yankeeforever2
Member
DarkAngelYuna said:
The cycle of shit continues.
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Wii Menu Update 06/16/08 Twilight Homebrew Save Hack "patched"
- Thread starter HUELEN10
- Start date
The cycle of shit continues.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
yankeeforever2 said:
Because clearly this is only being used for piracy and piracy alone, correct?
yankeeforever2
Member
nah just saying, company patches hack--->hackers find new hack--->company patches hack--->hackers find new hack--->company patches hack--->hackers find new hack--->company patches hack--->hackers find new hack..........its just a pretty shitty cycle.Dragona Akehi said:
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
it's not just the region-protection defiance, there's also homebrew.Xeke said:
so what is homebrew? homebrew is all that software that runs on non-open platforms but is still totally legal - as in its creation, distribution and use, none of the parties involved violated any copyrights, so its use falls in the 'fair use' product norms. that said, homebew does usually violate your contactual agreement with the hw vendor, and as a result does strip the device of its warranty. i.e. nintendo (or any other console manufacturer) have all the rights to refuse warranty service to customers who have apparently run homebrew on the appliance, as that effectively places the product outside of its 'designed working norms'. this, though, is something that most homebrew users are well aware of and are in consent with.
why are people so keen on running homebrew? well, from the sheer notion that a computing potential should not remain untapped, to the hw's ideal fitness to some purposes available only through homebrew (e.g. some consoles being potent media centres), people just tend to utilize their property in various ways. actually, one could argue that running a media centre on you game console is more natural than driving a sports car as a commuting vehicle, but when you look at it, it's all 'fair uses' of a product.
HUELEN10 said:
Well I can. They're not doing anything to stop against the real pirates (modchips). Hackers are going to get around this and continue using homebrew for emulation and rom purposes. Freeloader owners get boned.
It's really similar to what happened with the PSP, but worse imo. The PS3 does it right, Linux is available for homebrewers so pirates don't have that excuse, it's region free so us PAL people don't have a real reason to bitch and moan.
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
blu said:
I'm not sure who I hate more, the people who say they use homebrew software and actually pirate, or the people who really use homebrew software.
Seriously, stop trying to run linux on your fucking toaster.
Metal Gear?!
Member
If it weren't for people "trying to run linux on their fucking toaster" finding things like the trucha signing bug, we never would have gotten the freeloader. That's what they have contributed. What have you done exactly other than whine about them on messageboards?RevenantKioku said:
I was trying to update my Wii system for the last couple of hours and couldn't because I could not connect to the internet at all. I then remembered that I had an issue with 3rd party memory card preventing the Wii from connecting to the internet. Anyone else have the same issue? Whenever I have my action replay memory card in the Wii, the wireless would not work at all.
Metal Gear?!
Member
You have uncovered my true identity!consoul said:
HUELEN10 said:
They are actually on legally very shaky ground to region lock their consoles because it restricts international trade. Australia legalised modchips for this very reason (as well as people's right to do whatever they want to something they've bought and paid for).
Basically all trade is free and to be unrestricted.
Regional license? In what respect? Like "this may only be distributed within the US"? It's like Burai said. That's also the reason region free DVD players are legal in central Europe.
Companies try to stay in control of regional markets by region locking and also.... shady methods. Sony vs Lik-Sang was a prime example. Fortunately they can't claim that foreign DVDs are dangerous for your health.
Regional license? In what respect? Like "this may only be distributed within the US"? It's like Burai said. That's also the reason region free DVD players are legal in central Europe.
Companies try to stay in control of regional markets by region locking and also.... shady methods. Sony vs Lik-Sang was a prime example. Fortunately they can't claim that foreign DVDs are dangerous for your health.
Oh mah gawd, the Nintendo way of "fixing" this exploit really leaves me wondering...
Introducing a special function that checks for savegames that exploit the known vulnerability - instead of fixing the known vulnerability.
So awesome.
All they had to do was turn on the correct signature checking routine they already stealth-installed in previous updates. I guess they found an incompatibility or something, because otherwise the way they handled this is just braindead - or intended as a stopgap measure.
