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Why US men suck at Soccer??
- Thread starter Sir Alemeth
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KidA Seven
Member
If you start at the age of 12, you will suck.
Not to mention the billions of dollars in college scholarship money available to football/basketball players (a much more feasible reward for the elite player) every single year.
Although, statistically speaking, it's probably wiser to use soccer as the route to get a scholarship. The odds are more in your favor. But most people don't think like that.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
The vast majority of Americans don't care about soccer, plain and simple.
Because teams that haven't adopted it have been left behind?
Yeah. I don't know all that much about the world of American Football. There is a chance he could have played for an NFL team though right?
As I said before, I don't really know the intricacies of the sport. It's like an American saying, "all there is to soccer is running with the ball and kicking it in the goal". That is an incredibly simplistic way of looking at the sport without really knowing the deeper intricacies and skills required. In the same way American Football just looks like muscular people running around and wrestling each other to the floor. There doesn't seem a whole lot else to it. You need a good physique and/or be a good sprinter, and that's about it. It seems to me only the quarterback has any real talent which isn't based on physicality.
I'm probably overly simplifying it, as I just explained, but I think there may be at least an element of truth to it, based on the fact that people like Justin Gatlin gets a look in simply because of the fact he is a fast sprinter.
The US hasn't adopted it, but this is NOT the only thing separating the US from the rest of the world in terms of soccer.
ConfusingJazz
Member
A) No you won't
B) I said 12 because that's when soccer participation drops off a cliff in favor of football
The MLS keeps drafting players out of NCAA.
Not only the USA, but the likes of CHina have been investing an enormous amount of resources trying to be competitive in soccer.
Trust us, we don't give a rats ass about your football. MLS is growing at an excellent pace and performing fantastically as-is. We decided to do whatever it takes to distance ourselves from the Death Star that is FIFA after we were screwed out of the 2022 World Cup.
ConfusingJazz
Member
I would like to somehow convince Western Europe, Brazil, and Argentina to leave FIFA.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Kinda. I don't know how deep your bench system is in soccer, but an NFL team can have 53 players. If a team desired the publicity of taking an olympian he could conceivably make the team, but he'd be like 4th string and never see the field. If the team isn't trying to get publicity, no chance in hell. You have to have talent to be a professional football player same as any other sport.
pants
Member
Just go back over my last two posts. This is really not going to help the national setup at all. You have insular teams teaching their players who knows what with little to no standardization of youth setups. You're going to get these players at 17, 18 at wildly different levels of development and that is a clusterfuck for a national coach where he will have to teach them the basics of his playing philosophy before he can even take them out to the field. In European setups, at this age, they are all already very familiar with the national setups. Is there an active U13, U15, U17, U21 setup that guides these players into the complete article for the national squad?
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Dem grapes sure is sour, huh?
The MLS is crap dude, all the good American players play abroad. Trying to convince yourself that your team would be better if you had gotten the 2022 World Cup is pathetic.
You had it in 1994. England has much more reason to be pissed at the insane venue choices. Not my myself, as Scotsman, doesn't find that hilarious.
Except, the best players aren't coming from there. They're coming from the youth academies. That's only going to continue to improve to the point where the NCAA system is going to be irrelevant.
His chance was very, very small. He got a workout, but nothing came of it, so clearly just having elite speed is not all you need to be a good American football player.
Just like in football, there are certain positions on the American football field where speed is a priority. But there is still a lot more to it. You would also need to have good agility and elusiveness, you would need to have good hands, you would need to be strong enough to take or dish out a hit, you need to have good footwork and body control, etc. Gatlin possessed great top-end speed, but that alone does not make you an NFL-quality player. The fact that he got a workout means very little.
Yes. Barcelona paid for his growth hormone treatment and he has grown and trained with a lot of players of the current Barcelona team since a young age. The tactics that Barcelona uses wouldn't be as effective if they didn't have a proper youth academy. Cristiano Ronaldo also signed to Sporting CP's youth academy when he was around 12 years old.
Why would you want to mold every player into a specific style of play? The focus at the youth level should be on fundamental skills transferable to any mode or style of play. Pigeon holing them doesn't do them any favors. I don't even see how this necessarily works in Europe unless the same coaching staff for the national squad is present for a decade or more and they never decide to change anything.
this guy gets it lol
You guys are taking one example of that particular system working, comparing it to a country with vastly different variables in a million different facets of the comparison you're trying to make, and declaring it the only possible successful option. It's completely ridiculous.
KidA Seven
Member
Yes you will suck. I started at the age of 5 and was dominating kids who would start at age 12. It was pathetic how bad they were. And I would never dream of even making the mls.
I played for a club that traveled and practiced year round. But even then, the coaching won't be as good compared to Europe where professional academies train much more efficiently. The coaching at youth levels suck. AYSO coaches are just soccer dads that don't know shit about the sport. They waste a couple of years of players' development before they even play for traveling clubs. They also play 11v11 at youth ages where as in Europe you play 6v6 so the players get more time on the ball to improve their technique.
pants
Member
The same coaching theories get taught from the youngest age bracket up to the senior level. Like the Dutch use this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Football. Every successful team starts coaching and preparing their players for the national team at the earliest age bracket.
