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[Opiate]

no, you do not need to talk averages, since your "average" ignores that height is not equally rewarded across all positions.

I provided another analysis which spefically broke down average heights and weights by position. Rely on that if you'd like to your average calculations to be more specific.

unless your average breaks down height by position, your average is worthless.

It does precisely that. I'll provide the link again:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_average_heights_for_football_players

Here is another:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=493

This second analysis suggests every single position averages above 6' except for running backs, who average 5'11.

And pointing out current players within the NFL that ARE excelling under 6 feet isn't "anecdotal", its a legitimate data point since we're discussing the NFL's population. It's like saying there are no sports cars in ford's lineup then calling it "anecdotal" when I show you a mustang.

That is not at all equivalent. I am not saying it's impossible for a 4'11'' person to be a great NFL player; just that it is very, very unlikely. A single exception does not disprove this concept -- if I said that it was impossible for a 4'11'' person to be good at NFL player, then yes, that would be a relevant statement. Instead, you would need to show that over a large sample pool, a large percentage of 4'11'' people are likely to be good NFL players; lets set the bar at 10%.

Anecdotes are, by definition, single data points. When doing aggregate statistical analysis, single data points are invalid argumentation.

 

[Tristam]

Because there aren't many football fields/goals available to inner cities, and kids in suburban areas where there are football fields/goal would rather play other sports (hockey, baseball, etc). There are simply more popular options for boys regardless of what city they're in.

I'm not sure how much this matters. Soccer's simplicity is no doubt part of the reason why it's so attractive in dirt-poor African countries and in Brazilian favelas--because all that's needed is something resembling a ball.

 

[weekend_warrior]

I provided another analysis which spefically broke down average heights and weights by position. Rely on that if you'd like to your average calculations to be more specific.



It does precisely that. I'll provide the link again:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_average_heights_for_football_players

Here is another:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=493

This second analysis suggests every single position averages above 6' except for running backs, who average 5'11.

That's because height and size (to a point) is an advantage in sports, which is the point we we're making about TO being a soccer player. To which you countered that being small is more of an advantage in soccer.

 

[CriginsMcJuggs]

I would even put soccer below pro hockey, mixed martial arts, and boxing. It's a really, really low tier sport for men.

Ehhh, MMA and boxing definitely not, hockey is still pushing it. At the pro level hockey is bigger, but as a youth/high school sport, soccer still takes it.

 

[Opiate]

That's because height and size (to a point) is an advantage in sports

No it is not; this is precisely my point. It is an advantage in some sports. It is very much a disadvantage in others. A professional gymnast is not less of an athlete than a professional football player; they are just different athletes with different genetic predispositions to different skill sets.

which is the point we we're making about TO being a soccer player. To which you countered that being small is more of an advantage in soccer.

Correct. It is. This does not mean that no tall person could ever be good at European Rules Football; just that it is less likely. Unless the standard distribution of European Rules Football player height is quite large (I can't find this data if it exists, but would very much like to see it if posted), someone 6'' taller than average is very unlikely to be professionally capable.

 

[weekend_warrior]

I'm not sure how much this matters. Soccer's simplicity is no doubt part of the reason why it's so attractive in dirt-poor African countries and in Brazilian favelas--because all that's needed is something resembling a ball.

Same with basketball, which is why it dominates in inner cities. But with soccer to play properly you also need a large empty field, which might be common in Africa, but not so much in the middle of New York City.

 

[Manmademan]

I provided another analysis which spefically broke down average heights and weights by position. Rely on that if you'd like to your average calculations to be more specific.



It does precisely that. I'll provide the link again:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_average_heights_for_football_players

Here is another:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=493

This second analysis suggests every single position averages above 6' except for running backs, who average 5'11.



That is not at all equivalent. I am not saying it's impossible for a 4'11'' person to be a great NFL player; just that it is very, very unlikely. A single exception does not disprove this concept -- if I said that it was impossible for a 4'11'' person to be good at NFL player, then yes, that would be a relevant statement. Instead, you would need to show that over a large sample pool, a large percentage of 4'11'' people are likely to be good NFL players; lets set the bar at 10%.

