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[HUELEN10]

good luck, dude. if you manage to get it installed, go through the update, and come out on the other side unscathed, keep us posted.

if we don't hear from you again, we'll remember the good times.

Wait, you can still install it AFTER 3.3?

 

[beelzebozo]

i think mejilan was planning on installing the channel, then updating. unless i misunderstood.

 

[Mejilan]

i think mejilan was planning on installing the channel, then updating. unless i misunderstood.

That is correct. For the first time ever, I hesitated before installing an official console firmware (my PS3 and 360 are both fully up-to-date). I wanted to at least attempt to install the HBC before I lose the ability for the foreseeable future (even though I really have no use for it).

Tonight's the night, methinks!

 

[HUELEN10]

That is correct. For the first time ever, I hesitated before installing an official console firmware (my PS3 and 360 are both fully up-to-date). I wanted to at least attempt to install the HBC before I lose the ability for the foreseeable future (even though I really have no use for it).

Tonight's the night, methinks!

Good luck, keep us updated.

I never got around to it. I also do not own TP.

 

[Christine]

That is correct. For the first time ever, I hesitated before installing an official console firmware (my PS3 and 360 are both fully up-to-date). I wanted to at least attempt to install the HBC before I lose the ability for the foreseeable future (even though I really have no use for it).

Tonight's the night, methinks!

Unless you've got a burning desire to offload Miis to the parade, why not just install the HBC and wait on the update?

 

[Haunted]

Basically, it boils down to: "Why Oggh try get burning wood? Fire bad! Everyone knows!"

Taking apart a toy to see how it works is something I daresay all of us have done at one point or another.

As far as I'm concerned they're in the clear. Have you never felt the joy of tinkering with something? It's awesome when you can sink your teeth into a problem and after a long, arduous fight finally find its solution - all the while giving new functions to a product you paid for in full.
They're true tech enthusiasts for the most part, and in my opinion they're sorely needed in our times, with DRM and IP shenaningans encroaching us from all sides.
They're free to do whatever the fuck they want to with the hardware they obtained legally. I mean, look at how insanely useful the XBox 1 became as a media center once Bunnie and others gave coders access to its innards.
Or look at this. It serves no purpose at all. It just plays Guitar Hero in a thoroughly unorthodox way. Should we bar him from inventing something like it just because it defeats the purpose of the game system?

Reverse engineering, just like all research, isn't morally ambiguous per se. It's the application of the knowledge, mostly by uninformed others, that really gives the knowledge meaning. The homebrew guys are harmless. The pirates that abuse their findings, however, are not. It only takes one guy that tinkers with a system to break its security and enable piracy. Put it into perspective: Our cozy little mudball houses vastly in excess of six billion individuals. Even if only a ridiculously tiny fraction of those have both the means and the motivation that still amounts to a ridiculous amount of possible "leaks". There will always be one guy that spreads the knowledge. Always. So let's at least reap the benefits with informed and educated tech professionals. They need to learn their stuff somewhere, so why not let them tinker with whatever they find in their homes.

Humans will always try to expand and explore. It's in our blood. Without this instinct we'd still be flinging poo at each other in some ditch. No curiosity, no progress - it's that easy, really.

Nice use of pathos there. Hackers all over the world salute you, Sir.

 

[mclem]

I'm going to probably do that myself this weekend, my Wii can glow to itself in the meantime.

I'm wondering if it's safer or riskier to, after installing the HB channel, copying it to an SD card and deleting it from the frontend, only copying back when I want to use it directly - thus meaning it's not sitting around and looking incriminating when Nintendo next come knocking.

 

[Mejilan]

Heathen! I own both versions!

Yeah, I'll report back. My recent DS successes have emboldened me.

Edit - Become I take sick pleasure from upgrading my consoles. And the 3.3 update is really more of a setback than a roadblock.

Unless you're a Freeloader user, anyway. Which I'm not.

 

[beelzebozo]

installing the homebrew channel embiggens the soul of any man.

 

[Haunted]

installing the homebrew channel embiggens the soul of any man.

:lol Perfectly cromulent etc. etc.


I already have the homebrew channel and I won't update the FW until it's needed. Which brings me to the question: where's the next great Nintendo game that will have the update on the disc? Wii Music? Wario Land?

