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[AceBandage]

I really do wonder how this thing will be marketted.

We've seen the "casual" or should I say "non enthusiast" marketting in a form of the E3 teaser videos they showed with NSMBMii, Kid on couch, dad on TV, Wii Fit, Shuriken, Baseball catching game etc. But I really didn't see much in the way of super hyping enthusiast (Not just Nintendo fan) gaming fare.

We all pretty much agree it's not going to be a mind blowing graphical powerhouse that's leaps and bounds ahead of the competition so I find it hard to see how they can generate that Hollywood style hype that the other platform holders are good at doing (I'd love to see it marketted that way to be honest). And of course last gen the graphic/power leap was huge so it was easier to blow people away.

Err, really?
All the big third party games that were shown as well as Ghost Recon, Killer Freaks and a new Assassin's Creed?
As well as announcing Pikmin 3 and a new Smash Bros?

 

[watershed]

Pretty sure most people are already convinced they are leaps and bounds more powerful than the Wii U based on nothing more than Nintendo made their last console not as powerful.

It is like in politics where a portion of people will vote Republican or Democrat regardless of who the candidate is or their policy ideas and there are those Independents/people in the middle that can be swayed with facts or rhetoric. Some have their minds made up and there is nothing Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony can do about it and there are those that can be swayed. Nintendo got out of that race and went after people who had never cared to vote before and got them to the ballots and now a large chunk of old voters got upset about it.

I agree, its such a softball question I'd be amazed if Sony and Microsoft didn't hit it out of the park. The way Nintendo handled the wii u reveal, even if the wii u's second E3 is amazing I fully expect Sony and Microsoft's next consoles to generate more hype. It may not matter at the end of the day in terms of sales and success but it is odd to see Nintendo position themselves so poorly with "hardcore" gamers within the context of E3.

 

[[Nintex]]

This bit from the new Moore article was interesting regarding specs:

“From our perspective right now, specs are a big deal,” he said, adding that during his trip, he will looking to find out more about the gadget’s graphic and computer processing units, its price and when it might be shipped.

Specs didn't matter first but are important right now. My guess is that he has a rough idea of what the 720 will do and he went to see if Nintendo is competitive enough in that area. I think the systems will be pretty close in terms of power but Nintendo might be spending more on their controller/streaming tech while MS just puts in the best possible hardware and does the rest with new software and future expansions. The Courier team actually designing and developing the next Xbox is an interesting twist that could shake things up however and not in Nintendo's favor.

 

[BurntPork]

^ Agreed.



What does this mean exactly, in terms of performance?
How capable a chip is this?
All I know is that New Zealand, Tahiti, Lombok and Thames are AMD's new 28nm chip code names, but that's it...

Lucky for you, I was searching this up earlier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...g_units#Southern_Islands_.28HD_7xxx.29_series

... I don't think we'll see quite that much power though. It would be great, but I really doubt it. Honestly, that's what I would see happening with a Sony or MS console launching in 2012.

Off-topic, but is GAF super slow for anyone else?

 

[Shanadeus]

.

 

[AzaK]

Err, really?
All the big third party games that were shown as well as Ghost Recon, Killer Freaks and a new Assassin's Creed?
As well as announcing Pikmin 3 and a new Smash Bros?

Apologies, I had originally explained myself but trimmed down my post; obviously too much I was really trying to talk regarding the gamer that's not already a Nintendo fan who has probably decided to buy the system anyway.

Most core games shown were just standard HD games running on alpha hardware which didn't really look 6 years ahead of the P60 games. The GR trailer which showed some of the U pad stuff was nice though I'll admit and that sort of thing might work to get people interested.

I don't think Pikmin is a system selling hype mobile that can bring in that general enthusiast gamer. It's really a Nintendo fan thing, and the same goes with Smash Bros - which I have to say is a game I find absolutely terrible - I hate it. I do recognise Nintendo fans love it but as I said was actually trying to talk/think about the gamer who isn't already a convert.

Maybe I should have said "How do Nintendo get the DudeBro, Hollywood, Michael Bay explosions in your face, gamer"? Which, I think is most of the 360 crowd and a large portion of the PS3 crowd. Normally would have thought "Nintendo doesn't care about them" but they seem to be suggesting otherwise.

