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Wii U Community Thread

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ಠ_ಠ

CLICK DAT LINK

:D

*clicks link*
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:'(

Anybody here not interested in Ninja Gaiden U and how Nintendo has influenced the game?

You can only polish a turd so much :/

But seriously, what is it about its new direction that's not jiving with you? It won't suddenly become a good game, but whatever changes they've made are certainly improvements.

You guys do realize that this is a hardware thread, many things are still to be dealth with, we should focus on it.

For instance, the USB3.0 support, looks unlikely but it may be the .... "I told you so".

Pointing out ths this problem earlier may have caused notice by ninjas sooner, if at all.

As per nintendo's philosophy, the the hardware that will be integrated into WiiU is also going to lose cost extremely in the coming year or two, so is USB3.0.

I have great cause of concern how for the system which will depend upon external hard-drives will able to function better than current with these unnecessary bottlenecks, USB2 is extremely slow for today's standards.

They don't have to make all ports USB3.0, at least one is necessary.

Unless they have one trick upon their sleeve, which is a daring plan. That other idea is the LAN connection to PC share folders, ofcourse if they would go for it, heavy encrypting might be required for the stored data.

It is so much easier to just add 3.0 support. There may still be last minute change ... let me be optimistic. Somehow we need to get their attention up for this, games like Rage and particularly the software behind IDTech5 preferse to have much more data loading capabilies, the game's a unique environment, it does not use same texture patterns repeated as everything else, WiiU may suffer greately with the 30/MBs max transfer rate, those 8GB of flash are nothing, the Rage game was 21 GB for this generation however this was half of what they projected, the original plan was to fill a 50GB bluray disc for the PS3, however that would bring no benefit as the PS3 bluray read speed and seek was not nearly enough, to the added problems, sony does not allow more than 8GB reserved for installation, a very poor decision.

Seems to me like 3.0 is kinda overkill for games. 2.0 already fares much better than most, if not all, optical discs in use today.

But you may be right when it comes to future-proofing the console. Who knows how high PS4 and Nextbox will raise the bar? So much uncertainty right now.
 
Thanks for the responses lostinblue and lightchris, definitely now have a better understanding of its importance. Much appreciated! Crazy to think that those launch games are probably not even utilizing it all yet. Can't wait to see how the games will start look built from the ground up.
 
230917-13000sprites-Header.jpg

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/w6j71/13000_snes_jrpg_sprites_compiled_into_a_single/

Ahh 16-bit glory.

I think that's what everyone wants, even Nintendo haters.

I still don't get why people hate on Nintendo. Why hate? I understand that we all can be butthurt about some of the things Nintendo has done in the past, but why would you ban yourself from playing awesome games just because you hate the Wii right now?

Another new guy... following since WUST 2.

Ok, the games i will get for launch are...
Zombiu
Batman AC (Played the first on PS3, chose to wait for Wii U version)
Mass Effect3 (Painfully waiting for Wii U version)

Welcome! I will also be getting those three games. We need to support third parties if we really care about their support for Wii U.
 

Meelow

Banned
Square Enix talks about the Wii U

Julien Merceron: If you look at the recent Nintendo platforms, the DS, 3DS and the Wii, it seems like they are trying to avoid aligning too much with Sony's and Microsoft's strategies. They are trying to take a different path, a different perspective on things. The type of entertainment they provide focuses not so much on graphics or immersion, but more on high-quality and innovative gameplay. They try to be different, they try to find a different market and they try to solve problems that they perceive as being the most important to solve today. So yeah, Microsoft and Sony are trying to solve different sets of problems. Their focus from a consumer perspective is completely different.

I strongly believe that the Wii U is going to provide new ways of interacting with games and there is definitely a community out there that is interested in that. Now there will definitely be another community that won't be too interested in this, and will be interested more in Hollywood blockbuster type of games with cinematic gameplay experiences.

So really I think that if I take a step back on this, I think it is one of the best times for consumers. Today, you can play on iOS, the web, the 360, PS3, Wii, Vita and so many other platforms. Because of the differences, they get a wide variety of experiences. I think it has probably never been as great as today to be a video game player and Nintendo is helping to bring this variety. We saw on the Wii that they helped broaden the market and it benefits everyone. iOS is helping to broaden that market as well. Maybe in five or six years these players will be hardcore players. I would say that all the work Apple and Nintendo are doing today to broaden the market will be one day beneficial to Sony and Microsoft. I hope the new platforms that Sony and Microsoft are making will choose different directions to offer even more variety and diversity for gamers.
 

