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Wiimote accuracy according to Activision... - old?

Vieo

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http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1539642/20060828/index.jhtml?headlines=true&rsspartner=rssYahooNewscrawler



NEW YORK — Mike Chrzanowski wants you to try to break the Marvel superhero game he's working on. Just try. He expects you to fail.

Flick your wrist to shoot Spider-Man's webs and shake your hand to spin Thor's hammer. Five gestures trigger the moves of any one of the pantheon of Marvel heroes included in this fall's "Marvel: Ultimate Alliance." The Nintendo Wii game is published by Activision and developed by Vicarious Visions in upstate New York, where the tall, long-haired Chrzanowski serves as an associate designer.

Five moves do it all, from hurling Captain America's shield to throwing a Wolverine-clawed uppercut. Shake the Wii remote. Jab it forward. Lift it up. Press it down. Or cut it sharply to the side, left or right. On an Xbox 360, the same moves can be triggered with a press of a button or a staccato press of a few. If the Wii controls sound imprecise, well that was a problem a few weeks ago. But on the day of the interview, and the day the game comes out, there will be no — OK, almost no — fooling the Wii.

"Now in some cases people will do something that's not going to work right, and in that case they're probably going to have to adjust the way they do it," said Chrzanowski, a black Wii development controller in hand. "But that's a rare case."

He wasn't talking idly. He said a system developed by a Vicarious colleague, Jesse Raymond, a few weeks ago has been crunching the data of dozens of players who have tested the game on the Wii, analyzing the results of requests for players to do 10 swipes in a row or 10 stabs in a row, recognizing which moves the current version of the game fails to recognize as the intended gesture, tweaking the code, checking the pool of data from the gesture trials again for any new misunderstandings, repeat and recode, again and again. The result? "Within a week it went from being 60 to 70 percent reliable to 97 percent reliable," Chrzanowski said.

Like he said, don't expect the Wii to get confused.


Developers have been coming to grips with Nintendo's motion-sensitive Wii controller for the better part of the year. In the past few weeks, some of the first American teams that have sweated it out for the Nintendo console's upcoming launch have begun to talk publicly about what they figured out.

Last week in a midtown hotel room, an Activision producer showcased the glitzier high-definition version of "Marvel: Ultimate Alliance" for the Xbox 360. Then Chrzanowski took the baton to demo the Wii version. In the near-final build being demonstrated, a pull-down menu on the upper right corner showed diagrams of each superpower's Wii gesture. And every time the player made a move, the diagram for that move flashed at the bottom of the screen, reinforcing Wii rookies' understanding of what they just did. (The latter option can be turned off).

"Marvel: Ultimate Alliance" will be familiar to gamers who have battled through Activision's Marvel adventures before. Players pick a quartet of Marvel heroes from a roster of dozens and, from an overhead view, muscle them through hideouts and hallways, pummeling waves of villains and henchmen.

Opportunity abounded when Vicarious Visions was assigned to make the Wii version of the game. So did temptation. Vicarious' developers were proud how quickly the company adopted Nintendo's last unconventional game system, the stylus-driven DS, and wanted to prove they were quick studies on the Wii as well. More enticing still was the subject matter at hand for the first Wii project: characters known for their memorable gestures. Spider-Man shoots his webs with a flick of his wrist. Wolverine reveals his claws with a forearm shudder. Thor twirls his hammer, and Captain America hurls a shield. Here was a company and a cluster of characters ideally suited for getting the most out of the Wii controller and for maybe pushing the idea of motion control a little too hard too soon.

"Early on I had, like, 20 gestures," Chrzanowski said. His bosses at Vicarious told him to tone things down because they didn't think people could remember all of that. Stripped down to a handful, the gestures were initially really big. To do something super you'd have to make a super-sized move.

"We had an extreme level of effort and you had to whip the controller like that," Chrzanowski said, making a big swing of his arm. "I went home and was like, 'Wow, my arm's stronger.' "

The point of the game, though, wasn't to deliver a workout. And so they made the game accommodate a broader range of moves.

"You can swing the controller around like a madman if you want to and get all immersed in it, or a basic flick of the wrist will get everything accomplished." The analog stick on the Wii's nunchuck attachment controls movement.