 

[Sneaky Gato]

It's been slow for the last day. More troubling is that my antivirus is saying that the site is attempting to redirect me somewhere else. The people over in the funny pics thread were also being hit by virus warnings but that was from forgifs.

 

[guek]

I find it hard to see how they can generate that Hollywood style hype that the other platform holders are good at doing (I'd love to see it marketted that way to be honest). And of course last gen the graphic/power leap was huge so it was easier to blow people away.

This is a pretty big misconception. The 360 and PS3 did well but the Wii did GREAT. MS and Sony have never been all that great at marketing despite the hundreds of millions of dollars they spend. Overall, I'd say those two are pretty mediocre at building up hype over hardware. Yes, the 360 is doing really well at the moment, but they struggled for years to keep up with the Wii. It has nothing to do with being branded the "hardcore gaming device" either. The Wii was never, ever known for that, and the 360 and xbox live have been the platform of choice for most gaming enthusiasts since day 1.

A big portion of the 360's current success can be attributed to Kinect. That really got the ball rolling for them in a big way. What nintendo needs to generate hype is a hit...and I mean a huge hit. Something that makes people say "wow, that's new." Graphical prowess, online abilities, these are all things that enthusiasts like all of us here really want, but it's not what sells systems to the masses. Nailing down a graphical beast that has superb networking capabilities at a reasonable price would probably ensure a success but it's not enough to become a runaway hit like the Wii, DS, PS2, etc.

Even if the Wii U was barely more powerful than the PS3, the market at large wouldn't care. Most people would probably think it's more than "good enough." What's going to convince them to pony up the cash is the chance for something they haven't seen before. I'd love to see Nintendo invest in some really high quality AR games, but that probably wont happen since I don't think the U-pad has a forward facing camera on the back. Regardless, I think we'll see some proof of concept game by nintendo next E3. Whether it'll set the world on fire though is definitely a huge unknown.

 

[AceBandage]

Apologies, I had originally explained myself but trimmed down my post; obviously too much I was really trying to talk regarding the gamer that's not already a Nintendo fan who has probably decided to buy the system anyway.

Most core games were just standard HD games running on alpha hardware which didn't really look 6 years ahead of the P60 games. The GR trailer which showed some of the U pad stuff was nice though I'll admit and that sort of thing might work to get people interested.

I don't think Pikmin isn't a system selling hype mobile to bring in that general enthusiast gamer. It's really a Nintendo/RTS fans thing, and the same goes with Smash Bros - which I have to say is a game I find absolutely terrible - I hate it. I do recognise Nintendo fans love it but as I said was actually trying to talk/think about the gamer who isn't already a convert.

Maybe I should have said "How do Nintendo get the DudeBro, Hollywood, Michael Bay explosions in your face, gamer"? Which, I think is most of the 360 crowd and a large portion of the PS3 crowd. Normally would have thought "Nintendo doesn't care about them" but they seem to be suggesting otherwise.

Well, we have no idea what Nintendo is planning as of yet.
They are obviously spending more money on getting third party games than generations past.
I don't think the graphical gap will be large enough to make the "dudebros" turn one way or the other.
It'll be the games that decide it, as always. And what Nintendo has up its sleeve is a big mystery to everyone.
They obviously have something, though. And after what we've seen with the 3DS's relaunching, it'll probably be bigger than most are expecting.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

I agree, its such a softball question I'd be amazed if Sony and Microsoft didn't hit it out of the park. The way Nintendo handled the wii u reveal, even if the wii u's second E3 is amazing I fully expect Sony and Microsoft's next consoles to generate more hype. It may not matter at the end of the day in terms of sales and success but it is odd to see Nintendo position themselves so poorly with "hardcore" gamers within the context of E3.

