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[FyreWulff]

Not knowing about eShop numbers is unfortunate, but there's no way they would make up for such a huge shortfall.

I remember Mists of Panderia being labeled as a flop because of everyone going off NPD numbers, ignoring the fact that a significant number of people buy digital now. Of course, when the digital numbers came in, it was the success they made it out to be.

But still.. two months. People need to calm down.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The WiiU is the first console to launch with full retail games available for digital download. It's a bigger consideration for evaluating a launch than any console before.

Vita. The assumption of large numbers of digital sales making up for poor retail software showings was rightfully denigrated then for Vita, and now for Wii U.

 

[Anth0ny]

PS3
490k -> 244k

Wii
604k -> 436k

That's telling.

I predict sub 200k for Wii U, barring a huge announcement before the end of the month.

 

[10k]

Kinda surprising since you would think NSMB would be a guaranteed seller.

However, for the Wii, they had Zelda TP, which resonates far better with those who would be likely to buy a system at launch

Gamecube though.....I don't even remember what that had? I think Star Wars Rogue Squadron? Another core gamer's game.

GameCube had SSMB Melee and Pikmin two weeks after launch.

 

[Averon]

Wii U would be lucky to break 150,000 in January

 

[PapaEmeritus]

That's the problem what games. Nothing has come out since November

 

[Raven77]

Newsflash, you can't sell your NEW system with a bunch of PORTS...

Shocking...

I am truly saddened for Nintendo. I know that they are holding at LEAST 3 major aces up their sleeves (Full 3D Mario, Metroid, Zelda, F-Zero, Smash Bros. ETC), but you can't just release a system, announce hardly any games for beyond the first 3 months, and expect people to be buying up systems and software...


The Big N needs to make a major reality check.

 

[Pociask]

For all those saying b-b-b-b-ut digital sales, Sony and Nintendo could very easily trumpet great digital sales, if they wanted to. They wouldn't even have to announce individual titles! "In addition to the great sales reported by NPD, Nintendo/Sony is proud to announce that full retail titles sold x units/produced x revenue, and that smaller eShop titles also produced blah blah blah."

Look, we know that bad sales press is bad for Nintendo and Sony. We also know that THEY know this. We also know that they are the only ones who know digital sales numbers. So we can very strongly guess that the digital sales are nothing to move the needle enough to move either public or investor sentiment, i.e., are negligible.*

*This assumes the companies are rational actors.

 

[ASIS]

At least its is easy to understand why this thing isn't selling like it should.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Well, I certainly would have purchased a Wii U on launch if:

> A new Smash Bros. was released within six months of launch.

> (Let's pretend Skyward Sword was delayed until end of 2012) Skyward Sword was released simultaneously for Wii and Wii U (in HD, of course).

Release worthwhile games, people will buy them.

This. I'm not shocked because all launches suck IMO.

 

[ASIS]

This. I'm not shocked because all launches suck IMO.

If you are only talking about Nintendo then no, I'm sorry but Wii had a fantastic launch line up, GC had a good one as well.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I remember Mists of Panderia being labeled as a flop because of everyone going off NPD numbers, ignoring the fact that a significant number of people buy digital now. Of course, when the digital numbers came in, it was the success they made it out to be.

A significant number of PC gamers buy digital now. Is there any substantive evidence that console gamers are buying digitally in large numbers when a retail alternative is available?

 

[EDarkness]

For all those saying b-b-b-b-ut digital sales, Sony and Nintendo could very easily trumpet great digital sales, if they wanted to. They wouldn't even have to announce individual titles! "In addition to the great sales reported by NPD, Nintendo/Sony is proud to announce that full retail titles sold x units/produced x revenue, and that smaller eShop titles also produced blah blah blah."

Look, we know that bad sales press is bad for Nintendo and Sony. We also know that THEY know this. We also know that they are the only ones who know digital sales numbers. So we can very strongly guess that the digital sales are nothing to move the needle enough to move either public or investor sentiment, i.e., are negligible.*

*This assumes the companies are rational actors.

Has any company really come out and give digital sales numbers? Seems rare that we see digital sales numbers for just about any game on any digital service. With some exceptions like Minecraft.

