ShockingAlberto
Member
I question Iwata's practices a lot, but wishing for someone to lose their job in this day and age seems kinda fucked up
Welcome to the Wii U Speculation Thread.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Wii U Community Thread
- Thread starter Metroid Hunter
- Start date
- Status
Welcome to the Wii U Speculation Thread.
lostinblue
Banned
Like with the Wii, DS and 3DS then. I'm guessing we'll see some Metal Gear remake tech demo get confirmation it is in the works and end up with a direct port then. (lol)
That or nothing, "nothing" happened before too. But Kojima, Nomura and all those visionaries with a romantic vision of the real quality of their work vs investment are being pressured into multiplatform like never before; Kojima couldn't pull MGS4 as a PS3 exclusive today and Nomura couldn't possibly see Versus XIII greenlit for PS3 alone at this point; it's a miracle it's still regarded as exclusive actually.
Not so sure about that; they're certainly more interested about exclusives than ports; and they still won't pay for it.
Nintendo also knows that if they do pay for stuff like that they'll be setting themselves up for some blackmail later on, with publishers threatening to pull support if money doesn't fall on their laps.
No. Welcome to NeoGaf.
Wow and here I was thinking the code couldn't be deciphered!
Yeah, I've been here since 2, but even then, that's going a little bit too far.
Not really sarcasm, no. I didn't expect him to lose his job (or get close) I just wish something would change there with their approach and if Iwata has to go to get there, I'm OK with that although I'm not educated enough on possible replacements. I'm getting tired of core, mature gaming being ignored by Nintendo again and again, and their myopic focus on the blue ocean. It's now a very secondary endeavour to them because they have found an audience they can make lots of profits from due to the lower cost of entry. They really don't want to lose that, which is fine, but they are obsessed with it to the detriment of core, western gamers I feel.
Iwata has constantly been touting "We love the core! We need them!" and then going and pulling off an E3 like they did for the unveiling of their new console that he didn't even appear at. Add in a post E3 drought of core western support being announced and it's all looking like it's empty rhetoric and I'm sick of it. He managed to take a sky high share price and completely annihilate it due to extreme short-sightedness with the Wii and arrogance with the 3DS. As Iwata has alluded to before, a not insignificant part of this share destruction is due in a part to the inability of the Wii to capture the core third party titles and keep the core happy. We are the ones that keep the hype up and keep the sales motoring along because we are the nutters who buy lots of games.
They Wii was amazing, it really was, and did a shit tonne to bring other gamers into the mix, but based on what happened after about 3-4 years, it looks like it was lightning in a bottle at worse, and bad planning by Nintendo at best.
I am a NTDOY holder and recently bought some more because I feel that Nintendo will be doing reasonably well in the future. However, that isn't mutually exclusive to a change of management and attitude that I desire.
MadeInBeats
Banned
Can't remember anyone touching on this after E3,. but do you peeps remember the leaked pics of the Blockbuster WiiU list? Remember how there was no Killer Freaks on it, but there was a title called Zombie !! Do you think that was just a lucky guess as people said it's Blockbuster practice to populate their DB with best guess SKU data, or they actually had official data to go on?
I think there were both.
lostinblue
Banned
Crystal Dynamics?
Ah, I see it now: Gex: Enter the Wii U controller
And from Konami/Kojima...
Boktai: The Sun Is in U'r Hand 2, I guess.
MadeInBeats
Banned
Yeah, they were both there: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=473122&highlight=blockbuster
Still interesting how 'Zombie' was listed
I don't mean this to be an insult to you AzaK, but I am quite frankly sick of the label of core and casual base. What exactly is the core base anyway? People who like God of War, Call of Duty, and Uncharted, or just western games in general? I have been a gamer since I was five and my first gaming experience were Mario and Zelda. I guess I would be consider more on the hardcore side since I love RPGs, Zelda, and some shooters, but I also enjoy casual games like Animal Crossing, Wii Sports, ect. I don't feel like Nintendo has ignore me at all and I very happy with my collection of Wii games. I wish I could buy more actually, but I need to be reserved with my money.