Anecdotes are, by definition, single data points. When doing aggregate statistical analysis, single data points are invalid argumentation.

Really? and the saying "the plural of anecdote is not data" means what, then?

and here I disagree, since we're not using statistics and taking a sample of a population (say, 1000 people) and using it to make a judgement about a larger population (say, 300 million), we're looking at a small population of which every single element in it is a known quantity- in this case, the 1700 players or so within the NFL.

I don't HAVE to rely on averages, since we can point out with 100% accuracy everything about that population without relying on statistics with no margin of error. I don't need to know if it's "statistically unlilkely" that there would be a 5'7 175lb pro bowler, I can tell you exactly who he is and how long he's been playing. Pointing out numerous examples like him (the other 9 I listed) makes my point further.

Now, I will freely admit that 4 foot 11 is probably a little short for the NFL, but the average gymnast is not 4 foot 11- since all of the gymnasts in the world are not a known quantity, sure- use averages and statistics here. But it's not correct to call out as "anecdotal" the exceptions to your average that exist within the known quantity that's the population of the NFL.

 

[fuenf]

Same with basketball, which is why it dominates in inner cities. But with soccer to play properly you also need a large empty field, which might be common in Africa, but not so much in the middle of New York City.

nope, all you need is a ball and some creativity.

 

[Opiate]

Same with basketball, which is why it dominates in inner cities. But with soccer to play properly you also need a large empty field, which might be common in Africa, but not so much in the middle of New York City.

Very true -- and this could also explain the success Basketball has had in becoming an internationally respected sport, while American Rules Football has failed almost entirely when attempting the same goal.

 

[Perro]

Off Topic: I don't understand a lot of things about the MLS
What are this conferences and why?
Why there is no relegation?
Does it has a 2nd division or something?
Why there are Canadians teams?
Does Canada has a football league?
What's up with the shitty names?

 

[elsk]

Same with basketball, which is why it dominates in inner cities. But with soccer to play properly you also need a large empty field, which might be common in Africa, but not so much in the middle of New York City.

Kids play football in streets around here, space is not really a problem. Actually, if you play in smaller areas, you most likely will develop a better technique.

 

[alphaNoid]

NFL players generally range from 5'7 to 6'7 so height wise that would be over 70% of the population in the US. Not sure what you guys are arguing but US football probably has the most diverse body types of any athletic sport, when you state averages you do a disservice because you have to look At the standard deviation.

NFL players average 5'7? lol ... No, there might have been like 3 guys ever to play professionally at that height but most NFL players are 6'-6'1 minimum. Even Division 1 colleges won't usually accept anyone smaller, minus the most extreme exceptions.

 

[Opiate]

Really? and the saying "the plural of anecdote is not data" means what, then?

This is referred to as Cherry Picking, and is a known logical fallacy.

and here I disagree, since we're not using statistics and taking a sample of a population (say, 1000 people) and using it to make a judgement about a larger population (say, 300 million), we're looking at a small population of which every single element in it is a known quantity- in this case, the 1700 players or so within the NFL.

I don't HAVE to rely on averages, since we can point out with 100% accuracy everything about that population without relying on statistics with no margin of error. I don't need to know if it's "statistically unlilkely" that there would be a 5'7 175lb pro bowler, I can tell you exactly who he is and how long he's been playing. Pointing out numerous examples like him (the other 9 I listed) makes my point further.

What is the likelihood that a 5'7'' person becomes a professional football player? What percentage of the total population does this height represent? This is precisely why the anecdotal evidence is not accepted in logical argumentation (or in courts of law): we are speaking in probabilistic, not absolute terms.