Meelow

Banned
Nothing but the usual chitchat. Thanks anyway.

There's actually an interesting remark. Thanks.



That's not how it works SE. Either you get the consumers where they are (iOS/Wii) and slowly try to get them accustomed to 'hardcore games' or you don't get them. It's also pretty telling for SE if they really think that they can just shit on an entire market in the hope that they'll sooner or later flock to 'teh hardcorez'. This is so delusional it's not even funny and it could also be used as a justification of not supporting Nintendo because "these players will be hardcore players".

I don't think they meant it like what you think...
 

AzaK

Member
Square Enix talks about the Wii U

A lot of text to say "We're not doing our cinematic games on Wii U"

The developer bullshit just keeps flowing wrt Wii U. Why the hell are these people seeing only the casual side of Wii U? Why are they ignoring the power of the machine and the online focus, and the gamepad options for really "core" games?
 

Meelow

Banned
A lot of text to say "We're not doing our cinematic games on Wii U"

The developer bullshit just keeps flowing wrt Wii U. Why the hell are these people seeing only the casual side of Wii U? Why are they ignoring the power of the machine and the online focus, and the gamepad options for really "core" games?

They're putting Dragon Quest X on Wii U, so that's good, and I don't think they meant it like that.
 

Meelow

Banned
You can bet that when they say "These people will be hardcore players." or "...will be one day beneficial to Sony and Microsoft" they're really thinking that all the potential customers they've ignored will still become 'real' gamers and thus some day be 'real' customers.

I don't understand what that has to do with the Wii U though?.

They make it clear that they think their traditional audience is not going to be on Wii U, which - given how they're putting a tremendous focus on 'cinematic experiences' - should be interpreted as "We're not going to support Wii U except for shovelware." until they prove the obvious conclusion wrong.

Now your just jumping to conclusions, Dragon Quest X helps the Wii U's case and if what you think Square meant than they will have to see the sales of Dragon Quest X on Wii and Wii U.
 

Meelow

Banned
They make it pretty clear they don't expect their traditional audience at Wii U. Now as I've mentioned I believe that you need to work to get those casual gamers to play your 'hardcore games', which would mean they'd have to support Wii U, lest they're losing a future market.

They obviously believe that this is not necessary, but that instead these people will naturally flock to the 'real' consoles in the future. They're essentially shooting down two possible reasons for supporting Wii U, namely "We might find an audience for our games there." and "We have to support the platform to draw in more people into a market that this gen didn't generate enough money.".

Wouldn't that also hit Microsoft?, Microsoft wants to gain the casual audience while Nintendo wants to gain the core audience, the Wii U is just as real of a console the PS4 and 720 will be.

Like I said before please don't jump to conclusions.
 
I really hope someone manages to dissect a Wii U soon, it's getting ridiculous how everyone's still making polar opposite statements about what the hardware's really capable of.
 
A lot of text to say "We're not doing our cinematic games on Wii U"

The developer bullshit just keeps flowing wrt Wii U. Why the hell are these people seeing only the casual side of Wii U? Why are they ignoring the power of the machine and the online focus, and the gamepad options for really "core" games?
Because they are dumb, really.

I understand that 3rd Parties were surprised at the beginning of this generation, because they've been used to another business model (one dominating system with good 3rd party sales).


Well, it happened that they brought shovelware to the market leader and PS360 development costs were huge.

But they just don't learn. They didn't manage to find a successfull solution for the home-console market and now they're hoping for iOS and F2P, both suck, the first more than the latter.

What will happen is that they wan't to get money out of both markets and don't specialice on their problems, just creating more problems.
 

AzaK

Member
I really hope someone manages to dissect a Wii U soon, it's getting ridiculous how everyone's still making polar opposite statements about what the hardware's really capable of.

Thing is we have on one side people who have knowledge about consoles and do their research telling us one thing and then random people who see some crappy blog site say it's the same as a 360 on the other.

It's not hard to take a pretty good punt as to which is correct.
 
