Smart developers can give you a 10 or 15 minute download that will hve the start of the game and the rest will download as you go.

as for storage the xbox one accepts external drives so you can get cheap 3TB drives. you can fit about 70 games on that

Everyone preorders and nobody ever buys on day 2 right?
 
I'm mostly a PC gamer, where digital is not the future, but the present, and has been like that for quite a while now, so it's a bit fun to watch the consoles going through the same growing pains as the PC now, where they try to figure out how to handle this. But they do need to figure out to handle it.

Games are software, and software is really never finished, so to lock them onto a physical disc at release is going to work worse and worse, when games continue to get more complex. Which we already see on how depedent on patches games are on console also now.

But it would be nice if disc based games continue to be available as an option. Even though software isn't finished, it's often (always) abandoned at some point, which is a point where physical copies might surve a purpose.
 
Another curveball in this argument is that OP forgot that console disc games are in fact DRM-ed and can't be copied freely. Sure, you can re-sell them, but they are still DRM-ed and you need to wait for someone to crack their DRM so that you can make backups of them, which is just the case with DRM-ed downloaded games just the same, on console or PC.

I haven't seen many people claim that not being able to make backups is the problem with console discs. I've never made a backup of a console game in my life and its never bothered me at all, the reason being that I don't need the publishers permission to plug in my old machines and play.

So sure, DRM already exists on consoles, but that's just semantics, and something that didn't bother most people as long as it was only passive- it stopped you making backup copies but realistically its not like we make games compilations any more like we did with tapes, you could play it or trade it to your heart's content and there was nothing they could do about it. it's those rights being enacted upon actively beyond your control, blocking your access to those games and the potential of servers being switched off and your machine bricking itself as soon as it is convenient for the manufacturer that people have an issue with.
 
Console gaming seems to be the last bastion of physical media. I can't remember the last time I bought something on a disc. Maybe about a year ago?
Really? I even buy many PC games on disc (even when they ultimately use Steam). If I'm going to pay the same price (or less) I should at least have something to show for it.

I always go physical for movies and games.

I don't think music is comparable here simply because people will listen to music across a wide range of devices in many different areas. I don't play games in my car or while jogging, obviously, but music can be used in those situations and many others. Music files are also tiny and can be downloaded quickly without eating up space on your hard drive.

The Vita situation is the worst for DD in this regard. Memory card prices are insane and limited in size while games themselves require a lot of space in order to run. If you chose to go fully digital you'd have a very difficult time managing your library.
 
How can anyone say it is not the "future"? We saw Microsoft's original plans for Xbox One, Sony has embraced day one digital, streaming video games with Gaikai, and PS+, and even ultra conservative Nintendo is embracing the digital future. It doesn't mean future consoles will be digital only, but there is a pretty big push by the platform holders in digital's direction.
 
Oracle found out that "digital being the future" did not stop EU courts from letting people resell their digital licenses.

So yeah...
 
Where I live retailers screw consumers to an order of 40% above what games should be priced, PC digital gave a much better alternative, so much better that retail games are a vast minority to my game purchases. So I would be happy with a digital future, as long as it's like PC. Console digital as it stands is worse than retail here.
 
Are you kidding me? You've never seen a Redbox machine or seen people with Netflix subscriptions? Do you even remember when Netflix announced they were going digital only and their subscriber base went absolutely crazy?

Redbox only ever seem to have shitty games and all the good ones are always permanently rented out, especially for PS3. The only way to really rent good games these days is Gamefly.
 
So you're saying it's really popular.

Maybe, but the selection of good games sucks, especially compared to the movies. Redbox is useless if you want to rent anything a few years old or something that isn't the latest shooter.
 
No they don't. They think they do, so that's what they tell you they need.

Imagine a DRM free world where you could download a copy of a digital game that your friend made along with hundreds of other people. How does the developer now make money without any sort of protection in place.

What's worse than the idea that people think a DRM free industry would work is that people think developers aren't entitled to any sort of protection at all.
 
I Also never understood why the digital is the future people can't improve digital services without killing off everything else. They sound like pr people harping whatever their favorite company tells them.
 
1.) Reasons:

  1. The middle man
  2. Creation
  3. Packaging
  4. Shipping

2.) DRM is already on discs. The only conversation we are having is physical vs dd. Anything past this point is subjective akin to people preferring one controller over the other.