 

[CriginsMcJuggs]

While there's a bit of true on that, is not exactly accurate. There's a reason why you don't see many 200+ lbs athletes playing soccer at high levels, and is not because the rest of the world are a bunch of gimps... USA excelling at soccer would require a different set of athletes than the ones playing in the NBA and NFL.

If they had been playing soccer growing up instead of football, they would be built differently

 

[2San]

Kids play football in streets around here, space is not really a problem. Actually, if you play in smaller areas, you most likely will develop a better technique.

Yeah all we need a street and that's it. A half a basketball court is already more then enough space. It trains short passes and tight control, it's pretty much what Barca and by extension Spain are known for.

And yes I would say taller is better in soccer, particularly since there are already great players in the game who have shared the physique of taller elite NFL athletes, while there are no short gymnasts in the NFL.

It is indeed better, but it's relatively minor advantage. Since skill and intelligence is way more important in football. Though athletes certainly do have a place.

 

[East Lake]

How much taller is he than average? What is the statistical likelihood that a 6'3'' person would make it in European Rules Football?

Your reference to gymnasts as "pipsqueaks" -- a pejorative term -- also suggests a general belief that taller = better at sports.

Sure, if those sports don't require extreme flexibility and reflexes. At some things, being taller is better, yes. At others it is not. Generally speaking, in aggregate, it is better to be shorter in European Rules Football, so it is statistically less likely that someone 4-5'' taller than average would excel.

It was not meant as a derogatory comment, I would be a pipsqueak in an NBA game, and so would the short gymnast in a group of stronger, taller athletes. And yes I would say taller is better in soccer, particularly since there are already great players in the game who have shared the physique of taller elite NFL athletes, while there are no short gymnasts in the NFL. And also because I think a couple inches in height pale in comparison to the level of agility and speed the taller athletes have nowadays in US sports. It's a make believe limit under the guise of logic.

 

[Opiate]

Yeah all we need a street and that's it. A half a basketball court is already more then enough space. It trains short passes and tight control, it's pretty much what Barca and by extension Spain are known for.

This is very interesting. I did not know this. Thanks to you (and others who made similar comments!) This certainly helps explain the global popularity European Rules Football has been able to achieve.

It also makes me marvel at how relatively successful Baseball has been at disseminating itself; it's not anywhere close to Football, of course. And I suspect Basketball may have passed it, but it's difficult to say, because the places Baseball is weak in (Europe, Africa) are some of the places Basketball is strongest in, and vice versa.

Regardless, baseball is not a cheap sport to practice, and yet it has done quite well for itself. I significantly doubt it will expand any further than it has, however, as other sports like European Rules Football and Basketball continue to gain popularity and move Baseball to the periphery.

 

[weekend_warrior]

No it is not; this is precisely my point. It is an advantage in some sports. It is very much a disadvantage in others. A professional gymnast is not less of an athlete than a professional football player; they are just different athletes with different genetic predispositions to different skill sets.



Correct. It is. This does not mean that no tall person could ever be good at European Rules Football; just that it is less likely. Unless the standard distribution of European Rules Football player height is quite large (I can't find this data if it exists, but would very much like to see it if posted), someone 6'' taller than average is very unlikely to be professionally capable.

There are only fewer good soccer players over 6' because there are fewer people over 6'. The average height of a EU soccer player mimics the average male hieght in the EU. The same can not be said about American sports like Basketball and Football because the physical altercations between players makes size much more of an advantage.

My argument is that size (to an amount that health does not became detrimental) would still be an advantage in soccer. And that T.O. would make a great soccer player if he trained to become one.

 

[Opiate]

It was not meant as a derogatory comment, I would be a pipsqueak in an NBA game, and so would the short gymnast in a group of stronger, taller athletes. And yes I would say taller is better in soccer, particularly since there are already great players in the game who have shared the physique of taller elite NFL athletes, while there are no short gymnasts in the NFL. And also because I think a couple inches in height pale in comparison to the level of agility and speed the taller athletes have nowadays in US sports. It's a make believe limit under the guise of logic.

