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Wii U Plan B- selling console at $199 w/o gamepad?

I really don't get people's aversion to the gamepad. I can comprehend that it might not be the hook that the Wii Remote was for the more mainstream audience, but it's a traditional controller by and large. Hooking a screen to it doesn't somehow remove the functionality outside of that.

This is actually the problem. It's not aversion, it's indifference. People look at it and see a traditional controller with a giant touch screen, like the ones they have been using on their phones and tablets for the last 5 years. It doesn't offer anything that captures people's attention the way the Wii-motes did.
 
I think the pad probably scares off many of the casuals/soccer moms/elderly compared to the Wiimote and a lot of others seem completely indifferent towards it ("I already own a tablet").

IMO the gamepad is the main reason Nintendo is in this mess.

That might make sense if it were simply a touchscreen, but it's not. The gamepad is pretty much a traditional controller with a screen in the center. So if anything it's more complex. It also requires the player to split their focus between two different screens (television and pad). The Wiimote was far simpler and required almost no explanation.

You get it.

Disregarding my own personal feelings on the pad, it's a classic "textbook" mistake in business terms.

Why?

Because it falls between two stools; it lacks the simplicity of the Wiimote or iOS / Android tablets or even the GCN controller with it's central "A" button and embraces the complexity of the PS2 dualshock that Nintendo resisted for years - but without the third party support and without the hardware parity that the Playstation and it's controller represents. This thing is going to fail hard.
 
God, no. The controller situation is already frustrating with three different ones you can get, with the wii pad remote at least one is bundled with every system so developers know they have to at least support that one.
 
This thing is going to fail hard.
I think this is going to happen, unfortunately. I just don't understand how Nintendo could risk so much on this gamepad. Especially with how much cost it has added to the system overall. That said, I can see why Nintendo felt that it needed to have a hook for the console. This just wasn't it and it's probably going to cost them dearly. Minus the gamepad though, the system just looks like a souped up 360, and we know how far that would have gotten them.
 
I think this is going to happen, unfortunately. I just don't understand how Nintendo could risk so much on this gamepad. Especially with how much cost it has added to the system overall. That said, I can see why Nintendo felt that it needed to have a hook for the console. This just wasn't it and it's probably going to cost them dearly. Minus the gamepad though, the system just looks like a souped up 360, and we know how far that would have gotten them.

But it's not the gamepad that is the problem.
 
The price is too high and the software isn't there yet. Exactly.

I think the Wii was an anomaly in more ways than one. It didn't suffer from low sales and low demand, even though it didn't get much of a true software pull until a year into its life. Wii Sports and Zelda carried it into Q3-Q4 2007, basically, with some other games strewn about.

The Wii U is suffering in the way that's nearly expected for new consoles, especially in the HD era. It has a few games worth owning but it's not there yet, and the Gamepad isn't as much of an easy sell as the Wiimote. I just think that the Wii U in general shows that, unless you have lightning in a bottle, you need a good year (or two) to really get going. This system needs time. It needs time to become profitable at a lower price, more consumer awareness, and it most especially needs a strong base of software before it can move beyond the mere sales of the early adopters.
 
Plan B is the abortion pill, isn't it?

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So Wii U basic doesn't come with any remotes or the sensor bar, right?


I thought there a memory card and this was the reason that for a long time patches and XBLA games had to be very small.

I guess games that wrote data to hard drive cache just didn't instead.

Which is kind of my point. Because there existed a 360 without a HDD (even though there was a memory card) it wasn't mandatory for games to be installed onto the HDD (to improve performance, loading times) so customers who bought the more expensive hardware couldn't fully take advantage of it. The PS3 didn't have that problem. Developers always try to go for the lowest common demoninator and as (not) seen with Wii motion plus, the best way for developers to support a feature is that every unit supports it. A Gaming pet which isn't included would kill the uniqueness of the WII U. How are developers suppossed to fully use the gamepads feature, if they have to keep in mind that not every customers owns one?
 
Which is kind of my point. Because there existed a 360 without a HDD (even though there was a memory card) it wasn't mandatory for games to be installed onto the HDD (to improve performance, loading times) so customers who bought the more expensive hardware couldn't fully take advantage of it. The PS3 didn't have that problem. Developers always try to go for the lowest common demoninator and as (not) seen with Wii motion plus, the best way for developers to support a feature is that every unit supports it. A Gaming pet which isn't included would kill the uniqueness of the WII U. How are developers suppossed to fully use the gamepads feature, if they have to keep in mind that not every customers owns one?

The weird thing is that Nintendoland requires the wiimote and motion+ for a number of its games despite it not being a packin with the system or game
 
I've never tried turning on the Wii U without the game pad but wouldn't they have to rework the OS? I know my menu is on the screen with the plaza on the TV. Same stuff with all the settings.