Just as the team working on Activision's "Tony Hawk" Wii game messed around with taping the Wii controller to a skateboard and other unusual applications, Vicarious Visions explored some detours of its own. Before focusing the gesture controls on triggering superhero moves, the developers considered making a point-and-click version of the game using just the Wii remote. Then they tried a version Chrzanowski described as "tilt and roll," in which tilting the remote forward made a character walk forward; a tilt back made them move back; and rolls to the left and right made the character turn in the respective direction. "That was cool, but we felt we could have done more," he said.

They're doing more but being sure not to do too much more. Chrzanowski controlled the game like a shy conductor leading a symphony, with small, fluid, consecutive motions. He felt good as he demoed. And he didn't seem to get the Wii confused. Neither did two reporters testing the machine. There will be a few more guinea pigs when the game launches later this year.


It sounds like given proper code, the Wiimote can be pretty accurate.


edit: Bolded for... boldness.
 
Thanks for posting this.

It sounds like accurate 1:1 movements should be pretty standard by all but the laziest devs.
 
How does this sound good to anyone? I didn't see anything about 1:1 control, only how they made the game recognize the predetermined motions better.
 
97% stab accuracy. Anyway, this suggests that activision is making a game that involves stabbing. Any ideas which one?
 
koam said:
97% stab accuracy. Anyway, this suggests that activision is making a game that involves stabbing. Any ideas which one?

NEW YORK — Mike Chrzanowski wants you to try to break the Marvel superhero game he's working on. Just try. He expects you to fail.

Eh? Claws... Wolverine.. ... stabbing. I dunno, just a hunch.
 
Nice piece. It should be a source of embarassment for sites like IGN & Gamespot that MTV is doing better games journalism than they are - this article has given me more interesting, useful information than any half-a-dozen articles from IGN in the past few weeks.

The gesture recognition work Vicarious are doing is reassuring - it's all very well being able to recognise a movement as the trigger for an action, but there has to be a degree of flexibility in there to account for variations between instances, between players etc. otherwise you'll trigger the wrong move or be stuck moving the remote trying to carry out a particular action. Hopefully other devs will be taking the same approach for games that have gesture-recognition.
 
uh he's talking about gestures triggering a reaction. basically, jabbing forward = A button.
Saying that when tuned, jabbing forward will be read as jabbing forward, not tilting to the right.

Not like, sword fighting or 1:1 gun control here fellas.


with that said, i really enjoy MTVs game coverage. better than their pop music crap.
 
Confidence Man said:
How does this sound good to anyone? I didn't see anything about 1:1 control, only how they made the game recognize the predetermined motions better.

That in itself is a good thing. Games that ask the player to make a particular movement require to recognise numerous "almost-there" movements otherwise the player may trigger another move or simply not be able to trigger the correct movement.

As for 1:1, you're right - there is no mention in there. What does sound promising is that the small variations between players are being detected. If that's correct, then the remote is as sensitive as it's reputed to be & 1:1, or something very close, should be possible.
 
Magicpaint said:
Honestly-- I was beginning to question if the controller was good enough to. Glad to see a ray of hope here. FPS games might work beautifully well afterall.
The problem with FPS gameplay on the Wii has little to do with the accuracy of the device, you know...
 
SantaCruZer said:
it's possible to do 1:1 on the wii controller right? Havent heard a game that uses it yet.


Wasn't there an interview with Ubisoft where they said they tried giving the user complete control over moving the sword but it was too awkward or something like that?
 
SantaCruZer said:
it's possible to do 1:1 on the wii controller right? Havent heard a game that uses it yet.
I think Wii Sports Baseball uses it. In the videos, it appeared that all movements from pre-swing all the way through post-swing were tracked.

Also, Ubisoft reportedly said that they originally tried 1:1 movements for Red Steel, but they deemed it to not be "fun."
 
Well the 1:1 controls arent really much of a problem i guess. FPS's are very accurate and thats basically what you guys are talking about. The biggest concern on Wii controls was how well it would respond in reading the motions you make and connect those to preset actions/animations ingame. This article finally tells us that won't be a problem by using hard numbers. Not some halfbaked "it'll be fine".
 
Confidence Man said:
How does this sound good to anyone? I didn't see anything about 1:1 control, only how they made the game recognize the predetermined motions better.
Why would you want 1:1 control in a third person action/RPG? That would be ridiculous.
 
