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[StreetsAhead]

I'll be just fine if it was just the current Wii, but outputs at 1080p...or 720p at least.



Of course, third-party/developer support would be...non-existent. XD

Once you see the repeating texture in that picture, you can't unsee it.

 

[BowieZ]

Yes. Yes it would.

It would be directly competing with the 360, a system with a gigantic game library and similar graphics. That would be a terrible, terrible move. The system would be doomed to fail right from the start.

I'd say it's more so directly competing with the Wii and the iPad.

 

[AceBandage]

General izing?

 

[guek]

Well Arkham certainly isn't coming back, now...

Good job, guys!

The guy has made a habit of posting once or twice and then not returning for anywhere between a few hours and a few days. He was never going to actually partake in any real discussion to begin with.

 

[Fourth Storm]

So would an HD 4830 underclocked to say, 450 Mhz fit the bill as "decently featured" but "lacking raw muscle?" I'm with the posters here who acknowledge the role of perspective, to say nothing of Arkham's intelligence.

Now say, if that HD 4830 were to get a clock bump and 32 mb eDRAM, I think it starts looking acceptable and more in line with the realistic expectations of those who have followed these 2 threads (me).

Also, remember lherre said that his dev kits had over 1 GB of RAM. People have misread him on this, but he specifically said it is higher than 1 GB. More importantly, he stated that his was the higher amount of two experimental configurations. People assumed that this meant 768 and 1GB. If I am correct in reading lherre's post (I am slow to dig it up but I will), it cannot be that, making a 1 GB/1.5 GB "test run" IMO the likeliest option.

 

[LOCK]

Guys calm down we only have a few more days before some new rumor or info is released.

 

[fernoca]

Once you see the repeating texture in that picture, you can't unsee it.

Can't unsee it, but still looks darn nice.
At least it seems to be certain that first-party games will look quite nice on Wii U. I hope at least.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

It would be disastrous for the Wii U to be as power as the 360, and down right suicidal for it to be weaker than...

The same was probably said concerning the Wii back in 05 when I was arguing with people speculating nanotechnology "superboosting" the tiny Wii console. And how if the Wii was barely more powerful than the Xbox it would be a disaster...

From where Nintendo sat, it was anything but. I don't think it would be total suicide, obviously I'd rather the 5x spec, but even a console slightly lower clocked than a 360 could still do well in the market and library. What in the past 5 years has Nintendo done to insinuate they are interested in anything except meeting a low baseline for tech, meeting a low baseline for features/online and pumping out amazing games? I haven't seen anything to prove they are thinking differently, words from Iwata and co. are fine, but it's about the "do" not "say" that proves these things.

My hunch final HW is a very slight advantage over PS3/360, with less features, online dedi, and no dedi HDD/large storage, etc.

 

[Fourth Storm]

For cross reference. Emphasis is mine regarding the RAM.

I can't speak about all the questions/details here but devkits have double memory amount than future retail hardware (is "usual" with the devkits because they need extra memory for debug purposes), the thing with this is that like memory amount is in an open range now (not closed) they have the "better" choice right now (I mean in the range the higher amount in the devkits). For example, if Wii U memory range is 4-5 gb, the kits have 10 gb instead 8 gb. So as I said before that memory can't be less than 1 gb, the kits have at least 2 gb (is higher of course because this is the lower value of the range).

As far as I now, the amount of edram is specifically described in the video-graphics chapter not in the cpu one (there only speaks about L2 cache amounts for each core, is not the same for each one to be precise).

No specifics about any other types of memory (except for storage purposes).

But I have to check the latest info, not easy right now to get it ( ), so take this as guiidance values (some of them won't change as edram, L2 cache or very unlikely to change, but others can change like the system ram that has to be set).

 

[Instro]

You guys are being assholes.

It's fine if you don't believe him, but be polite about it.

Some of these posts are going way overboard.

 

[AceBandage]

The same was probably said concerning the Wii back in 05 when I was arguing with people speculating nanotechnology "superboosting" the tiny Wii console. And how if the Wii was barely more powerful than the Xbox it would be a disaster...