I do agree that it would only help Nintendo to get more third-party along, but blaming Nintendo solely for the failure of third-party to make games for the Wii is simply rewriting history. Third-parites, specially the ones in the west, avoided the Wii because they wanted to support HD systems. They wanted bigger games and ignored the market leader. For some this worked out well like Epic. For others, this practice had brought many of them to the brick or a lost of a lot of money like Sega and EA, not including the companies that did die off completely.
I am not saying that you should be happy in what Nintendo doing or Iwata's business practice, but saying that Nintendo should fold to the will of third-parties to get them to support their console is not the wisest decision in my opinion. I think Nintendo is doing the right thing by making partnership instead of throwing money everywhere to get the latest 'core' game.
I do agree that it would only help Nintendo to get more third-party along, but blaming Nintendo solely for the failure of third-party to make games for the Wii is simply rewriting history. Third-parites, specially the ones in the west, avoided the Wii because they wanted to support HD systems. They wanted bigger games and ignored the market leader. For some this worked out well like Epic. For others, this practice had brought many of them to the brick or a lost of a lot of money like Sega and EA, not including the companies that did die off completely.
I am not saying that you should be happy in what Nintendo doing or Iwata's business practice, but saying that Nintendo should fold to the will of third-parties to get them to support their console is not the wisest decision in my opinion. I think Nintendo is doing the right thing by making partnership instead of throwing money everywhere to get the latest 'core' game.
Apophis2036
Banned
I don't want to piss on anyones parade but i would control the hype train for this event, esp after what happened at E3.
They have made it quite clear already that they will only be discussing and showing launch / launch window software in the run up to launch.
Does anyone really think they are going to show a new Zelda, Mario EAD, Metroid, Smash Bros or Retros game at a Nintendo Direct ?, i certainly don't, those games will be used as equalizers against PS4 and 720 at E3 2013.
I don't even think we would see Starfox, F Zero or Mario Kart revealed at a Nintendo Direct either to be honest.
I think the next one will focus more on the Wii U's OS, Online and maybe even a launch date and price if we are very lucky.
Go into it expecting just to see more of what we saw at E3 and if we get anything more or *shock horror* a big exclusive game announcement then we will be over the moon
.Will be interesting to see if there is any performance improvements from E3 aswell, esp on first party games as Wii U should be able to run Pikmin, Nintendo Land, NSMB U, Project P-100, Lego City at 1080p / 60 fps.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Shit, Batman and ME3 are such a step up. EA and Activision will drag everyone into the WiiU. Other companies won't let those two increase their marketshare.
shinra-bansho
Member
I'm not sure what people are smoking thinking Assassin's Creed 3 will sell 2M units. I could be off-base here, but it seems at odds with factors stacked against it.
The two most recent entries, Brotherhood and Revelations, sold-in 7M units, on a 120M installed base, in Ubisoft's third fiscal quarter. Assassin's Creed 2 sold 9M, across two fiscal quarters; so presumably a similar number in its launch quarter.
The previous four entries haven't been on the Wii.
Ergo, the expectation is that either the audience will grow by 20-30% with the launch of the Wii U, or that 20-30% of the audience will migrate to the new platform and buy the game there. That seems over-optimistic.
Frankly, the market that Nintendo appear to be targeting with the Wii U - i.e. the expanded audience - aren't the same target demographic as that of Assassin's Creed 3. And the game will launch alongside Nintendo's games targeting the expanded market anyway.
Furthermore, if the Wii U version launches with the system and the system launches in November - as people are predicting - it will miss the game's launch date, which would further impair any migration of the audience.
The one saving grace is that competition will be relatively low for the Assassin's Creed demographic - so they may have nothing much else to buy; but then that assumes that 2M HW units are bought by that demographic this Holiday.
The two most recent entries, Brotherhood and Revelations, sold-in 7M units, on a 120M installed base, in Ubisoft's third fiscal quarter. Assassin's Creed 2 sold 9M, across two fiscal quarters; so presumably a similar number in its launch quarter.
The previous four entries haven't been on the Wii.
Ergo, the expectation is that either the audience will grow by 20-30% with the launch of the Wii U, or that 20-30% of the audience will migrate to the new platform and buy the game there. That seems over-optimistic.
Frankly, the market that Nintendo appear to be targeting with the Wii U - i.e. the expanded audience - aren't the same target demographic as that of Assassin's Creed 3. And the game will launch alongside Nintendo's games targeting the expanded market anyway.