Eddz said:
I'm sure that 94% of GAF feels the same way after they play with their Wii.
Sg7a1G.jpg


 good thing the nunchaku is motion sensitive too 
 
Only 5 gestures for every character? I wish they would go with 20 gestures, that way the game doesn't get so repetitive. I don't think that people would have that hard of a time remembering evey move as long as they were based on the motions the character would be making.
 
if even Activision can get it to work...

But the reduction to 5 moves sounds ridiculous. Humans have a natural capacity to remember vast quantities of different body movements whereas they do not have a natural capacity to remember vast quantities of button combinations. At least the 2nd generation of Wii titles won't be retarded efforts from Activision
 
JJConrad said:
Only 5 gestures for every character? I wish they would go with 20 gestures, that way the game doesn't get so repetitive. I don't think that people would have that hard of a time remembering evey move as long as they were based on the motions the character would be making.


Think of it like the Mortal Kombat sequels. Who can remember all the button/d-pad combos for a character's moves + fatalities + animalities + babalities + friendships. :lol
 
Chris Remo said:
Why would you want 1:1 control in a third person action/RPG? That would be ridiculous.

Well, not really, just some indication that there's something more than just 'wiggle it this way = button press'.
 
That article is mroe well written than anything I've read on harcore gaming sites. IGN, Gamespot should be looking.

..
 
Yay. Exactly what I feared we'd see for Wii. Graphically dumbed down ports of games for other next-gen platforms with retarded hand waving replacing actions that work perfectly well on buttons.

The real message here is this: Activision sucks.
 
typhonsentra said:
Couldn't it just be the subjects just learn to work under the rules of the controls better as time went by?
Then they would have said that. Most game devs take testing seriously, I mean testers play for HOURS. Would they want to comprimise their work by not doing what they're suppose to?
 
Jeff-DSA said:
It sounds like accurate 1:1 movements should be pretty standard by all but the laziest devs.

Activision is one of the laziest developers. If they can make it 1:1, everyone should be able to.
 
What games exactly would benefit from 1:1 movement tracking? The only types I can think of is stuff like Wii Sports, Flying, and Fps games. Gesture based gameplay isn't terrible. The whole point of gesture based gameplay is the way in which it can enable more natural actions and reactions to game situations. I don't like where they are going with only 5 movements, but gestures can very easily replace what would be MANY MANY buttons. Also pointing based accuracy and game play can be extremely helpful as well. The Wii controller is very versatile and it is really up to the imagination what to do with it.
 
Lazy ports to the Wii could end up being really terrible. You can't have less than 100% accuracy on controls...jesus.
 
BigGreenMat said:
The whole point of gesture based gameplay is the way in which it can enable more natural actions and reactions to game situations.

Bingo. The criticism of this type of control that crops up quite often - "they're just mapping actions to movements? Why not just use buttons?" - misses the point of gesture commands. Button-pushes are an abstract form of input - player pushes this symbol, then something happens. That's effective, but it isn't as immediate or intuitive as a system that says "if you make this movement, a similar/identical movement will happen".
 
Pushing a button is far more immediate and intuitive than swirling your arm around or whatever. Jesus, im buying a Wii but nintendo fans are out of their freaking minds. :lol
 
TheDuce22 said:
Sounds like they are just talking about activating a move. Last I checked pushing in a button is always 100%.

Lol, you should play more fighting games. Button combos definately aren't always 100%
 
TheDuce22 said:
Pushing a button is far more immediate and intuitive than swirling your arm around or whatever. Jesus, im buying a Wii but nintendo fans are out of their freaking minds. :lol

Cheers for that.

You're missing the point, though. Once you know that button F makes your character perform move Y then using that method is fine. The advantage of gesture recognition is that what you ask the player to do can be less of an abstraction and can actually be closer to the action you want your avatar to perform. "Point where you want to shoot" is more immediate than "tilt that stick that way, and then that one that way..." and "flick to the right to pass right" is more immediate than telling someone "press direction-button plus Z".
 
NEW YORK — Mike Chrzanowski wants you to try to break the Marvel superhero game he's working on. Just try. He expects you to fail.

Isn't that the little green guy from monsters Inc?



Thanks for posting this.

It sounds like accurate 1:1 movements should be pretty standard by all but the laziest devs.

how do you work that out? Unless its a standard library supplied by Nintendo, I'll assume most devs will be too lazy to go that that level of detail. I expect a lot of frustration along the lines of the speech recognition in Brain Training.

"stab you bastard. Stab stab stab."

"honey, come here and take a look at this. Does this look like I'm stabbing to you?"
 
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