It seems a couple months in the future at least.

 

[beelzebozo]

not sure. but i'm with you in that i'm waiting until i have to cross that bridge to do so.

 

[31 Flavas]

As usual, pirates win and legitimate customers get fucked.

Please tell me how this at all affects my ability to play retail games that I already have or will buy in the future?

Wait, what, this update doesn't affect retail software at all? It only affects unauthorized and non-licensed homebrew on the Wii?

If homebrew was a legitimate customer activity on the Wii something tells me you wouldn't need to break system security with an exploit or modchip in the first place.

So again... How is the legitimate customer getting fucked here?

 

[HUELEN10]

Please tell me how this at all affects my ability to play retail games that I already have or will buy in the future?

Wait, what, this update doesn't affect retail software at all? It only affects unauthorized and non-licensed homebrew on the Wii?

If homebrew was a legitimate customer activity on the Wii something tells me you wouldn't need to break system security with an exploit or modchip in the first place.

So again... How is the legitimate customer getting fucked here?

I declare thee the winner to this particular view of the argument.

 

[Johnkers]

For the 50th time, Freeloader gets locked out, importers get screwed.

 

[Mejilan]

Please tell me how this at all affects my ability to play retail games that I already have or will buy in the future?

Wait, what, this update doesn't affect retail software at all? It only affects unauthorized and non-licensed homebrew on the Wii?

If homebrew was a legitimate customer activity on the Wii something tells me you wouldn't need to break system security with an exploit or modchip in the first place.

So again... How is the legitimate customer getting fucked here?

As has been mentioned again, and again, and again, this update broke the Wii version of Freeloader. Something our poor PAL brethren have been using with great joy to play their legitimately purchased imports on their legitimately purchased consoles since the GCN days. Hell, even I have a GCN Freeloader (I have a couple of Euro imports that never made it out here in the US). It's a pity that the new Wii Freeloader has been crippled. It's a great utility.

 

[HUELEN10]

As has been mentioned again, and again, and again, this update broke the Wii version of Freeloader. Something our poor PAL brethren have been using with great joy to play their legitimately purchased imports on their legitimately purchased consoles since the GCN days. Hell, even I have a GCN Freeloader (I have a couple of Euro imports that never made it out here in the US). It's a pity that the new Wii Freeloader has been crippled. It's a great utility.

Still, it was doomed to fail from the start. Keep that in mind.

 

[Mejilan]

I know that. But it is unfortunate.

Hopefully Datel can find a solution soon. And by that, of course, I mean that I hope that the homebrew community will find a solution soon that Datel will steal.

 

[31 Flavas]

As has been mentioned again, and again, and again, this update broke the Wii version of Freeloader. Something our poor PAL brethren have been using with great joy to play their legitimately purchased imports on their legitimately purchased consoles since the GCN days. Hell, even I have a GCN Freeloader (I have a couple of Euro imports that never made it out here in the US). It's a pity that the new Wii Freeloader has been crippled. It's a great utility.

Shit... man. That's the same argument as why doesn't nintendo let me install twilight hack again?

I'll grant you that you've bought retail software. But that retail software isn't authorized to run on your system. You have to exploit the system in order to run that software which isn't authorized for your system.

So how again is that legitimate?

 

[jts]

I know that. But it is unfortunate.

Hopefully Datel can find a solution soon. And by that, of course, I mean that I hope that the homebrew community will find a solution soon that Datel will steal.

The "scene" also steals from Datel. AFAIK, there are people who instead of trucha signing their isos, just use them untouched along with a burned freeloader, or they just burn the freeloader directly on each game disk.

 

[Mejilan]

Shit... man. That's the same argument as why doesn't nintendo let me install twilight hack again?

English?

I'll grant you that you've bought retail software.

That's all that needs to be said. When you consider what this 3.3 update accomplishes in the end? It hurts the consumers, not the pirates.

ESPECIALLY in an era where region-free hardware and software has become the norm. I could understand a potential NoA vs NoE conflict of interest, in that those early adopters that import the US games are not likely to turn around and repurchase the game once it hits the local retail channels, but that highlights another problem with Nintendo in Europe. A problem that Freeloader helped to address. And there is more than enough software that's never released in Europe to begin with. At least, that was true in the GCN days. I believe it's gotten better with the Wii. A bit.