And personally? I would hate that idea. I want all games to take advantage of the game pad. That's what I love about the U. I love that little controller.
 
The weird thing is that Nintendoland requires the wiimote and motion+ for a number of its games despite it not being a packin with the system or game
It's a weird case. The SP games all require the Gamepad, the the multiplayer ones require the Wiimotes. That said, the multiplayer games are where the Gamepad serves the best as a system-selling feature. Dividing one player from the others is where a huge part of the potential comes from.

Nintendo Land still revolves around the Gamepad more than the Wiimotes, but in the end it requires both for full enjoyment. It's a case where the Wii U is seen as an upgrade over its predecessor rather than a completely new system. Like, a logical next step in the Wii line. Nintendo expected people to buy a Wii U having already owned a Wii and Wiimotes, and I can understand why they did this. Enough people owned a Wii and bought controllers so there was less of a reason to sell the Wii U with Wiimotes than there was to sell it with the new big draw of the console (the Gamepad).
 
What the Wii U needs is attractive software, that's it. If a console doesn't have enough good software then it can be $50 and people still won't be interested.

Nintendo needs to make sure that Pikmin 3, Wii Fit and Mario Kart are all of a very high quality and are released as soon as possible. Loads of consoles have recovered well from poor starts, the 3DS, the PS3, the DS, but you must start the software flow quickly. If they can get Mario Kart on the market before the MS/Sony consoles launch then the Wii U will be fine for the next year or two. After that it's up to Nintendo to prove that their recent expansions and software delays have led to a more consistent release schedule capable of sustaining a full console cycle. They cannot allow the sort of droughts the Wii suffered between 2008 and 2011, they know third parties aren't interested in the platform so their first party offerings need to be much better scheduled.
 
I agree with people who have said that the gamepad isn't as revolutionary as the Wii Remote.

While Nintendoland does a really good job to showcase the potential of tablet style controls, it's nothing that's especially unique as mobile/smartphone gaming has been doing similar things this whole time.

I think the WiiU is going to suffer in this particular regard until someone shows off some really cool core experiences that utilize the gamepad in a way that cannot be done with a tablet.

With that said, a price drop and some compelling software should help quite a bit, but the gamepad is kinda the core of this thing. They aren't going to abandon it unless they abandon the system.
 
The weird thing is that Nintendoland requires the wiimote and motion+ for a number of its games despite it not being a packin with the system or game

Nintendo sell rebranded Wii Motes, maybe they thought they could force customers who don't have one to buy wiimotes.
 
Killing the 'pad is like admitting defeat on the USP
(Unique Selling Point)
of the Wii U. Without the 'pad, they could have spent that extra $100 on getting the specs closer to the upcoming next-gen Xbox/PlayStation (i.e. PS4 generation). There's no backing down now, it would kill the Wii U. I think they stay the course for the next 4-5 years.
 
While Nintendoland does a really good job to showcase the potential of tablet style controls, it's nothing that's especially unique as mobile/smartphone gaming has been doing similar things this whole time.
The tablet-style controls are great; I love tapping the screen instead of always using buttons. However, the parts of Nintendo Land where the Gamepad shines are where it's used for asymmetrical gameplay, which I have NOT experienced before and I own an iPhone.

The Gamepad being like a tablet is not its greatest strength. The Gamepad used as an independent streaming device is its greatest strength, and the touch interface is just a natural bonus.
 
The tablet-style controls are great; I love tapping the screen instead of always using buttons. However, the parts of Nintendo Land where the Gamepad shines are where it's used for asymmetrical gameplay, which I have NOT experienced before and I own an iPhone.

The Gamepad being like a tablet is not its greatest strength. The Gamepad used as an independent streaming device is its greatest strength, and the touch interface is just a natural bonus.

That's a good point. Off-TV play was a huge deal when the gamepad was introduced. Even game "journalists" seemed to be pretty positive about it. I haven't seen the WiiU tv spots as I don't currently have TV, but did they make this a focal point of them?
 
The main "tool" of the WiiU is the gamepad. Without it you can't use the most particular function it was hyped for it...
fixed a lot :P
but this..
I mean, if you take away the pad... it's another nintendo console with less powerful horse-engine (like wii), with partial third party support (like wii) but without a frill for novelty (wiimote for wii, screenplay for wiiu) and there would not be a single point in buying it OVER a 720||ps4 solution, lest you're a mario hardcore fanatic...
 
That's a good point. Off-TV play was a huge deal when the gamepad was introduced. Even game "journalists" seemed to be pretty positive about it. I haven't seen the WiiU tv spots as I don't currently have TV, but did they make this a focal point of them?

Because it's not the focal point, and never will be. Just like they built their own games around the analog stick with N64, and around the waggle function with the Wii, Nintendo will build the next Mario and Zelda around 2 screen functionality. They cannot push off-screen play as the focal point.
 
