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[Foxy Fox 39]

Couldnt watch the whole thing. Turned it off after they killed the photographer as he was running. Disgusting.

I really pray that those people and the superiors are brought to justice. That was so messed up. And yeah, makes you sad that your country has done something so brutally wrong.

 

[Hari Seldon]

You join the army, you know that your life is gonna be at risk. Why the fucking hell doesnt the American army make sure that the people its firing at are insurgents, not civilians? Isnt it supposed to be the best military in the world? Fucking pathetic.

Like maybe they should fedex uniforms to all of the bad guys and they will politely agree to wear them.

 

[obaidr]

Man I despise what these people did, but shut up. Unless you're just trolling, in which case, shut up.

For what reason would one take a gun and go 10k miles if not for stealing, killing and hurting people?

 

[Tim the Wiz]

The Apache crew fired because militants "were endangering the stability of Iraq" and because they had positive identification that the militants "had weapons and were using them against coalition and Iraqi security forces," said Maj. Brent Cummings, the battalion's executive officer. "No innocent civilians were killed on our part deliberately. We took great pains to prevent that. I know that two children were hurt, and we did everything we could to help them. I don't know how the children were hurt."

They had positive identification they were hostiles? The weapons - rockets and machine-guns - were in actual use against friendlies? No innocents were killed deliberately? They didn't know how the children were hurt?

Yes, that's exactly what I saw in the video. Such utter, utter lies.

As I said: A significant portion of the defense of the action that took place in the video and, more pertinently, the cover-up that followed is the tempest of rationalizing rather than rational thought.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Cognitive Dissonance, never underestimate its power to uphold the status quo.

 

[RedShift]

Yeah, after the van changed the situation from a wounded unarmed man on the curb to a black van rolling into a killzone.

Even assuming the van showed ANY signs of aggression toward the troops, did the man on the ground deserve to die because some people showed up and picked him up? He wasn't in much state to resist them.

 

[Frustrated_me]

Maaaaannn... I dont even know what to say

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Like maybe they should fedex uniforms to all of the bad guys and they will politely agree to wear them.

Uhh if you're gonna kill someone, how about make sure they are the enemy? If it puts the soldiers lives at a higher risk then so be it. They knew what they were getting into.

 

[Zeliard]

This man was a combatant (although it later turns out to be the reporter)

:lol

Pretty big fucking distinction there, don't you think? "We thought it was a dog, and we later found out it was a tree branch."

 

[Furoba]

I nearly had to throw up seeing this...

 

[daw840]

Well honestly most of the soldiers who go in to a foreign country to kill poeple as their jobs are murderers anyway. Period. There is no reason for one single american soldier to be in iraq or afghanistan and kill poeple. For what reason? They should better fight fox news and the teaparty, people who hurt their country, childeren and friends.

Wow man. You know, I don't hate very many people, and I think a lot of GAFers are plain dumb sometimes (myself included at times) but this is probably the absolute worst comment I have ever seen on these boards. Fuck to you bro, fuck to you.

 

[Jex]

I'm so glad I decided not to actually watch it. Hearing these responses is enough for to confirm that.

 

[Talas]

Haha, it looks like msnbc is censoring searches for "wikileaks".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

Try anything else then wikileaks :lol

 

[BobTheFork]

I don't the weapon is as much of an issue as you think. They slaughtered a group of people whom they believed to be hostile towards them. A few here have claimed that there was reason to believe, and even confirmed, that one or two did have weapons. But then not every Iraqi who carries a weapon is considered hostile by default and even if these two individuals were carrying weapons, how can you open fire on the entire group? It only exposes a flaw in the ROE.

What we can all agree on is however this was a case of misidentification. Granted. But it's quite clear to me and others that these guys were too desperate to hold the trigger on that day. The lack of sympathy for the confirmed injuries to the children underlines that. So I think you could build more of a case here than mere misidentification depending on how aggressive the Prosecutors went about it.

