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[JoeM86]

I don't see how "IVs" contribute for the "vision of the game" the creators have. It's an awful mechanic, actually kind of detrimental for the game.

Because you just see the hindrance it has on the current competitive scene. The idea of it is to create variation in Pokémon stats to encourage trades and stop each wild Pokémon being identical

I really hope we get Manaphy and potentially a western release of Shaymin before the next gen comes around.

I continually hope for a new Ranger game, much more than a Dungeon title.

 

[Waluigilicious]

For the last time it doesn't cause variation it causes pokemon to be outright better than eachother -_-

 

[JoeM86]

For the last time it doesn't cause variation it causes pokemon to be outright better than eachother -_-

It clearly does cause variation.

 

[Candescence]

I really don't see the point of IVs aside from pointless grinding with breeding in order to get a 'perfect' set of 'genes'. Hell, it even goes against an aesop some Pokemon adaptations (especially the anime) often spout (remember that asshole who abandoned that Charmander who became Ash's because he was 'weak'? IV trainers are basically him). Breeding for the sake of 'perfect genetics' goes against the spirit of Pokemon, I feel. No wonder IVs are a hidden value, players were never meant to know about or give a shit about them. Now, EVs make somewhat more sense and it's good that GF actually made them accessible with Super Training (you just need about twenty minutes to train up each of your mons), but IVs are arcane nonsense that shouldn't exist in the games.

 

[Soodanim]

For the last time it doesn't cause variation it causes pokemon to be outright better than eachother -_-

They're not mutually exclusive. In fact, one being better than another is because of that variation.

I had the 99th or so post last page and it got buried, but I'm fully against IVs. It ruins the idea of playing online for fun because I know it's full of breeders and cheaters - two routes that either take ridiculous hours or a device/save editing/trade connections. Either way it's a barrier that stops me from just EVs training a team and having fun.

 

[foxuzamaki]

For the last time it doesn't cause variation it causes pokemon to be outright better than eachother -_-

Thats literally because their variant.

 

[Travado]

IVs are great to distinguish Pokemanz.

The problem is that these stats are invisible in the game, but the players "cheat" to be able to see how the numbers are allocated.

Want to treat your pokemon with love, give affection, etc. the game preach? Then do not use "cheat" (calculators) to see the IVs, it's simple, problem solved.

Don't use calculators, don't soft reset... You will treat your pokemon exactly how the game philosophizes and then you will not have to release 1000 Pokemanz who were born so you could choose just one of them, the stronguest, the best genetically speaking.

"Ah, you are talking shit, we will never be competitive to others", someone will say. And who is now, this post down here is the honest truth already said about the competitive scene in Pokemon.

Pretty much whenever I see a pokemon fan obsessed with IVs, I assume they hate fun. Because anybody who focuses on them to such an extent seems to find every way they can to suck the fun out of the game entirely. Competitive pokemon is a joke. It's often just a bunch of cheaters and hackers throwing their hacks at each other to see who cheated harder. And even for the ones that dont cheat, all their stats are basically the same and all the movesets pre-defined based on some list they read online, so why does it matter anymore?

I like that the stats under normal play are unique, makes it feel more special and personal, but basically I dont like that people can find out exactly what those stats are and use/abuse them.

 

[NHarmonic.]

Because you just see the hindrance it has on the current competitive scene. The idea of it is to create variation in Pokémon stats to encourage trades and stop each wild Pokémon being identical


I continually hope for a new Ranger game, much more than a Dungeon title.

Well personally i've never seen someone interested in trading for the IVs. And, i get the genetic aspect but it's really not needed. I really think it'd be a lot more fun if you used that time you spent breeding into designing movesets, strategies, etc.

Cause seriously, breeding is really, really boring and you actually become team rocket by using pokemon as expendables for the "perfect" one.

 

[Wichu]

Damn it, guys. Pokémon are just a couple of hundred bytes in a video game. "Love" and "affection" don't mean anything. There's nothing wrong with treating them as "expendable".

IMO the best solution is to do the same thing to IVs as they've done to levels - keep them in-game and in No Restrictions mode, but max them out temporarily in Normal/Flat modes (like how all levels are set to 50). Everyone is happy.

 

[Waluigilicious]

Pokemon already vary through movesets, gender, nature, ability, colour, nickname, pokeball type and stats (EVs). There is literally no need for them to "vary" in a way that some are outright better than others rendering them worthless. At least they could make them vary properly in a way that even if a special sweeper has rubbish special attack it could have defence to make up for it. So at least then it simply isn't IDEAL and not WORTHLESS. Man I really can't believe anyone defends the current method in any way.

 

[Gsnap]

Damn it, guys. Pokémon are just a couple of hundred bytes in a video game. "Love" and "affection" don't mean anything. There's nothing wrong with treating them as "expendable".