If the WiiU RAM Memory, if the 512MB requirement is indeed real, therefore I suspect nintendo may unlock some of that reserved memory, it is still very unlikely that the whole OS and all other features would take this massive amount of memory, and I expect nintendo's software to be well polished therefore optimized to be more efficient in resources, I do not expect any big problems by trivial software mistakes because of development negligence. My personal experience shows me that stability was often not an issue in nintendo's devices.

Unless these 512MB of "restricted memory" is a simple mistake of misquoting the storage memory, 512MB of storage reserved for OS is nothing to be concerned of, but 512MB RAM is a heck of a lot for a console. The fact remains, at most they may reach 200-250 MB of RAM if they pack in all the stuff they can think and what we know, except there is only one thing, the web browsing, if you are able to activate home menu from a suspended game, therefore

I have constructed a solution for that, quite easy, the suspended game could easily be saved onto the harddrive or flash memory into a specific file that stores raw data from memory, similarly to how hiberfil.sys works on Windows, therefore your suspended game is not taking any RAM at all while you can browse the menus and web, it will just take more time to get it suspended, and revived because all the memory would take time to write on flash or HDD. I hope nintendo have though of this. I have not yet though practical uses for this but I have thought of this idea some months ago I may have forgotten every details, I was not able to post on neogaf for over 1 year, I am unable to write down responses for everything that has passed these 6 months, but i do have a ton load of bookmarks from the speculation threads, this is another story i continued below.

For nintendo they must evaluate the real circumstances, until they will build their online systems finally, their extended features and the finalization with the OS, the final + reserve RAM requirements will be estimated, from there they will be able to evaluate how much can be okay to unlock.

As this is one of my first posts on Neogaf, I have choosed to present my self on this occasion, as I am primarly a hardware discussion enthusiast, I don't think about stuff like Price, Release Date, Software Lineup prior release. I shall cross that bridge when I come to it.

It is also unlikely that I will personally buy the WiiU device on launch, firstly, there may not be any games for me as I only play the high-end first-party AAAs and althought ZombieU is impressive it, alone it cannot sustain me, I have zero interest for western 3rd-parties on an nintendo system in general, unless they are good enough, I wish Soul Calibur to return, I also wish to see something from ID Software on the system, to show the industry what's possible, to shut down some big mouths.

Through-out this year I have been heavily following WiiU news on all fronts including neogaf. As the poet writer IdeaMan posed, he was actually correct in a capacity, however his ideas thought are not toally technologically correct in some areas, some of the theorizing and speculation wrapped around the actual small amount of information is inaccurate, admittingly as it seems most of the extended text was some form of suggestive analysis, opinion influcening , which is not a good thing factually therefore poetry, but it keept the people busy at least. Not to mention the fact some of the stuff may have been outdated, as well as the negative press, those were all outdated rumors, bs and april fools.

So, yes for the last 4 months I have been actively gathering the info, didn't had a clue before that, it was a pain in the butt, had to look all back to know what's going on, a lot of analysis, a month passed I finally understood this whole thing to be well enough for posting so I settled at http://thewiiu.com forums and posted there extensively for some time, It's very technical so can't mention all of it all at once don't even recall my self right now.

I just will summarize that I do agree with the GPU temporary add-in idea, and that the specs they are reporting are dev kits, it may be different in retail, devkits may change after release as well.
Second, the RAM was our most unknown variable and most important one, most of my efforts were on this, it is the most important factor that decides longevity of the device, all of the other components are good enough either way under than expected or above, they will be much more powerful than Wii and enable much greater first-party experience that I seek, however the lack or RAM may have cause great wastage of resources if it's bottlenecking the gaming experience.
Third, the specs leak has been purposelly constructed to conceal estimation of the device's performance, technically it is not very detailed, it may indicate some things, however it is practically useless. Most of the discussion is pointless on this, yet many of them do it, they are wasting time.
Fourth, not technical this time, .... excuse the writting, that is when i get overly excited, my grammar and english crumble down as i type fast, I want my F-Zero UX.

I think there may be some miscommunication regarding the 512MB of Ram for the OS rumour.

I think it will turn out that 512MB's of the 8GB Flash Drive will be needed for the OS to be stored.

PS360 both use under 100MB for their OS's and considering Windows 7 for PC only uses 1GB of Ram, there is no way i can see Wii U, using 512MB of system Ram for it's OS.

Maybe Ideaman or someone who has a source can confirm or deny the Ram factor :).
 