A few years ago there was a similar case with a pilot. When it was confirmed that the targets were friendly, he started to sob. I don't think anyone would have an issue with him once it was clear the guy genuinely felt remorse. The opposite here happens, and I think the tone of their language is actually equally disturbing as the images in the video

Well, to me the issue of the weapon is what I keep looking at. You see them ID '5-6 guys with AK's' and then they think they see an RPG and that's when he says "All right, we got a guy with an RPG, I'm going to fire" That RPG is what convinces them to pull the trigger, so it seems important to me. That's why I bring it up.
I don't know what to say about the lack of sympathy really, but in some ways I think that how a military HAS to act, there just isn't any other way to do it. I don't think it's something you can just put on the US military either. You have to teach soldiers that if their life is threatened (I don;t know how much of a threat an RPG is to a appache honestly), they must shoot first. I think that's the only way I think a proper military can exist. It's not like a cop catching a criminal, it's a military operation that they consider to be war. Waiting to totally confirm whether or not that guy can really kill you with a rocket or not would get many soldiers killed. It would demoralize the military and make them ineffective and easily threatened. I'm really not trying to say they were justified here at all, I just honestly have no idea what I would be thinking in that case. I also wonder what a court would have to prove to convict them.

 

[lethial]

Well honestly most of the soldiers who go in to a foreign country to kill poeple as their jobs are murderers anyway. Period. There is no reason for one single american soldier to be in iraq or afghanistan and kill poeple. For what reason? They should better fight fox news and the teaparty, people who hurt their country, childeren and friends.

This post is almost as disgusting as the video.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

depressing

 

[Calcaneus]

For what reason would one take a gun and go 10k miles if not for stealing, killing and hurting people?

I know you probably don't wanna believe it, but a lot of people actually do join the military to protect their country.

Its naive to think that they are all good people, sure, but its equally naive to think the opposite.

 

[Rur0ni]

:lol

Pretty big fucking distinction there, don't you think? "We thought it was a dog, and we later found out it was a tree branch."

First off, a human is a human. You can't tell if they're an innocent or a combatant especially because there is no uniform code over there. Good try though.

Even assuming the van showed ANY signs of aggression toward the troops, did the man on the ground deserve to die because some people showed up and picked him up? He wasn't in much state to resist them.

He "deserved" to die when they initially opened fire on the group. It was his fortune that he was still alive. And had others not put him (or attempt to) in the unmarked van rolling into a killzone, depending on his wounds he may have survived the entire encounter. But because he was a "combatant" who was already meant to be killed and was pulled into a situation where he was no longer in view and the party that picked him up was not identified as a rescue vehicle he unfortunately (in hindsight) was killed. I'm sure if that was a white vehicle with a big red cross on it they wouldn't have opened fire.

 

[Brannon]

Haha, it looks like msnbc is censoring searches for "wikileaks".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

Try anything else then wikileaks :lol

I think you're going to have to take the 's' off the end of Wikileak; you'll get results then.

 

[Zenith]

Who here said it excuses what happened? Anyone? At all?

how about the person I quoted? duuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[volmer]

Wow. The guy manning the cannon is so trigger happy that it really hurts to watch. I simply don't buy the idea that he is desensitized due to the nature of his job -- he practically begs for the OK to engage... This is so terrible and I feel truly sorry for the victims.

I never understood why someone would join the military in the first place, but how can people even consider a military career when stuff like this is brushed off as "just another day in the field" or "shit happens".

P.S.: Guns are bad.

 

[Polari]

Way to go America.

 

[Freshmaker]

Well honestly most of the soldiers who go in to a foreign country to kill poeple as their jobs are murderers anyway. Period. There is no reason for one single american soldier to be in iraq or afghanistan and kill poeple. For what reason? They should better fight fox news and the teaparty, people who hurt their country, childeren and friends.

This is one of the lowest points of internet discourse I've ever witnessed.

 

[NeoUltima]

Watched full video. Touchy subject here.