From where Nintendo sat, it was anything but. I don't think it would be total suicide, obviously I'd rather the 5x spec, but even a console slightly lower clocked than a 360 could still do well in the market and library. What in the past 5 years has Nintendo done to insinuate they are interested in anything except meeting a low baseline for tech, meeting a low baseline for features/online and pumping out amazing games? I haven't seen anything to prove they are thinking differently, words from Iwata and co. are fine, but it's about the "do" not "say" that proves these things.

My hunch final HW is a very slight advantage over PS3/360, with less features, online dedi, and no dedi HDD/large storage, etc.

The Wii U is not the Wii, though.
And even then, it would still be disastrous. Nintendo NEEDS a system that is easy for developers to work on and port games to.
This is not an option that can pass up this time.
The Wii has already shown us why.

 

[Fourth Storm]

So, Arkham City is a great game, but what about the poster Arkam? In all seriousness it's interesting he checks out but I still feel like there's a piece of the puzzle we're missing somewhere with the information.

I dunno why that cheesy opener gave me a welcome laugh while reading this thread, but thanks.

 

[bgassassin]

Damn, everyone is generalizing....

Yes. We must stop the madness.

General izing?
http://i.imgur.com/xxzjc.jpg

General Eisenhower

So would an HD 4830 underclocked to say, 450 Mhz fit the bill as "decently featured" but "lacking raw muscle?" I'm with the posters here who acknowledge the role of perspective, to say nothing of Arkham's intelligence.

Now say, if that HD 4830 were to get a clock bump and 32 mb eDRAM, I think it starts looking acceptable and more in line with the realistic expectations of those who have followed these 2 threads (me).

Also, remember lherre said that his dev kits had over 1 GB of RAM. People have misread him on this, but he specifically said it is higher than 1 GB. More importantly, he stated that his was the higher amount of two experimental configurations. People assumed that this meant 768 and 1GB. If I am correct in reading lherre's post (I am slow to dig it up but I will), it cannot be that, making a 1 GB/1.5 GB "test run" IMO the likeliest option.

If that is the clock speed it was underclocked to it would definitely put the dev kit about on par with the Digital Foundry assessment of the E3 demos.

And yeah based on what lherre was saying the kit has more than 1GB for debugging and he indicated that they were targeting the max which would mean the dev kit has 3GB.

 

[J-Rock]

I actually believe everything Alkham has said.

 

[AceBandage]

I actually believe everything Alkham has said.

Hehe.

 

[guek]

I actually believe everything Alkham has said.

Agahnim?

 

[StreetsAhead]

Can't unsee it, but still looks darn nice.
At least it seems to be certain that first-party games will look quite nice on Wii U. I hope at least.

Indeed it does. If that's what Tokyo EAD can do with over clocked 10-year old tech, imagine what they can do with tech that's many times more powerful than that. There could end up being 10-15X more RAM alone compared to the Wii.
My mind boggles.

 

[HylianTom]

You guys really need to CALM DOWN! You're tearing this family apart!

*sips tea, pinky out*

Spoiler

really not kidding about the tea. it is fantastic!

 

[Anth0ny]

There is a 0% chance it'll be weaker than 360.

Seriously, 0%. Stop getting trolled you guys.

 

[z0m3le]

Heh, there is just no way you could have a console the size of Wii U using even 3 year old tech, that is inferior to 360/ps3, remember the early dev kits were overheating, so unless Nintendo took all those PS3=foreman grill seriously, I think we are save.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

The Wii U is not the Wii, though.
And even then, it would still be disastrous. Nintendo NEEDS a system that is easy for developers to work on and port games to.
This is not an option that can pass up this time.
The Wii has already shown us why.

But I think that the thinking that went into the Wii is the same with Wii U to a large extent. They are still refusing the guarantee customers a general baseline they see on competitors HW (dedi HDD, huge online emphasis, a guarantee on the difference between power against comp), they want to be vague for the same reasons they were vague about Wii's outline. If we were to look at the official drivel of news about the upcoming Wii console and U, it would likely look the same. Both consoles were coming off struggling predecessors toward the end, bad third party support, etc. So I'm not sure Nintendo's thinking and more importantly actions is any different. But if so, please tell me.