Can you explain why professional players are not particularly tall, then? Do you think it's simply a coincidence? There's millions of dollars to be made. If being tall is an advantage, why aren't the 6'3'' players beating out the 5'10'' players, generally speaking?

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Off Topic: I don't understand a lot of things about the MLS
What are this conferences and why?
Why there is no relegation?
Does it has a 2nd division or something?
Why there are Canadians teams?
Does Canada has a football league?
What's up with the shitty names?

1. America is a big country, and soccer doesn't make a lot of money. Keeps cost down if you travel only to one half of it more.
2. Financing. If we introduced relegation here, every owner would sell their team in less then a week, all stadium deals would be cancelled.
3. There is a second division, MLS is expanding, and they are hoping to get an MLS franchise. If they follow the traditional North American model, they will be used as minor leagues for the MLS franchises.
4. Because that's how we roll in North America. There is a Canadian baseball team, a Canadian basketball team, and the NHL is about a quarter Canadian. Don't tell a Buffalo Bill this, but there is probably going to be a Canadian NFL team soon as well. Unlike Scotland, Canada realizes they don't have the population to have major leagues, so they join ours.
5. Yes, but its a minor league as well.
6. One is a factor of the terrible mascots created during the 90s. The other is fans that want to be European for silly reasons.

 

[Reuenthal]

How much taller is he than average? What is the statistical likelihood that a 6'3'' person would make it in European Rules Football?

Your reference to gymnasts as "pipsqueaks" -- a pejorative term -- also suggests a general belief that taller = better at sports.

Sure, if those sports don't require extreme flexibility and reflexes. At some things, being taller is better, yes. At others it is not. Generally speaking, in aggregate, it is better to be shorter in European Rules Football, so it is statistically less likely that someone 4-5'' taller than average would excel.

Big, tall guys have their chances to be successful and be desirable in football in certain positions. In others such as wingers some other physical body types are more preferable in general. Furthermore brain is very important. And when trying to find likelihoods, statistics about how tall people are in general are extremely important. For example in a sport where the height average is quite above the population's average in all positions then your assumptions would be less unsubstantiated. You first provide those combination of necessary data and then you talk about likelihoods.

But it is not as if there is anything clearly separating ability by height putting an enormous obstacle. Now muscle mass can play a role I guess in different positions, and you will tend to get some shorter players in certain positions but you can have the tall incredible creative, fast player as well. Cristiano Ronaldo for example whose speed and physicality is his advantage over the smaller better dribbler messi who I find a better finisher as well. In the case of Messi whose heigth and not Cristiano's is considered unconventional in football.

As for the likelihood of a tall guy to be successful at football, knowing that the average is an X number does not mean that the likelihood of a tall guy to be successful is very unlikely more so than the shorter players. You need more information to even jump into that conclusion. Knowing that those physical characteristics can even be desirable and there are the strong target man, DM and CB so he might very well succeed.

Another issue with your averages is that we can have people who are quite above X and others who are quite bellow X and height is simply not as important in the sport as you think it is yet you might think it is because you are analyzing the data with that preconceived conclusion in mind and your only question is what type of height means you are very unlikely to be succesfull. You neglect brain and speak about how likely you are to be successful when you have not determined that height determines that when there are certainly other factors such as brain. Even your previous example of a strong, muscled man showed a disregard of the quite successful European football players of that body type.



I don't know how to put it kindly but I think you have displayed some rather sloppy jumping into conclusions and some views that I don't see among people who follow football because them being observant of European footballknow they are not true (or rather did not think the wrong conclusions in the first place) and football is a more complicated and flexible sport than you have described.

Dunno about American Football, you might be right there.

 

[gutshot]

Off Topic: I don't understand a lot of things about the MLS
What are this conferences and why?
Why there is no relegation?
Does it has a 2nd division or something?
Why there are Canadians teams?
Does Canada has a football league?
What's up with the shitty names?