 

[Pandaman]

Haha, it looks like msnbc is censoring searches for "wikileaks".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

Try anything else then wikileaks :lol

wow. :lol

 

[Sickboy007]

Haha, it looks like msnbc is censoring searches for "wikileaks".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

Try anything else then wikileaks :lol

What the fuck???

 

[AcciDante]

So are any news stations covering this? I've just been reading this thread off my phone.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

While I appreciate the radioactivity of this video and would be stunned to see it up on a major news site, I still have to point out that CNN.com's headline stories right this second are:

"Tiger Woods: 'I've done some things that were just horrible'"

and

"Do They Love Their iPads?"

/sigh.

 

[Zoe]

Haha, it looks like msnbc is censoring searches for "wikileaks".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

Try anything else then wikileaks :lol

huh, it works if it's your first search

 

[blame space]

So are any news stations covering this? I've just been reading this thread off my phone.

I've seen a lot of Tiger Woods coverage.

 

[Brinbe]

While I appreciate the radioactivity of this video and would be stunned to see it up on a major news site, I still have to point out that CNN.com's headline stories right this second are:
"Tiger Woods: 'I've done some things that were just horrible'"
and
"Do They Love Their iPads?"
/sigh.

Yep, I expressed similar thoughts earlier, but it really is some blatantly shameful shit.

 

[Roi]

They clearly do, but they wanted to murder the bad guys. The higher ups will chew people out for killing civilians.

All I can say is that I'm glad I don't have to make those kinds of life and death decisions on a daily basis.

And who are the bad guys?

 

[Dragona Akehi]

It's up on the BBC.

 

[Iknos]

These guys were charged with finding these groups and taking them out. So when they see a group of men with weapons and one of them peeking around a corner with an RPG there's no room for hesitation.

If they were charged with "finding these groups" they failed horribly.

So you're telling me these guys are bad soldiers because they couldn't do their job.

 

[pakkit]

Okay, so it did look like one of the guys had an RPG...but then when the copter sweeps around it's obvious that none of them are trying to down the craft, they're just standing around. And then they all flee when shot at, they don't try to shoot, and one just lies in the sand as the gunner pumps rounds into his body.

Disgraceful. I'm glad this game to light. I know this happens much more than it gets reported, but the media sweeps it under the rug as "insurgents." Women, children, reporters...insurgents.

 

[ezekial45]

So is CNN and MSNBC prohibited to put up articles about it?

 

[Rur0ni]

If they were charged with "finding these groups" they failed horribly.

So you're telling me these guys are bad soldiers because they couldn't do their job.

Nice.

 

[Scipius]

He "deserved" to die when they initially opened fire on the group. It was his fortune that he was still alive. And had others not put him (or attempt to) in the unmarked van rolling into a killzone, depending on his wounds he may have survived the entire encounter. But because he was a "combatant" who was already meant to be killed and was pulled into a situation where he was no longer in view and the party that picked him up was not identified as a rescue vehicle he unfortunately (in hindsight) was killed. I'm sure if that was a white vehicle with a big red cross on it they wouldn't have opened fire.

I'm struck by the people defending the second round as caused by the fact the van was not clearly marked as a rescue vehicle. We first are led to believe the first round occured because the group displayed the behaviour of combatants. They were then gunned down, but one unarmed man survived. This man is then approached by the group in the van, which did not display this behaviour, but were still gunned down just the same. Was this then simply because they were in the "kill zone"? You do realise this occured in the middle of a city? What concrete threat did the group in the van pose? I'd say it's obvious the RoE were not followed or are inadequate for this kind of environment.

 

[Funky Papa]

It's up on the BBC.

It looks like plenty of non-US based outlet is reporting it. Funny how it works.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-army-iraq-attack
http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/art...e-bavure-americaine-en-irak_1329166_3222.html
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2010/...4a3cfd1ab9af1f292a130af3&t=1270499705&numero=

Edit: German and Italian sites are still behind, though.