IMO the best solution is to do the same thing to IVs as they've done to levels - keep them in-game and in No Restrictions mode, but max them out temporarily in Normal/Flat modes (like how all levels are set to 50). Everyone is happy.

Obviously there's nothing morally wrong with it. That's not the point. The point is, when your game's narrative and world building emphasize certain themes like love and friendship and all that stuff, you shouldn't introduce systems that encourage behavior that goes against those themes. That's just sloppy game design. And even if we ignore that, IVs in their current form are still just stupid and unfun. There are plenty of other ways to keep variation without using such a blatantly contradictory and boring system.

 

[Macka]

IVs are great to distinguish Pokemanz.

The problem is that these stats are invisible in the game, but the players "cheat" to be able to see how the numbers are allocated.

You do know there's an IV checker in-game, right? You don't have to cheat in order to figure out the IV's of a Pokemon.

 

[Carl7]

The unique problem with neutralizing IVS in battle is that it mess with trick room teams, but it's a good ideal overall.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Obviously there's nothing morally wrong with it. That's not the point. The point is, when your game's narrative and world building emphasize certain themes like love and friendship and all that stuff, you shouldn't introduce systems that encourage behavior that goes against those themes. That's just sloppy game design. And even if we ignore that, IVs in their current form are still just stupid and unfun. There are plenty of other ways to keep variation without using such a blatantly contradictory and boring system.

Every game, especially RPGs work on numbers, thats unavoidable really and shouldnt be something used agaisnt game design

 

[Gsnap]

Every game, especially RPGs work on numbers, thats unavoidable really and shouldnt be something used agaisnt game design

Obviously. Never said using numbers is bad. In fact I've already spoken about how good EVs are. Developers just have to use the numbers properly. And there are plenty of arguments for why IVs in their current form are poorly used numbers. As we've already seen time and again in this thread and many just like it.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I like IVs a lot, I just wish there was a way to get specific IVs in game, even as some sort of super ultra duper secret post-game reward. I imagine that would solve most people's problems with the system, since at that point in the game you are clearly trying to max out your enjoyment of it.

X & Y made breeding for perfect IVs trivial anyway. So at this point, I kind of view it as a non-issue. Personally, I like having IVs because I know my personally bred pokes are as good as they can be.

Getting a perfect Pokémon through Destiny Knots in X & Y still takes too much time for anyone serious about it to not be encouraged to just use a cheating device.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

That's because is kinda impossible to hold real life single tournaments that don't take 10 years to complete. Nobody actually likes stall except for people over at Smogon.

I mean, if this was true then logically DPPt's hyper-offensive glass-cannon focused meta in singles would have meant that in Gen 4 Nintendo would have promoted singles over doubles. They didn't. Nintendo selects doubles over singles for their championships regardless of the actual meta, which is what makes the decision so baffling when their games are geared entirely around singles. Even if this weren't true and Nintendo did pick doubles as the premier format because singles sucks, the fact that Gen 6 has been so stall-oriented is because of balancing fuck-ups by Nintendo to begin with - the power creep that started really in Gen 5 became absolutely out of control by Gen 6. Megas particularly are an interesting concept but they just fuck completely with singleplayer balance; Gen 6 is the first time I have actively disliked singleplayer competitive and my favourite competitive gen was Gen 2 which was famous for bulk. Either Nintendo should make campaign mode use doubles too, or balance singles properly and use it for their premier format. This weird halfway house is baffling to both new and old players.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

I think the reason the official formats are in doubles is because more pokemon are viable in that format. And like someone said earlier, the matches are quicker.

Also, DPPt wasn't hyper offense. People were still using moves like brick break for coverage back then lol.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I think the reason the official formats are in doubles is because more pokemon are viable in that format. And like someone said earlier, the matches are quicker.

I don't actually think that the viability point is true. 51 Pokemon constitute at least 3.41% of all uses (i.e. you have a 50% chance of seeing that Pokemon if you play 20 matches) for both Smogon OU and PWC Doubles, and PWC Doubles has a much higher concentration of usage around the top ten than singles does - Smogon OU has a smoother tail implying a more equal usage distribution. The matches are somewhat quicker but I don't think the difference is significant enough to make a game where the multiplayer format is effectively an entirely different game to the singleplayer format.

Also, DPPt wasn't hyper offense. People were still using moves like brick break for coverage back then lol.

And? Doesn't stop it being hyper-offensive, it just meant coverage by Pokemon was poor and had to be incorporated by using overlapping sweepers. Infernape, Weavile, Aerodactyl, Azelf, Flygon, Gengar, Jolteon, etc - DPPt OU was littered with fast sweepers that could take about one hit beore keeling over.