Thing is we have on one side people who have knowledge about consoles and do their research telling us one thing and then random people who see some crappy blog site say it's the same as a 360 on the other.

It's not hard to take a pretty good punt as to which is correct.

True, but the same 'informed' people were telling us it would run UE4 and were talking about far more powerful hardware. I just don't want to get my hopes up too high and be completely disappointed aha
 

Meelow

Banned
Edit:


I'd rather say you are in denial. The Dragon Quest franchise is extremely far away from the direction they've been going in (see e.g. Crystal Dynamics or Final Fantasy) with the rest of the company, i.e. "cinematic experience". It's essentially almost a casual franchise and its sales mean for the rest of the company (due to the different direction).

You think the sales of a game like Zelda ever meant something to 3rd parties ? DQ selling well is not going to persuade them that there's a 'coregamer' audience on Wii U.

I'm not in denial, I really don't think Square or Julien Merceron meant what you think it means, Square is hugely supporting the 3DS and those games sale, Square isn't just going to look at the Wii U and be like "we will only bring shovel ware to the Wii U while we bring the real games to the PS4/720" I would find that really stupid and Square can't be that stupid to think that will happen before the Wii U isn't even out, with the Wii Nintendo wanted to gain a new audience and they did that, with the Wii U Nintendo wants to gain amazing third party support, are they doing that?, we don't 100% know yet but Nintendo knows that the casual gamers are very unpredictable and Nintendo saw that when the casual gamers didn't jump ship to the Move on a more powerful console.

And you know what gets me too, they're are people that assuming Nintendo will be the "casuals" next gen like this gen and Sony and Microsoft will be for "core" gamers with all the third party support, not everything repeats it self and who knows what Sony and Microsoft wants with the PS4/720.

I hope you don't mind, but it's almost 1:30 am over here and the last thing I need before going to bed is a heated argument, because trust me, that's what I'd get into if I continued this discussion right now.

Nintendo wants to gain the core audience ? That seems like an empty promise right now, anything else is just flat out denial.
Microsoft wants to gain the casual audience ? Sure, but I can't see them lose the 'core' audience anytime soon. Their image is way better than Nintendo's in that regard and they'll have 3rd party support nonetheless, unlike Nintendo (and Wii U).

I'm not fighting with you, I'm just think that people shouldn't assume what will happen next gen, Sony wasn't the king this gen like they where with the PS1 and PS2, Sony lost some third party support with the PS3, and this time Nintendo had the best selling console when they had the lesser selling consoles for the past 2 gens before this one, I am just saying people shouldn't assume that Nintendo won't gain the third party support and that the Wii U will be for "casuals" like the Wii was, anything can happen next gen, we saw that this gen.
 

Stewox

Banned
USB 3 would be nice but is hardly necessary. A USB 2.0 hard drive will probably hit about 30 mega bytes per second peak. A 4x blu-ray drive will read at 18 mega bytes per second. That leaves plenty of overhead when streaming data from an external hard drive. I don't think USB 2.0 will affect gameplay much if it all. If anything playing a game installed to an external hard drive will be slightly faster than reading it from the optical drive.

Have you played Rage and you understand exactly what i'm talking about ?

And watched countless john carmack interviews, quakecon videos, probably more than 10 times over by now. I was following that game very very closely, still waiting for mod tools.

Unfortunately the community cannot demonstrate this techology well since the tools have taken so long to release, they are in QA now, not sure if by the end of summer. I can gather information into a post but if somebody requests, it is work because I have to search out all my bookmarks and through all the stuff.
 

Meelow

Banned
The world is full of idiots. The sooner you accept this, the sooner you learn to understand all the bullshit that happens in this industry.

And please stop saying that Nintendo wants to gain amazing 3rd party support. Right now that's just PR bullshit, just look at some of the comments we've had (most notably Kojima or Crystal Dynamics) or at all the current gen games not coming to Wii U, look at the 3rd party games we get (mostly old ports) and look at the next gen games that were (notably) not announced for Wii U.

I wish you were right, but most evidence points towards the opposite. Have a good night/day, I'm off to bed.

I'm going to say this before you go, Nintendo only announced launch games at E3, that is confirmed, we have no idea if it's "bullshit" because the Wii U isn't even out yet, those next gen games and multiplatform games are coming out next year, we know that Nintendo is going to announce 2013 Wii U games at they're Fall Conference.

