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[Kappa]

I always thought this was a running joke here....

 

[Faithless83]

Where are all these supposed pot bellied women leads in games? And no bald men? Bruh, were you just asleep during the whole PS3/360 gen?

Hell, see RE 3 Remake for making the anti-woke conspiracy nuts look crazy. Jill's look was revealed and the anti-woke bitches lost their minds. A supposed ugly redesign* and a tank top with pants. OH NOES! The wokies have invaded Resident Evil! Oh, except you could get her tube top costume…..and there was a certain tentacle scene…..yeah. Now did the crowd who freaked the fuck out take the L like a champ and admit their mistake? LOL, no, of course not, the more unhinged ones just doubled down on their insistence that the new Jill was hideous and the rest quietly went on with their business hoping no one would notice their fuck up.

Guess what, shitlords, we DID notice.

*again, certain sites of culture disproved this bullshit. Numbers don't lie.

It sold like shit because it was a pacing mess, short with an added multiplayer minigame nobody wanted.
The ugly Jill was just one of it's problems. Claire's face is a bit off too, but the game was so good people quickly ignored it.

Capcom leaked files stated that they are trying to be more inclusive to cater to the "west blue hair crowd who doesn't buy games anyway".
Maybe RE3 failure was enough... surely it was enough to keep RE4 remake on the oven for a lot longer.

But RE3 was only one japanese game in a vast catalog of western games with either fugly or masculine female protagonists.

Assassins Creed Valhalla female looks like a beardless male version.

I always thought this was a running joke here....

I guess you got that mixed up with "drive by comments".

 

[PeteBull]

hey! body building/working out doesn't change your voice. damn. She isn't juicing in the game, so why even say that. wtf.

She is juicing hella much to reach this kind of body, even bikini/fitness competitors do use performance enhancing drugs on higher lvl and what Abby presents with her musculature/strenght is way above that, she is roughly at strongwoman lvls

 

[Belthazar]

Imagine calling a woman that looks like this ugly:

While most likely looking like this:

Incels are quite funny (in a very sad way)

 

[purvispisgah]

hey! body building/working out doesn't change your voice. damn. She isn't juicing in the game, so why even say that. wtf.

I realize that most people don't know much about exogenous hormone use and the side effects, but voice changes absolutely accompany women taking them.

Lifting weights alone doesn't change women's voices, but Abby has a physique that is not naturally achievable for most women.

 

[Faithless83]

Imagine calling a woman that looks like this ugly:

While most likely looking like this:

Incels are quite funny (in a very sad way)

Imagine looking like this and have this 3d representation:

I know I shouldn't expect better from someone that "don't care" but takes the time to call people names.

Are you offended by some post in particular? There is a button for that, you know?

 

[Woggleman]

Any woman living in the worlds of TLOU or Horizon could not be dainty and weak and still survive. In order to deal with fungus infected people who want to devour you or violent factions willing to kill on sight you have to be strong. In order to deal with hostile tribes and robotic killing machines that attack on sight you have to be tough. It is survival of the fittest in these worlds. If they were realistic Aloy would be scarred to hell from fighting machines and have leathery skin from being out in the sun so much.

 

[Dragon_Rocks]

Once again you used 2 traits to describe 2 very different characters. I said replace the characters to a full male cast and it wouldn't work. Not only because of the plot but the character traits.
Looks like you haven't played RE2. What japanese game with female leads/or in bigger roles you've played?
Because this is how this conversation feels like:



I'm saying one thing, you change the point of what I said and I have to correct you again. I mostly had conversations going like this with leftists and women. I would bet money that you are at least one of them.

Back to Abby/Ellie that's what we used to call a 2 dimensional character. There is a motivation and that's it. It lacks depth, pretty much like the TLOU2 female cast, which had a lot more time than Resident Evil 2 to develop their character.

I can also point you to Final Fantasy 7 Remake. A lot of females, every single one of them different from each other and with several female traits. Have you played it?

You are the one who gave those 2 traits and called them feminine. You said a female would have protective nature like Claire does and that is a feminine trait, right? Are you saying no males will have protective nature like that?

Lets make this very simple for discussion. Do yo think all the females in the real world have feminine traits, physical and character wise? Or that there can be no real life persons who are like Abby or Ellie?

 

[Belthazar]

Imagine looking like this and have this 3d representation:

I know I shouldn't expect better from someone that "don't care" but takes the time to call people names.

Are you offended by some post in particular? There is a button for that, you know?

That's the exact same face from a different angle, with a different expression and under different lighting.

And I never said I didn't care, I cared enough to post my opinion about this discussion and some of the people engaging in it.

 

[Goalus]

Imagine calling a woman that looks like this ugly:

Something is really wrong with her face.
I wouldn't call it ugly, it simply looks artificial. I can't put my finger on what exactly is wrong though.

 

[nikos]

Don't worry, Steam has us covered.

 

[EDMIX]

Uhh, no.

No problem with Selene or returnal, but you know why they picked a middle age woman.

Who decided what is beauty? Are some of you under this impression that its some objective thing or something?

So....consider someone is married to a middle aged woman and loves them. That to them might be the most beautiful woman on earth, the thing you are talking about is subjective folks.

So BBW chasers exist were they believe that is beauty

People who have a fetish for skinny pale women exist were they believe that is beauty

People can love middle aged women as they exist were they believe that is beauty

Have you not figured out that is subject to change and differs by person to person or????

immature strawman argument.

I actually disagree. I'd argue what they are saying is the meat of this thread tbh.

You are fucking asking for something based on WHAT YOU FUCKING LIKE, that doesn't make sense as that is a subjective idea.

I mean females that actually look like women

The fucking women used in the games you dislike are still modeled from real women sir. Are you now trying to fucking define women based on if you believe they are attractive or not? smh Yet you are stating the comments are immature?

make female characters as unrealistically ugly

? Ugly people exist in real life man, if you fucking disagree with how someone looks, them being in a game doesn't mean the developer can read your fucking mind and made the character that way to hurt you feelings, make your pp small or some secret agenda. You are just forcing what you think is pretty into some argument as if that is a objective, factual thing.