Furthermore, if the Wii U version launches with the system and the system launches in November - as people are predicting - it will miss the game's launch date, which would further impair any migration of the audience.
The one saving grace is that competition will be relatively low for the Assassin's Creed demographic - so they may have nothing much else to buy; but then that assumes that 2M HW units are bought by that demographic this Holiday.
This is pretty much how I feel in a nutshell. I have 25 Wii games, and 12 of them are 3rd party so I think I've been pretty fair given the overall quality of 3rd party titles on the Wii. I think bending over backwards for them would take away what makes Nintendo, Nintendo. Yeah, they could use more support and they could probably do more to get it than they have, but IMO the bulk of the blame falls directly on the divided mindset of this industry. Games are games, whether they are bloody curse filled war fests, or cute, cuddly, take care of your pet kind of games. I don't fall under a single label, and I would venture to say that most people in the real world don't either.
No offence taken at all, it's an extremely hard thing to find a single word to describe the set of games lacking on Wii. This is why I tend to use "core western mature" when talking about this subject which I guess narrows it down a bit. However, I do think most of us know what we mean when we say "core" "lack" and "Wii" in the same sentence.
Nintendo is not entirely to blame of course because third parties could have chosen to make the game on Wii. However Nintendo's single-minded chase for the casual, as well as not choosing to use easy to port tech (unified shaders, even if still SD and underpowered) showed me exactly what their priorities were.
I agree that Nintendo shouldn't fold to western developers as they are obsessed with power without any real regard for the platform holder losing billions. However, Nintendo are conservative to a T with regard to pricing, cost and profit and I feel there is room for movement there. I also think that they do need those western third party titles, and should be doing as much as they can to secure the big guns. It may come to pass that I have nothing to worry about, but so far, with no mention of games like GTA or Tomb Raider for Wii U, and PS4/720 looking like beast machines next year, I am not particularly confident in what the next generation of Nintendo holds for those core western cine-games.
Nintendo climbed mountains this generation only to slip and fall as they danced around shouting about how awesome they were.
Apophis2036
Banned
I was thinking in line with their 'ports with extras', maybe 'MGS HD Complete' with MGS: Twin Snakes given the HD treatment and thrown in, 'Wii U: the only console to play the original Trilogy in HD !'
.I was thinking in line with their 'ports with extras', maybe 'MGS HD Complete' with MGS: Twin Snakes given the HD treatment and thrown in, 'Wii U: the only console to play the original Trilogy in HD !'
That'd be incredible actually. I doubt it'd happen though since SK would probably have to be involved somehow.
I don't want to piss on anyones parade but i would control the hype train for this event, esp after what happened at E3.
They have made it quite clear already that they will only be discussing and showing launch / launch window software in the run up to launch.
Does anyone really think they are going to show a new Zelda, Mario EAD, Metroid, Smash Bros or Retros game at a Nintendo Direct ?, i certainly don't, those games will be used as equalizers against PS4 and 720 at E3 2013.
I don't even think we would see Starfox, F Zero or Mario Kart revealed at a Nintendo Direct either to be honest.
I think the next one will focus more on the Wii U's OS, Online and maybe even a launch date and price if we are very lucky.
Go into it expecting just to see more of what we saw at E3 and if we get anything more or *shock horror* a big exclusive game announcement then we will be over the moon
Will be interesting to see if there is any performance improvements from E3 aswell, esp on first party games as Wii U should be able to run Pikmin, Nintendo Land, NSMB U, Project P-100, Lego City at 1080p / 60 fps.
Since the next Nintendo Direct or conference (it was announced ton the last shareholder meeting recently) will be about when Wii U will be released and how much will it cost and games in 2013. I can see Mario EAD, and Mario Kart. Of course, I could see a simple trailer or tech demo about all these games. Back on E3 2006, they show Super Mario Galaxy and it was released the next year. Same thing happened with Mario Kart Wii at E3 2007, it released in 2008.
*throws up*
lol
http://www.vandal.net/reportaje/las-novedades-de-pro-evolution-soccer-2013/2
PES will come to Wii U. Eventually.
Apophis2036
Banned
Apophis2036
Banned
From what Reggie said at E3 about the launch window being up to 4 months and lets say the console launches in November, the '2013 software' could very well be two of Pikmin 3, Project P-100, Dragon Quest X and Lego City.
