The PS3 Eye is a 640x480 camera @ 60fps, or 320x240 @ 120fps updates. The Wiimote IR pointing provides up to 1024x768 worth of resolution for it's pointing mechanism @ 100fps. The only drawback of the Wiimote's IR cam is it's low FOV. However, since you're pointing the Wiimote at the TV to interact with the game, this isn't much of a problem (versus the PS3 Eye which needs to track a room of Move wands)
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Wii U will be sold at a loss [Update: Confirmed]
- Thread starter Grampa Simpson
- Start date
The PS3 Eye is a 640x480 camera @ 60fps, or 320x240 @ 120fps updates. The Wiimote IR pointing provides up to 1024x768 worth of resolution for it's pointing mechanism @ 100fps. The only drawback of the Wiimote's IR cam is it's low FOV. However, since you're pointing the Wiimote at the TV to interact with the game, this isn't much of a problem (versus the PS3 Eye which needs to track a room of Move wands)
Buying any kind of quality controller cost $20+. And it does has a proprietary high speed wireless protocol. And have you actually tried to use one of those $80 tablets? The fact that you can build one doesn't mean that you should, is a miracle that they survive packing and shipping (which many don't).
GoofsterStud
Member
Play the versions of House of the Dead.
As a big fan I buy all versions, every system.
The PS3 versions are way more accurate.
Framerate. Play any FPS or Wii-Play.
The motion sensors, the universal TV stuff.
metalslimer
Member
If they are it's not because of the Wiimote. IR is factually more accurate than what Move is using.
All right so add a gyroscope. The universal tv features are just a function of the IR on the controller right?
Trogdor1123
Member
Silly question but with the discussion on DDR3 and GDDR5 what is the actuall difference? Is it just bandwidth essentially?
OldJadedGamer
Banned
I already stated eariler in the thread I believe it costs them around 1/3 the total cost of the system to create the controller. The fact that the controller costs more than 50% of the total launch retail package speaks volumes and no other company has had a mark up that high on controller vs total boxed system at launch. Not even close.
And again, if you or anyone else feels the controller is way lower than that then that means Nintendo is price gouging customers on levels never seen before in the game industry. More than double any other company for controllers at launch.
chertipros
Member
metalslimer
Member
The Wiimote costs like 5 bucks to make and is sold for 40 bucks. If the gamepad costs 60 bucks to make and the retail costs was 120-150 the markup isn't nearly as high.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
WiiMote is $30, not $40. So $30 controller on a $250 system. In USD the WiiU gamepad is basically $155 controller on a $300 system.
metalslimer
Member
What are you even talking about? We're talking about the markup on the controller sold at retail. And the Wiimote was always 40 dollars. I said that if you take normal markup for a controller the Wii U gamepad would barely cost anything to produce.
I Stalk Alone
Member
Wii motion plus and nunchuck cost less than $10 combined to manufacture 9 buttons, 1dpad ,1 analogue, 2a sensors 1gyro, one rumble unit, one camera to detect sensor bar, a speaker, small amount of memory, cable, connector, free aa batteries, lots of plastic, a strap and a wiimote rubber condom. I think from memory it is $6 for the wiimote and 2-3 for nunchuck.
You're incorrect.
An X-box 360 controller cost 11 dollars to produce, and was sold for what, 50 dollars? That's a 450 percent markup. You can't look at just raw numbers, it's a percentage markup. The controller costs more than a normal controller to produce, but it doesn't take up nearly as much of the cost of the console as you assume.
The wii-u is a more powerful system than the other two, with higher priced parts. It just doesn't fit into the Wii-U is weak shit that Nintendo is overcharging for meme that anti-nintendo people love to spew.
The fact that the system is selling for a loss bodes well for the guts of the system, and it's potential power for gaming applications.
Source? But yes, after you manufacture dozens of millions production tends to get cheaper.