 

[axisofweevils]

For all those saying b-b-b-b-ut digital sales, Sony and Nintendo could very easily trumpet great digital sales, if they wanted to. They wouldn't even have to announce individual titles! "In addition to the great sales reported by NPD, Nintendo/Sony is proud to announce that full retail titles sold x units/produced x revenue, and that smaller eShop titles also produced blah blah blah."

Look, we know that bad sales press is bad for Nintendo and Sony. We also know that THEY know this. We also know that they are the only ones who know digital sales numbers. So we can very strongly guess that the digital sales are nothing to move the needle enough to move either public or investor sentiment, i.e., are negligible.*

*This assumes the companies are rational actors.

I'm expecting Iwata to reveal at least some of the digital sales numbers at the Investor Briefing in two weeks' time.

 

[EDarkness]

A significant number of PC gamers buy digital now. Is there any substantive evidence that console gamers are buying digitally in large numbers when a retail alternative is available?

If I could get eShop points easily, I would buy digital more often. Judging by Miiverse comments a lot of people bought games on the eShop as well. It was especially telling for Batman. Once it was available on the eShop, Miiverse activity jumped up. People are asking for Black Ops 2 to be put on the eShop now as well.

 

[snowdog1971]

Lock if old

Wii U software sales are "struggling a bit" in the US, according to Cowen & Company analyst Doug Creutz.

Reacting to last night's release of NPD sales data for the US market in December, Cowen said in a research note: "Software sales for the Wii U remained well behind launch levels for the original Wii and GameCube in December.
"Totals for the November-December period were -43% lower than software sales for the Wii and -50% lower than those for the GameCube."

The relatively low Wii U software sales appear to have been masked somewhat by news of the revenue generated by the platform since launch.

North American Wii U unit sales during the console's first full month failed to match those set by the Wii in December 2006, though the new system has generated more revenue in the same time frame.

Taking Wii U's relatively low software sales into account, it appears that the system's higher launch price ($300 for Basic model/$350 for Premium, compared to Wii's $250) was the main reason the new console's launch revenue exceeding its predecessor.

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...ar-behind-launch-levels-for-gamecube-and-wii/

What's amusing is that analysts like this, and organisations such as NPD and Media Create, have even less of a clue about tie/attach rates than ever before...until Nintendo decide to announce digital sales. All they can give us are estimations, not even hard, fast and accurate sales at retail.

All you need to do is have a look at Miiverse to get some sort of clue about how popular a title is, but even then you've got people in those communities that haven't got the game and people that have got the game but haven't gone near Miiverse.

If the Wii U has sold around 80% of the Wii sales you're going to have a decent amount of software sales too, at retail and digital distribution.

 

[quest]

This. I'm not shocked because all launches suck IMO.

Must of been a gamer after 09/09/1999 then.

 

[Pociask]

I'm expecting Iwata to reveal at least some of the digital sales numbers at the Investor Briefing in two weeks' time.

I expect a limited data release, similar to the numbers they used to give (still give?) on Virtual Console title sales. I doubt we'll see anything like top ten Title A sold this many, top ten Title B sold this many, etc. etc.

 

[EDarkness]

Thinking back, I only purchased one game for the Cube when it was released (Rogue Squadron 2) and one game for the Wii (Red Steel). This is the most number of games I've ever purchased for a system at launch.

 

[Valnen]

I wouldn't call any of the Wii U games that are currently out "killer apps".

 

[TheNatural]

So is digital downloads the official defense force excuse now? LOL wow.

What does it take for people to believe that *gasp*, a console launch could possibly be a flop? It's not a stretch at all considering how weak everything was.

 

[BlackJace]

So is digital downloads the official defense force excuse now? LOL wow.

What does it take for people to believe that *gasp*, a console launch could possibly be a flop? It's not a stretch at all considering how weak everything was.

The only region it's arguably flopping in is EU.

 

[Striek]

The only region it's arguably flopping in is EU.

No its very arguable for NA.

 

[Valnen]

No its very arguable for NA.

Only if you want to argue that not selling as much as the Wii means it's a flop, which would be a very stupid argument.

 

[Slayven]

How about fixing the ads? I swear I have not seen anything since launch week.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

In Q1 there basically only Rayman Legends and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate. Wondeful 101 is clearly no longer making launch window and Pikmin 3 is Q2.

I think Nintendo should have thrown everything at Pikmin 3 to make launch.

i dont believe it would of made a difference... seriouly pikmin has never sold very well... not one of the better big N licences!

