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Will Germany ever live down Hitler?

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Jack Scofield

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I was watching the Colbert Report the other night (don't know if was an older episode or not), and there was a joke involving the US spying on Germany. Some representative called it "an unprecedented breach of trust between the two countries," to which Stephen responded with "really, unprecedented?" which was accompanied by a picture of Hitler.

Obviously, Germany now is totally different from Germany 70 years ago, but, fair or not, it almost seems like Germany will always be intrinsically connected with Hitler. Do you think this will always be the case?

NOTE: I am in no way saying that people should forget about the atrocities Hitler committed, so don't even try putting words into my mouth. I'm just wondering if Hitler/Germany jokes will always be in vogue. There's got to be a point when Germany is like, "dude, stop giving us shit for that guy. We're really sorry, but we have nothing to do with him."
 
Hitler is the purest picture of evil in modern society, so sadly they will be. Unless someone else comes along as bad as him.
 
America has lived down it's genocidal past. Winston Churchill killed millions of Indians. The Belgians killed tens of millions of Africans. We don't even hear much of the deaths in Russia or China these days outside of Teabagger sites.

So, basically, eventually.
 
It will go down as one of the greatest atrocities in human history even decades and centuries into the future. So in a way, no. But I think people will understand the country has moved on and is completely different now.

At least I would expect.
 
Pretty sick burn by Stephen Colbert, but I imagine it was said with humorous intent. Most real people do not blame modern day Germany or its people for WW II and the Holocaust. But no, I doubt people will ever really forget either.
 
In the grand scheme of things it's still relatively fresh in our minds...people are still alive from that era. I'd say in another 70 years Germany will have distanced itself a little more...

Time will only help Germany, but we should never forget the atrocities he caused so no one else ever tries to repeat them.
 
One of my German friends was called a "dirty Nazi" last week by some drunken idiot. So yeah, this shit will linger for a good while.
 
Bo said:
If Mongolia can live down the Khans, anyone can live down anything (and they do).
Click to expand...

Heh, they didn't just live down, it is the National Day of Pride, lol

http://www.rferl.org/content/mongolia-genghis-khan-birthday/24771860.html

7986E854-FD2B-4B3C-ACA8-F088C299B43E_w640_r1_s.jpg
 
There's still people alive today from when shit was going down. It will take time, but never forgotten.
 
No. World War II is one of the most pivotal events in world history and a lot of current issues today stem from it. Hitler is a historical figure that can be seen as the most extreme example of evil and is a much easier target than faceless countries who've done atrocious things. Because of the profound importance of World War II and how prominent a historical figure Hitler is and was, Germany will always in a sense be tied to him, I think.
 
I hope so. Today's Germans have nothing to do with WW2 and Hitler, and it's really unfair to blame someone for something they didn't do.
 
WWII is still fresh in the grand scheme of things.

There are people still alive who witnessed it happen after all.

It'll almost certainly be remembered as a historic event many hundreds or even thousands of years from now. Just like the Mongols, Romans, Egyptians... Etc.

Especially because it was so well documented due to technologies of the times (photos/film).


Edit: creepy how similar my post was to a few others.
 
This is gonna sound real dark, but once everyone is who is related to someone who was around during the second world war. That's when it will be "lived down."

Who associates France with Napoleon anymore? To paraphrase Hitler... (Can't believe I'm doing this D:) Who remembers Talat Pasha and the genocide of the Armenians?
 
Germany of the past used military might to take over countries.
today, they use banking might to take over other countries.

still badguys without guns but wearing suits and ties.
 
Bo said:
Yeah, that aspect of Mongolian culture always blows my mind. Have to celebrate what martial prowess you can, I guess. Germany shouldn't have any trouble celebrating less contentious times.
Click to expand...

If I had to hang out with either Khan or Hitler in order to live I would choose Khan
 
The first thing that comes to mind when I hear the word Germany is BMW. Though I'm from the US and Hitler was long gone by the time I was born, much more able to understand what was going on around me. I think I would have had to have lived during the time really connect Hitler to Germany. Although not as bad, 9/11 had a realer effect on me. I lived through that, remember exactly where I was when it happened.
 
Cameron122 said:
If I had to hang out with either Khan or Hitler in order to live I would choose Khan
Click to expand...
Hitler didn't spend most of his life with front row seats to his genocides, dragging his companions along with him. No such veneer of banality of evil with a Khan.
 
Bo said:
Yeah, that aspect of Mongolian culture always blows my mind. Have to celebrate what martial prowess you can, I guess. Germany shouldn't have any trouble celebrating less contentious times.
Click to expand...
Khan was a winner and Hitler a loser. It's not difficult.
Also, yes people will forget Hitler. They'll forget important lessons learned as the memory and immediateness of the war dims and history can very well repeat itself.
As a side note I've found it kind of funny that Hitler was basically a weaboo for Germany since he was Austrian.
 
Jack Scofield said:
There's got to be a point when Germany is like, "dude, stop giving us shit for that guy. We're really sorry, but we have nothing to do with him."
Click to expand...

I wonder if it would raise some eyebrows if Germany did reach a point where Hitler and other Nazi references became unbanned in video games and etc.