As in, I can make a thread saying the same stupid shit and then show these women that I find attractive

Read slowly and understand what the fuck is being stated...

"Somewhere in the 2010's western gaming in particular has gone out of their way to make female characters as unrealistically ugly as possible with no feminine qualities along with abrasive, toxic personalities. It seems as if western gaming developers hate women and femininity in general.

I'm really sick of the sexist attack against the female appearance and personality in modern gaming.

Will gaming ever celebrate feminine beauty, spirit, and women in general again?"

When will we get back to real beauty in gaming? look how sexy this is and why are developers afraid of beauty?

So sir, do you not see how cringe this shit is? Do you not see that the thing you are talking about is based on what you find attractive? Do you not understand that someone can find the women i posted attractive, chase after them, lust for them, date them? How many people like this have you not seen with husbands, lovers, children running around, I don't know what to tell you other then what the fuck you think is attractive is based on YOU. You are trying to force this on a developer as if they know what the fuck you like personally or something.

Your pp not being hard cause pixels is not a agenda sir, it just means you like certain things, the artist likes certain things, we all like different things. In order to dissuccess such things, you must be able to objectively quantify what the fuck you are talking about OUTSIDE OF "my pp be hard" that isn't a objective thing that anyone can prove or force upon another creator. It doesn't make sense and sounds more immature then the comments you responded to btw.

When will gaming cater to my fetish. That is what you are asking. Make your own game. I can't read your mind, I can't make any character in which 100% of people find attractive, cause no human on earth exist where 100% of people find them attractive. I thought that was fucking obvious enough, yet here we are lol

 

[Faithless83]

You are the one who gave those 2 traits and called them feminine. You said a female would have protective nature like Claire does and that is a feminine trait, right? Are you saying no males will have protective nature like that?

Lets make this very simple for discussion. Do yo think all the females in the real world have feminine traits, physical and character wise? Or that there can be no real life persons who are like Abby or Ellie?

I'm getting tired of you asking things, I'm replying to them and you kept changing the goalpost or what I said.

So like you said, stop dodging the questions and answer them.
I've been quite compassionate with your half assed replies and let things slide so far because I was having fun. Call that my feminine side, if you will, but I can assure you I'm a male.
That should be enough reply to what you asked.

So stay on topic of the thread or at least close to it.

That's the exact same face from a different angle, with a different expression and under different lighting.

And I never said I didn't care, I cared enough to post my opinion about this discussion and some of the people engaging in it.

You are smart enough to compare to the other shots you provided and see they are not the same. We all have good enough eyes, right?

 

[Gamer79]

 

[StateofMajora]

Who decided what is beauty? Are some of you under this impression that its some objective thing or something?

So....consider someone is married to a middle aged woman and loves them. That to them might be the most beautiful woman on earth, the thing you are talking about is subjective folks.

So BBW chasers exist were they believe that is beauty

People who have a fetish for skinny pale women exist were they believe that is beauty

People can love middle aged women as they exist were they believe that is beauty

Have you not figured out that is subject to change and differs by person to person or????


I actually disagree. I'd argue what they are saying is the meat of this thread tbh.

You are fucking asking for something based on WHAT YOU FUCKING LIKE, that doesn't make sense as that is a subjective idea.

The fucking women used in the games you dislike are still modeled from real women sir. Are you now trying to fucking define women based on if you believe they are attractive or not? smh Yet you are stating the comments are immature?



? Ugly people exist in real life man, if you fucking disagree with how someone looks, them being in a game doesn't mean the developer can read your fucking mind and made the character that way to hurt you feelings, make your pp small or some secret agenda. You are just forcing what you think is pretty into some argument as if that is a objective, factual thing.


As in, I can make a thread saying the same stupid shit and then show these women that I find attractive

Read slowly and understand what the fuck is being stated...

"Somewhere in the 2010's western gaming in particular has gone out of their way to make female characters as unrealistically ugly as possible with no feminine qualities along with abrasive, toxic personalities. It seems as if western gaming developers hate women and femininity in general.

I'm really sick of the sexist attack against the female appearance and personality in modern gaming.

Will gaming ever celebrate feminine beauty, spirit, and women in general again?"

When will we get back to real beauty in gaming? look how sexy this is and why are developers afraid of beauty?

So sir, do you not see how cringe this shit is? Do you not see that the thing you are talking about is based on what you find attractive? Do you not understand that someone can find the women i posted attractive, chase after them, lust for them, date them? How many people like this have you not seen with husbands, lovers, children running around, I don't know what to tell you other then what the fuck you think is attractive is based on YOU. You are trying to force this on a developer as if they know what the fuck you like personally or something.

Your pp not being hard cause pixels is not a agenda sir, it just means you like certain things, the artist likes certain things, we all like different things. In order to dissuccess such things, you must be able to objectively quantify what the fuck you are talking about OUTSIDE OF "my pp be hard" that isn't a objective thing that anyone can prove or force upon another creator. It doesn't make sense and sounds more immature then the comments you responded to btw.

When will gaming cater to my fetish. That is what you are asking. Make your own game. I can't read your mind, I can't make any character in which 100% of people find attractive, cause no human on earth exist where 100% of people find them attractive. I thought that was fucking obvious enough, yet here we are lol

Mate. Your craziest rant yet.

Come on now. There is an objective measurement to beauty ; symmetrical face, in shape (not fat) big waist / ass / chest.

That's not to say beauty isn't in the eye of the beholder and you don't need to be a 10 to be beautiful but a fat woman on the front of a magazine is just propaganda / enabling a sickness.

 

[Faithless83]

Who decided what is beauty? Are some of you under this impression that its some objective thing or something?

So....consider someone is married to a middle aged woman and loves them. That to them might be the most beautiful woman on earth, the thing you are talking about is subjective folks.

So BBW chasers exist were they believe that is beauty

People who have a fetish for skinny pale women exist were they believe that is beauty

People can love middle aged women as they exist were they believe that is beauty

Have you not figured out that is subject to change and differs by person to person or????