No Pikmin 3 until 2013 would kill it for me, it's the only reason im still considering buying one at launch tbh.
I don't see how Nintendo slipped and fall while dancing since the WiiU is not even out yet. The 3DS was Nintendo's fault, but that was because they didn't have the game to justify the price point.
As for games the WiiU needs, it just needs good games, regardless if they are hardcore or casual. I don't think Nintendo should focus on the game of the generation since things do change. Look at GTA4. Microsoft money hatted to get the best version of the game and it didn't work out. Metal Gear Solid 4 despite being a PS3 exclusive only set the charts on fire for one months before disappearing. Even with Call of Duty it still did not completely translate to big sells to the 360 or PS3. To be frank, in the US there are few games that translate to actual system sells. As for the PS4/720, the 360/PS3 were monsters to the weaker Wii, but we know how that ended. The 360/PS3 are catching up now, but that is after the consoles war was over and Microsoft and Sony lost a ton of money that they are just now recovering. The Vita is a beast to the 3DS and need I go there. Power means nothing if the people you are selling it to can't afford it or don't really want it to begin with.
In my opinion, Nintendo's single-minded chase for the casual is what saved the industry because without Nintendo most developers would not have given a damn for those casuals. In fact, the industry as a whole still look down on these casual gamers with disdained and refuse to make games for them, which is why the industry went down. Look at the latest NPD and you will see that the only games really coming out are 'hardcore'. Why do you think Just Dance is still in the top ten? Right now, it is the only series being made at the moment that caters to the casual base. Nintendo do need to find a better balance, but Nintendo was right to focus on a market that has been treated like trash by everyone else.
lostinblue
Banned
I'm pretty sure they could just give out the source code to some other studio; MGS ports weren't done by Konami after all.
SK could be entitled to some fee's as the original co-developer, at most.
shinra-bansho
Member
I highly doubt anyone on Neogaf would be satisfied with a catalog of good games, if those games were all party, dance/music, minigame and sports titles. But I may be wrong.
What GTAIV did was cement the idea in people's minds that the XBOX 360 would receive third-party games. It was a major coup for Peter Moore. Same thing goes for FFXIII. It wasn't a system seller for the 360 per se, but it further consolidated the idea that the 360 is the home of multiplatform. I would wager not a single person here doubts that the XBOX 720 will receive pretty much every multiplatform game.
And CoD sells 360s, I don't know how or why anyone would dispute this.
The industry is currently chasing the "casual" dollar on mobile platforms and Facebook.
I sure dont understand why people want the wiiu to be a ps470. We have 2 consoles that already fill that need and we dont need the wiiu to do the same. Wiiu just needs to do it own thing.
If you guys care so much about ps470 games just buy one of those systems. Its really that simple, instead of trying to make the wiiu something its not.
Its like if wiiu cant run ps470 games it going to be a failure, hello look at the wii. Unless Nintendo stop making game it will be fine.
If you guys care so much about ps470 games just buy one of those systems. Its really that simple, instead of trying to make the wiiu something its not.
Its like if wiiu cant run ps470 games it going to be a failure, hello look at the wii. Unless Nintendo stop making game it will be fine.
Time to ask something I've been meaning to ask. I've just been trying to figure out how to word it so that it is as cold and academic as possible.
Situation:
There are three console makers.
One of the three is popular with third parties but could very well be financially non-viable by the end of the decade.
Another one is popular with third parties and very financially healthy.
Still, another is not very popular with third parties but quite financially solid.
Questions:
would it make a bit of sense for third-parties (and gaming media, now that I think about it) to maybe, possibly, perhaps be a bit more open to warming-up relations with that unpopular console maker, just so that the wealthy-and-currently-popular-with-third-parties one isn't the only long-term platform option?
Imagine that the financially shaky console maker does indeed bow-out. Do third parties just stick to their one current favorite, continuing to eschew the other console maker, putting most of their investment into that one popular platform? Do gaming media outlets make that one platform (and PC gaming) the central focus of their coverage?
Maybe I'm overthinking the whole thing..
Situation:
There are three console makers.
One of the three is popular with third parties but could very well be financially non-viable by the end of the decade.