3.) Yes.

4.) Steam does work. The market reacted because games are still going to be $60. If/when games drop to $5 pop or we all just convert to PS+ style subscriptions people won't care about used games.
This guy knows what's up.
 
Digital-Only is the future for every game until that game is in the past and only exists on the personal storage media of a small minority of archival gamers who pray their libraries never corrupt or are mistakenly wiped.

These things are supposed supplement and compliment one another to a reasonable degree.
 
I certainly agree with the why can't we have both. It seems most natural. Physical and Digital both have their own strengths and weakness. The problem I have is consumers and companies are obsessed with digital right now. It is kind of frustrating because they are overhyping it without truly understanding it.

Take the book industry for example. Textbooks are incredibly expensive and heavy to lug around. Naturally physical textbooks should be a thing of the past with etextbooks being much more portable and convenient. However this isn't the case, digital textbooks are being slow to be adopted by both teachers and students alike. The issue is that beside convenience what does a digital copy provide? For most publishing companies nothing. The truth is consumers aren't looking for a convenient textbook. They are looking for a cheaper and more effective learning. Publishers are so caught up in digital that they are missing what consumers want, which is why there is such low adoption among students. In a students mind what advantage does an etextbook provide? Certainly not enough to justify a full purchase when I can rent a physical book from Cheggs or Amazon and save 100 dollars.

So what about the rapid spread of digital music. It is simply digital music caught on so fast because it created a better and more comprehensive mixtape at a lower cost. That is what consumers wanted. Consumers were frustrated with the 10-15 dollar pricetag of a CD with only 1 or 2 good songs. Also consumers really liked combining their favorite songs and were always disappointed when they reached the physical devices limit. Digital Music filled a role and offered a better price, yet even with these advantages CDs and Vinyls still exist.

Why didn't blockbuster stick around? Because people generally watch a movie over movie night. It didn't make sense to pay 5 dollars for a full week rental only to forget about said movie and rack up enormous fees.

Digital Products need to solve a problem that consumers are having. They need to provide their own positive qualities rather than being a straight copy of the physical property.
 
I believe that, eventually, all entertainment mediums will be bought and accessed digitally. Of course it will. HOWEVER, my problem lies with people talking about the next generation of consoles like digital will be the only way. This is ridiculous. Physical media will not be non-existant in 10 years. That's stupid. Bandwidth and storage options are not advancing fast enough to make physical media obsolete.

I'm fine with digital. What I DON'T want is for digital DRM to infiltrate my physical media. I don't care if, in 40 years, every entertainment medium will be digital. In 40 years I won't remember or care about the Xbox One and PS4. This generation will continue to see physical media as an important factor, and that wouldn't have changed if Microsoft had went the way it did on physical DRM.

If we're talking about this next generation, digital is not the future - it's merely a future. A choice. And I love that.
 
In this thread we learn that people fail to recognize trends. Yeah your internet might suck. It might not in 10 years, and if it does physical media will still exist for you. Or you will become a math problem and they will just cut you out.
 
I do agree that eventually, digital will probably be the dominant form of videogames.However, touting current policies and consumer restrictions as part of the same "inevitable" package is what is gathering the ire of several people, and is also the crux of the problem. Want an all digital future? Get to work on fixing the crappy parts of DD and then we'll talk, cause those problems aren't going to fix themselves, and ignoring them/pretending they don't exist or aren't a big deal? Bad idea, cause that was basically the entire M$ strategy, and I hear that didn't go too well.

The convenience of digital is a big deal for some, but not an outright replacement of all the other benefits physical currently offers for many others. When digital devs actually come up with a marketshare winning combo, that will be something, but they've got a lot of work ahead of them to get there.
 
But do you have a sales breakdown for hotcakes?
No, but we can contrast subscription royalties -

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With terrestrial radio (in two thousand and fucking THIRTEEN) -

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simply to be aware of the juxtaposition. Digital is not the future for music so far. It blows my mind that anyone would say ANYTHING in music is doing well except for the companies distributing it - that's where the real money is. And all the same, that's where Valve makes their money.

They just don't make people take an 85% pay cut. In fact last I checked, digital revenues are significantly higher than that of physical media.

Please, no more music is doing better than ever posts. My blood pressure can't handle the absurdity.
 