1. Two conferences split up by location: East and West. You play the teams in your conference more often than the ones in the other. This saves a team on travel costs and time, and is necessary because the US is so much bigger than any European country. It also factors into the playoffs, where the top five teams from each conference make it in to playoffs and then play a knock-out phase until two teams remain, one from the West and one from the East. These teams play in the MLS Cup and are crowned MLS Champions.

2. There is not enough interest in the sport yet to support a promotion/relegation system.

3. There are lower-level professional leagues, but they are not affiliated with the MLS in any way. The only time they play is during the US Open Cup, which is the US's club tournament.

4./5. Canada isn't big enough to have their own league. So they join the US's league. This happens in most other professional sports over here (American football being the one exception).

6. It's a US tradition to come up with corny names for your sports team.

 

[2San]

This is very interesting. I did not know this. Thanks to you (and others who made similar comments!) This certainly helps explain the global popularity European Rules Football has been able to achieve.

It also makes me marvel at how relatively successful Baseball has been at disseminating itself; it's not anywhere close to Football, of course. And I suspect Basketball may have passed it, but it's difficult to say, because the places Baseball is weak in (Europe, Africa) are some of the places Basketball is strongest in, and vice versa.

Regardless, baseball is not a cheap sport to practice, and yet it has done quite well for itself. I significantly doubt it will expand any further than it has, however, as other sports like European Rules Football and Basketball continue to gain popularity and move Baseball to the periphery.

I used to play Baseball(at a club). I however hated that I could never play with my friends. Equipment was sorta fine with what I provided(just catch barehanded). The major problem is you need too many people and a large field to properly play a match.

 

[Piggus]

While there's a bit of true on that, is not exactly accurate. There's a reason why you don't see many 200+ lbs athletes playing soccer at high levels, and is not because the rest of the world are a bunch of gimps... USA excelling at soccer would require a different set of athletes than the ones playing in the NBA and NFL.

Most kids here start off playing soccer though. I played, and almost all of my friends played. So yeah, it requires a different set of athletes but most kids don't choose to work toward being that type of athlete later on and go into other sports instead. Why? Well, I don't know very many athletes who find soccer all that exciting compared to other sports, even if it was their first sport. Me included. The stupid fake injuries also give soccer a pretty bad reputation here.

It makes me laugh when Europeans think soccer is the only sport in the world that matters. God forbid a different country finds its own identity in sports.

 

[Greg]

That is not at all equivalent. I am not saying it's impossible for a 4'11'' person to be a great NFL player; just that it is very, very unlikely. A single exception does not disprove this concept -- if I said that it was impossible for a 4'11'' person to be good at NFL player, then yes, that would be a relevant statement. Instead, you would need to show that over a large sample pool, a large percentage of 4'11'' people are likely to be good NFL players; lets set the bar at 10%.

You're not saying that? Here are a few quick quotes that started your argument that say otherwise:

He also would be terrible at Gymnastics and Swimming. Conversely, the best swimmers and gymnasts would be terrible at football even if they worked at it.

Regarding swimming in particular: he's not tall enough, his arms aren't long enough (generally it's better to have shorter limbs for American rules football), and he's prone to significant muscle mass, which is a bad thing for swimmers. You want to be very lean.

Correct. He'd be bad at all those sports. Do you feel gymnasts would make good football players if they just trained differently? Do you think swimmers would? Honest question. I'd like to know how you feel about that.

There is no such thing as a "natural athlete" or someone who is "built for sports."

And using a recent example that tosses out averages - how do you feel about the world's fastest man being 6-foot-5 despite the average height of world champion 100m sprinters being much shorter?

 

[elsk]

Most kids here start off playing soccer though. I played, and almost all of my friends played. So yeah, it requires a different set of athletes but most kids don't choose to work toward being that type of athlete later on and go into other sports instead. Why? Well, I don't know very many athletes who find soccer all that exciting compared to other sports, even if it was their first sport. Me included. The stupid fake injuries also give soccer a pretty bad reputation here.