 

[Biff]

Wow, this thread is moving fast.

What kind of range does an Apache have? Do the people in this video not see a military gunship circling them, nose pointed directly towards them?

Maybe it's so far away they can't even hear/see the chopper? Because you gotta think something bad is going to happen when a gunship circles your group 3 times.

Thanks to everyone who responded, very informative posts - learned something new today.

 

[blame space]

So is CNN and MSNBC prohibited to put up articles about it?

...prohibited?

 

[daw840]

Okay, so it did look like one of the guys had an RPG...but then when the copter sweeps around it's obvious that none of them are trying to down the craft, they're just standing around. And then they all flee when shot at, they don't try to shoot, and one just lies in the sand as the gunner pumps rounds into his body.

Disgraceful. I'm glad this game to light. I know this happens much more than it gets reported, but the media sweeps it under the rug as "insurgents." Women, children, reporters...insurgents.

Just because they are not trying to down that particular chopper doesn't mean they aren't trying to down or kill other US/Iraqi soldiers. It's called providing cover.

 

[iamaustrian]

First off, a human is a human. You can't tell if they're an innocent or a combatant especially because there is no uniform code over there. Good try though.

He "deserved" to die when they initially opened fire on the group. It was his fortune that he was still alive. And had others not put him (or attempt to) in the unmarked van rolling into a killzone, depending on his wounds he may have survived the entire encounter. But because he was a "combatant" who was already meant to be killed and was pulled into a situation where he was no longer in view and the party that picked him up was not identified as a rescue vehicle he unfortunately (in hindsight) was killed. I'm sure if that was a white vehicle with a big red cross on it they wouldn't have opened fire.

I can't believe you honestly try to defend they van-attack.
what the hell is wrong with you?

and stop with that "Killzone"-term bullshitting. it makes me sick

 

[BobTheFork]

While I appreciate the radioactivity of this video and would be stunned to see it up on a major news site, I still have to point out that CNN.com's headline stories right this second are:

"Tiger Woods: 'I've done some things that were just horrible'"

and

"Do They Love Their iPads?"

/sigh.

Oh, just give up there, I had to. After they arrested 9 potential terrorists last week, CNN had a single link at the bottom of the list and the leading most popular stories were about American Idol and Ipads.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

It looks like every non-US based outlet is reporting it. Funny how it works.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-army-iraq-attack
http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/art...e-bavure-americaine-en-irak_1329166_3222.html
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2010/...4a3cfd1ab9af1f292a130af3&t=1270499705&numero=

What depresses me most is that it is not (as of my writing this post) up on Reuters, which had been fighting the Army for the release of these videos in the first place.

 

[Brannon]

Yay Seattle. Guess they're the first US outlet to step up with the bad news.

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1155ap_us_iraq_shooting.html

 

[BorkBork]

It looks like every non-US based outlet is reporting it. Funny how it works.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-army-iraq-attack
http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/art...e-bavure-americaine-en-irak_1329166_3222.html
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2010/...4a3cfd1ab9af1f292a130af3&t=1270499705&numero=

Maybe a bit of this going on?

 

[OriginalThinking]

Outraged at the video. But what angers me is the way the Military swept this under the carpet and the bullshit statements. If there aren't serious repercussions or deep unease in Washington regarding the cover up of the excessive force and complete lack of accountability for the people who commited this atrocity then god help us all.

 

[mello]

Wow. This is fucking mad. Just saw the part where there are a pile of bodies. WTF is wrong with America? I don't know if it's the soliders just being overwhelmed by there authority, or if it's the government giving them these protocols. Either way, the blame needs to be consolidated, because this is fucking stupid. I'm pretty saddened by this.

 

[Hari Seldon]

The Pentagon/Politicians cover this shit up because they correctly assume that most Americans are sheltered sensitive souls that don't realize that shit like this goes down all the time in war. The only difference was that in this case there happened to be a journalist so someone in the west actually gave a shit that he died.