I actually disagree. I'd argue what they are saying is the meat of this thread tbh.

You are fucking asking for something based on WHAT YOU FUCKING LIKE, that doesn't make sense as that is a subjective idea.

The fucking women used in the games you dislike are still modeled from real women sir. Are you now trying to fucking define women based on if you believe they are attractive or not? smh Yet you are stating the comments are immature?



? Ugly people exist in real life man, if you fucking disagree with how someone looks, them being in a game doesn't mean the developer can read your fucking mind and made the character that way to hurt you feelings, make your pp small or some secret agenda. You are just forcing what you think is pretty into some argument as if that is a objective, factual thing.


As in, I can make a thread saying the same stupid shit and then show these women that I find attractive

Read slowly and understand what the fuck is being stated...

"Somewhere in the 2010's western gaming in particular has gone out of their way to make female characters as unrealistically ugly as possible with no feminine qualities along with abrasive, toxic personalities. It seems as if western gaming developers hate women and femininity in general.

I'm really sick of the sexist attack against the female appearance and personality in modern gaming.

Will gaming ever celebrate feminine beauty, spirit, and women in general again?"

When will we get back to real beauty in gaming? look how sexy this is and why are developers afraid of beauty?

So sir, do you not see how cringe this shit is? Do you not see that the thing you are talking about is based on what you find attractive? Do you not understand that someone can find the women i posted attractive, chase after them, lust for them, date them? How many people like this have you not seen with husbands, lovers, children running around, I don't know what to tell you other then what the fuck you think is attractive is based on YOU. You are trying to force this on a developer as if they know what the fuck you like personally or something.

Your pp not being hard cause pixels is not a agenda sir, it just means you like certain things, the artist likes certain things, we all like different things. In order to dissuccess such things, you must be able to objectively quantify what the fuck you are talking about OUTSIDE OF "my pp be hard" that isn't a objective thing that anyone can prove or force upon another creator. It doesn't make sense and sounds more immature then the comments you responded to btw.

When will gaming cater to my fetish. That is what you are asking. Make your own game. I can't read your mind, I can't make any character in which 100% of people find attractive, cause no human on earth exist where 100% of people find them attractive. I thought that was fucking obvious enough, yet here we are lol

One image would get the point across just fine, thanks.
Consider that the beauty standards didn't change for Japanese and Korean devs for example. Only for the US, because I for one don't find the women in Outer Worlds attractive nor the fattys you posted.
Thick girls have another definition where I live (in Brazil), what the US calls thick is actually obese at best.

 

[EDMIX]

Mate. Your craziest rant yet.

Come on now. There is an objective measurement to beauty ; symmetrical face, in shape (not fat) big waist / ass / chest.

That's not to say beauty isn't in the eye of the beholder and you don't need to be a 10 to be beautiful but a fat woman on the front of a magazine is just propaganda / enabling a sickness.

I greatly disagree.

What I'm saying is as logical as it comes.

People like different things. People find things attractive based on what they like personally and it differs from person to person. Thats like trying to fucking argue that liking a game is a "objective measurement" to force a narrative that a game is "Factually" good cause you are upset someone disagrees.

I'd argue that is a more crazy.

People like what they like and its subject to differ from person to person. ie subjective. So I'm sorry man, you are not going to force someone who likes skinny women to like BBWs, or BBWs to like skinny or people who like cougars to like younger women etc.

Your whole argument is "come on now".....

Something is fucking sad in such a community where people are now trying to force an argument on what someone personally visually likes. I'm not in your mind, you are not in mine, neither of us can tell each other what the fuck we visually, personally like, its easily the dumbest fucking concept I've ever read on this forum by far. Its reaching to a level of desperation I've never seen before on here. You are now legit trying to debate personal views each human has based on their own likings. This is where I need to just end that man, I'll debate many things on here were I can see it can be discussed, but you'll never find me telling you what you like with your own eyes or what you play and if you like it etc, you are the one that would tell me that, I can't then just say some weird desperate shit like "its an objective measurement" on a subjective fucking idea.

Faithless83 "I for one don't find the women in Outer Worlds attractive nor the fattys you posted." Good lol Thats the point I'm making btw. What I like, what you like, what others like will differ. That isn't a set concept where you can go to 1000 people and they all tell you 1 person they all like or something, you'll just get a whole bunch of different answers.

Also, all that argues is those countries don't have the same creative freedoms to even express those ideas. Men in Japan have a whole level of fetish and different likes from BBWs to school girl cosplay to older women, foreigners etc. I know this as I've seen it first hand, but I'd never use a fucking video game to judge such a thing, it means what the public might like, may not be 100% represented in the media and all that argues is that Japan and Korea are not having their own awakings yet in those areas.

They still have many, many people that like different looks, sizes, shapes etc as to why they even have so many men and women chasing after those types. What Japan shows publicly on what they like, is rarely what they actually really like as a whole lol We are talking about a society that deeply publicly conforms to many ideas, while having feelings of different ideas. I'd hardly use them as an example atm. All this shows is that the United States is more open about all the preferences that people find attractive.

"what the US calls thick is actually obese at best." lol I mean sure, but do you not see the point? It differs. I've seen that too and even agree with you, but clearly someone likes that shit, thus if they made a game, would they not make a character like that and they clearly find them attractive and you and I may not or something?

 

[ahtlas7]

Op really lit a

 

[Faithless83]

I greatly disagree.

What I'm saying is as logical as it comes.

People like different things. People find things attractive based on what they like personally and it differs from person to person. Thats like trying to fucking argue that liking a game is a "objective measurement" to force a narrative that a game is "Factually" good cause you are upset someone disagrees.

I'd argue that is a more crazy.

People like what they like and its subject to differ from person to person. ie subjective. So I'm sorry man, you are not going to force someone who likes skinny women to like BBWs, or BBWs to like skinny or people who like cougars to like younger women etc.

Your whole argument is "come on now".....