It makes me laugh when Europeans think soccer is the only sport in the world that matters. God forbid a different country finds its own identity in sports.

Football is not an european sport, it's a worldwide sport. That's why football is so important, more than any other sport.
You can move to almost any place in the world and there is going to be football.

 

[fuenf]

This size discussion is getting ridiculous. Yes, the "ideal" football height is right around 1.8m, but any height between 1.69m and 1.9m is fine. Heights between 1.88m and 1.98m are ideal for goalkeepers.
And yes football is getting more athletic with each generation.

 

[elsk]

This size discussion is getting ridiculous. Yes, the "ideal" football height is right around 1.8m, but any height between 1.69m and 1.9m is fine. Heights between 1.88m and 1.98m are ideal for goalkeepers.

But Ibra is 1.95! drop the height factor, it doesn't really matter in football if you're 1.69 or 1.95 as long as you have good technique/talent.

Ibra, 1.95, is one of the best players in the world.
Messi, 1.69, is the best player in the world.

Height is not that relevant in football.

 

[Reuenthal]

But Ibra is 1.95! drop the height factor, it doesn't really matter if you're 1.69 or 1.95 as long as you have good technique/talent.

Agreed. Or rather you can be successful regardless of height but height can matter in being more successful at certain things.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

This size discussion is getting ridiculous. Yes, the "ideal" football height is right around 1.8m, but any height between 1.69m and 1.9m is fine. Heights between 1.88m and 1.98m are ideal for goalkeepers.

AKA: Most corners, safeties, wide receivers, and running backs.

 

[Tunin]

Same with basketball, which is why it dominates in inner cities. But with soccer to play properly you also need a large empty field, which might be common in Africa, but not so much in the middle of New York City.

You're wrong.

Here in Brazil kids do not play in super-sized fields, most schools (or neighborhoods) do not have such infrastructure.
Small indoor courts are preferred for the exact same reasons you mentioned and because its adaptable for other sports, such as Basketball and Volley.

I.e.:

And, as every other sport out there, if you want to play, you can play anywhere, even in your backyard.

 

[elsk]

AKA: Most corners, safeties, wide receivers, and running backs.

???? uh?

 

[ConfusingJazz]

???? uh?

Guys who run the ball, guys who catch the ball, guys who guard the guys catching the ball.

 

[fuenf]

But Ibra is 1.95! drop the height factor, it doesn't really matter in football if you're 1.69 or 1.95 as long as you have good technique/talent.

Ibra, 1.95, is one of the best players in the world.
Messi, 1.69, is the best player in the world.

Height is not that relevant in football.

thats true, i just wanted to give an intervall that covers most quality football players. of course there are always exception, but as long as you arent freakishly small or big you can succeed in football.

AKA: Most corners, safeties, wide receivers, and running backs.

I believe that running backs and safeties would be too big to play soccer. I think skill / bodytype wise the corner position comes closest.

 

[Piggus]

Football is not an european sport, it's a worldwide sport. That's why football is so important, more than any other sport.
You can move to almost any place in the world and there is going to be football.

Why exactly is that important? It's a worldwide sport because of how accessible it is. In the US, other sports are just as easily accessible and most people here find them more enjoyable than soccer. Just because it's the most popular sport in the world doesn't mean it's the only sport that matters.

 

[user8503492]

I think the USA has a better chance of being more dominate in the next 20 years...but thier is still alot of hate.

Like I said, my son LOVES soccer. He has played for an Academy over here which is a supported by Chelsea.
I chip in with other parents to pay for a trainer, I drive up and down the east coast and stay in hotels with him for tournaments routinely. I sit in my car 3 days a week during the summer while he trains for 3 hours a day.
He spends a week, 8 hours a day in the summer with trainers from a Liverpool sponsored program.
He plays 11 months a year while also playing Futsal and outdoor at the same time Oct-Jan
Sadly we live to far away from major cities to participate in MLS sponsored Academys tho

While most kids dream of football or baseball he dreams about playing pro soccer and idolizes players most American kids say "Who?"