On ports, I'm sure Nintendo wants them...imo they NEED them. The massive 3rd party IP's are too big a money pie to miss out on. But again, in "Nintendo world" they made 90% of their money off their own backs, not third parties so I'm hesitant to assume that just because Nintendo may want/need ports they would build a HW spec to satisfy them, instead of purely doing what's baseline fiscally appropriate and if third parties don't like it...that's just the way it goes...like it's always been. I hope they see clearer than that, but I wouldn't hold my breath is all I'm saying. After all, it's not like what Arkam said has no precedent within Iwata's Nintendo...

And another reason on ports is that it's obvious the next comp will be somewhat more powerful (probably a lot imo), in that scenario who really wants to buy ports on the Wii U? Who was rushing out to buy the MW Relex over the 360 ver? While not as drastic, and especially if MS and Sony see a lucrative window when the Wii U isn't much more powerful than 360/PS3...it might be a much smaller version of Wii-to360/PS3 ports, it could happen. And that's if third parties even support the Wii U in big #'s before and after the competition rolls out, which is a big if we've been pondering every single Nintendo cycle since N64.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Are we, seriously still going on about Arkam?

 

[Skiesofwonder]

These last few pages of this thread is the first time I could actually mistake GAF for Gamefaqs; and for more than one reason.

 

[J-Rock]

Are we, seriously still going on about Arkam?

You got a problem with what I talk about on GAF? Cum at me bro.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

You got a problem with what I talk about on GAF? Cum at me bro.

no.

 

[AceBandage]

But I think that the thinking that went into the Wii is the same with Wii U to a large extent. They are still refusing the guarantee customers a general baseline they see on competitors HW (dedi HDD, huge online emphasis, a guarantee on the difference between power against comp), they want to be vague for the same reasons they were vague about Wii's outline. If we were to look at the official drivel of news about the upcoming Wii console and U, it would likely look the same. Both consoles were coming off struggling predecessors toward the end, bad third party support, etc. So I'm not sure Nintendo's thinking and more importantly actions is any different. But if so, please tell me.

On ports, I'm sure Nintendo wants them...imo they NEED them. The massive 3rd party IP's are too big a money pie to miss out on. But again, in "Nintendo world" they made 90% of their money off their own backs, not third parties so I'm hesitant to assume that just because Nintendo may want/need ports they would build a HW spec to satisfy them, instead of purely doing what's baseline fiscally appropriate and if third parties don't like it...that's just the way it goes...like it's always been. I hope they see clearer than that, but I wouldn't hold my breath is all I'm saying. After all, it's not like what Arkam said has no precedent within Iwata's Nintendo...

And another reason on ports is that it's obvious the next comp will be somewhat more powerful (probably a lot imo), in that scenario who really wants to buy ports on the Wii U? Who was rushing out to buy the MW Relex over the 360 ver? While not as drastic, and especially if MS and Sony see a lucrative window when the Wii U isn't much more powerful than 360/PS3...it might be a much smaller version of Wii-to360/PS3 ports, it could happen. And that's if third parties even support the Wii U is big #'s before and after the competition rolls out, which is a big if we've been pondering every single Nintendo cycle since N64.

Nintendo has already put a pretty big focus on their online strategy for the Wii U.
Did you miss their investors meeting?
As for a dedicated HDD, that is fairly irrelevant.
The 360's best selling model didn't have one.
Plus the Wii U will support USB HDDs.

And Nintendo is taking action. They are securing games and even helping revive third party franchises.


Thinking that the Wii U is going to be handled like the Wii or the GC is pure craziness.
We've already seen actions to the contrary.

 

[fernoca]

no.

Why not?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'll ban bet a month (with absolutely no expectation of someone else taking a ban if I win) that the Wii U released at retail will be as powerful or more powerful than a 360.

 

[StreetsAhead]

You got a problem with what I talk about on GAF? Cum at me bro.

no.

Why not?

Take it to the Seaman thread, boys.

 

[bgassassin]

But I think that the thinking that went into the Wii is the same with Wii U to a large extent. They are still refusing the guarantee customers a general baseline they see on competitors HW (dedi HDD, huge online emphasis, a guarantee on the difference between power against comp), they want to be vague for the same reasons they were vague about Wii's outline. If we were to look at the official drivel of news about the upcoming Wii console and U, it would likely look the same. Both consoles were coming off struggling predecessors toward the end, bad third party support, etc. So I'm not sure Nintendo's thinking and more importantly actions is any different. But if so, please tell me.