What makes this more stupid is that the Gamepad isn't dead-weight, in fact it's an aspect of the console they absolutely nailed. It works fantastically and anyone with a Wii U will tell you it changes the way you interact with the console and on a fairly fundamental level. I think people really arguing against it are the ones who don't own the system and that highlights the more basic problem, explaining to people who don't have it why it is awesome, it's not something completely obvious.

Because it's not the focal point, and never will be. Just like they built their own games around the analog stick with N64, and around the waggle function with the Wii, Nintendo will build the next Mario and Zelda around 2 screen functionality. They cannot push off-screen play as the focal point.

Off-TV play is just a focal point as anything else. That's the way NSMBU uses it and that's a flagship game. Any use of the Gamepad is as legit as any other.
 
What makes this more stupid is that the Gamepad isn't dead-weight, in fact it's an aspect of the console they absolutely nailed. It works fantastically and anyone with a Wii U will tell you it changes the way you interact with the console and on a fairly fundamental level. I think people really arguing against it are the ones who don't own the system and that highlights the more basic problem, explaining to people who don't have it why it is awesome, it's not something completely obvious.



Off-TV play is just a focal point as anything else. That's the way NSMBU uses it and that's a flagship game. Any use of the Gamepad is as legit as any other.


It's not the focal point and Nintendo never intended it to be. It's a nice secondary feature, but so was turning your Wii Mote on it's side for NES style traditional gameplay. The entire point of the system, the thing that was supposed to "hook" people in was 2-screen gameplay and using the gamepad as a touch screen.
 
Why are people always thinking that the Gamepad is just some accessory that the Wii U can just be sold without? The Gamepad is as integral to the Wii U as the Wiimote was to the Wii.
 
What makes this more stupid is that the Gamepad isn't dead-weight, in fact it's an aspect of the console they absolutely nailed. It works fantastically and anyone with a Wii U will tell you it changes the way you interact with the console and on a fairly fundamental level. I think people really arguing against it are the ones who don't own the system and that highlights the more basic problem, explaining to people who don't have it why it is awesome, it's not something completely obvious.



Off-TV play is just a focal point as anything else. That's the way NSMBU uses it and that's a flagship game. Any use of the Gamepad is as legit as any other.

I agree completely. Most Wii U haters have low to zero experience with the console. I own a 360 as well as a Wii U and I have a hard time going back to using my 360 these days.
 
The gamepad is really great. Only someone that did not play with the Wii U more than 10 minute can come with such a crazy idea.

I don't get why people want that all consoles to be the same.
 
The Wii U was really poorly thought out.

Can I ask in what way? Nintendo wanted to push social aspects of gaming with the Miiverse. Miiverse allows people from different countries to communicate, the easiest way to circumvent the language barrier is with pictures. Drawing pictures is quite hard to do with a traditional controller.

The people that (generally, not necessarily you) think it's poorly thought out tend to think so because it's not a PS4 or X-box 720... but if they WANT a ps4 or x-box 720, they'd be much better served getting one of those instead of a nintendo system anyways...
 
How can you even recommend that? The Gamepad is the crux of Nintendoland.
Some of the logic (or lack thereof) in this thread is astounding. Like it or not, Nintendo Land is the Wii U's flagship title (like Wii Sports for the Wii) and it sells the Gamepad's features. Hell, it could be called "Gamepad: The Game." I don't want to come off as an ass but I feel like whoever recommends the Wii U minus the Gamepad hasn't really played or doesn't really understand Nintendo Land.
 
I don't see this happening.

I do, however, see them splitting the difference with a 16GB SKU with no pack-ins aside from maybe NintendoLand for $249.

I think the "multiple SKU" thing is a huge marketing failure. The vast majority of gamers these days are not hardcores like us -- they are parents purchasing for children, casual gamers looking for a way to get "cool."

The worst thing Sony could do with PlayStation 4, for example, is offer multiple SKUs. Give us one SKU for one price with one marketing angle.

Nintendo needs to streamline it. One SKU, all the best features, none of the BS.
 
Some of the logic (or lack thereof) in this thread is astounding. Like it or not, Nintendo Land is the Wii U's flagship title (like Wii Sports for the Wii) and it sells the Gamepad's features. Hell, it could be called "Gamepad: The Game." I don't want to come off as an ass but I feel like whoever recommends the Wii U minus the Gamepad hasn't really played or doesn't really understand Nintendo Land.

I don't think I appreciated this until I hooked up my Wii U and played Nintendo Land for the first time on Friday night with two others over beers. Not only does Nintendoland physically need the pad to play the game, the gamepad specifically drives the core gameplay experience, especially in a multiplayer session, to make the time spent fun. So it is crazy to suggest not having the pad.