 

[BlackJace]

No its very arguable for NA.

Only if you want to argue that not selling as much as the Wii means it's a flop, which would be a very stupid argument.

Yeah, it sold under its predecessor by a bit, and sold more than its predecessor's competition. A flop, no.
Underwhelming? Yes, quite.

 

[Drago]

No its very arguable for NA.

Right now, I don't think it's that much of a flop. If the numbers for January are atrocious (which I expect) then I think we can start considering it a flop, and that the numbers in Nov/Dec were simply due to the launch/holiday rush.

 

[Valnen]

Yeah, it sold under its predecessor by a bit, and sold more than its predecessor's competition. A flop, no.
Underwhelming? Yes, quite.

Underwhelming? Nope, sounds like normal sales to me, unlike the Wii's freakishly abnormal sales.

 

[TheNatural]

Right now, I don't think it's that much of a flop. If the numbers for January are atrocious (which I expect) then I think we can start considering it a flop, and that the numbers in Nov/Dec were simply due to the launch/holiday rush.

You sell 1/3rd of your biggest competition and finish last among consoles on the market in your launch period, with no reasoning like being in a different price range or being supply constrained, then yes, it's a flop.

Why do January numbers need to be seen? Hell, why do February, March, April, etc, etc, etc ... need to be seen. The console did shit in a holiday launch period, with virtually nothing coming that will spur sales. Are people just going to buy it out of good will or what?

Not really sure what the basis is that it wasn't a flop, except comparing it to other consoles in the past that didn't sell because they were much more expensive than the Wii U's launch price with cheap competitors, and/or were supply constrained.

Horrible launch all around, that's just how it is.

 

[BlackJace]

You sell 1/3rd of your biggest competition and finish last among consoles on the market in your launch period, with no reasoning like being in a different price range or being supply constrained, then yes, it's a flop.

Why do January numbers need to be seen? Hell, why do February, March, April, etc, etc, etc ... need to be seen. The console did shit in a holiday launch period, with virtually nothing coming that will spur sales. Are people just going to buy it out of good will or what?

Not really sure what the basis is that it wasn't a flop, except comparing it to other consoles in the past that didn't sell because they were much more expensive than the Wii U's launch price with cheap competitors, and/or were supply constrained.

Horrible launch all around, that's just how it is.

You expected it to do Wii numbers? In 2012?

 

[Soul_Pie]

Damn the gamecube had a bloody good launch window in terms of software.

The console may have sold like crap, but it absolutely wipes the floor with the two consoles that followed it. Damn did it have a bit of power to it as well, I've been playing through F-zero GX recently and it still looks brilliant. Plus that controller is the most comfortable I've ever used. I'm probably venturing off topic I know but Gamecube was amazing.

But yeah, the WiiU, what a disappointment in terms of software, I have no difficulty believing software sales are low because there is nothing there that gets me remotely excited.

 

[Striek]

Only if you want to argue that not selling as much as the Wii means it's a flop, which would be a very stupid argument.

No, thats merely the only argument you can imagine. Which is stupid.

Instead I'd argue that the December figure was atrocious. I'd use facts like only twice in the last 13 years has any system thats not already at the end of its life sold less in ANY December. The X360 being sold out in 2005. And the Vita this year. Think about that.

Wii Us December figure was really, really low from a historical perspective and is a horrible sign for whats to come in the lull before bigger titles + a price drop.

However grouping the two months and ignoring the context by comparing it to one system that was sold out, another that was at least somewhat sold out and moreover itself labelled a failure.... *shrug* Using that metric the Wii U would be fine if it only did 35k in January.

 

[quest]

Only if you want to argue that not selling as much as the Wii means it's a flop, which would be a very stupid argument.

Selling a several 100k less than the gamecube in its first holiday is the troubling part since it had ample stock. That would make it easy to argue it is a flop so far. Also the december sales were very flat over november wth plenty of stock. So word of mouth is not there for the device which is not a good thing going into the dead months.

 

[TheNatural]

You expected it to do Wii numbers? In 2012?

You say that like there's no middle ground from getting your ass completely destroyed in sales and become a Wii like phenomenon. When 360 is selling 1.4 mil and Wii U is doing barely above 400,000 that's pathetic. It could have at least did PS3's modest 700,000 or so.