 

[Mammothtank]

I still have Freeloaders in stock =(

 

[itxaka]

The "scene" also steals from Datel. AFAIK, there are people who instead of trucha signing their isos, just use them untouched along with a burned freeloader, or they just burn the freeloader directly on each game disk.

Having Geckofree available I wonder who in earth would use a burned freeloader. And for your comment on "burn the freeloader directly on each game disk" I see that you have not much knowledge on this.

Datel stole the work of the homebrew community to earn money with a product that isn´t updatable and it´s easily stopped. No one stole from them anything, in fact, there was a method to change regions on some disc long before they appeared in the scene..

Good luck Mejilan (not that you need it), be sure to try the quake interpreter and scummvm.

 

[31 Flavas]

That's all that needs to be said. When you consider what this 3.3 update accomplishes in the end? It hurts the consumers, not the pirates.

Ok einstein... Why will your retail software not run on your Wii system then? Why do you need to hack your Wii or install a Modchip in the first place? (which was the original question)

Answer that. Tell me. If you your activity was legitimate then your retail software would run just fine. The system would authenticate the disk and you'd be on your merry way.

But that isn't what is happening right? Your legitimate Wii system is rejecting a legitimate retail disk for a very know and obvious reason. Playing imported games is not a kosher.

If playing retail imported copies was something that was kosher with Nintendo they wouldn't put the region lock out in the first place.

So, geeze, why am I not surprised that a non-kosher activity got deep sixed?

ESPECIALLY in an era where region-free hardware and software has become the norm.

This is like telling a law enforcement officer you are not guilty of exceeding the speed limit for the road, "Because everyone else is doing it." There is a speed limit for the road you are traveling if you exceed that speed limit you are guilty. Just because everyone else is speeding does not now make speeding legitimate.

Seriously, do I have to play the role of a parent and ask you the question, "If everyone was jumping of a very tall bridge, would you do it too?"

It's fine and dandy that Sony decided to not region encode their games. In fact I think that is great and whole heartedly support it. I wish Nintendo would follow in their same footsteps. But Nintendo has not. And just because Sony decided to doesn't mean running imported Wii games is now legitimate.

There for, again, how was your activity legitimate in the first place? And again I stand firm that the retail customer is not being harmed.

 

[mclem]

But that isn't what is happening right? Your legitimate Wii system is rejecting a legitimate retail disk for a very know and obvious reason. Playing imported games is not a kosher.

Could you please clarify the precise definition of the emboldened term that you are using in this argument?

If you are indeed stating that playing, say, Dream Pinball in the UK on a PAL Wii is illegal, please indicate to me what law is broken in doing so.

 

[Stumpokapow]

This is like telling a law enforcement officer you are not guilty of exceeding the speed limit for the road, "Because everyone else is doing it." There is a speed limit for the road you are traveling if you exceed that speed limit you are guilty. Just because everyone else is speeding does not now make speeding legitimate.

Uh, no. If you want to encapsulate this into a car analogy, it'd be like if your car dealership pulled you over and said you weren't allowed to listen to 50 cent in your car. You'd reply "go fuck yourself, what I'm doing is not against the law, I bought the car and I'll do what I want with it..."

What Nintendo wants you to do with your hardware or software does not matter. What you do with a product you buy is your decision. If you want to modify it through mod chips or homebrew or smash it with a hammer or turn it into a toaster, it's your decision. If Nintendo does not want to service modified consoles, that's A-OK. But if they want to try to stop you by law and if they want to stop you by software they're fighting a losing battle with no particular moral legitimacy.

 

[Mejilan]

Ok einstein... Why will your retail software not run on your Wii system then? Why do you need to hack your Wii or install a Modchip in the first place? (which was the original question)

Answer that. Tell me. If you your activity was legitimate then your retail software would run just fine. The system would authenticate the disk and you'd be on your merry way.

But that isn't what is happening right? Your legitimate Wii system is rejecting a legitimate retail disk for a very know and obvious reason. Playing imported games is not a kosher.

If playing retail imported copies was something that was kosher with Nintendo they wouldn't put the region lock out in the first place.

So, geeze, why am I not surprised that a non-kosher activity got deep sixed?