While I personally think an "all digital future" will happen at some point

I think people naive to think it will happen in the next 10 or even 20 years personally

As others have said there are serious internet infrastructure problems that need addressing/updgrading within First world countries, going digital only will alienate quite a lot of people who have trouble using 100+ gb of their 200 gb monthly bandwidth cap to download 2 - 3 games

Anyone who thinks the US internet infrastructure is going to be "fixed" in the next ten years is out of their minds, US ISPs are dinosaurs, always have been tbh

They have no incentive to improve their service offerings

Unless google fiber takes off (which I hope it does honestly) every other US ISP is crap, comcast likely the worst

So yes digital will probably be the future but not for a good while longer than a lot of people seem to be implying

If it matters I much prefer physical media myself
 
No they don't. They think they do, so that's what they tell you they need.

Of course they do. DRM = Digital Rights Management = any method to make sure that you're allowed to run a given software/digital content.
Without DRM, you could just give free copies of your game to all your friends. Any feature that makes sure that you cannot do that is DRM (including controlling which files you can or cannot access on your console).
 
When I say that "digital is the future", and it is, I don't mean that in some utopian way. There are always trade-offs, there are good and bad things about it, but I do believe it's inevitable. It just makes too much sense for developers and publishers, and it makes a lot of sense for consumers who are increasingly moving toward the digital future in other forms of entertainment. And the actual sales trends in the video game industry do show that the market is going there.
 
I certainly agree with the why can't we have both. It seems most natural. Physical and Digital both have their own strengths and weakness. The problem I have is consumers and companies are obsessed with digital right now. It is kind of frustrating because they are overhyping it without truly understanding it.

Take the book industry for example. Textbooks are incredibly expensive and heavy to lug around. Naturally physical textbooks should be a thing of the past with etextbooks being much more portable and convenient. However this isn't the case, digital textbooks are being slow to be adopted by both teachers and students alike. The issue is that beside convenience what does a digital copy provide? For most publishing companies nothing. The truth is consumers aren't looking for a convenient textbook. They are looking for a cheaper and more effective learning. Publishers are so caught up in digital that they are missing what consumers want, which is why there is such low adoption among students. In a students mind what advantage does an etextbook provide? Certainly not enough to justify a full purchase when I can rent a physical book from Cheggs or Amazon and save 100 dollars.

So what about the rapid spread of digital music. It is simply digital music caught on so fast because it created a better and more comprehensive mixtape at a lower cost. That is what consumers wanted. Consumers were frustrated with the 10-15 dollar pricetag of a CD with only 1 or 2 good songs. Also consumers really liked combining their favorite songs and were always disappointed when they reached the physical devices limit. Digital Music filled a role and offered a better price, yet even with these advantages CDs and Vinyls still exist.

Why didn't blockbuster stick around? Because people generally watch a movie over movie night. It didn't make sense to pay 5 dollars for a full week rental only to forget about said movie and rack up enormous fees.

Digital Products need to solve a problem that consumers are having. They need to provide their own positive qualities rather than being a straight copy of the physical property.

Good post, I agree entirely that digital software should be about solving consumer problems. What do gaffers think are current issues in gaming that could potentially be addressed?

Only counter-point I can think of is that while digital music sales have done loads for the customer, they have done little to solve the industry problems of dying revenue, with the value of an album or song effectively devalued. On the other hand, it's meant that live gigs are huge again, as bands realise that putting 8 filler tracks on an album is something people will be aware of in a matter of hours, and subscription services have become an alternative model. Perhaps that's something that can help, embracing new (or old) ideas that digital makes easier for everyone- we already see this with multiplayer online etc, and PS+ etc could end up being the games industry version of Spotify.

I'd much rather platform owners continued to look at making gaming better rather than treating us all as thieves while pumping out broken, generic action games with day one patches, cynical DLC and asking for the same high prices as ever. No wonder Indie games have become important enough for platform holders to have to discuss months before launch- while shareholders want the guaranteed cash of everyone going bananas over the annual CoD/Fifa/AssCreed cycle, some execs have been smart enough to realise that failing to cater for an audience that doesn't want the same thing every time is a long-term problem, and leaving money on the table for smaller competitors to snap up. Everyone wants to keep an eye out for the next Minecraft, as that grass-roots, word-of-mouth success is a damn sight less risky than new AAA IP or the inevitable hundreds of redundancies at tens of studios when the CoD or AC bubble bursts in five years time.