He gets shit for it, they call Ive heard kids call it gay, had a car full of guys drive by his practice one day and yell out "FOOT FAGS!!!!"

But things are changing, we never had the outlet here in the states like kids like him do.
FoxSoccer Channel, GolTV, The MLS on TV weekly, The internet etc.. Not to mention I own season tickets to an MLS team plus pay for MLS direct kick (we get EVERY game)
He has walked on to the field with Everton and Shalke FC when they were in the states even...while some kids would shit themselves over meeting Lebron James my son was over the moon being inches away from Tim Cahill or and Raul.

And none of this is due to my influence, I never played soccer and he's been teachign me

I mean how many American kids from New Jersey have a room like this or Clint Dempsey over thier bed..

There are some kids in the states who find soccer as a passion, its just VERY rare sadly.

 

[elsk]

Why exactly is that important? It's a worldwide sport because of how accessible it is. In the US, other sports are just as easily accessible and most people here find them more enjoyable than soccer. Just because it's the most popular sport in the world doesn't mean it's the only sport that matters.

It's the only sport that matters to most people in the world.
I respect USA people liking their own sports but (most of) the rest of the world doesn't care about your sports.

People in USA don't find football enjoyable as much as other sports because the media is focused on other sports. If the people around you and the media focused in football, and you grow up on that since you were a kid, you would love football.
If you move to another country and live there for a time, you will most likely start to like football.

 

[Outlaw]

Because they're stuck playing fake football.

 

[Steelrain]

It's the only sport that matters to most people in the world.
I respect USA people liking their own sports but (most of) the rest of the world doesn't care about your sports.

People don't find football enjoyable as much as other sports in the USA because the media is focused on other sports. People like other sports.
If you move to another country and live there for a time, you will most likely start to like football.

Incorrect. Maybe before the internet existed.

 

[user8503492]

You're wrong.

Here in Brazil kids do not play in super-sized fields, most schools (or neighborhoods) do not have such infrastructure.
Small indoor courts are preferred for the exact same reasons you mentioned and because its adaptable for other sports, such as Basketball and Volley.

I.e.:

And, as every other sport out there, if you want to play, you can play anywhere, even in your backyard.

Yep, my son plays on a court like that in the winter while still playing in a winter league, Futsal league to improve control/possesion.

 

[elsk]

Incorrect. Maybe before the internet existed.

If you don't give the sport a chance, obviously is not going to grow on you. Where you live?

 

[SuperBonk]

If you move to another country and live there for a time, you will most likely start to like football.

Why?

 

[kassatsu]

1. MLS has surpassed both the NBA and NHL in average game attendance per game. Yes, thats right, MLS draws more spectators than the basketball or hockey in the US. This is a sign of change in the American mindset and taste in sports.

People are starting to change their mind and soccer is really catching on.

Just because they play in higher capacity stadiums doesn't mean they have better attendance. NHL league average attendance is 95% capacity with more than half of the teams 100% capacity or over.

MLS can't even come close to that.

 

[elsk]

Why?

Because the whole place around you will be about football. Your friends, the media, the whole atmosphere would be about football.
That's the solely reason why people follow a sport, it grows on you because you see it because your parents or friends like it, because it's on the TV, etc.

 

[Piggus]

It's the only sport that matters to most people in the world.
I respect USA people liking their own sports but (most of) the rest of the world doesn't care about your sports.

People in USA don't find football enjoyable as much as other sports because the media is focused on other sports.
If you move to another country and live there for a time, you will most likely start to like football.

That doesn't answer my question. You're essentially just telling me that it's the only sport that matters because it's popular. WTF? ALL sports are important because they promote exercise and provide entertainment.

People don't find soccer here as enjoyable because we have alternatives that we find more enjoyable. Like I said, I and most of my friends played soccer and then moved onto other sports.