I don't think it even has anything to do with the Wii U reveal or what they bring next year, the people who go to and pay attention to E3 are already hyped for systems they know NOTHING about. Anything short of a Nintendo-Apple partnership was going to be met with large amounts of skepticism or slightly better than indifference because so much of the gaming media has turned their attention elsewhere. The Wii U reveal could have had large amounts of fireworks, with hundred dollar bills raining from the sky, and the new controller could have been a pair of women's breasts and there would still be a large constituency of the gaming media who would have said 'Yeah boobs are nice but they will probably be bigger on the NextBox.'

 

[chris3116]

I've stated that power is my main concern. They have to lose money on the hardware in the beginning if they're hoping to deliver on their "system for everyone" promises.

With a new possible worldwide recession, losing money is the worst idea right now. That's why Microsoft and Sony won't go crazy in terms of power in hardware. Sony didn't recover yet from the 2009 recession. For the PS4 and the next Xbox, I can see current gen consoles on steroids of those consoles.

 

[JJConrad]

I with you. I don't understand why some are so stuck on the belief that what we saw a few months ago will stay the same by the time it launches.

Based on the leaked specs of the 7000 series and the possibility of a 28nm GPU, I'm going to make a bold prediction.

The design and performance of the final GPU for Wii U will fall between the Lombok XL and Thames Pro.

If everything we've heard is true, then that's not a very outrageous prediction. In fact, if the 28nm rumors are accurate (It's the one I doubt the most) then this is probably the most reasonable prediction I've seen.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Anyone who is expecting a massive jump in graphical power again is absolutely insane. (from the NextBox and PS4).

 

[watershed]

Well, just by being a year later to the game they probably will have more powerful machines, but like with the 360/PS3 that one year might not actually matter.

I have a feeling that the next Microsoft console will be a pretty sleek and compact machine that will trade in some graphical capabilities for a smaller form factor and less failing hardware.
No idea what Sony will do though, they might want to go with a power beast.

This discussion never goes anywhere but it will be interesting to see what Sony and Microsoft come out with next. If Nintendo goes with contemporary tech they will at least be in the same ball park as the nextbox and PS4 graphics wise if not feature set wise like online and multimedia stuff. Then there's the fact that both Sony and Microsoft have bled money this gen which you'd think would impact their decision making about the hardware in their next consoles and their pricing. Then you have the whole diminishing returns factor. All of this suggests that all 3 next gen consoles will not only be in the same ball park but pretty much identical outside of theoretical performance (like how the ps3 is theoretically more powerful than the 360 but few games bear it out).

Yet, with the wii and now the 3ds compared to the vita it seems like both in terms of graphics and features (especially features) the wii u will still lag behind the competition.

 

[guek]

Well, we have no idea what Nintendo is planning as of yet.
They are obviously spending more money on getting third party games than generations past.
I don't think the graphical gap will be large enough to make the "dudebros" turn one way or the other.
It'll be the games that decide it, as always. And what Nintendo has up its sleeve is a big mystery to everyone.
They obviously have something, though. And after what we've seen with the 3DS's relaunching, it'll probably be bigger than most are expecting.

Man, I really hope they make it rain and secure some of those big 3rd party games. If DQX turns out to be a good game, it'll already give nintendo a huge boost in Japan. A console MH game exclusive to Wii U would also be huge in that territory.

I have a feeling we'll see some pretty moderate announcements. We'll probably get some sort of exclusive from SE (likely a crummy FF:CC game that doesn't hold a candle to the original), maybe No More Heroes 3, and Red Steel 3. NMH and RS are two franchises I think would have benefited greatly had the wii been an HD console. I'm excited to see what those two series might become with the added monumental leap in power over the Wii.

 

[guek]

If everything we've heard is true, then that's not a very outrageous prediction. In fact, if the 28nm rumors are accurate (It's the one I doubt the most) then this is probably the most reasonable prediction I've seen.

how does this not fly in the face of all the rv770 rumors though?

 

[AceBandage]

how does this not fly in the face of all the rv770 rumors though?

Different stages of dev kits.

 

[BurntPork]

Anyone who is expecting a massive jump in graphical power again is absolutely insane. (from the NextBox and PS4).

That was said last-gen. It's definitely not insane at all.

 

[guek]

Different stages of dev kits.

I dunno, considering the power draw of those cards and the amount of ram they're packing, it just seems unlikely.