Introducing a special function that checks for savegames that exploit the known vulnerability - instead of fixing the known vulnerability.
So awesome.
All they had to do was turn on the correct signature checking routine they already stealth-installed in previous updates. I guess they found an incompatibility or something, because otherwise the way they handled this is just braindead - or intended as a stopgap measure.
CTLance said:Oh mah gawd, the Nintendo way of "fixing" this exploit really leaves me wondering...
Introducing a special function that checks for savegames that exploit the known vulnerability - instead of fixing the known vulnerability.
So awesome.
All they had to do was turn on the correct signature checking routine they already stealth-installed in previous updates. I guess they found an incompatibility or something, because otherwise the way they handled this is just braindead - or intended as a stopgap measure.
I'm still trying to figure out why these "homebrew" guys are trying so hard to "fix" it. I think Nintendo stated in so certain terms they didn't want people doing this, yet people do it anyway. Any why? There are PCs available to code to your hearts desire. Why continue jumping through hoops with Nintendo? Or any manufacturer for that matter. I've never understood it and these "homebrew" guys don't help their cause by continuing to find exploits. It's a silly cycle and if you supported the company and the hardware, then they'd have respect for what the company is trying to accomplish.
EDarkness said:
There's a special thrill to working with a unified limited hardware which also has a unique structure. Like people still hacking away at the Amiga and C64 to drive it to new, previously unseen heights.
Well, yes, and of course you could hack away at those older system but hey, that's an old piece and it's nice to get a new "toy" to take apart.
I think it's a stupid cycle, Nintendo should think of a way of enabling homebrew without opening an easy road for pirates. But as things stand now, they are even unable to simply completely lock people out of a supposedly "airtight" system so I understand why the don't do that.
Infernal Monkey
Member
EDarkness said:
Why would they help Nintendo's obsession with screwing over PAL gamers?
Basically, it boils down to: "Why Oggh try get burning wood? Fire bad! Everyone knows!"EDarkness said:
Taking apart a toy to see how it works is something I daresay all of us have done at one point or another.
As far as I'm concerned they're in the clear. Have you never felt the joy of tinkering with something? It's awesome when you can sink your teeth into a problem and after a long, arduous fight finally find its solution - all the while giving new functions to a product you paid for in full.
They're true tech enthusiasts for the most part, and in my opinion they're sorely needed in our times, with DRM and IP shenaningans encroaching us from all sides.
They're free to do whatever the fuck they want to with the hardware they obtained legally. I mean, look at how insanely useful the XBox 1 became as a media center once Bunnie and others gave coders access to its innards.
Or look at this. It serves no purpose at all. It just plays Guitar Hero in a thoroughly unorthodox way. Should we bar him from inventing something like it just because it defeats the purpose of the game system?
Reverse engineering, just like all research, isn't morally ambiguous per se. It's the application of the knowledge, mostly by uninformed others, that really gives the knowledge meaning. The homebrew guys are harmless. The pirates that abuse their findings, however, are not. It only takes one guy that tinkers with a system to break its security and enable piracy. Put it into perspective: Our cozy little mudball houses vastly in excess of six billion individuals. Even if only a ridiculously tiny fraction of those have both the means and the motivation that still amounts to a ridiculous amount of possible "leaks". There will always be one guy that spreads the knowledge. Always. So let's at least reap the benefits with informed and educated tech professionals. They need to learn their stuff somewhere, so why not let them tinker with whatever they find in their homes.
Humans will always try to expand and explore. It's in our blood. Without this instinct we'd still be flinging poo at each other in some ditch. No curiosity, no progress - it's that easy, really.
Mithos
Member
CTLance said:Oh mah gawd, the Nintendo way of "fixing" this exploit really leaves me wondering...
Introducing a special function that checks for savegames that exploit the known vulnerability - instead of fixing the known vulnerability.
So awesome.
All they had to do was turn on the correct signature checking routine they already stealth-installed in previous updates. I guess they found an incompatibility or something, because otherwise the way they handled this is just braindead - or intended as a stopgap measure.
The bold....