Another one is popular with third parties and very financially healthy.
Still, another is not very popular with third parties but quite financially solid.
Questions:
would it make a bit of sense for third-parties (and gaming media, now that I think about it) to maybe, possibly, perhaps be a bit more open to warming-up relations with that unpopular console maker, just so that the wealthy-and-currently-popular-with-third-parties one isn't the only long-term platform option?
Imagine that the financially shaky console maker does indeed bow-out. Do third parties just stick to their one current favorite, continuing to eschew the other console maker, putting most of their investment into that one popular platform? Do gaming media outlets make that one platform (and PC gaming) the central focus of their coverage?
Maybe I'm overthinking the whole thing..
I'm happy with Nintendo being Nintendo. The sooner folks make peace with this (and the power issue that EatChildren alluded to earlier), the better they will find gaming peace.
Agree 100%.
JordanN
Banned
Same reason why people want the PS4 to be the PS470 and not anything else. I want to have the best graphics/experience/whatever.
And the console wouldn't be anymore same than the N64 was to PS1. Having a touch screen controller and Nintendo games already makes it a different console from the rest.
lostinblue
Banned
I think you're placing a brain where there isn't one, game developers behave like a group of fish schooling around they swim to the same location everyone is swimming not thinking much about it because they can't really think outside the box; meaning they won't do something like that as a combined effort it's a all for none and none for all kind of movement, without a brain.
This industry is chaotic, because everyone is so passionate and "right" about everything, even if they aren't. A lot of them crashed and burned this gen due to that, did anything change? No, because we're trying to be like Hollywood, no one wants to backtrack to lower budget/simpler games or think it out before they go for the AAA investment as their core business. It's a one track mind going up, that might as well crash us in due time. (hopefully not)
This industry likes to behave like Icarus, Hollywood being the sun; not realizing the potentialities of the medium are so much better than any movie out there already. It's a shame.
bgassassin
Member
Ports man. Why buy two $300+ consoles when you can own one that could play the same games? As long as Wii U can receive down ports and devs/pubs bother to do so, there will be a lot of happy gamers.
Here comes a new factor!
That was the best I could do in a short time. >_>
What if the financially healthy company totally sucks in one market, is third in another market, and most of it's non-gaming plans only seem to be targeting the market they are doing the best in?
I was specifically including the fall of their share price from high heaven to the bowels of satan himself.
I don't just want Wii U to have good casual games. I really, really, don't.
As I said, I think Nintendo did wonders for the industry, just not me as an owner of their console. I have no problem jumping around like a fool trying to dance, but I also would like to play, on my Nintendo console, Tomb Raider.
The reason I want Wii U to be PS4720 from a third party perspective (I don't care toooo much that it's not as powerful), is that I just do not want to purchase more than one console next generation. I'd rather spend the money on games, or better yet taking my kids somewhere.
Well said. 360 has this amazing mindshare amongst gamers and developers to some degree as the home of core, mature, death, blood, adult, whatver you want to call it, games. MS have also added casual later in the cycle and it's done well for them too.
They will only do it if they think they can make more than it costs to port. That would come down to both install base, and the type of consumer that it's perceived own Wii U's. At the moment, Nintendo are doing very little to show it's changed from Wii. Let's hope it changes.
Fair enough, I'm just not happy with it. And especially not happy with Nintendo saying one thing and doing the other. That's the thing that pisses me off the most. Either put up or shut up and I can buy a different console instead.
Personally I will own more than one system anyway so it makes little difference to me, however I think its somewhat bad for the market when there is one console not receiving ports. That locks out a lot of people from buying games that can only afford a WiiU, or w.e other reasons someone might only buy a WiiU. There's nothing wrong with wanting some level of parity so the system runs into less software droughts. A lot of people would rather own just a WiiU and settle for downports, rather than having to maintain two or more different systems, and maybe even a gaming PC on top of that. Hell, even owning a WiiU and PS4 I might buy some multiplats for the former if they are using the extra screen in an interesting way. Madden is a no brainer in that regard honestly, if they use the screen how I think they should.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
One very good reason that that 3rd console maker should be supported:
The Publishers shouldn't put all their eggs in what may soon be one basket,.