I'm not an expert though so I could definitely be wrong.

 

[AzaK]

This is a pretty big misconception. The 360 and PS3 did well but the Wii did GREAT. MS and Sony have never been all that great at marketing despite the hundreds of millions of dollars they spend. Overall, I'd say those two are pretty mediocre at building up hype over hardware. Yes, the 360 is doing really well at the moment, but they struggled for years to keep up with the Wii. It has nothing to do with being branded the "hardcore gaming device" either. The Wii was never, ever known for that, and the 360 and xbox live have been the platform of choice for most gaming enthusiasts since day 1.

A big portion of the 360's current success can be attributed to Kinect. That really got the ball rolling for them in a big way. What nintendo needs to generate hype is a hit...and I mean a huge hit. Something that makes people say "wow, that's new." Graphical prowess, online abilities, these are all things that enthusiasts like all of us here really want, but it's not what sells systems to the masses. Nailing down a graphical beast that has superb networking capabilities at a reasonable price would probably ensure a success but it's not enough to become a runaway hit like the Wii, DS, PS2, etc.

Even if the Wii U was barely more powerful than the PS3, the market at large wouldn't care. Most people would probably think it's more than "good enough." What's going to convince them to pony up the cash is the chance for something they haven't seen before. I'd love to see Nintendo invest in some really high quality AR games, but that probably wont happen since I don't think the U-pad has a forward facing camera on the back. Regardless, I think we'll see some proof of concept game by nintendo next E3. Whether it'll set the world on fire though is definitely a huge unknown.

You're right, and I guess in a way I concede the argument. My meanderings weren't really about the company's success and dominance which will require them finding a way to market to the masses. I was starting with a personal feeling and what I want and what I think a lot of those "excitement-based" enthusiast gamers may want. That excitement for a new device that has some amazing features that make our eyes and brains explode when we see some trailer, or unveiling of a feature.

The Wii U announcement was such a downer, and I'm hanging out so much for something great from Nintendo after I found the Wii hugely disappointing that I'm probably projecting that desire into my argument. I'm just ready for something new, and something explosive.

 

[CubeHands]

The specs of this thing. It doesn't matter. When you see Zelda/Mario/Etc in 1080p you/me (Gamers) will shit a brick and buy it. Regardless of art style, the Zelda tech demo and the Garden demo sold it technically, so it then it really comes down to content for the Gamers.

Nintendo's core franchises are mostly/always superbly done and therefore its a lock-in for the hardcore.

As far as the masses are concerned, it should/will be affordable (hence, power alone is not its only consideration) and it has a utility/novelty to be used as a USP (The tablet) by designers and ad-men.

This covers both angles and of course the latecomers to next gen will be more powerful, but they don't have Nintendo games so the hardcore are going multi-platform (as always) and the casuals can either buy the cheapest of the 3 or the one that has lots of people on the tv-ads looking like a happy smiley family.

 

[BurntPork]

The specs of this thing. It doesn't matter. When you see Zelda/Mario/Etc in 1080p you/me (Gamers) will shit a brick and buy it. Regardless of art style, the Zelda tech demo and the Garden demo sold it technically, so it then it really comes down to content for the Gamers.

Nintendo's core franchises are mostly/always superbly done and therefore its a lock-in for the hardcore.

As far as the masses are concerned, it should/will be affordable (hence, power alone is not its only consideration) and it has a utility/novelty to be used as a USP (The tablet) by designers and ad-men.

This covers both angles and of course the latecomers to next gen will be more powerful, but they don't have Nintendo games so the hardcore are going multi-platform (as always) and the casuals can either buy the cheapest of the 3 or the one that has lots of people on the tv-ads looking like a happy smiley family.

As we've seen with the GameCube and the 3DS, Nintendo can't depend solely on their fans or casuals. Nintendo's dedicated fanbase is too small, and causuals are too fickle. They need to be competitive and get a slice of the multiplat pie this time. If they don't, they won't get anywhere.

 

[CubeHands]

All depends on your perspective BurntPork.