Relax. No need to get huffy or insulting. I'm playing devil's advocate here. I have a US Wii. I live in the US. I do not own Wii Freeloader and the only "imports" I've purchased for the system were released here on via the VC. I don't NEED to hack my Wii. I merely WANT to. For the fun of it. And I'd never install a modchip. The only hardware mod I've ever done was to fix the horribly broken stock d-pad on the original model PSP.

However, some advice, Junior. Accusing people here of engaging in piracy without any kind of proof is grounds for a banning. I'm assuming you were using the "general you" there, and not being at all accusatory. Wouldn't want to see you get banned over something so silly. And don't talk to me about kosher. I'm Jewish. ;p

I'm not surprised that Nintendo has finally taken the steps to lock out the Twilight Hack. I am surprised, however, that all they've done is (poorly) stop up a relatively minor whole, and done NOTHING about stopping actual piracy. Their recent update only effectively broke Freeloader. It didn't solve any of the piracy issues they SHOULD be focusing on. Hell, all it does is wipe out a hacked save, basically. It doesn't fix the exploit that said hacked save utilized to work it's magic. Which is exactly why workarounds to this new update are already close to perfection. *shrugs* Like this conversation, Nintendo's counter measure is inane.

This is like telling a law enforcement officer you are not guilty of exceeding the speed limit for the road, "Because everyone else is doing it." There is a speed limit for the road you are traveling if you exceed that speed limit you are guilty. Just because everyone else is speeding does not now make speeding legitimate.

Terrible example. It's not illegal to import games or consoles. It is it no way equivalent to breaking the speed limit.

Seriously, do I have to play the role of a parent and ask you the question, "If everyone was jumping of a very tall bridge, would you do it too?"

No, you don't have to take such a ridiculous role. You could simply shut up and let people do whatever they want with their systems. Especially if they're already out of warranty.

It's fine and dandy that Sony decided to not region encode their games. In fact I think that is great and whole heartedly support it. I wish Nintendo would follow in their same footsteps. But Nintendo has not. And just because Sony decided to doesn't mean running imported Wii games is now legitimate.

There's nothing illegal about playing legitimately acquired imports. Period.

 

[Infernal Monkey]

31 Flavas, do you work for an American game publisher or something? Are you that angry that I imported some games to play? I am very sorry for supporting your company and wanting to save up to $60 AUD per game and play them six months to two years before their official releases. That's if they do even get released here. A lot of American Wii games never make it! I do not understand why you feel the need to type walls of text about this.

Can you please tell your boss to release games in PAL regions? Thanks! It would save us both a lot of trouble!

(I would import a US Wii if I could, but they are constantly out of stock, can you get me one 31 Flavas? )

 

[Mejilan]

Ok, installing the Homebrew Channel was about the stupid-easiest thing I've ever done. At least, way easier than anything I ever did to, on, or with my DS or PSP.

But now I'm in the same boat as I was before. There's not a damn thing I actually want to do WITH the damn channel. Oh well. At least it's pretty. ;p

Of course, now I'm actually nervous about updating to Wii OS 3.3. Haha.

 

[beelzebozo]

the funny thing is that the homebrew channel looks as good as, if not better than, some of nintendo's own channels.

 

[Totobeni]

wooha , guess nintendo decided to do this after seeing Wiiware's wads all over the internet , it's kinda late tho cuz wiiware devs lose money past two months .

now they need to change some stuff on the board to kill stupid modchips in all future Wii units

I still have Freeloaders in stock =(

 

[phalestine]

the funny thing is that the homebrew channel looks as good as, if not better than, some of nintendo's own channels.

Yeah and the banner and music are really kickass. I wait a few seconds before entering the HBC just to listen to that little medley :/

 

[Mejilan]

Tetris was funny, Linux failed to load, and I have no use for the Gecko Region Free utility, at the moment. Still, it was kind of fun.

Now... SHALL I UPDATE TO 3.3!?

 

[blu]

Of course, now I'm actually nervous about updating to Wii OS 3.3. Haha.

well, mission accomplished ; )

 

[carlos]

wooha , guess nintendo decided to do this after seeing Wiiware's wads all over the internet , it's kinda late tho cuz wiiware devs lose money past two months .

Well honestly, I've done a quick investigation of torrent sites (public and private) and scene sites with http downloads, and yes, while the games are easily available, I was surprised at the low number of people downloading them.