We'll be all digital when it's in everyone's best interests to do so, not just the publisher. Digital games being a damn sight cheaper than a physical one would be a good start, and Vita's overpriced proprietary memory cards sunk it before it even started, that's a good example right there of how not to make digital appealing.
 
Even if it becomes the preferred distribution method, I don't see why physical has to disappear. It hasn't happened with books, music or films.

this.


I like physical media. I regularly rent red box because it's cheaper then Amazon Instant, the quality is better since I'm not streaming it as the movie is playing off the Bluray disc. Same with books, I can't stand reading on an e-reader. Nothing will beat turning pages imo, not for decades. It's engrained in us.
 
The way I hope it goes.

We have digital store as we do now, you buy your software/movies/books/music from digital stores. It is tied to your account and you have it forever. Just like now.

Or

You go to a small outlet and they have kiosk system where you buy a small memory card (or bring a previously used memory card). You buy your software/movie/book/music from the kiosk which tied to your same account. The software is then transferred to the memory card while you get to visit the cafe/entertainment centre and relax. Once it's done, you go home, plug it into your device and it transfers from your memory card onto your device's storage, deleting the original from your memory card. You now have the digital version on your machine.

It keeps the digital stores happy, it promotes competition, because the the stores can competitively price to ensure the digital stores don't get too greedy. Online stores can provide a service for consoles as well as key based PC systems (like steam), by working with the store based offerings.

A standardised trading system will be implemented into each of the stores where you initiate a trade with another user, agree a fee (from your digital wallet), drag your software into the trade window (ala MMOs and Steam trade) and the trade occurs, the license is transferred. A percentage of the trade then goes to the devs/pubs/whoever else feels slighted by the fact you're flogging something to someone else.

Job done. Of course this will not happen because:

1. Companies will not agree a standard delivery memory card system,
2. Companies will not agree a standardise used fee,
3. Consumers will still bitch about the fact they are not on shiny circular discs.
 
The way I hope it goes.

We have digital store as we do now, you buy your software/movies/books/music from digital stores. It is tied to your account and you have it forever. Just like now.

Or

You go to a small outlet and they have kiosk system where you buy a small memory card (or bring a previously used memory card). You buy your software/movie/book/music from the kiosk which tied to your same account. The software is then transferred to the memory card while you get to visit the cafe/entertainment centre and relax. Once it's done, you go home, plug it into your device and it transfers from your memory card onto your device's storage, deleting the original from your memory card. You now have the digital version on your machine.

It keeps the digital stores happy, it promotes competition, because the the stores can competitively price to ensure the digital stores don't get too greedy. Online stores can provide a service for consoles as well as key based PC systems (like steam), by working with the store based offerings.

A standardised trading system will be implemented into each of the stores where you initiate a trade with another user, agree a fee (from your digital wallet), drag your software into the trade window (ala MMOs and Steam trade) and the trade occurs, the license is transferred. A percentage of the trade then goes to the devs/pubs/whoever else feels slighted by the fact you're flogging something to someone else.

Job done. Of course this will not happen because:

1. Companies will not agree a standard delivery memory card system,
2. Companies will not agree a standardise used fee,
3. Consumers will still bitch about the fact they are not on shiny circular discs.

We also have the problem of closed systems with no guarantee of future support- I don't mind buying digital books and music as my ereader and MP3 player will still be able to use them when I upgrade.

At the moment, all console games are tied to the previous hardware (bar Wii/WiiU), which means that even if you buy all digital PS3 games, and have them on your PSN account, they still can't be played on a PS4. As a minor point, physical games are still a bit better as at least I can reinstall and play them whenever PSN is down for maintenance/being hacked :-)

The argument of 'keep your ps3 then!' seems a bit weak when the Internet would explode if current mp3 files and ebooks didn't work on the next gen of portable music players/ereaders. If anything it seems to devalue games, leaving them as temporary things of the moment rather than some of them being worth keeping. Maybe a general shift to PC-like architecture will help, but then it hasn't helped 360 games be downloadable on the Xbox One. Streaming sounds cool, but only if its comprehensive rather than a selected few, and I don't have to rebuy the games I already own digitally.
 