3DS has no competition yet and regardless the race is a long one for handhelds, when all of Nintendo's guns have fired on the 3DS and its still a fail. you may have a point, but we just don't know yet.

In terms of competitive (and I assume you are talking about specs), the fact that they are first out of the gate means they are not going to compete on a specs basis does it?

Look who they are up against. Sony and Microsoft aggressively go after the specs crown with Microsoft finding a good balancing act of specs/API and Sony going all out on specs to be let down (or their devs let down) by a shit API.

Please don't use the "nothing has been announced regarding the next sony/ms hardware" line, it's just common sense. My opinion as well, but still common sense.

 

[bgassassin]

So between 40 and 50 GameCubes?

Probably 100-150 (looking at GFLOPs only and guessing that amount for the CPU).

But I'm also basing that on the GPU using VLIW4. I personally would not be shocked if it uses GCN.

What does this mean exactly, in terms of performance?
How capable a chip is this?
All I know is that New Zealand, Tahiti, Lombok and Thames are AMD's new 28nm chip code names, but that's it...

Simply put either people will be very happy with Wii U or mad that Wii U is more capable than what they expected (especially compared to the other two consoles). Roughly something like a mid-range PC compared to a "maybe" high-end PC.

But in order of low-end to high-end you have Lombok, Thames, Tahiti, and New Zealand (dual GPU version of Tahiti). Tahiti and NZ are using GCN and XDR2 while the others will use VLIW4 and GDDR5. There's a decent gap between Lombok XT and Thames Pro according to those specs. A target in that area should have a very good performance vs heat produced ratio.

If everything we've heard is true, then that's not a very outrageous prediction. In fact, if the 28nm rumors are accurate (It's the one I doubt the most) then this is probably the most reasonable prediction I've seen.

LOL. The "bold" part was kind of a joke (the prediction was bolded).

I think it's very reasonable based on what we know. I would think they would keep the 256-bit bus which would allow it pass Lombok which uses a 128-bit bus. Then the addition of e1T-SRAM.

I dunno, considering the power draw of those cards and the amount of ram they're packing, it just seems unlikely.

I'm not an expert though so I could definitely be wrong.

According to the specs the Lombok XT will be 60W and Thames Pro will be 90W. Something in between that should be fine. That All-in-one liquid cooling chamber seems like an interesting thing they could use if necessary. I kinda wonder if all consoles will consider some form of liquid cooling.

 

[BurntPork]

All depends on your perspective BurntPork.

3DS has no competition yet and regardless the race is a long one for handhelds, when all of Nintendo's guns have fired on the 3DS and its still a fail. you may have a point, but we just don't know yet.

In terms of competitive (and I assume you are talking about specs), the fact that they are first out of the gate means they are not going to compete on a specs basis does it?

Look who they are up against. Sony and Microsoft aggressively go after the specs crown with Microsoft finding a good balancing act of specs/API and Sony going all out on specs to be let down (or their devs let down) by a shit API.

Please don't use the "nothing has been announced regarding the next sony/ms hardware" line, it's just common sense. My opinion as well, but still common sense.

t's still more than possible for Nintendo to create a console powerful enough that next-gen engines can be ported down easily without a gigantic downgrade. Hell, if they make it powerful enough while keeping to price competitive (along with offering online that isn't shit), they can force MS and Sony's hands and make the gap even smaller. In 2012, it should be possible to make a console up to 8x as powerful as the current-gen. If Nintendo can go for at least 5x, then MS and Sony will only be able to make consoles 2.5x as powerful as Wii U, and that is at the absolute maximum. Really, I'd see them going for 8-10x current-gen while Nintendo hopefully goes for 6x.

 

[NateDrake]

That was said last-gen. It's definitely not insane at all.

High-end PCs today aren't unbelievably massive leaps over the current home consoles. They are more powerful and do stuff better, but the highest PC technology currently available isn't radically far ahead like it was 10yrs ago.

There is no HD revolution coming next-gen that greatly benefited consoles this generation and the leap won't be a massive one. It'll be a good one but nothing mindblowing.