On ports, I'm sure Nintendo wants them...imo they NEED them. The massive 3rd party IP's are too big a money pie to miss out on. But again, in "Nintendo world" they made 90% of their money off their own backs, not third parties so I'm hesitant to assume that just because Nintendo may want/need ports they would build a HW spec to satisfy them, instead of purely doing what's baseline fiscally appropriate and if third parties don't like it...that's just the way it goes...like it's always been. I hope they see clearer than that, but I wouldn't hold my breath is all I'm saying. After all, it's not like what Arkam said has no precedent within Iwata's Nintendo...

And another reason on ports is that it's obvious the next comp will be somewhat more powerful (probably a lot imo), in that scenario who really wants to buy ports on the Wii U? Who was rushing out to buy the MW Relex over the 360 ver? While not as drastic, and especially if MS and Sony see a lucrative window when the Wii U isn't much more powerful than 360/PS3...it might be a much smaller version of Wii-to360/PS3 ports, it could happen. And that's if third parties even support the Wii U in big #'s before and after the competition rolls out, which is a big if we've been pondering every single Nintendo cycle since N64.

I think the real issue would be that Nintendo themselves established the mental foundation that they want a certain group to buy the console and games. That essentially means that they can't say they want that group only to release a new console that barely does anything to separate themselves from consoles released in 05/06. So that's on Nintendo for doing that and setting up those expectations. They didn't make those claims with Wii (well Iwata did say we would say "wow" ) and in turn made it easier to accept with their direction with that console.

 

[AceBandage]

I'll ban bet a month (with absolutely no expectation of someone else taking a ban if I win) that the Wii U released at retail will be as powerful or more powerful than a 360.

Probably the safest bet you can ever make on this site.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Take it to the Seaman thread, boys.

golfclap.gif

 

[frostbyte]

And Nintendo is taking action. They are securing games and even helping revive third party franchises.

Sure, Nintendo's taking action but for Japanese developers only. I don't see them reviving or partnering into western franchises, which might appeal more globally than niche games like Seaman.

 

[AceBandage]

Sure, Nintendo's taking action but for Japanese developers only. I don't see them reviving or partnering into western franchises, which might appeal more globally than niche games like Seaman.

Well, we can't say that for sure.
We could very well see Nintendo revive an Eternal Darkness or a Time Splitters.

 

[Fourth Storm]

If that is the clock speed it was underclocked to it would definitely put the dev kit about on par with the Digital Foundry assessment of the E3 demos.

And yeah based on what lherre was saying the kit has more than 1GB for debugging and he indicated that they were targeting the max which would mean the dev kit has 3GB.

So as far as I can tell, up until earlier this year, there were two different dev kit configs, one of which had 1 GB of RAM the other 1.5 GB of RAM. Problem solved.

And the GPU does not go against an underclocked 4830 at all per say. It obviously had to be underclocked, because at 55 nm, it was too hot for say, a case size resembling the Wii U in form but somewhat bulkier?

In any case, the final dev kits were described as more powerful I believe. I can imagine the final custom silicon, if at 32nm, which seems absolutely necessary and unavoidable, being clocked a bit higher.

Do multipliers even matter anymore? I recall someone mentioning that they don't. Is it possible to avoid them via some customization to just run in a low downclocked mode set to match the Wii?

I've had enough of this shit. Let's try to figure it out.

 

[jay]

I'll ban bet a month (with absolutely no expectation of someone else taking a ban if I win) that the Wii U released at retail will be as powerful or more powerful than a 360.

Arkam wouldn't take this bet.

 

[Snakeyes]

Are we, seriously still going on about Arkam?

We're going HAM on him.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Nintendo has already put a pretty big focus on their online strategy for the Wii U.
Did you miss their investors meeting?
As for a dedicated HDD, that is fairly irrelevant.
The 360's best selling model didn't have one.
Plus the Wii U will support USB HDDs.

And Nintendo is taking action. They are securing games and even helping revive third party franchises.


Thinking that the Wii U is going to be handled like the Wii or the GC is pure craziness.
We've already seen actions to the contrary.