It also takes time to gain amazing third party support, Sony took 3 years to get the PS3 to have amazing third party support, and everyone supported the PS1 and PS2, Nintendo just has to prove it, sorry if you think I'm wrong but people should never assume before we know.
 
I think there may be some miscommunication regarding the 512MB of Ram for the OS rumour.

I think it will turn out that 512MB's of the 8GB Flash Drive will be needed for the OS to be stored.

PS360 both use under 100MB for their OS's and considering Windows 7 for PC only uses 1GB of Ram, there is no way i can see Wii U, using 512MB of system Ram for it's OS.

Maybe Ideaman or someone who has a source can confirm or deny the Ram factor :).

I think we need to revisit how the 512MB OS thing started. Ozfunghi (I believe) was asking Ideaman about the OS. Ideaman was talking about it from the perspective of the fourth kit. Oz began giving out numbers of which the largest he said was either ~512MB or >512MB. Ideaman agreed only in the sense that from the dev kit's perspective this fit. From there we began to discuss that while the DK had larger than 512MB allocated to OS and other functions, we began to focus on that as a possible max due to how large it may have been in the DK. Ideaman never said or indicated the final OS would be 512MB. And it's very possible at launch that it is less than 512MB.
 

Pineconn

Member
The world is full of idiots.

The world is full of idiots, but also geniuses and average people. Reserve judgment until at least one year after launch.

I accept that we won't get everything. RE6, GTA5, Bioshock? Who knows, but other top games are coming. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Bioshock Infinite comes at one point.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
I wouldn't take what non Japanese based SE people say about things too seriously, at least if we are talking about the traditional SE Japanese software.
 
I think we need to revisit how the 512MB OS thing started. Ozfunghi (I believe) was asking Ideaman about the OS. Ideaman was talking about it from the perspective of the fourth kit. Oz began giving out numbers of which the largest he said was either ~512MB or >512MB. Ideaman agreed only in the sense that from the dev kit's perspective this fit. From there we began to discuss that while the DK had larger than 512MB allocated to OS and other functions, we began to focus on that as a possible max due to how large it may have been in the DK. Ideaman never said or indicated the final OS would be 512MB. And it's very possible at launch that it is less than 512MB.

Am i right in thinking that Nintendo have yet to show off their second half of the OS ?, im under the impression that Miiverse is only half the story.

If Wii U's OS does indeed use 512MB of Ram then it should be pretty special and blow anything away yet seen on XBL or PSN.

Im imagining video chat will be the big selling point regarding the OS.

I think most of the next Nintendo Direct will focus on the OS and Online aspects of the system.
 

AzaK

Member
True, but the same 'informed' people were telling us it would run UE4 and were talking about far more powerful hardware. I just don't want to get my hopes up too high and be completely disappointed aha

Well the people I'm talking about (bg etc) seem to think UE4 should be fine, just maybe cut down feature/effect wise due to the lesser power of Wii U compared to 720/PS4/PC.

Am i right in thinking that Nintendo have yet to show off their second half of the OS ?, im under the impression that Miiverse is only half the story.
If Wii U's OS does indeed use 512MB of Ram then it should be pretty special and blow anything away yet seen on XBL or PSN.
Im imagining video chat will be the big selling point regarding the OS.
I think most of the next Nintendo Direct will focus on the OS and Online aspects of the system.

Nintendo have probably shown about 5% of what we'll see. We've only seen some Miis gathering around some icons. No gamepad menu, no settings, no chat, no built in apps, no online, no store etc.
 

Meelow

Banned
Am i right in thinking that Nintendo have yet to show off their second half of the OS ?, im under the impression that Miiverse is only half the story.

If Wii U's OS does indeed use 512MB of Ram then it should be pretty special and blow anything away yet seen on XBL or PSN.

Im imagining video chat will be the big selling point regarding the OS.

I think most of the next Nintendo Direct will focus on the OS and Online aspects of the system.

Yeah, that's what I think too.
 
Am i right in thinking that Nintendo have yet to show off their second half of the OS ?, im under the impression that Miiverse is only half the story.

If Wii U's OS does indeed use 512MB of Ram then it should be pretty special and blow anything away yet seen on XBL or PSN.

Im imagining video chat will be the big selling point regarding the OS.