 

[watershed]

High-end PCs today aren't massive leaps over the current home consoles. They are more powerful and do stuff better, but the highest technology currently available isn't that far ahead. There is no HD revolution coming next-gen that greatly benefited consoles this generation and the leap won't be a massive one. It'll be a good one but nothing mindblowing.

I so badly want to find that poster who keeps making threads about 4k resolutions being standard next gen and how awesome it will be!

 

[AceBandage]

I so badly want to find that poster who keeps making threads about 4k resolutions being standard next gen and how awesome it will be!

Haha, seriously.
Mobile tech has been making huge leaps in the past few years.
Desktop graphics have not, however.
It's basically just an evolution of what we've had for half a decade.

 

[EvilMario]

The build up to Brawl was amazing, especially on GAF. I only hope Nintendo and Sakurai tease us so much with the WiiU / 3DS version.

 

[BurntPork]

Uh, guys. I just noticed this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-HD-7900-XDR2-Rambus-Memory,13408.html#xtor=RSS-181

Thames XT is basically a faster 6970... with less than half the power consumption. This was a miscalcuation. A full next-gen jump is possible in 2012 if 28nm is used, so if Sony and MS wait until 2014, they can probably go as high as 15x the current-gen. If Nintendo holds back at all, it'll be Wii all over again. A 4870 won't cut it at all. At minimum, we need as much power as a 6870; any less, and Nintendo might as well not even bother and just go with an RV730 to cut costs and keep the price below $250...

 

[AceBandage]

The build up to Brawl was amazing, especially on GAF. I only hope Nintendo and Sakurai tease us so much with the WiiU / 3DS version.

While Japan Time was amazing, I don't think it was good overall for the game.
We need surprises left.

 

[nickcv]

Uh, guys. I just noticed this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-HD-7900-XDR2-Rambus-Memory,13408.html#xtor=RSS-181

Thames XT is basically a faster 6970... with less than half the power consumption. This was a miscalcuation. A full next-gen jump is possible in 2012 if 28nm is used, so if Sony and MS wait until 2014, they can probably go as high as 15x the current-gen. If Nintendo holds back at all, it'll be Wii all over again. A 4870 won't cut it at all. At minimum, we need as much power as a 6870; any less, and Nintendo might as well not even bother and just go with an RV730 to cut costs and keep the price below $250...

i just love how you always manage to see the bright side of things!

 

[BurntPork]

i just love how you always manage to see the bright side of things!

Look, I'm sorry, but seeing that AMD managed to get the power of a GTX 580 under 120W with a switch to a 40% smaller fab throws all of this talk about GPU tech not advancing out of the window. It's a pipe dream. Therefore, if Nintendo isn't going to go all-out, they shoud just go the Wii route and try to make the console as cheap at possible.

 

[NateDrake]

Look, I'm sorry, but seeing that AMD managed to get the power of a GTX 580 under 120W with a switch to a 40% smaller fab throws all of this talk about GPU tech not advancing out of the window. It's a pipe dream. Therefore, if Nintendo isn't going to go all-out, they shoud just go the Wii route and try to make the console as cheap at possible.

It isn't advancing all that much. They took the power that exists and made it more power conscious and smaller. Doesn't mean it is cost efficient for a manufacturer to use on a console nor does it mean it'll be a huge leap forward in visual deliverance.

You are the exact Nintendo fan that I wish Nintendo would address at their E3 conference by telling you to STFU and wait for them to show what they have coming. They aren't new to the industry and have been successful for 3 decades. You may question their decisions but they know what they are doing.

 

[Snakeyes]

Err, really?
All the big third party games that were shown as well as Ghost Recon, Killer Freaks and a new Assassin's Creed?
As well as announcing Pikmin 3 and a new Smash Bros?

Ghost Recon is a B-grade shooter that's been surpassed and forgotten for almost five years.
Killer Freaks is too goofy and unproven to be considered a big 3rd party game.
Asssassin's Creed is like that girl who's been sleeping all over the neighborhood. There's no reason for you to brag about bedding her because everyone from the GBA to the iPhone has already tapped that ass.

The dudebros don't give a crap about Smash, let alone Pikmin and have generally lost faith in the big Nintendo franchises.