"Why would you want to mold every player into a specific style of play?"
-It's a team sport. Knowing your right winger in the senior team will have been taught the same things as the right winger you went through youth with makes teamplay easier.
"The focus at the youth level should be on fundamental skills transferable to any mode or style of play. Pigeon holing them doesn't do them any favors."
You dont get taught ONLY one football theory, the point is what one player knows everyone else does so you can flip between many styles without having to worry that Johnny form Team Nike Express was never taught Samba style or whatever.
Donovan Landon did it. He didn't get involved with "professional" coaching until he was 15.
Yeah, I'll be straight up with you I do have sour grapes after the 2022 World Cup.
But that doesn't have anything to do with my argument about MLS. Landon Donovan is our best player (NO, not Clint Dempsey), and he plays here. Carlos Bocanegra is our best defender. He plays here. Freddy Adu, Brek Shea, Dax Mcarthy, etc all play here. It's a 50-50 split...even if Jurgen doesn't want to admit it.
Spain and the Netherlands both employ a nationwide style of play that is taught at all levels. They were also the finalists in the most recent World Cup. It may not be the only possible option, but it is a very successful one.
Well, they are already at disadvantage compared to players that do specialize. And is not about them, is about the club that hired them. Barcelona spent long years developing their singular style down from the youth teams. Players that wouldn't fit it were let go, among them many super stars.
KidA Seven
Member
But he's not even an elite player. He is in the US, but he would be irrelevant if he was playing for another country.
Did you know that 1-1 isn't a win? That's the joke, USA couldn't even beat England. Unless this post is a joke too, I really can't tell.
AYSO is horrific. I agree.
But the MLS youth programs (specifically New York, Vancouver, Seattle, Chicago, Salt Lake) are no joke. When the Red Bulls can produce players like Jozy Altidore you know you've got something good there.
Bocanegra plays for the Rangers in Scotland and to be honest I don't see many MLS guys at par in the international level. MLS is getting better every year but it's gonna take a long time to be world class.
It's great that that works. Personally I don't think a strict style of play taught to everyone at all levels benefits the athlete, especially when you look at soccer as an international sport where he or she could go play for someone else. Let's also not forget you're using small European countries and comparing them to a country as vast and populous as the US. There are over 300 million people here. Suggesting the talent is there if it were to be focused on is nothing but math.
Nah, He's good. The exception that confirms the rule, though.
Yeah. This is completely foreign to me.
And I don't really understand the talent involved. What I will say though is strength and speed is far more central to the sport than something like soccer is. And the skill set required is different.
Uh no. Is he an elite player on the level of Messi or Xavi or Ronaldo? No. Would he start for just about every national team with the exception of world powers such as Spain, Argentina, and Brazil? Yes.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
There was an interesting article on ESPN that said that while American players spend 4 years at college only playing part-time, European players play full-time during those years which helps their development immensely. Whether or not that's true I don't know, but if so it could contribute quite significantly.
Sorry, my bad. I meant to say Omar Gonzalez and was thinking Carlos Bocanegra for some reason.
MLS is definitely not world class. I just can't stand when people are not really paying attention to how incredibly talented the teams are becoming, however.
KidA Seven
Member
When I mean elite players, I mean playing for the top clubs and being a key member of that side. Surely he wouldn't be the star he is today if he was playing for an elite country. That goes for a bunch of nations and their players that are just outside the elite countries.
No he wouldn't. He wouldn't start for Portugal, France, England, Germany, Netherlands, Colombia, Uruguay, and a bunch of other nations. He would make the squad, but wouldn't start.
pants
Member
I edited my post above to address this, you do not only get taught one style. The point is everyone gets the same footballing education so there aren't stragglers and you are able to employ a variety of styles without worry of retraining your squads.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Oh I don't know about that. He's good, but he's not nearly that good.
LOL. Come on, son. If Everton had a higher transfer budget he'd be over there right now.
pants
Member
The thing that works for south americans at Barcelona in particular is they play a possession based game with overlaps a lot with south american style play.
I don't understand how anyone can support FIFA after that shit to be honest. People were pissed about South Africa getting the hosting nod because they were not a well-known soccer powerhouse but FIFA wanted to show how progressive they were by finally having a WC in Africa.
Qatar is bad even by AFC standards and they are gifted the cup. The entire country has less people living in it than some smaller metropolitan cities.
The country can't even fill all the seats in all of their venues with their native population.
These things happen on every team. Every player learns the system or style the coach is using. Players learn this as a team. The ability to do this at various levels and with various coaches relies on having the fundamentals taught from a young age.
It's probably a waste of time to go through the starting squad for every World Cup finalist and decide where Donovan would fit. But I think one would be highly underestimating his talent if you were to say he would be "irrelevant" if he was playing for any other country besides the US. Clearly, he would be in the mix.
pants
Member
sigh, i give up.
Landon wouldnt be able to play in any South American team, the style is just way too different. He'd struggle in continental European teams as well as they play a traditionally slower and technical game. He'd be a good fit for the Dutch, Germany, England though.
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