If 400,000 in December isn't a complete dogshit failure with what was on the market, how many are still on the shelves, and it's price range comparable to it's competitors - I don't know what is.

 

[Zombie James]

Didn't expect the Gamecube to sell more software...



What has the Vita to do with this?

I've noticed that each WiiU sales thread has "LOL but Vita is doing worse" posts.

Vita is the reason for the Wii U's struggles? I don't get it, either.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Guys calling it a flop in ANY region this soon is not right.

 

[TheNatural]

Guys calling it a flop in ANY region this soon is not right.

You're right, we should wait for all the Martin Luther King and Valentine's Day purchases come in, that's where the big sales windfall always come. Not November or December.

Plus with it's competitors having so many big games like Devil May Cry, Dead Space, Bioshock, Grand Theft Auto V, etc coming in the first half it causes too much confusion. More people will be flocking to the Wii U because of the simple 5 game lineup between now and June.

Way too soon to call it a flop.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Can't say this is undeserved.

From the whole arrogant ticking boxes attitude to the slow UI and way way way too high price to a Ubisoft game being your flagship title they really didn't put much effort into it.

They should have had at least Pikmin and a zelda game or even that 101 game or something ready then games sales might have been better.

Look at it as the user base slapping nintendo on the wrist, maybe they'll use those billions they have banked to do better next time instead of repeating such a cynical approach.
You can't do this much wrong and still get away with it.

 

[Satchel]

I wouldn't call any of the Wii U games that are currently out "killer apps".

ZombiU is legitimately fantastic.

It straddles the border of being a really great game, and being a system seller imo.

It doesn't QUITE get there though, mainly because the days of hardcore games pushing systems last happened it 2001.

 

[BlackJace]

You say that like there's no middle ground from getting your ass completely destroyed in sales and become a Wii like phenomenon. When 360 is selling 1.4 mil and Wii U is doing barely above 400,000 that's pathetic. It could have at least did PS3's modest 700,000 or so.

If 400,000 in December isn't a complete dogshit failure with what was on the market, how many are still on the shelves, and it's price range comparable to it's competitors - I don't know what is.

Oh come on. You're comparing a brand new console with a LAUNCH LINEUP to an 8 year old one with a seasoned library. The notion that you expected it to be near a million freaking units is absurd.

Also, observing that how many units are on shelves is a dumb way of measuring success. I can walk into any Apple store and buy an iDevice right now. Their shelves are stocked with them, are they having financial woes?

 

[Ollie Pooch]

It's obvious Nintendo will bring great stuff - they always do - just weird they had this huge head start and then didn't launch it with some monster AAA game. Maybe they thought NSMBU would pick up the slack.

 

[ASIS]

You're right, we should wait for all the Martin Luther King and Valentine's Day purchases come in, that's where the big sales windfall always come. Not November or December.

Plus with it's competitors having so many big games like Devil May Cry, Dead Space, Bioshock, Grand Theft Auto V, etc coming in the first half it causes too much confusion. More people will be flocking to the Wii U because of the simple 5 game lineup between now and June.

Way too soon to call it a flop.

This really reminds me of the DS days.

 

[B.O.O.M]

You're right, we should wait for all the Martin Luther King and Valentine's Day purchases come in, that's where the big sales windfall always come. Not November or December.

Plus with it's competitors having so many big games like Devil May Cry, Dead Space, Bioshock, Grand Theft Auto V, etc coming in the first half it causes too much confusion. More people will be flocking to the Wii U because of the simple 5 game lineup between now and June.

Way too soon to call it a flop.

Come on now you know exactly what I mean. Nintendo have shown they can turn a situation around before. The product has been in the market for just around 2 months now.

I don't know, maybe I view the word flop in a different way. There are plenty of things Nintendo can do to boost sales in the future. We also have no idea how well MSony will do with their next system launches....they can just as easily mess it up which will give the wiiu an advantage. Way too soon to call it either way

 

[quest]

Oh come on. You're comparing a brand new console with a LAUNCH LINEUP to an 8 year old one with a seasoned library. The notion that you expected it to be near a million freaking units is absurd.

Also, observing that how many units are on shelves is a dumb way of measuring success. I can walk into any Apple store and buy an iDevice right now. Their shelves are stocked with them, are they having financial woes?