Something is fucking sad in such a community where people are not trying to force an argument on what someone personally visually likes. I'm not in your mind, you are not in mine, neither of us can tell each other what the fuck we visually, personally like, its easily the dumbest fucking concept I've ever read on this forum by far. Its reaching to a level of desperation I've never seen before on here. You are now legit trying to debate personal views each human has based on their own likings. This is where I need to just end that man, I'll debate many things on here were I can see it can be discussed, but you'll never find me telling you what you like with your own eyes or what you play and if you like it etc, you are the one that would tell me that, I can't then just say some weird desperate shit like "its an objective measurement" on a subjective fucking idea.

You are confusing beauty with what's your preffered type.
This girl "Gentle Cerny reminder for you to stay hydrated while discussing non trivial arguments online moment" is beautiful, not my type though:

Spoiler: NSFW

Some could ask "How the freezing hell this is not your type?" I can say that I like more goth/nerdy girls (as I truly am attractive to intelligence).

Spoiler: NSFW

Most people would agree that both are good looking woman, but people will for sure have preferences.

What we are discussing here is beauty in general.
Like a good game, you can argue that Tetris is not your type of game, but pretty much everyone will tell you that it is a great puzzle game.

 

[EDMIX]

You are confusing beauty with what's your preffered type.

One in the same.

What someone finds beautiful will be their preferred type sir...

That isn't an objective idea where I can tell you what you like and you can tell me what I like. That isn't how any of this shit works.

Definition of BEAUTY

the quality or group of qualities in a person or thing that gives pleasure to the senses or the mind : loveliness; often, specifically : the quality of being physically attractive —often used before another noun; a person (especially a woman) who is beautiful… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Belthazar]

Something is really wrong with her face.
I wouldn't call it ugly, it simply looks artificial. I can't put my finger on what exactly is wrong though.

It's a 3d model, of course it's artificial.

I'm getting tired of you asking things, I'm replying to them and you kept changing the goalpost or what I said.

So like you said, stop dodging the questions and answer them.
I've been quite compassionate with your half assed replies and let things slide so far because I was having fun. Call that my feminine side, if you will, but I can assure you I'm a male.
That should be enough reply to what you asked.

So stay on topic of the thread or at least close to it.

You are smart enough to compare to the other shots you provided and see they are not the same. We all have good enough eyes, right?

This is Aloy on forbidden west, courtesy of the developers:

The "2021" picture on your image is merely an unflattering angle. Aloy is a gorgeous character modeled after a gorgeous woman.

 

[KXVXII9X]

And with male attributes, not feminine in any way...
Just a woman avatar for a male protagonist.

I think too much anime influence is making some people think every woman's face should be angular like a triangle. There are many different facial shapes. Yes, women have fat on their face and some women are muscular and flat chested. People are so used to stylistic depictions of women in video games, they think it is reality. We have more "conventionally attractive" women in gaming like Elena and Chloe from Uncharted, Freya from God of War, Rosario Dawson in dying Light 2, Tifa and Aerith from FF7, the protagonist from Forespoken, North from Detroit Become Human, Amicia from A Plague Tale, Senua from Senua's Sacrifice, Cortana from Halo Infinite, and everyone's favorite Lady Demetrescu.

 

[Vaelka]

Where are all these supposed pot bellied women leads in games? And no bald men? Bruh, were you just asleep during the whole PS3/360 gen?

Hell, see RE 3 Remake for making the anti-woke conspiracy nuts look crazy. Jill's look was revealed and the anti-woke bitches lost their minds. A supposed ugly redesign* and a tank top with pants. OH NOES! The wokies have invaded Resident Evil! Oh, except you could get her tube top costume…..and there was a certain tentacle scene…..yeah. Now did the crowd who freaked the fuck out take the L like a champ and admit their mistake? LOL, no, of course not, the more unhinged ones just doubled down on their insistence that the new Jill was hideous and the rest quietly went on with their business hoping no one would notice their fuck up.

Guess what, shitlords, we DID notice.

*again, certain sites of culture disproved this bullshit. Numbers don't lie.

I really don't give a shit about these '' woke arguments ''.
But I think you'd have to be pretty damn dishonest to pretend like people don't lose their minds and go after devs very hard for having sexualized content in their games or even just conventionally attractive women.
And what makes it worse imo than just a bunch of randos on Twitter is that it includes industry people too acting like bullies and self-appointed morality police.
I care more about that than some Youtuber trying to rile people up about Jill or whatever.

The people you're talking about exist but just because they exist doesn't mean that people don't have a point that there is a problem with people being uptight in the industry about it.
I mean sure there were people losing their minds about Tifa like the ones you're talking about too, but there were also people having a mental breakdown because she had large breasts and I even saw people call her a prostitute for wearing a skirt.
I don't find these two extremes to be all that interesting to look at tbh, when either side of the extreme is what you focus on then you just end up derailing the entire thing and I think people end up picking a side with either of the extreme instead of being a bit honest and using some common sense and your own eyes.

It's the same with a lot of the drama going on about Hollywood and streaming sites and their choice of casting and what actors say and changes in the scripts etc.
The whole arguments about '' woke '' and hyperfocusing on that in one direction or the other just turns it into a gigantic shitfest where people are screeching at each other and where two sides of the extreme point fingers like in the spiderman meme.
I think most reasonable people do feel and rightfully so that there is a problem and that there's a lot of hypocrisy and bullshit happening.

I think too much anime influence is making some people think every woman's face should be angular like a triangle. There are many different facial shapes. Yes, women have fat on their face and some women are muscular and flat chested. People are so used to stylistic depictions of women in video games, they think it is reality. We have more "conventionally attractive" women in gaming like Elena and Chloe from Uncharted, Freya from God of War, Rosario Dawson in dying Light 2, Tifa and Aerith from FF7, the protagonist from Forespoken, North from Detroit Become Human, Amicia from A Plague Tale, Senua from Senua's Sacrifice, Cortana from Halo Infinite, and everyone's favorite Lady Demetrescu.