I don't quite remember now, but the number was under 1000 downloads total (each), even for the most popular games. I don't think they're losing that much, since even those 1000 downloaders probably weren't going to buy, and just pirate for the thrill of screwing with the system.

But yeah, I'm sure that's what motivated nintendo to (try to) close the hack...

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Tetris was funny, Linux failed to load, and I have no use for the Gecko Region Free utility, at the moment. Still, it was kind of fun.

Now... SHALL I UPDATE TO 3.3!?

Cmon, do it in the interests of science!

 

[phalestine]

Tetris was funny, Linux failed to load, and I have no use for the Gecko Region Free utility, at the moment. Still, it was kind of fun.

Now... SHALL I UPDATE TO 3.3!?

yeah go for it. I updated to 3.3 and have the HBC, so far so good. but who knows what might happen in the future.

 

[Mejilan]

TESTING CONNECTION...

Update complete. 3.3U installed. A bit anticlimactic. Sorry.

 

[Kreed]

But that isn't what is happening right? Your legitimate Wii system is rejecting a legitimate retail disk for a very know and obvious reason. Playing imported games is not a kosher.

If playing retail imported copies was something that was kosher with Nintendo they wouldn't put the region lock out in the first place.

You tell em 31 Flavas! Nintendo doesn't want you participating in non kosher activities. That's exactly why you can't play games like Jump Ultimate Superstars, Bleach DS 2, Gyakuten Saiban and Ouendan on an non Japanese Nintendo DS.

...wait

 

[Mejilan]

Yeah, I was gonna bring up that the GB, GBC, GBA, GBA SP, GBmicro, DS, and DSL are all region free, but... *shrugs*

 

[TreIII]

TESTING CONNECTION...

Update complete. 3.3U installed. A bit anticlimactic. Sorry.

How very.

STILL! I think you should go back and install that region-free utility any way. You never know when such a thing may come in handy. And what harm will it do, since you're not using the channel for anything else any way? :lol

 

[Mejilan]

At this point, there's no "installing". All I need to do is properly set up the homebrew on my SD card and voila, it'll be accessible via the HBC. I still have GCN Linux, the Gecko Loader, and Tetris on my SD card. I didn't get rid of them.

I skipped out on the rest of the package of recommended apps (the N64 emulator, ScummVM, etc.) Left it at just those 3 for now. Nothing really all that intriguing out there, outside of emulation, and I'm just not interested in that.

 

[TreIII]

Ahh, I getcha.

Well, in any case...I guess I'll get around to installing that channel myself soon enough. I have no intentions of giving up my "right" to import perfectly legit Japanese games.

 

[31 Flavas]

Relax. No need to get huffy or insulting. I'm playing devil's advocate here. I have a US Wii. I live in the US. I do not own Wii Freeloader and the only "imports" I've purchased for the system were released here on via the VC. I don't NEED to hack my Wii. I merely WANT to. For the fun of it. And I'd never install a modchip. The only hardware mod I've ever done was to fix the horribly broken stock d-pad on the original model PSP.

There's lots of things that I want to do, myself. One of them being to play imported video games. I don't do this, though, and probably for many of the same reasons you don't. Chief among those being I don't want to brick my system or otherwise have it become non-functional from improper hacking or from an official patch (ala 3.3). In other words, its not worth it to me. If there was an import title that I just desperately had to play, i'd buy an import system with the game.

However, some advice, Junior. Accusing people here of engaging in piracy without any kind of proof is grounds for a banning. I'm assuming you were using the "general you" there, and not being at all accusatory. Wouldn't want to see you get banned over something so silly. And don't talk to me about kosher. I'm Jewish. ;p

Oh so you are going tell me not to get huffy or insulting, but then get huffy and insulting yourself? ;P

Well, gramps, you got served. Your backpedaling, changing the subject, and quoting the rules doesn't help.

Terrible example. It's not illegal to import games or consoles. It is it no way equivalent to breaking the speed limit.

[as well as]

There's nothing illegal about playing legitimately acquired imports. Period.

It is not illegal to import games, but that's just you trying to change the subject :lol Nor is it illegal to try to play imported games on your unhacked system, it's just bone headed.