Well, I'm on the camp that is convinced that Wii U is more powerful than what most here people give credit for, but I also believe that the higher than the expected production price is also because of Nintendo's insistence on the small factor and overall discrete profile of the device. The Wii U is more powerful than a 360 slim, for how much is debatable but what we know for a fact is that it's also much smaller, quieter and draws significantly less power. That doesn't come for free.
bigtroyjon
Member
$40 which is why the $50 WiiPlay with the remote included sold so well. Got to include the nunchuck too if you are going to continue on with this.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Controller Controller Controller.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
360 controller was $50 on a $300 system. Nintendo controller is $155 on a $300 system in USD.
I can include two Nunchucks with a WiiMote and it still won't be more than 50% of the total cost of the Wii like the gamepad is for the WiiU. The gamepad is that expensive on its own for a reason. For whatever reason, it costs them a lot to make or they are price gouging
DreadPirateRoberts
Member
Not really, i mean iirc Nintendo was only making like $6 per Wii at launch, the Gamepad could be making up the difference.
metalslimer
Member
So what? No one ever said the Gamepad didn't cost more to make than an Xbox controller that would be stupid. The point being made is that the gamepad didn't have to take up 1/3 of the total console cost if you take normal retail markup. Of course the 360 controller is less expensive and a smaller proportion of the costs compared to the gamepad. The whole point was how much of the system's costs went to the gamepad. You're explanation was either the thing was 1/3 of the component costs of the system or Nintendo was price gouging like never before.
I Stalk Alone
Member
By your argument
The black wii u must be
$155 gamepad and charger
$50 nintendo land
$50 for 32GB nand (based on other tablet pricing $100 extra from 8gb to 32GB but im being generous)
$20 stands
$75 for console.
That is an interesting take on the situation.
If you look at the isuppli teardowns for various tablets it's pretty consistent that the main cost is the display. The GamePad has a pretty nice display so I don't think it's comparable to the el cheapo $80 Android tablets.
I can't believe this statement went unchallenged in this thread. It's completely ridiculous that the GamePad doesn't have a processor. It has to connect to the Wii U system wirelessly, decompress video and audio, compress video from the camera and audio from the mic input, stream it to the system, all at the same time. Obviously it has a processor...
I can't believe this statement went unchallenged in this thread. It's completely ridiculous that the GamePad doesn't have a processor. It has to connect to the Wii U system wirelessly, decompress video and audio, compress video from the camera and audio from the mic input, stream it to the system, all at the same time. Obviously it has a processor...
CambriaRising
Member
I fixed it up for you.
I Stalk Alone
Member
The wii u display is 480p at 6.6 inch and it is resistive.
Well, even the 3DS lower screen is of considerably higher quality than my dad's $100 Android tablet, which hardly detects inputs and displays a terrible image with washed colors, 720p resolution notwithstanding.
I bet is better than the one in your average $80 android tablet, though.
metalslimer
Member
The display on the gamepad is usable and good for what it will be used for, but comparitively it's pretty mediocre.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
How do you explain the controller costing more than 50% of the console package then? What other system shares that percentage of controller cost vs launch price?
That is about right. I'd say under $100 for the Gamepad, under $200 for the main unit and anything left over would be power cord, hdmi, and boxing materials.
I Stalk Alone
Member
By his argument of pricing retail to every component and taking that away from the retail price of the package and getting the consule unit price based on thay. Cambria you are better than this.
Also from his argument do you think he is saying that the gamepad probably costs 155 to make because nintendo is taking losses on the unit.
accelerometer, gyroscope, camera, IR LEDs, IR blaster, magnetometer, dual analogs, 14 buttons, rumble pack, batteries, actual gamepad molding
OldJadedGamer
Banned
You don't know what I'm talking about and sorry I'm tired of explaing it. You yourself admitted you are a little slow so just let this one go as you are either not reading my posts or not understanding them.
It must have a small CPU as well.
You said the GamePad is 1/3 of the total system cost - to Nintendo. That means it would have to cost Nintendo around $100 to make one, since they're selling at a loss. There's just no way that's the case.
I Stalk Alone
Member
Oh i know what you are talking about. $100 bom on a controller with only 55% markup at retail. Take the markup for the retailer and how much do you think nintendo now gets for that controller. Historically and logically inaccurate based on the modus operandi of nintendo. Based on your argument the bom of 100 should make the tablet cost around $350 in retail not $155. Why did you suddenly come up with the idea that nintendo would start making low margins on the controller?