They have shown nothing that would entice the "core" gamer from ditching the PS720 so far.

 

[BurntPork]

EDIT: Actually, I read correctly, but then I read incorrectly and.. Oh whatever. The point is that a 10x jump is possible in 2012, so Nintendo needs AT LEAST an 8x jump or else they're wasting time and money because they will be left out as Sony and MS have consoles 15x as powerful as the current gen.

 

[BurntPork]

It isn't advancing all that much. They took the power that exists and made it more power conscious and smaller. Doesn't mean it is cost efficient for a manufacturer to use on a console nor does it mean it'll be a huge leap forward in visual deliverance.

It's cost efficient, and that's my whole point. And the visual difference will be huge. PC games right now are held back by the fact that PCs don't really get exclusives anymore. Once we have all of that power in a closed box, the jump will be incredible.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

If the Gamecube or 3DS proved anything, then that Nintendo's franchises alone and a few (even if some big) 3rd party titles are not enough to make a platform REALLY successful. They're behind in quite a few ares compared to the competition, so they need to put a ton of effort into this, not just another 'half-step' as the 3DS.

3DS hasn't proved shit all, except that it sold better then the DS in it first few months and is still selling better than the DS did at this point in its lifespan. 3DS hasn't been out for a year, nor have the big hit titles come out and you're already calling it a failed platform.

 

[guek]

Goddamnit Burntpork, you're just so...your idiocy makes me choke on my own rage

The whole idea of nintendo HAS to do this or MS and Sony WILL do that is just stupid. You act like you know what they're planning when you haven't the slightest clue. There are countless scenarios that can potentially play out that we have no way of predicting. Saying this or that hardware MUST happen ignores the fact that graphical ability has never determined the outcome of a console generation. And who the hell fucking knows, it might in the future, but pretending like nintendo will be doomed if they don't do X because MS and Sony will definitely do Y is absolutely ridiculous. Every post I'm unlucky enough to read by you hammers in the point that you just don't know what you're talking about. And you know what, that'd be tolerable if you weren't so convinced that you're somehow always right.

 

[nickcv]

Goddamnit Burntpork, you're just so...your idiocy makes me choke on my own rage

The whole idea of nintendo HAS to do this or MS and Sony WILL do that is just stupid. You act like you know what they're planning when you haven't the slightest clue. There are countless scenarios that can potentially play out that we have no way of predicting. Saying this or that hardware MUST happen ignores the fact that graphical ability has never determined the outcome of a console generation. And who the hell fucking knows, it might in the future, but pretending like nintendo will be doomed if they don't do X because MS and Sony will definitely do Y is absolutely ridiculous. Every post I'm unlucky enough to read by you hammers in the point that you just don't know what you're talking about. And you know what, that'd be tolerable if you weren't so convinced that you're somehow always right.

he is the ultimate nintendo fanboy (not said in a bad way).
he wants nintendo to succeed so bad that he's scared by any potential move that could possibly allow them to be crashed by sony and microsoft.

he just needs to relax a little bit.

 

[BurntPork]

Goddamnit Burntpork, you're just so...your idiocy makes me choke on my own rage

The whole idea of nintendo HAS to do this or MS and Sony WILL do that is just stupid. You act like you know what they're planning when you haven't the slightest clue. There are countless scenarios that can potentially play out that we have no way of predicting. Saying this or that hardware MUST happen ignores the fact that graphical ability has never determined the outcome of a console generation. And who the hell fucking knows, it might in the future, but pretending like nintendo will be doomed if they don't do X because MS and Sony will definitely do Y is absolutely ridiculous. Every post I'm unlucky enough to read by you hammers in the point that you just don't know what you're talking about. And you know what, that'd be tolerable if you weren't so convinced that you're somehow always right.

I'm not saying anything about success or failure; rather, I'm saying that Nintendo should either push the graphics as far as they can within reason, or just go the Wii route and keep the price low. Going inbetween likely won't be enough guarantee better third-party support, so it would just be a waste of time an money for both Nintendo and anyone buying a Wii U.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

So between 40 and 50 GameCubes?

And about 1000 purple pikmin on crack.