I do think people get a bit ridiculous about it when they call skarlet in MK11 ugly for example.
She's clearly not.
However I do think it's valid to say that when it comes to body types and attire in particular it's pretty clear that there is a severe lack of variety and a fear of '' showing off '' in the West.
Basically every female character ever in Western games have the identical body type and dress modestly.

It's not only about large breasts and hourglass figures or whatever either, I actually have a problem with Aloy being used as some kind of a symbol but then she's just another skinny woman too.
I actually think she would've been more interesting in design if she was more muscular.
But I also don't think that every fucking female character in existence in the West needs to be Aloy or whatever.
I'd like to see more Sindel from MK11 for example and Bayonettas and Lady Demetrescu and other body types too.

Not every damn game in the West needs to be a nun simulator.
And I'd also say this for male characters too.
I think there is a problem with devs instead of adding sexy guys who show off etc they just erased it with female characters instead...
I'd rather just see more hot guys and keep hot women, actual variety and equality instead of just homogenizing everything into death.

 

[Faithless83]

One in the same.

What someone finds beautiful will be their preferred type sir...

That isn't an objective idea where I can tell you what you like and you can tell me what I like. That isn't how any of this shit works.

Definition of BEAUTY

the quality or group of qualities in a person or thing that gives pleasure to the senses or the mind : loveliness; often, specifically : the quality of being physically attractive —often used before another noun; a person (especially a woman) who is beautiful… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

They are not the same, you're mixing it up. I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't like, what I'm saying is that there is a common sense of what is beautiful and what isn't.
I even used games as an example of what is your type of game and what is a good game. The good game is still a good game, like it or not, it doesn't change the quality of it.

Beauty on the case we are discussing is the same thing.

It's a 3d model, of course it's artificial.


This is Aloy on forbidden west, courtesy of the developers:

The "2021" picture on your image is merely an unflattering angle. Aloy is a gorgeous character modeled after a gorgeous woman.

They still touched it after the backlash from the gameplay trailer. Just compare the trailer with what you have now.
Anyways, cherry picking much on the bloated face of poor Aloy, what about the other abundant examples presented in the thread so far?

I think too much anime influence is making some people think every woman's face should be angular like a triangle. There are many different facial shapes. Yes, women have fat on their face and some women are muscular and flat chested. People are so used to stylistic depictions of women in video games, they think it is reality. We have more "conventionally attractive" women in gaming like Elena and Chloe from Uncharted, Freya from God of War, Rosario Dawson in dying Light 2, Tifa and Aerith from FF7, the protagonist from Forespoken, North from Detroit Become Human, Amicia from A Plague Tale, Senua from Senua's Sacrifice, Cortana from Halo Infinite, and everyone's favorite Lady Demetrescu.

Even if the face shape may differ the lines are more soft on women. Out of the examples you've provided clash the west and japanese devs. You will understand that even when going for realistic models (Like Freya vs Lady Demetrescu) there is a difference. I don't think women in the US all have squared jaw lines for starters. Yet it's a plague running on female characters lately.

The problem here is how this is affecting the west developers more. We all know why this is happening and the agenda they are pushing.

 

[Dragon_Rocks]

I'm getting tired of you asking things, I'm replying to them and you kept changing the goalpost or what I said.

So like you said, stop dodging the questions and answer them.
I've been quite compassionate with your half assed replies and let things slide so far because I was having fun. Call that my feminine side, if you will, but I can assure you I'm a male.
That should be enough reply to what you asked.

You went from enjoying this to getting tired pretty fast. You are the one deviating and moving goal posts. You named some of the traits you think are feminine traits. When pointed out that TLoU2 characters have some of those traits you dismissed it by saying but their other "masculine" traits are overshadowing so they are not feminine and that replacing them with males would have 99% no impact. Then you named few other traits and the dodged the question about whether a male (Leon or Chris) would not have similar protective nature as well involving a child. So in your opinion, females should have some or all of the traits you think which makes them feminine but none of the ones you think are masculine like aggression, rage, strength, muscles etc. etc. Lets talk about changing Ellie and Abby to males and looking at what impact the story has. Would you change Dina to a male character as well or keep her female? If she stays female then would male Ellie still be okay with her having other dude's baby and stick with her while the other dude is around as well? If Dina was also made a male then there would be no pregnancy and male Abby would have killed male Dina followed by male Ellie. So simply changing the gender of the characters would have major impact on the story. Don't oversimplify things without giving it some thought.

So back to the simple question. You can ignore everything else and just answer this. Do yo think all the females in the real world have feminine traits, physical and character wise? Or that there can be no real life persons who are like Abby or Ellie?

 

[Stooky]

She is juicing hella much to reach this kind of body, even bikini/fitness competitors do use performance enhancing drugs on higher lvl and what Abby presents with her musculature/strenght is way above that, she is roughly at strongwoman lvls

first of all its a video game secondly go watch the women olympians and tell me who's juicin.

 

[EDMIX]

They are not the same, you're mixing it up

What you find beautiful is based on what you personally like.

To even waste the fucking energy to say otherwise is sad and desperate at this point. I can't tell you what you fucking like anymore then you can tell me. You need to fucking deal with that and get over it. You can't force someone to like what you like and then argue its some fact and that what they personally like isn't part of how they view that term or something dumb like that, it sounds so fake and desperate its more sad then funny.. if you can't understand that people like different things, there is no point to really discussing anything with you, you simply can't understand people find different things pretty, beautiful, attractive etc.

Added to good ole ignore.

 

[Faithless83]

You went from enjoying this to getting tired pretty fast. You are the one deviating and moving goal posts. You named some of the traits you think are feminine traits. When pointed out that TLoU2 characters have some of those traits you dismissed it by saying but their other "masculine" traits are overshadowing so they are not feminine and that replacing them with males would have 99% no impact. Then you named few other traits and the dodged the question about whether a male (Leon or Chris) would not have similar protective nature as well involving a child. So in your opinion, females should have some or all of the traits you think which makes them feminine but none of the ones you think are masculine like aggression, rage, strength, muscles etc. etc. Lets talk about changing Ellie and Abby to males and looking at what impact the story has. Would you change Dina to a male character as well or keep her female? If she stays female then would male Ellie still be okay with her having other dude's baby and stick with her while the other dude is around as well? If Dina was also made a male then there would be no pregnancy and male Abby would have killed male Dina followed by male Ellie. So simply changing the gender of the characters would have major impact on the story. Don't oversimplify things without giving it some thought.