I think most of the next Nintendo Direct will focus on the OS and Online aspects of the system.

I don't know how much they really shown. It could be 5% like Azak, it could be half, it could be most. I'm drawing a blank on if Nintendo gave any indication last month.

True, but the same 'informed' people were telling us it would run UE4 and were talking about far more powerful hardware. I just don't want to get my hopes up too high and be completely disappointed aha

As Azak mentioned me, I never said it would run UE4 and talked about far more powerful hardware. I don't recall anyone doing that actually. All the talk has been about running a reduced version of it, which Sweeney has even indicated this is possible.
 

10k

Banned
And why would extra RAM increase framerate?I'm interested.

Tecmo's Ninja Team are technically good and they have the technological basis to build a good game; of course they didn't because they blew it trying to appeal to westerners, but could be salvageable to an extent.I believe what they meant is that single controller get's 60 Hz refresh right now, but if you go with two controllers then it'll be 30 hz x2; it's probably dividing by two the original available bandwidth for wireless video transfer sans lag.
Video ram and the GPU itself are importsnt contributors for framerate. The Wii U has 3x more than the hd Twins and a more efficient processor (having a dedicated audio processor frees up many CPU resources).
 
Am i right in thinking that Nintendo have yet to show off their second half of the OS ?, im under the impression that Miiverse is only half the story.

If Wii U's OS does indeed use 512MB of Ram then it should be pretty special and blow anything away yet seen on XBL or PSN.

Im imagining video chat will be the big selling point regarding the OS.

I think most of the next Nintendo Direct will focus on the OS and Online aspects of the system.

If we use "dev kit logic" then the OS for the Wii U should be about 256MB or less.......I'm hoping for 128MB or less since I would prefer most of the 2GB of ram going to the games.
 

10k

Banned
I remember reading somewhere in the WUST's that some 360 games used up 50% of the CPU's resources just from audio processing? Is this true?

Even if using a CPU to process audio takes up 25% of resources, that's 25% freed up for the Wii U. So assuming the Wii U's processor is on par with 360's Xenos in clock speeds and flops etc, having a DSP alone will make it a more powerful and useful CPU over the 360. Combine that with the fact it's supposed to be OoO (making AI more realistic) and it has 3x the RAM (Faster Ram too) and a GPGPU and basically i know the Wii U smokes the 360. I'm more worried about how it stacks with the PS4720
 

USC-fan

Banned
I remember reading somewhere in the WUST's that some 360 games used up 50% of the CPU's resources just from audio processor? Is this true?

Even if using a CPU to process audio takes up 25% of resources, that's 25% freed up for the Wii U. So assuming the Wii U's processor is on par with 360's Xenos in clock speeds and flops etc, having a DSP alone will make it a more powerful and useful CPU over the 360. Combine that with the fact it's supposed to be OoO (making AI more realistic) and it has 3x the RAM (Faster Ram too) and a GPGPU and basically i know the Wii U smokes the 360. I'm more worried about how it stacks with the PS4720

hmmmmm a lot wrong in this post...

Its a DSP, Out of order cpu and more ram. That is about everything. Everything else is out there....
 

NBtoaster

Member
I remember reading somewhere in the WUST's that some 360 games used up 50% of the CPU's resources just from audio processing? Is this true?

No, one thread at most.

On PS3, here is an image showing what the cpu and gpu are processing in Killzone 2. Only a tiny amount is for audio.

600x-1
 

10k

Banned
No, one thread at most.

On PS3, here is an image showing what the cpu and gpu are processing in Killzone 2. Only a tiny amount is for audio.

600x-1
Ah ok then. It looks like 10% in that pic. I guessine thread in a core tops. Thanks for clarifying.
 
No, one thread at most.

On PS3, here is an image showing what the cpu and gpu are processing in Killzone 2. Only a tiny amount is for audio.

600x-1

Correct me if I am wrong because I am basically a luddite. How can you bring up a graph of what the PS3 uses for sound processing, when the original point you are refuting was about the 360 and how much of it's CPU was being used?
 

NBtoaster

Member
Correct me if I am wrong because I am basically a luddite. How can you bring up a graph of what the PS3 uses for sound processing, when the original point you are refuting was about the 360 and how much of it's CPU was being used?