 

[Luckyman]

bgassassin are you just setting up GAF on purpose?

Cause it sure seems like it

 

[bgassassin]

What ever do you mean Luckyman? Is it because I'm not stuck on believing the alpha kit will be the same as the final?

Uh, guys. I just noticed this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-HD-7900-XDR2-Rambus-Memory,13408.html#xtor=RSS-181

Thames XT is basically a faster 6970... with less than half the power consumption. This was a miscalcuation. A full next-gen jump is possible in 2012 if 28nm is used, so if Sony and MS wait until 2014, they can probably go as high as 15x the current-gen. If Nintendo holds back at all, it'll be Wii all over again. A 4870 won't cut it at all. At minimum, we need as much power as a 6870; any less, and Nintendo might as well not even bother and just go with an RV730 to cut costs and keep the price below $250...

I ... I don't understand what I just read.

Goddamnit Burntpork, you're just so...your idiocy makes me choke on my own rage

 

[BurntPork]

Luckyman?

Well, I'll see you guys in about an hour.
I think Luckyman still believes there's a chance of Wii U being weaker than PS3 and 360...

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Well I'm glad to see a week away hasn't tempered some of your insanity.

Stupid electric company doesn't warn me they are switching poles and fry my psu assholes!

Typing from a friends 1998 laptop.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

I've stated that power is my main concern. They have to lose money on the hardware in the beginning if they're hoping to deliver on their "system for everyone" promises.

Losing money in a world wide recession isn't a smart idea. More so if you most recent system wiped out all profits you made from previous generations or never made back in the first place.

Microsoft might be more willing to continue to throw money away, but Sony isn't in that position. Unless their new mission statement is to go bankrupt.

One shouldn't be surprised if specs aren't a huge leap.

 

[BurntPork]

I ... I don't understand what I just read.

Okay, I'll answer this first.

Basically, Thames XT offers a full generational jump over the current-gen, and it can be squeezed into a console. I initially expected it to only offer about as much power as a 6950, but instead its faster than a 6970, probably even on-par with the GTX 580, which is a full jump. Therefore, if Sony and MS were to wait for 20nm, they could make a console 15x the current-gen, if not even more. even at 28nm, we can expect a 10x jump to be the minimum. I'm thinking that Nintendo needs to has to be at least half as powerful as the other next-gen consoles to stand a chance of getting most ports, so Wii U needs to be at least 8x the current gen to compete, imo, and if they're not going to do that they might as well stick to current-gen power and Wii U and keep the price low. (No more than $250)

Well I'm glad to see a week away hasn't tempered some of your insanity.

Stupid electric company doesn't warn me they are switching poles and fry my psu assholes!

Typing from a friends 1998 laptop.

Were you using a surge protector?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Were you using a surge protector?

One I got a decade ago.

I know... I should upgrade anytime I have a new computer with a higher power draw. I just didn't think it'd fry the damn thing.

 

[bgassassin]

Okay, I'll answer this first.

Basically, Thames XT offers a full generational jump over the current-gen, and it can be squeezed into a console. I initially expected it to only offer about as much power as a 6950, but instead its faster than a 6970, probably even on-par with the GTX 580, which is a full jump. Therefore, if Sony and MS were to wait for 20nm, they could make a console 15x the current-gen, if not even more. even at 28nm, we can expect a 10x jump to be the minimum. I'm thinking that Nintendo needs to has to be at least half as powerful as the other next-gen consoles to stand a chance of getting most ports, so Wii U needs to be at least 8x the current gen to compete, imo, and if they're not going to do that they might as well stick to current-gen power and Wii U and keep the price low. (No more than $250)

I gotcha now. I guess for me part of it is that I don't believe MS and Sony will make it to 2014. We already have rumors where people have been working on the new Xbox already (not just devs, but people hired by MS). Then there was the "PS4 in 18mos." rumor. So that would eliminate the power jump you are talking about. But even if that were the case, there would be no need for Nintendo to step back in power when they could enjoy a roughly 18-month window of being the most powerful console before the other two came out. And once they began hitting their stride, Nintendo would be about ready to release their next console.