So back to the simple question. You can ignore everything else and just answer this. Do yo think all the females in the real world have feminine traits, physical and character wise? Or that there can be no real life persons who are like Abby or Ellie?

I answered all your questions so far and you answered none of mine, it wasn't fast, I just didn't warn you, plus I'm working for 16hrs straight now.
If you paid enough attention to what I replied you would find the answer to what you asked twice already there. I know, nuanced answers can be tricky. I'll translate for you with a quote, because I knew back then you would reach the point we are now:

People are different, but I can tell from a mile how this "over correcting", is not making women equal to men, but turning women into men.

You changed the goal posts and then asked me to drop everything, while demanding that I stayed on your topic.
I could almost hear your voice on the last post and it wasn't a masculine one.

 

[Vaelka]

These threads are nonsense.
Last few games I played features plenty good looking women

Note how they all have the same body type and dress modestly.
Where is the variety here exactly?
Tbh their faces look very similar even.

Cyberpunk 2077 was made by a Polish studio too I think they're less bogged down by this, but even then I'd still say that in Cyberpunk there is a lack of variety and it's mostly just 99% skinny women with very tame curves.
The gear even just defaults your characters body back to the middle option when you put clothes on too.

Imo tho I think people get a bit too hung up on whether characters are ugly or not.
I don't think that the average female character in Western games are ugly I think that's being hyperbolic.
I just think they have a severe lack of variety and all feel like they're design with the same checklist.

You don't see characters like Lady Demetrescu from Western studios.
I am not saying Japanese devs are perfect about this but the female characters they create are significantly more varied and imo exciting and memorable in terms of design.
Even just Capcom alone blows basically the entireity of Western AAA game dev out of the water.
It's kinda funny too because while the female characters in Street Fighter aren't as varied as the guys, they still do have a fair bit of variety and one thing they have in common is that they're actually quite muscular.

Western devs pat themselves on the back for cutting womens breasts off and covering them from neck down, meanwhile Capcom just casually released a game full to the brim of women who have the bodies of bodybuilders and didn't make it a huge deal.

 

[Azurro]

So basically what you are saying is that women should sit at home, take care of kids and cook for their husband. Thats the way things were so it should not change.
....

This is not what I am saying, and it shows how I am talking to a person with the intellectual capability of a child. Please come back once you are done with your women studies' classes and you got back in touch with reality.

 

[Faithless83]

What you find beautiful is based on what you personally like.

To even waste the fucking energy to say otherwise is sad and desperate at this point. I can't tell you what you fucking like anymore then you can tell me. You need to fucking deal with that and get over it. You can't force someone to like what you like and then argue its some fact and that what they personally like isn't part of how they view that term or something dumb like that, it sounds so fake and desperate its more sad then funny.. if you can't understand that people like different things, there is no point to really discussing anything with you, you simply can't understand people find different things pretty, beautiful, attractive etc.

Added to good ole ignore.

A lot of F words there, easy dude.
Preference is not a measure of quality. The end.

A person not liking tetris doesn't make it a bad game. It's not a hard concept to understand.

 

[EDMIX]

Note how they all have the same body type and dress modestly.
Where is the variety here exactly?
Tbh their faces look very similar even.

Cyberpunk 2077 was made by a Polish studio too I think they're less bogged down by this, but even then I'd still say that in Cyberpunk there is a lack of variety and it's mostly just 99% skinny women with very tame curves.
The gear even just defaults your characters body back to the middle option when you put clothes on too.

Imo tho I think people get a bit too hung up on whether characters are ugly or not.
I don't think that the average female character in Western games are ugly I think that's being hyperbolic.
I just think they have a severe lack of variety and all feel like they're design with the same checklist.

You don't see characters like Lady Demetrescu from Western studios.
I am not saying Japanese devs are perfect about this but the female characters they create are significantly more varied and imo exciting and memorable in terms of design.
Even just Capcom alone blows basically the entireity of Western AAA game dev out of the water.
It's kinda funny too because while the female characters in Street Fighter aren't as varied as the guys, they still do have a fair bit of variety and one thing they have in common is that they're actually quite muscular.

Western devs pat themselves on the back for cutting womens breasts off and covering them from neck down, meanwhile Capcom just casually released a game full to the brim of women who have the bodies of bodybuilders and didn't make it a huge deal.

damn thats crazy, its almost as if what they like and what you like is different or something? wooooow

 

[Belthazar]

They still touched it after the backlash from the gameplay trailer. Just compare the trailer with what you have now.
Anyways, cherry picking much on the bloated face of poor Aloy, what about the other abundant examples presented in the thread so far?

I never mentioned any of the other examples presented in the thread just Aloy, a beautiful women that singlehandedly counteracts the whole premise of the thread.

But if you're willing to bring any other examples to my attention... be my guest. But I imagine they'll probably be beautiful women that just happen to not look like a Dead or Alive character or something... which seems to be unacceptable, unrealistic and not feminine enough for you.

 

[Azurro]

….there are some women soildersthat would murder you with their hands. They are trained. In a survival senerio, women with a gun. You with out one. You have something she needs. What do think will happen. Another example a combat mma trained women vs you a gamer. What would happen?

There are soldier women, sure. However, men soldiers would also demolish these women, because there are simple biologically differences that can't be overcome, assuming you compare them against a man that also goes through equivalent training. I believe your fight is against reality, not my arguments.

EDIT:

EDMIX that's terrorism, at least hide that behind a spoiler, my god.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Where are all these supposed pot bellied women leads in games? And no bald men? Bruh, were you just asleep during the whole PS3/360 gen?