We also have the problem of closed systems with no guarantee of future support- I don't mind buying digital books and music as my ereader and MP3 player will still be able to use them when I upgrade.

At the moment, all console games are tied to the previous hardware (bar Wii/WiiU), which means that even if you buy all digital PS3 games, and have them on your PSN account, they still can't be played on a PS4.

The argument of 'keep your ps3 then!' seems a bit weak when the Internet would explode if current mp3 files and ebooks didn't work on the next gen of portable music players/ereaders. If anything it seems to devalue games, leaving them as temporary things of the moment rather than some of them being worth keeping. Maybe a general shift to PC-like architecture will help, but then it hasn't helped 360 games be downloadable on the Xbox One. Streaming sounds cool, but only if its comprehensive rather than a selected few, and I don't have to rebuy the games I already own digitally.

I agree entirely. Libraries need to be future proof. Unfortunately, consumers also want 'coding to the metal'. You can't have both. You either place a layer of abstraction over your hardware and have your APIs target the Virtual Machine layer that is created by this level of abstraction or you have APIs tailored directly to the hardware level that is present in the device.

Moving to a VM layer is my choice. Unfortunately, you then run the very real risk of not being able to extract the optimal performance from any given piece of hardware.
 
I agree entirely. Libraries need to be future proof. Unfortunately, consumers also want 'coding to the metal'. You can't have both. You either place a layer of abstraction over your hardware and have your APIs target the Virtual Machine layer that is created by this level of abstraction or you have APIs tailored directly to the hardware level that is present in the device.

Moving to a VM layer is my choice. Unfortunately, you then run the very real risk of not being able to extract the optimal performance from any given piece of hardware.

Another small point- I think building collections is a part of the hobby, and I wonder if the 'library' tools of music software, like being able to find, file, compile and play by date, title, artist etc is a part of it that the obsessive/organised side of our brains enjoys, like people who keep their games in alphabetical order.

Digital collections need to be future proof, and any attempt to shift console gamers towards it should be based around making that a priority and promoting it.

Why on earth Nintendo haven't set up an account system with 30 years of their back catalogue on it for every console they make when they are sitting on a small gold mine is beyond me. The moment they say 'these digital games will be yours forever, guaranteed to work on our future hardware rather than us trying to re-sell you SMB every three years' is the day I spend shitloads in their eshop. On one hand I understand their argument about not devaluing their products, but asking for a fiver for the less, er, well-aged NES games, tied to the console it's bought on is just crazy. Their promotions on new 3DS stuff are actually really good at the moment, but I thought they'd be doing bundles of old digital titles by now rather than reheating Ice Climbers. Ah well. Maybe next time.
 
At this point I can't see how digital is not future. Physical media might still will be here for a while, that's true, but digital is gaining grounds year by year.
Lemme give you an example: 10 years ago all my software (for work) was physical, including OS-es, drivers to various devices and so on, now it's all, and I mean all, is digital, only OS still is physical.
All my games where retail too, now, close to 70% are digital.
Oh and digital future and DRM aren't that closely related as people think. Once we'll get some more refined digital laws, DRM might be not an issue at all. Although that's not likely, I admit.
OTOH it might be that future will be different all together, who knows, no digital, no physical, something else entirely, as virtual space were you use software and games in a way you use facilities in theme park, for example. Who knows?
 
I find the OP kind of odd. Who are you talking about acting in the way you accuse?

There are obvious merits to Digital and there are merits for physical. The way the media market is going I would say the majority are happy to go digital for the convenience but since there will for a fair while yet be a lot of people that like physical collections then both will exist.

Just look at all other media markets and you have your answer.

Movies, books and music.

All three have huge digital presence but still exist (albeit in a smaller manner) in physical format and will do for as long as there is demand. There is no reason to believe it will be different for gaming as long as the issue isn't forced and we all saw how well that turned out for MS.

Anyway its not digital furture. Its already here if you want to use it that way. I do for the most part. I only buy Physical if its a particularly good deal on a blue ray or Vita game (although I only have about 7 physical Vita games but tons of digital ones). Everything else is digital only for me.

The market will dictate what will happen. I personally think digital will continue to grow in popularity but it will take a LONG time for physical to disappear entirely. I mean people still buy LP's.
 
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