Circumventing the region coding on your Wii system to play said imports, though, absolutely is. (The DMCA says, Hi!) But, whatever it is your system. Do as you please. Just don't come claiming false persecution later. Even excluding the DMCA, though, you have very little ground to stand on since you knew the risks getting into this or deluded yourself that they don't exist otherwise.

So if Nintendo kills your method of region circumvention through a patch, that doesn't legitimate any claim of yours, or others, that Nintendo is harming retail customers. Since they didn't want you buying or operating that software anyway.

 

[Mejilan]

I am curious about the Gecko loader though. I was how high compatibility is.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

At this point, there's no "installing". All I need to do is properly set up the homebrew on my SD card and voila, it'll be accessible via the HBC. I still have GCN Linux, the Gecko Loader, and Tetris on my SD card. I didn't get rid of them.

I skipped out on the rest of the package of recommended apps (the N64 emulator, ScummVM, etc.) Left it at just those 3 for now. Nothing really all that intriguing out there, outside of emulation, and I'm just not interested in that.

I dunno if the N64 emulator for Wii is Project64 but apparently, it'll allow you to play the Zelda N64 games in proper widescreen without stretching or cropping of the icons...

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Well on the Wii, they don't want region free for whatever reason. But i'm sure someone will get around this, and Nintendo will try to "fix" that as well

 

[31 Flavas]

You tell em 31 Flavas! Nintendo doesn't want you participating in non kosher activities. That's exactly why you can't play games like Jump Ultimate Superstars, Bleach DS 2, Gyakuten Saiban and Ouendan on an non Japanese Nintendo DS.

...wait

Ahh, but we're not talking about Nintendo DS, we're talking about their Wii console system. And Wii very much does have region coding for control of software titles. It's Nintendo's bussiness so they call the shots. Currently they say that video game importation is kosher on the Nintendo DS, but not kosher on Wii.

You know its kind of like how Sony says video games on the PSP can be freely imported and played on any PSP regardless of where it is bought. But UMD video and music is still going to be region controlled.

 

[itxaka]

Circumventing the region coding on your Wii system to play said imports, though, absolutely is. (The DMCA says, Hi!) But, whatever it is your system. Do as you please. Just don't come claiming false persecution later. Even excluding the DMCA, though, you have very little ground to stand on since you knew the risks getting into this or deluded yourself that they don't exist otherwise.

For one, we are talking about pal users in here, and if you didn´t know, DMCA has nothing to do in europe.

Also, modchips has been ruled legal in some countries just because of the imports question, and the rigths to 1)do whatever you want on a console of your property and 2)play your ORIGINAL games so don´t come saying that there is no legal ground to it.

And third, the freeloader "apparently" doesn´t hack your console. It´s a normal disc that you put in an unmodified wii and it works. simply as that.

 

[mclem]

Circumventing the region coding on your Wii system to play said imports, though, absolutely is. (The DMCA says, Hi!)

The DMCA is not a UK law. There is an associated EU directive, and the UK has implemented part of it, but I don't know how much that covers; IANAL. However, I would guess that due to the recent lawsuit which found that a modded Xbox was not illegal over here, that would *suggest* that the same is true in this situation (of course, law is bizarre enough that I wouldn't put it past there being a special clause that means this is illegal whereas the xbox chip situation was not)

Even excluding the DMCA, though, you have very little ground to stand on since you knew the risks getting into this or deluded yourself that they don't exist otherwise

This is of course true, however. I'm somewhat surprised Nintendo even allow you to click 'no'

 

[The Faceless Master]

*stuff*
Circumventing the region coding on your Wii system to play said imports, though, absolutely is. (The DMCA says, Hi!) But, whatever it is your system. Do as you please. Just don't come claiming false persecution later. Even excluding the DMCA, though, you have very little ground to stand on since you knew the risks getting into this or deluded yourself that they don't exist otherwise.

a region lock is not a copy protection mechanism.

So if Nintendo kills your method of region circumvention through a patch, that doesn't legitimate any claim of yours, or others, that Nintendo is harming retail customers. Since they didn't want you buying or operating that software anyway.

what someone wants you to do with something doesn't matter once they sell it to you, as long as what you do with it is legal. i could buy 10,000 Wii consoles and build a small room in my back yard with them, nintendo wouldn't want that, since it would be impacting game sales and availability, but it would be perfectly legal.