Hell, see RE 3 Remake for making the anti-woke conspiracy nuts look crazy. Jill's look was revealed and the anti-woke bitches lost their minds. A supposed ugly redesign* and a tank top with pants. OH NOES! The wokies have invaded Resident Evil! Oh, except you could get her tube top costume…..and there was a certain tentacle scene…..yeah. Now did the crowd who freaked the fuck out take the L like a champ and admit their mistake? LOL, no, of course not, the more unhinged ones just doubled down on their insistence that the new Jill was hideous and the rest quietly went on with their business hoping no one would notice their fuck up.

Guess what, shitlords, we DID notice.

*again, certain sites of culture disproved this bullshit. Numbers don't lie.

I actually think Jill was really attractive in RE3: Remake but it's a Japanese game so it's expected. The think the primary issue people had with Jill's costume change was she lost her iconic look and fell into the boring tank top and jeans trap that plagues so many Western designs. Even the paid DLC costume was suspiciously changed from the original, so that should say something. I truly don't think Capcom did this because they wanted to, but not to offend anyone.

 

[Dragon_Rocks]

I answered all your questions so far and you answered none of mine, it wasn't fast, I just didn't warn you, plus I'm working for 16hrs straight now.
If you paid enough attention to what I replied you would find the answer to what you asked twice already there. I know, nuanced answers can be tricky. I'll translate for you with a quote, because I knew back then you would reach the point we are now:

You changed the goal posts and then asked me to drop everything, while demanding that I stayed on your topic.
I could almost hear your voice on the last post and it wasn't a masculine one.

Just answer this in a clear cut way. Do yo think all the females in the real world have feminine traits, physical and character wise? Or that there can be no real life persons who are like Abby or Ellie?

This is not what I am saying, and it shows how I am talking to a person with the intellectual capability of a child. Please come back once you are done with your women studies' classes and you got back in touch with reality.

You said "Women have always behaved differently than men and had different roles in society than men due to the inherent biological differences." Like what roles are you talking about here? Care to elaborate?

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I think too much anime influence is making some people think every woman's face should be angular like a triangle. There are many different facial shapes. Yes, women have fat on their face and some women are muscular and flat chested. People are so used to stylistic depictions of women in video games, they think it is reality. We have more "conventionally attractive" women in gaming like Elena and Chloe from Uncharted, Freya from God of War, Rosario Dawson in dying Light 2, Tifa and Aerith from FF7, the protagonist from Forespoken, North from Detroit Become Human, Amicia from A Plague Tale, Senua from Senua's Sacrifice, Cortana from Halo Infinite, and everyone's favorite Lady Demetrescu.

You see, when I said about feminine attributes, I wasn't only talking about physical ones. If you take Elena, Tifa or Aerith you will see that they have a feminine persona, they are strong female leads, but they also have a softness to them. Most protagonists today are very masculine, to me, a good example of a balanced female lead is Ellie from Last of Us, she is one of the most fierce, dangerous and powerful characters I've ever seen in a game, but she is still a girl, If a 6-foot guy grabs her, she struggles, she's fragile, she is just a petite girl, but what she has is killing skills, she is ruthless and still way more feminine than Kassandra.

 

[FunkMiller]

The following two statements are true:

1. In the current video games culture, there is bone-headed desire to remove sexually attractive qualities from many female characters, for fear of offending a small minority of people who really need to get out more.

2. In the current video games culture, there are a lot of sexually frustrated young men who will bitch and moan about these things to an absurd degree... but are a small minority who really need to get out more.

There are still plenty of hot women in video games, movies and TV.

 

[Chechack]

There is nothing wrong with Aloy

Looks like Zac Efron tho....

 

[Faithless83]

I never mentioned any of the other examples presented in the thread just Aloy, a beautiful women that singlehandedly counteracts the whole premise of the thread.

But if you're willing to bring any other examples to my attention... be my guest. But I imagine they'll probably be beautiful women that just happen to not look like a Dead or Alive character or something... which seems to be unacceptable, unrealistic and not feminine enough for you.

So we have another demanding person here who doesn't have the time to look for posted images.

Sorry I'm about to finish dealing with one already. but you can start here and go from there, if it's not too much to ask of you.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/will-gaming-ever-celebrate-feminine-beauty-again.1631894/post-265760990

But since "you cared enough to post" you likely care enough to read what was posted.

Just answer this in a clear cut way. Do yo think all the females in the real world have feminine traits, physical and character wise? Or that there can be no real life persons who are like Abby or Ellie?

Use logic, what do you think? That there aren't masculine women in the world? Or even better that there aren't passive and empathic men?
If you at least tried to stay on topic you would noticed that the complain here is what the west is doing to female characters. Not that there are no female with masculine traits and my quote summed up perfectly.
"People are different, but I can tell from a mile how this "over correcting", is not making women equal to men, but turning women into men."
And this is what put us here in the first place. The women in the west trying as hard as they can to be men. To the point of demonizing female traits and even their breast sizes.
And this applies not just to games and entertainment in the US, but to society itself.

On the other hand we have onlyfans, but that's a whole can of worms that would make this derail even more.

Will you start answering things now? I guess not, but thanks for making my job more bearable.

You said "Women have always behaved differently than men and had different roles in society than men due to the inherent biological differences." Like what roles are you talking about here? Care to elaborate?

Nurturance, sensitivity, sweetness, supportiveness, gentleness, warmth, passivity, cooperativeness, expressiveness, modesty, humility, empathy, affection, tenderness, and being emotional, kind, helpful, devoted, and understanding. All considered women traits.
From there you can use your brain a bit and imagine the professions that would work best with these.
Hint, not a lot of them involve handling things, most of them involve handling people.

 

[purvispisgah]

first of all its a video game secondly go watch the women olympians and tell me who's juicin.

And now this person is implying that female Olympians don't use performance enhancing drugs.

This person literally has no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Belthazar]

So we have another demanding person here who doesn't have the time to look for posted images.