Yeah like I said before, I just want the Wii U to have the third party support the PS4/720 will get, I don't care if the Wii U version doesn't look as good in lighting or the texture is not as nice, I want the games.
Precisely. I just hope Nintendo have done enough in the hardware, and in third party relations to bring that to fruition.
That is clearly not going to happen in the West. Best to just accept that fact and hope for Japanese support and the really mainstream Western stuff like CoD, Madden, etc.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I'm surprised more people aren't talking about how Nintendo Land could be that second strike of lightning, that it could be Wii Sports all over again. I really hope they make it a pack in, and get it in a lot of kiosks.
JordanN
Banned
Eh, any particular reason? There's already western developers supporting it now and even past Nintendo consoles got the odd western game (ex:starcraft 64).
As long as Wii U caters to their needs, there should be no reason why they would pass up on it.
Think its best to worry about ps360 ports before we jump ahead to ps480.
The problem it has though is that it's a game-game which is harder for non-gamers to get into than sports. The Wii was brilliant; just swing your arm to bowl or hit a tennis ball. Anyone can relate to that.
NintendoLand is going to require people to make that "step up" to a game and I'm not sure non-gamers are that comfortable with that. However, those who were non-gamers at the beginning of this generation may very well be versed enough to tackle games.
It's going to require some really slick marketting that's for sure.
This would be almost my worst possible outcome of next generation.
Hopefully.
Nobody knows that yet, we just have to wait and see if Nintendo pulls the right moves.
I mean look at the PS3 in it's first few years, it didn't get a lot of games the Xbox 360 and PC where getting and if it did get some of the multiplats it would usually get released a year later for the PS3, and Sony turned that around, Microsoft had as much third party support as Nintendo last gen with the Xbox, and Microsoft pushed and got amazing third party support with the 360, Nintendo can do it too.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I really don't think it will. I've played a couple of the games from it, and there are some of that really simple just swipe your finger, or just do this simple action type stuff. The key thing though is it is INSANELY fun with a group of people. That's part of what made Wii Sports such a hit. You got every one involved. I'm telling you Nintendo Land has that in spades. Plus it uses a ton of motion control stuff. The Zelda game in it, you have 2 people using the Wiimotes like swords, and one person using the Wii-U Pad as a bow and arrow simply by looking at the screen and turning around. There's nothing "game-game" about that. It takes all of 5 seconds to understand what you're doing.
I'm telling you Nintendo Land is Wii Sports to the next level. If Nintendo gets people to play the game, specially in multiplayer groups, its a hit. It uses so many of those motion control type things that made it easy for non-gamers to get into Wii-sports and incorporates it into deeper gameplay.
I was fully and totally meh to the game, and thought Nintendo were wasting their time with it during and after E3. Then I played a bunch of the games on it last weekend, completely changed my mind on it.
1-If you look at 2013 projects, almost none of them have been announced for Wii U.
2- Take Two's public comments basically said no to Rockstar on Wii U
3- EA is at best taking a wait and see attitude
4- ShockingAlberto, regular contributor to this thread and credible poster, has basically said 3rd party support for the PS4/720 projects is not looking very good.
Can all this change? Sure, anything is possible. And Ubisoft seems to be on board so that is good. But I think you would have to be an extreme optimist to think that Western 3rd parties are right not devoting many resources to Wii U.
I think people are really underestimating the Wii brand. I see the Wii U being the most sought after piece of consumer electronics this holiday season. It'll get sold out quickly and you'll have many people paying way too much for it online. I imagine it'll continue with strong sales after the holidays as well, stealing away sales from ps3 and 360.
lostinblue
Banned
That's true, but there's a problem to it; initial investment needed is a little bit too much; might turn the next GamecubeGBA link cable; initial investment to have a full room of players wrecked it.
I mean, 4 wiimotes? (I only have 3 and I've had a wii since launch) They ought to do a bigger push for online and let you host a online room (host=screen controller) or go play on someone's hosted room; random matching mode or something.
Well, Nintendo even confirmed that E3 was about launch games, the only reason we saw Aliens Colonial Marines because it got announced at E3 2011, also which Gearbox said Nintendo told them not to bring a demo to E3 because it's releasing in 2013, and we got that statement that Nintendo is going to announce 2013 games for Wii U at they're Fall Conference.
- Status