Because I doubt there's any significant difference between how long PS3 and 360 spend on sound. The KZ2 chart should give you an idea of audio load for most current gen games relative to what else the cpu and gpu do.
 

Xellos

Member
Square Enix said:
I strongly believe that the Wii U is going to provide new ways of interacting with games and there is definitely a community out there that is interested in that. Now there will definitely be another community that won't be too interested in this, and will be interested more in Hollywood blockbuster type of games with cinematic gameplay experiences.

Hopefully Mr. Merceron will realize that these communities are not mutually exclusive.
 
And why is my post always at the end of the page? Ehh, who knows?

All I know is if I get one game like Xenoblade Chronicles in HD all of this talk about flips and flops RAM and DSPs goes out the window and I will be a happy customer.

I have to worry about the poor sales of that game on Wii though and how that bodes for Monolith Soft going forward. That is genuinely the only thing I worry about; When Nintendo makes or publishes more core oriented expensive games that I think are some of the best, and then they don't really sell that well it bothers me.

F-ZERO GX 650,000
Eternal Darkness 400,00
XenoBlade Chronicles 650,000
 
And why is my post always at the end of the page? Ehh, who knows?

All I know is if I get one game like Xenoblade Chronicles in HD all of this talk about flips and flops RAM and DSPs goes out the window and I will be a happy customer.

I have to worry about the poor sales of that game on Wii though and how that bodes for Monolith Soft going forward. That is genuinely the only thing I worry about; When Nintendo makes or publishes more core oriented expensive games that I think are some of the best, and then they don't really sell that well it bothers me.

F-ZERO GX 650,000
Eternal Darkness 400,00
XenoBlade Chronicles 650,000

So long as things like NSMB, Mario Kart, Wii Fit, and Animal Crossing continue to sell ridiculously well. Like Just Dance for Ubisoft, they help fund the more expensive games with smaller appeal, I imagine.
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
So long as things like NSMB, Mario Kart, Wii Fit, and Animal Crossing continue to sell ridiculously well. Like Just Dance for Ubisoft, they help fund the more expensive games with smaller appeal, I imagine.

There are some great avenues for Nintendo to salvage their lower selling intellectual properties.

1. Release B-C franchise game (Metroid, F-Zero, Star Fox) with an exclusive demo of A franchise game (Super Mario Galaxy 3, The Legend of Zelda U).

2. Create well balanced dlc ecosystem for B-C franchise games. If Fire Emblem or Punch-Out can only muster 500k sales, well support the game with pseudo expansions through DLC and keep earning revenue from the dedicated consumer base. Bold on the expansions (like Blizzard and Rockstar do) not the shameful dlc where you sell avatar t-shirts and guns.
 
There are some great avenues for Nintendo to salvage their lower selling intellectual properties.

1. Release B-C franchise game (Metroid, F-Zero, Star Fox) with an exclusive demo of A franchise game (Super Mario Galaxy 3, The Legend of Zelda U).

2. Create well balanced dlc ecosystem for B-C franchise games. If Fire Emblem or Punch-Out can only muster 500k sales, well support the game with pseudo expansions through DLC and keep earning revenue from the dedicated consumer base. Bold on the expansions (like Blizzard and Rockstar do) not the shameful dlc where you sell avatar t-shirts and guns.

Or include DLC minigames for them in Nintendoland prior to release.

Or puzzles for 3DS.

Fire Emblem DLC seemed to work for a while, too.
 

StevieP

Banned
hmmmmm a lot wrong in this post...

Its a DSP, Out of order cpu and more ram. That is about everything. Everything else is out there....

It's not out there. He got the percentage wrong.
There are some games on the 360 where audio processing does take up an entire core.
 

Terrell

Member
Pretty much. If this generation has shown anything, it's that they shouldn't assume that any one console maker is going to make a dud or a stud of a console - and that they might want to spread their bets around a bit.

Perhaps with the exceptions of Ubi (whom I'm still surprised at) and a few Japanese developers, it's seeming like a pretty big lesson that was missed. We'll get to see what the consequences will be this time around, if any.

Oh, there is gonna be consequences, alright. Western studios making almost nothing but Hollywood blockbuster-esque games for consoles that don't have Hollywood blockbuster-esque AUDIENCE BASES? Yeah, I see that working out super-terrible for them.