CambriaRising
Member
It doesn't seem like a far leap to think that the gamepad is a big contributing factor to the fact that this console, for the first time in a long time (If ever?) is causing nintendo to lose money at launch. And yeah, there was a little absurdity to my calculations but then again you labeled a couple of pieces of plastic as costing $20 to produce
.The Wiimote was 39.99 for many years.
It doesn't seem like a far leap to think that the gamepad is a big contributing factor to the fact that this console, for the first time in a long time (If ever?) is causing nintendo to lose money at launch. And yeah, there was a little absurdity to my calculations but then again you labeled a couple of pieces of plastic as costing $20 to produce
The tablet costs maybe 50 bucks to make. People are just ignorant and think hur hur its a repackaged 360 when its not. You have multiple CPU in the Console. a GPU that was finished being designed in mid to late 2011. Ram and a lot of other components. It all adds up
metalslimer
Member
This is begging the question because what other system comes with a controller like Wii U's to begin with?
ding ding ding
Although I would probably put it around 70-80 because of the battery costs.
Battery should be no more than 8-10 bucks in the BOM
CambriaRising
Member
Even at $50, that is a pretty big foothold when you consider how much 360/ps3 controllers cost to make. It obviously does more, but due to this the manufacturing process is not only more complex, but more costly. These costs directly contribute to the loss the company will take.
No one here is saying that Nintendo is doomed for taking a loss, but we can't sit around and pretend it is not in large part due to the controller.
I Stalk Alone
Member
It doesn't seem like a far leap to think that the gamepad is a big contributing factor to the fact that this console, for the first time in a long time (If ever?) is causing nintendo to lose money at launch. And yeah, there was a little absurdity to my calculations but then again you labeled a couple of pieces of plastic as costing $20 to produce
Once again by his argument and not mine i didnt state that it cost that much to produce at all im stating their retail prices based on him stating retail prices and i was showing how absurd it is to base his argument on retail prices by adding the absurd retail prices to the bundle. Do you get how now why i wrote those prices down? Cambria you should be spanked. Do you want to get spanked? There are monkeys around here that will do it.
I dont discount that the gamepad is a large contributing factor to the bom but im basing my prices on historical standards and experience in repairing consoles and controllers. The costs of the controller were already taken into consideratiom by nintendo and we still were under the understanding that historically nintendo would break even or make a modest profit based on their decision and the pricing structure of the units. The losses being somewhat unexpected is what is what we are trying to figure out and there is not enough technology in the controller itself to warrant nintendo goimg from a say $10 profit per unit to say $10 loss per unit so based on what goes into making a gamepad with a screen. Our argument is that it is more of a wholistic event, such as yen appreciation rather than tacking on an extra 20 bucks to a controller out of the blue.
$100 BOM on the controller is too much based on the retail price and the historica markups of controllers. Retailers would be pissed if they had to buy controllers from nintendo at $125 and then sell them for $155. Nintendo would be crying if they sold their controllers at only 25% markup to retailers. It just doesnt make sense for them historically.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
I said around. So anywhere from $80 to $100 give or take. But I ask again, if it is way cheaper to make how are they charging more than 50% of the total cost of the unit for extra controllers.
Agree.
CambriaRising
Member
Welp. This got pretty weird fast.
metalslimer
Member
Of course it plays a large part. I'm just disputing the idea that it costs like 100 bucks to make one.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I can't stop laughing though.
I mean it just goes around in circles over and over.
Not picking on anyone in particular, or trying to choose favorites, but that Lonely1 guy is the only person I've been following in this thread. Only one that seems to understand what limitations the WiiU case design imposed on the hardware, while lauding what they've achieved at 50 watts and one tiny fan.
edit: Well I do have my whipping wand and tiara handy.
I could blister a butt or two for the right price.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
I around 1/3. We don't know the retailer cut either. So it could be $80 to $100 and you said $80 so we are in the same ballpark.
Iwata said they chose a price for the system based on what they think people will find reasonable, ignoring the cost of manufacturing. So while the total system is priced at a loss, the controller sold by itself most definitely is not. You can't compare the two of them as if they were priced the same way.