Fair enough, but I'm going to need to see some action to support what Nintendo says. But what actions have we seen to the contrary? I've seen a lot of promising speeches and talks, but no real tangible action and subsequent services to consumers. As many strides as have been made on the 3DS side, I can't help but still feel let down.

But yeah, they are offering USB HDD's but we both know that's hardly as appropriate as a device to install games to/patches/DLC/etc vs a SATA/SATA2/eSATA connection. The distinction is MS at least offers that as an option, Nintendo only offers the most shallow baseline.

Honestly though, I really do hope you're right about this. I'd hate for my pessimism to manifest it's way into another Nintendo console...

 

[EDarkness]

I'll ban bet a month (with absolutely no expectation of someone else taking a ban if I win) that the Wii U released at retail will be as powerful or more powerful than a 360.

Someone would have to be crazy to take that bet....

 

[Instro]

I'll ban bet a month (with absolutely no expectation of someone else taking a ban if I win) that the Wii U released at retail will be as powerful or more powerful than a 360.

If you were really confident you would bet a perm

 

[RedSwirl]

Just asking, but what was the x jump from last gen to current gen for each manufacturer? The Wii was supposedly 2-3x the Gamecube, and that wasn't an immediately noticeable leap.

 

[HylianTom]

Arkam wouldn't take this bet.

Is this the part where we start chanting at him to take the bet, much like children egging-on a schoolyard fight?

*sips tea*

 

[lordfroakie]

I'll ban bet a month (with absolutely no expectation of someone else taking a ban if I win) that the Wii U released at retail will be as powerful or more powerful than a 360.

I'm game

 

[AceBandage]

Fair enough, but I'm going to need to see some action to support what Nintendo says. But what actions have we seen to the contrary? I've seen a lot of promising speeches and talks, but no real tangible action and subsequent services to consumers. As many strides as have been made on the 3DS side, I can't help but still feel let down.

But yeah, they are offering USB HDD's but we both know that's hardly as appropriate as a device to install games to/patches/DLC/etc vs a SATA/SATA2/eSATA connection. The distinction is MS at least offers that as an option, Nintendo only offers the most shallow baseline.

Honestly though, I really do hope you're right about this. I'd hate for my pessimism to manifest it's way into another Nintendo console...

Well, this E3 will be very telling on how Nintendo is going to handle themselves.
But I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Iwata knows full well that they need swift action if they want to keep their console relevant.
They learned the hard way that they can't just coast.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

I'll ban bet a month (with absolutely no expectation of someone else taking a ban if I win) that the Wii U released at retail will be as powerful or more powerful than a 360.

I still have a ban bet going on, but I'm game for this too.

 

[frostbyte]

Well, we can't say that for sure.
We could very well see Nintendo revive an Eternal Darkness or a Time Splitters.

Eternal Darkness I could see but Time Splitters? Even so, Eternal Darkness never did huge numbers even back then when horror was all the rage. iirc, it did around 300k? If it was released now, I'd guess at least half of those numbers.

 

[lordfroakie]

I still have a ban bet going on, but I'm game for this too.

Would gaf even be around 20 years later?

 

[jay]

Is this the part where we start chanting at him to take the bet, much like children egging-on a schoolyard fight?

*sips tea*

No. I'm trying to distract him so he can focus on being distracted by the jar of honey I'm trying to give to EatChildren to distract him.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Eternal Darkness I could see but Time Splitters? Even so, Eternal Darkness never did huge numbers even back then when horror was all the rage. iirc, it did around 300k? If it was released now, I'd guess at least half of those numbers.

Expect less if its developed by Silicon Knights, UNLESS its a launch title.

Would gaf even be around 20 years later?

You never know (;

 

[AceBandage]

Eternal Darkness I could see but Time Splitters? Even so, Eternal Darkness never did huge numbers even back then when horror was all the rage. iirc, it did around 300k? If it was released now, I'd guess at least half of those numbers.

Completely depends on how it's made and marketed.
As for TS, I've long said that if Nintendo got that series for this system, it would go a long way for them.
But, we'll see.
I dunno if they'll revive many Western franchises, but they'll certainly try and secure them as much as possible.