Sorry I'm about to finish dealing with one already. but you can start here and go from there, if it's not too much to ask of you.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/will-gaming-ever-celebrate-feminine-beauty-again.1631894/post-265760990

But since "you cared enough to post" you likely care enough to read what was posted.

In that post you use ada as an example of feminine beauty, due to being slim, having a triangle shaped face and not having a feminazi haircut (she has a medium hairstyle known as a bob)

And then you give the below image as an example of women that don't fit that standard:

But looking at it closely the third woman at the top is a slim woman, with a triangle shaped face and an afro bob (same haircut as Ada, just with different hair texture and color)... Gee, I wonder what you think is wrong with her that makes her not fit into your beauty standards.

 

[jaysius]

Shouldn't the same philosophy apply to all entertainment? Why would people need to see good looking people in good movies, but games don't matter? Yeah, the game characters are fictional, but the chances an average person will get with those celebrities are slim to none as well. Why is wanting pretty, feminine ladies for movies fine and not for games especially when you have to look at and listen to the characters for way longer than any movie?

I dunno it's personal preference, if the person is fugly I find it harder to relate to them or care about their struggles. Like that hand maids tale girl, I'm like "Meh whatever".

Does that make me awful? Meh, I'm more honest than most people.


Source:

Checking your browser - reCAPTCHA

In the absence of behavioral effects in compassion ratings, we observed stronger activation in empathic brain structures (ACC; AI) for less attractive men and for attractive women than for attractive men.

TL;CU(Too long; Can't Understand) Ugly dudes get pity, attractive girls get pity.

So yea, it's just my honesty factor.

This is why we have loser movies with dudes that are fugly that fill seats, where if you have a girl that's ugly than good luck!

 

[purvispisgah]

What you find beautiful is based on what you personally like.

To even waste the fucking energy to say otherwise is sad and desperate at this point. I can't tell you what you fucking like anymore then you can tell me. You need to fucking deal with that and get over it. You can't force someone to like what you like and then argue its some fact and that what they personally like isn't part of how they view that term or something dumb like that, it sounds so fake and desperate its more sad then funny.. if you can't understand that people like different things, there is no point to really discussing anything with you, you simply can't understand people find different things pretty, beautiful, attractive etc.

Added to good ole ignore.

The physical characteristics that human males find attractive in human females are evolved and consistent across cultures and time:

-Visible and firm secondary sex characteristics
-symmetrical, softer faces, especially around the jaw
-long hair
-waist-to-hip ratio of roughly 0.7
-generally youthful, unblemished skin

None of this means that there aren't men attracted to women that don't have all or even any of these characteristics, and it doesn't mean a woman's only worth is measured by her physical conformance to this list.

But this is what human males prefer on average.

 

[EDMIX]

There are soldier women, sure. Howev

nah, no however, just leave it at such soldiers exist. Look at it like this, in a video game that is fake, someone is just saying that soldier that is a woman that is better then the rest is just a game about THAT person, not about all women in general.

because there are simple biologically differences that can't be overcome

I don't disagree with this at all, its a solid point btw, simply that I don't think many developers are making a game to claim otherwise, they might just be saying that 1 person in the game is better then the rest or something. I think people many times take that too far and make it seem as if the character needs to be like this or that based on "biology" when not many games to my knowledge are making such claims about the whole gender or something.

So I do agree with you, simply that I don't think many who are creating those characters are claiming that it can be overcome or something. Its like those games with soldiers that are better then the rest and are choking people out and fighting 100 dudes, its not saying ALL MEN can do this, its saying that 1 person is really different and for the trope of the hero or something they are better then others or something. Even in the most extreme examples, even in games like The Last Of Us 2, is Abby not beating the shit out of other women? In Metal Gear Solid, is Snake not beating the shit out of other men? It shows that the ability they are giving that character is more so based on what they want with hero vs what they are claiming about gender or something. I make characters like that all the time mind you, but I don't think I have 1 character were they are powerful cause I'm saying all men are or all women are and biology be damned lol

So maybe they are fantastical in their ability because of hero and main character trope or something and not some argument against biology or something. I agree with you on this Azurro, simply that I don't think many are making that point when they make heros (regardless of gender mind you). Keep in mind, that is the argument Sarkeesian made long ago, like in Uncharted Nate being the good guy, killing a bunch of people, she made it sound like it was some agenda to make this unrealistic thing to force an agenda for men being mocho and perfect.

She disregarded it was a video game, the aim might be to make a character be a hero, not to make the GENDER seem unbeatable and argue against logic and....well biology. So I get where you are coming from and agree with you, but in the world of fake games where its not a real thing, its more likely done to support a main character or cast vs force a idea that a race, gender or any human is more superior in real life

that's terrorism, at least hide that behind a spoiler, my god.

lol

I thought about it, but was like...nah, we are going for shock value here to prove that point lol

 

[Stooky]

And now this person is implying that female Olympians don't use performance enhancing drugs.

This person literally has no idea what they are talking about.

Ok Doc, which women olympians are using drugs besides the olympians that have been banned for using performance enhanced drugs?

 

[TGO]

Looks like Zac Efron tho....

 

[Stooky]

She is juicing hella much to reach this kind of body, even bikini/fitness competitors do use performance enhancing drugs on higher lvl and what Abby presents with her musculature/strenght is way above that, she is roughly at strongwoman lvls

So you are saying no women in the history of this earth can reach Abbys body without juicin?

 

[onQ123]

I shouldn't have posted Forspoken in this thread now they are delaying it to Uglify her

 

[Stooky]

There are soldier women, sure. However, men soldiers would also demolish these women, because there are simple biologically differences that can't be overcome, assuming you compare them against a man that also goes through equivalent training. I believe your fight is against reality, not my arguments.

EDIT:

EDMIX that's terrorism, at least hide that behind a spoiler, my god.

You have never been a fight knocked out before or broken bone. In a trained fight competition both people equally yoked. Man might win but he is not coming out unscathed. Trained punches hurt. Anybody can get knocked out.