THEY DID, they patched the ios30 and ios31 to add signature checking from the infamous ios37, then they added a check on the zelda savegame.
Would ya look at that, they did. Well, color me embarassed. I could've sworn that wasn't known when I wrote it, but well... feck. Time to wipe the egg off my face.Mithos said:
They may not have been thorough (installed channels aren't checked), but at least they're trying. I still maintain their solution so far lacks any semblance of grace.
Don't mind my elaborate shifting of goalposts. 
JoshuaJSlone
Member
So earlier I was saying it would seem a tricky task for Nintendo to get rid of an already-installed Homebrew Channel if the users were actually paying attention. Am I right about this or am I overlooking something? It seems like an update could sniff the channel out by having it detect, say, channels named "Homebrew Channel" or with a certain checksum. All the Homebrew Channel folks would have to do is release an update that renamed it "Housebrew Channel" and with slight changes that made it not the exact channel the update's parameters were looking for, and it would be made safe to survive an update. How much farther could they go?
JoshuaJSlone
Member
What would stop the HBC from switching sigs?zigg said:
They simply could check the checksum (lolz) of every installed channel against a set of known checksums for "legit" channels.JoshuaJSlone said:
But they don't even have to go that far, I don't think any of the homebrew apps are even correctly signed, so they would just need to recheck the signature of all channels with their fixed method.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
EDarkness said:
Sony keeps telling people they aren't allowed to use homebrew PSP stuff, but it's an objectively better experience every step of the way.
Also nice air-quotes on homebrew. Say what you really mean.
JoshuaJSlone said:
The fact that you just can't make up a signature. Only the holder of a private key can sign data with the corresponding public key.
It's my understanding trucha signing only worked because of a bug, not because people were in possession of Nintendo's key, and thus able to generate new, valid signatures.
(Again, I dunno if Nintendo's implementation has any weaknesses, which may make this moot.)
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
of course it is, *insert-console-vendor* don't have that much of an incentive to make their product as universally useful as the homebrew community does. particularly unhappy about homebrew are those vendors that subsidise (i.e. sell at a loss) their product, or IOW use their device as a gateway for other sources of profit. then the fact that their customers run something else but licensed software becomes quite an issue - the bigger the subsidising the bigger the issue with homebrew. nintendo, though, should not suffer much from that, given they profit from the device sale itself; whether i buy a wii to run a media center on it, or to use it as a press papier should not be of such a concern for them, as the only thing they lose is potentially greater profit. and while nobody can accuse nintendo of wanting to maximise their profit by any fair means, nobody can accuse homebrew users that thay find vendor-unintended fair uses for the consoles they own, so it's a non-fault situation actually. as long as *insert-console-vendor* don't iron-clad their product aginst unauthorised uses, people will find fair uses for them, period.Stumpokapow said:
all said and done, the majority of homebew owners that i know do spend their fair monetary share on lincensed products for the platforms they also run homebew on, so if nintendo is to have a grudge with somebody, it's not those homebrew users.
Speevy said:
Speevy, you are more intelligent than this.
AND in fact, a 75% of the apps actually does not allow any fraudulent use. Just wad manager (to install wad channels) and the emulators do them, and there is like 4 emulators out versus at least 20 different homebrew apps.
HUELEN10 said:
Nope
They are some usb drivers and SD drivers working, but they are really bad and they are still trying to figure out how to make a custom firmware that doesn´t brick everything. Probably the low knowledge about the wii and the few coders on that project are making it take long.
But well, if nintendo words are true we could see that on an official firmware soon so who knows.
HUELEN10
Member
Cause I wanna stress that I NEED this, as do many.itxaka said:Nope
They are some usb drivers and SD drivers working, but they are really bad and they are still trying to figure out how to make a custom firmware that doesn´t brick everything. Probably the low knowledge about the wii and the few coders on that project are making it take long.
But well, if nintendo words are true we could see that on an official firmware soon so who knows.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
good luck, dude. if you manage to get it installed, go through the update, and come out on the other side unscathed, keep us posted.
if we don't hear from you again, we'll remember the good times.
if we don't hear from you again, we'll remember the good times.