Why the xbox and gamecube both did over a million launching against each other with the 900 pound gorrilla PS2 in its second holiday season. With the kind of stock nintendo had anything less than a million is a disapointment. The competition was a 7 year old sony console that was 50 dollars cheaper. And a MS console in its 8th december with models still over 200 dollars. It was hardly launching against anything like a PS2 in its second holiday season.

 

[Albino_Samurai]

Strangely enough, i have bought more games for the Wii U in it's launch period than i ever did for any console or pc.
And i basicly only bought the system for Nintendo's games and games that utilize the specific controls only achievable with the U Pad. (Like ZombiU)
Could have bought some of these titles for my other systems and probably cheaper, but i chose to go for the Wii U versions because of specific gameplay possibilities.
Got all systems and a powerfull pc so i'm not constricted in any way.
The only dissapointing things for me personaly are the fact that Pikmin 3 wasn't a launch title and the lack of Virtual Console and games in the eshop.
And the Wii-U / Wii interface.... I hoped i could start my Virtual Console games that i purchased for the Wii straight from the Wii U menu instead of having to opening up the Wii channel. (and be able to play them on the pad, duh)
I don't understand this logic.
Even if it's hardware or software related, the ineffeciency boggles my mind.....
And why not combine all 3 different shops (Wii, Wii U, 3DS) to one specific account and shop?
I realy dig the machine and the purchased software, but ;

Who in the hell thought Wii U was a good name marketing wise?
Who is in charge of product awareness and publicity?
Who is in charge of the technical department, responsible for hardware configuration?
Wich third party software/game developers did Nintendo aproach regarding hardware configuration and what have they done with their advice?

 

[TheNatural]

Oh come on. You're comparing a brand new console with a LAUNCH LINEUP to an 8 year old one with a seasoned library. The notion that you expected it to be near a million freaking units is absurd.

Also, observing that how many units are on shelves is a dumb way of measuring success. I can walk into any Apple store and buy an iDevice right now. Their shelves are stocked with them, are they having financial woes?

It's not measuring success, it's pointing out the reason for the sales being low isn't because of supply since people constantly say "WELL DERP DERP IT STILL WAS WITHIN THIS MUCH OF WII OR 360" when you couldn't fucking find one.

There's no excuse why Wii U got it's ass kicked so bad, it's just no one wanted it. You're right, it is absurd comparing Wii U's shit launch lineup with just even the holiday lineup of other consoles, but that's on Nintendo. They somehow managed the great combo of shit third party ports and nothing else, not even matching the power of 7 year old consoles with a new console, then not even showing a game that takes advantage of THAT power in it's launch lineup.

Spectacular failure on all fronts.

 

[Averon]

So is digital downloads the official defense force excuse now? LOL wow.

I certainly hope people aren't using digital sales to defend the Wii U's performance given that that excuse for the Vita was thoroughly laughed at all of last year.

 

[ASIS]

Why the xbox and gamecube both did over a million launching against each other with the 900 pound gorrilla PS2 in its second holiday season. With the kind of stock nintendo had anything less than a million is a disapointment. The competition was a 7 year old sony console that was 50 dollars cheaper. And a MS console in its 8th december with models still over 200 dollars. It was hardly launching against anything like a PS2 in its second holiday season.

How much stock did the Wii U have anyway?

 

[TheNatural]

Come on now you know exactly what I mean. Nintendo have shown they can turn a situation around before. The product has been in the market for just around 2 months now.

I don't know, maybe I view the word flop in a different way. There are plenty of things Nintendo can do to boost sales in the future. We also have no idea how well MSony will do with their next system launches....they can just as easily mess it up which will give the wiiu an advantage. Way too soon to call it either way

We're not talking about distant future though, we're talking about now and the forseeable future. From launch until, lets say likely September of this year, there's probably not going to be one single big hit game. Games we don't know about will be announced at E3 and likely come out September or October at the flat out earliest.

That's 12 months of nothingness and poor sales, barring an unexpected price drop. How is that not a flop for the first year? That doesn't mean the console will be horrible forever, like you said - maybe Sony and Microsoft try to do a $599 and Nintendo puts Wii U at $200 with a big Mario and Zelda holiday. Who knows. All we know at this point is in it's current situation and the announced lineup of games and the timeframe it's supposed to carry, it's a flop.