But this says more about how badly Nintendo have got that message across. I watched both E3's, the Ninty Directs and I just never got over how fun this stuff is from them, they never really conveyed how good the experience is, and you can't exactly tell people that they are just going to have to go ahead and put down the cash so find out, they need to advertise better alongside the main thing: more games, and those games need to use the gamepad to drive the core gameplay experience, just like N-Land. Make it indespensable, get more must have games out, and make people feel like they NEED it.

Some of those games in N-Land though, man. Animal Crossing, Luigi and Mario Chase are all fantastic in multiplayer, and it is a fucking blast, whether I'm the one with the pad or not.
 
I definitely agree that Nintendo needs to do more than just say what the console is and what the games are like to play. They need to put the Gamepad into peoples' hands. I know there have already been Wii U events (Wii U Experience, for example) but Nintendo really has to do way more of them on a global scale. Some of the Wii's best marketing came from having giant events and letting people get their hands on the Wiimote. "Playing is believing" was the basic gist. A similar route isn't just recommended with the Wii U, it's NECESSARY. In my opinion, anyway.
 
I definitely agree that Nintendo needs to do more than just say what the console is and what the games are like to play. They need to put the Gamepad into peoples' hands. I know there have already been Wii U events but Nintendo really has to do way more of them on a global scale. Some of the Wii's best marketing came from having giant events and letting people get their hands on the Wiimote. "Playing is believing" was the basic gist. A similar route isn't just recommended with the Wii U, it's NECESSARY. In my opinion, anyway.

they at least need to put demos in the retail outlets. they made a big mistake by putting Rayman Legends in there, it should've been Nintendo Land from the start
 
I definitely agree that Nintendo needs to do more than just say what the console is and what the games are like to play. They need to put the Gamepad into peoples' hands. I know there have already been Wii U events but Nintendo really has to do way more of them on a global scale. Some of the Wii's best marketing came from having giant events and letting people get their hands on the Wiimote. "Playing is believing" was the basic gist. A similar route isn't just recommended with the Wii U, it's NECESSARY. In my opinion, anyway.

For sure, and even just making sure the core gameplay is absolutely in synch with the gamepad philosophy will sell it. Any time people read about that game, they will be reading about the gamepad, and understanding how it can be so fun.

For example: NSMBU. I lvoe this game, right. I love it, it's a great Mario, it's absolutely worth buying, and being able to play on the pad is so convenient. So I give them that. However, that's it for gamepad integration. The core gameplay, everything that's cool about it, could be done on a Wii, or a 360 or whatever. The game pad functionality is a cliffnote, no matter how good the game is. So people can read read read about NSMBU, but they're reading about Mario, gamepad is effectively irrelevant when you ask about new stuff: Baby Yoshis, Flying Squirrel suit etc. Stupidly enough, I'd have said the Rayman Demo is a fantastic example of a 2d platformer that makes the pad much more integral to the core fun, and it's going multiformat ha.

Now take Nintendoland. Now literally everything you talk about, you start describing the gameplay, you start talking about the pad. Anyone reading about it will start learning about the pad, imagining how it could be interesting, or how the experience is only possible there. Not only that, forget the original kneejerk everyone had about "why is there not two pads?". The core fun and possibilities is built around that private screen one player may have and what they see, versus what everyone is seeing on the tv. The game oozes gamepad. Games like this will sell the hardware in every gameplay trailer and preview jus by being. But for that, they need those games like 3d Mario, Pikmin, M-Kart etc. and they ALL need to make that pad core to the fun. Then they'll be getting somewhere.

EDIT: I'll also add that I think basic or not, N-Land should be in EVERY package, every Wii U kit should have that game. It should be synonymous with Wii U. PErhaps only deviate once Wii Fit U is out and do one or the other. That game had better use the pad effectively too.
 
they at least need to put demos in the retail outlets. they made a big mistake by putting Rayman Legends in there, it should've been Nintendo Land from the start

it still blows my mind that they haven't done this. Anytime I go out on a busy weekend to a Target or Best Buy, the Wii U stuff is empty while kids gather around the PS3 or 360.
 
Sell a system without a controller. Genius.

I think Sony should make a note of this before they end up with another five hundred and ninety nine disaster again.
 
Why are people always thinking that the Gamepad is just some accessory that the Wii U can just be sold without? The Gamepad is as integral to the Wii U as the Wiimote was to the Wii.

The best experiences I have had with a Wii where with a pro controller in hand. A Wii U with pro controller only will be perfect for me.
 
If you took the time to read the OP he didn't say that.
The first thing that happens when you bought up a Wii U is the set up and that requires the GamePad. Without it it would be like selling a system without any form of controller.

Also if something is not in the box it isn't going to be as supported.
 
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