I really hope they fully understand their games won't sell as good as their counterparts.
First of all because some of them are old ports and new content just won't make it more desirable than a brand new game and secondly because this is the first time Nintendo gets this type of games.

Just to point out AFAIK Batman Arkham City has sold over 6 million copies worldwide but I just don't see Armored Edition selling more than 400k even IF Warner promotes the hell out of the game

Just counting the west, if we consider that half of 360/PS3 owners also own a Wii (which is likely an over-estimation), that's still 15 million people who are more likely to buy a Wii U than a new Xbox or PS4. That's 37 times the amount of people you estimate buying a Wii U version.

Just putting that number out there.
 

10k

Banned
It's not out there. He got the percentage wrong.
There are some games on the 360 where audio processing does take up an entire core.
Yea the percentage was a guess. All I said was I read somewhere where some 360 games use a whole core or so for audio. I don't remember which WUST it was.
 

StevieP

Banned
Which games?

Mr. kb-smoker, you know who bkilian is I'm sure.

bkilian said:
On the XBox 360, audio mixing for a normal game can use as much as two full hardware threads, 1/3 of the CPU dedicated to audio. That's not even considering complex games like car racers, where each vehicle can have dozens of voices and complex filters. That's hugely wasteful in terms of cost. A general purpose CPU is just not optimised for audio processing.

The difference is that a CPU core costs you dollars, and a DSP core costs you pennies. That's why almost all mobile architectures have dedicated audio silicon. By far the most popular request my team gets from game devs is "Make audio cheaper!". Just running a single good reverb will completely blow the L1 and L2 cache, and require ridiculous amounts of memory bandwidth. We support 320 simultaneous voices on the 360 (that's how many the XMA hardware will decode at a time). AAA games use all of them. Even plants vs zombies uses over 100 and most of a core, _just for audio_. If we were to have the choice of adding a full core to the 360 or a DSP that can handle the same load. We'd probably choose the DSP, since it would be vastly cheaper in BOM and essentially give devs an extra 50% CPU for game logic.
 

USC-fan

Banned
Mr. kb-smoker, you know who bkilian is I'm sure.

Sure but that was touch on at beyond3d. That not the normal use. As he says he only hears about the problems.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1596879&postcount=8055


Originally Posted by archangelmorph
Also regarding audio,
I'd be thoroughly worried if we had an audio system running over 2 CPU threads for the entire frame...

I'd be intrigued to hear some details on what kind of audio processing you have going on that requires such heavy overheads bkilian...?
I tend to see the degenerate cases, since developers that are having no problems don't tend to contact us. Also most developers nowadays use third party audio software like fmod, and we don't often hear from them. However, a popular car racing game uses over 500 simultaneous DSP effects just for the cars, they can go to over a thousand when you add in the non vehicle systems.

(*) for a non zero value of "no one". It did get used by a few developers.

As others have stated having this chip can add problems for third party engines design without this in mind.
Personally I think audio should be fully integrated into the game engine though as much as possible, so it would require some good design to integrate a separate audio chip effectively. For instance if the dedicated audio chip does reverb, then it needs to be able to be controlled to a very high degree. In this respect I like what people like Naughty Dog have been able to do in Uncharted 2 (not sure they kept it in 3 though), and I was actually hoping we would get that more or less standard next gen.

I am wondering if a dedicated audio hardware is really necessary, or whether it can be integrated in the GPU design. Does audio really require such different type of hardware as anything else that can process streams properly? If you do FXAA on the 360, can't you use the same type of calculations for audio?

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1596695&postcount=8050

But given the specs of wiiu i believe it a really good thing to have a audio DSP.
 

brainpann

Member
I thought the rumor was that the dev kits had 3GB of RAM and the final system would have 2GB? Are you saying that they just devoted 1GB of RAM to something different completely or just the OS?

Someone care to clarify?

Devkits typically have double the amount of ram that retail hardware will have. This is for debugging/development purposes, therefore, if the Wii U devkit has 3GB ram, then the Wii U will probably ship with 1.5GB (accessible).
 

Drago

Member
Changed my avatar back to Kirby... SackDax is cool, but it's just not for me. :p

Anyways, does anyone think that the huge focus on digital distribution will really help increase the number of more niche localizations?

I want it to, and it would make them more profitable if they succeed (not having to print and distribute copies), but I don't know if it would really increase the number of them dramatically.
 
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