 

[Reuenthal]

I think the USA has a better chance of being more dominate in the next 20 years...but thier is still alot of hate.

Like I said, my son LOVES soccer. He has played for an Academy over here which is a supported by Chelsea.
I chip in with other parents to pay for a trainer, I drive up and down the east coast and stay in hotels with him for tournaments routinely. I sit in my car 3 days a week during the summer while he trains for 3 hours a day.
He spends a week, 8 hours a day in the summer with trainers from a Liverpool sponsored program.
He plays 11 months a year while also playing Futsal and outdoor at the same time Oct-Jan
Sadly we live to far away from major cities to participate in MLS sponsored Academys tho

While most kids dream of football or baseball he dreams about playing pro soccer and idolizes players most American kids say "Who?"

He gets shit for it, they call Ive heard kids call it gay, had a car full of guys drive by his practice one day and yell out "FOOT FAGS!!!!"

But things are changing, we never had the outlet here in the states like kids like him do.
FoxSoccer Channel, GolTV, The MLS on TV weekly, The internet etc.. Not to mention I own season tickets to an MLS team plus pay for MLS direct kick (we get EVERY game)
He has walked on to the field with Everton and Shalke FC when they were in the states even...while some kids would shit themselves over meeting Lebron James my son was over the moon being inches away from Tim Cahill or and Raul.

And none of this is due to my influence, I never played soccer and he's been teachign me

I mean how many American kids from New Jersey have a room like this or Clint Dempsey over thier bed..


There are some kids in the states who find soccer as a passion, its just VERY rare sadly.

Hope your kid becomes really successful man. Really nice reading about him being so passionate about it.

 

[jett]

They don't. They go every 4 years to the world cup. Only a few countries do that.

That's because USA's regional competition is crap.

 

[Tristam]

Same with basketball, which is why it dominates in inner cities. But with soccer to play properly you also need a large empty field, which might be common in Africa, but not so much in the middle of New York City.

lol what? Kids on the streets of Madrid, the favelas of Brazil, the slums in Paris's outskirts...they all develop fantastic ball control because they play in tight, enclosed places. A large empty field is absolutely not necessary for soccer.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

Haven't read the thread so apologies if I am repeating any points but here are my theories.

No scouting network

This is the big one IMO. Soccer is VERY popular for kids but as they get older, they gravitate towards other sports. There isn't really a big scouting network for soccer players in America that attempt to groom them to be the next Zidane, Messi or Ronaldo etc. There is however a very in depth scouting network for the Big Three: Football, Baseball and Basketball. If we include Canada in this, hockey. Kids are scouted at in these respective sports as young as 14 years old and groomed for the pros. Scouts have been watching a guy like LeBron James since before he hit puberty. Wayne Gretzky was grabbing national attention at the age of 13 years old. Bryce Harper has been on baseball scouts radars since he was a high school freshmen. No such network exists for soccer yet.

Opportunity to make big money is limited

Related to the point above. Making it as a pro athlete is hard enough but to make it as a pro athlete in a sport that isn't that popular on the pro level in your country is even harder. Most kids with physical gifts will just make the rational decision to excel in one of the other three or four big sports. Then you have tennis and golf probably rounding out the top five. The athletes that are left playing soccer in North America as adults are basically dudes who weren't good at any other sports or dudes who love for soccer exceeded their love for money, groupies and fame. I know this is pretty common with a lot of hockey players with regards to lacrosse. There are a bunch of hockey players who were touted as being much better at lacrosse than hockey but the opportunities in lacrosse do not exist so it makes more sense to play hockey.

 

[Steelrain]

If you don't give the sport a chance, obviously is not going to grow on you. Where you live?

I've been living in Japan the past 3 years but I've spent most of my life in Germany/ Turkey. American btw. I can watch soccer if nothing else is on but NFL will always be #1. With the internet, a bunch of guys usually just order the Game Pass from NFL.com so we don't miss a single game.