Anyway I think it's ingrained in culture especially Western culture. Unlike other instances of nations committing atrocities, the world made Nazi leaders and the organization pay whereas Japan was allowed to keep more of their chain of command intact after WW2. The USA still has military bases in both countries for what it's worth. In any case I think neo Nazis will keep surfacing

the_log_ride said:
I don't know, but will Korea & Japan ever get along?
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Japan has issues with all Asian countries in the region with their stances on "comfort women", other past atrocities, Fukushima, growing military, territorial/air space disputes, and making dumb remarks like comparing their own political tactics to Nazis: "doing it quietly, just as in one day the Weimar constitution changed to the Nazi constitution, without anyone realizing it, why don't we learn from that sort of tactic?" -Deputy Prime Minister of Japan.

Prime Minister Abe also seems to be stuck in the glory days of Imperial Japan with his politically incorrect international quotes too. However I think there will be more productive attitudes once the older generations move on
 
Hitler and the nazis were so bad that people forget that Germany was also the "bad guys" 25 years earlier in the first world war.
 
Pizarro said:
Khan was a winner and Hitler a loser. It's not difficult.
Also, yes people will forget Hitler. They'll forget important lessons learned as the memory and immediateness of the war dims and history can very well repeat itself.
As a side note I've found it kind of funny that Hitler was basically a weaboo for Germany since he was Austrian.
Click to expand...
Except losing has never really stopped us from celebrating pivotal figures in history. Hitler is no Pyrrhus of Epirus, less so even Imperial Germany in the first World War, yet he still has something of a (deranged) following. What I was pointing out is that Germany's military history is extensive and well-documented, there's no shortage of non-contentious war heroes that can be venerated at any given whim. Hitler is a weird blip in that timeline, as opposed to the apex.
 
You need at least a century of two, to live down a genocide. Pretty much enough time for anyone involved in one way or form to be dead.
 
Motherfucker started a World War (alot of things did but he was the face of it)

Its going to take awhile OP

Edit: ill agree thowith the post after me that its not a complete connection to modern Germany
 
Zuhzuhzombie!! said:
America has lived down it's genocidal past. Winston Churchill killed millions of Indians. The Belgians killed tens of millions of Africans. We don't even hear much of the deaths in Russia or China these days outside of Teabagger sites.

So, basically, eventually.
Click to expand...

Killed millions of Indians? The Japanese were basically at their doorstep.
 
I dont think anyone holds the German people accountable anymore. The ire is directed specifically at Hitler and his Nazi regime.
 
Jack Scofield said:
... fair or not, it almost seems like Germany will always be intrinsically connected with Hitler. Do you think this will always be the case?
Click to expand...

Depends how literally you mean always, but in a manner of speaking yes. However, there is nothing intrinsically bad about this - Germany and German culture is forever linked with Hitler, but this is equally true of dozens of very significant people, from Hegel, Kant & Nietzsche to Bach, Beethoven & Brahms - just the tip of the iceberg. Let's throw in Einstein for good measure. You take the good with the bad like most everything else.

I don't think the general notion is in any way to associate "Germans" with Nazis anymore; but to immediately associate "Germany" with WWII and the Third Reich is just being aware of history, that's why the joke works.
 
Bo said:
Except losing has never really stopped us from celebrating pivotal figures in history. Hitler is no Pyrrhus of Epirus, less so even Imperial Germany in the first World War, yet he still has something of a (deranged) following. What I was pointing out is that Germany's military history is extensive and well-documented, there's no shortage of non-contentious war heroes that can be venerated at any given whim. Hitler is a weird blip in that timeline, as opposed to the apex.
Click to expand...

True, but unlike Genghis and Pyrrhus everyone was actively discouraged and forbidden from celebrating Hitler.
 
It wasn't just Hitler, he had the wide support of most of the population. As well, there were many instances when the German people did nothing as their neighbors were being butchered and carted off to the gas chambers. Sure, people were scared, but there's a dark cloud of passivity that hovered over that country that is hard for many to forget. I think it will take quite some time.
 
GusBus said:
It wasn't just Hitler, he had the wide support of most of the population. As well, there were many instances when the German people did nothing as their neighbors were being butchered and carted off to the gas chambers. Sure, people were scared, but there's a dark cloud of passivity that hovered over that country that is hard for many to forget. I think it will take quite some time.
Click to expand...

Sorry, supportive? You do realise how good the propaganda was back then? Nobody knew about the concentration camps until after the war ended. If you look at the effort Hitler went through to justify the war effort and stigmatizing of Jews then you'll probably believe them. Not to mention the devastating effect the Treaty of Versailles had.

There was no internet back then as I'm sure you're aware.
 
diamount said:
Sorry, supportive? You do realise how good the propaganda was back then? Nobody knew about the concentration camps until after the war ended. If you look at the effort Hitler went through to justify the war effort and stigmatizing of Jews then you'll probably believe them. Not to mention the devastating effect the Treaty of Versailles had.

There was no internet back then as I'm sure you're aware.
Click to expand...

There's so much wrong with this, I don't know where to begin. Crack a history book open.
 
I think a big reason that era of Germany so often arises in popular culture is because the United States is a global media manufacturer and that era was really about as good as it got for the mythos of the U.S. as saviors of the world.

Germany has already lived down Hitler. No one actually thinks of Germany in terms of Hitler anymore. When people bring up Hitler, they usually aren't doing it because they want to shame Germany, but rather because they want to glorify the U.S. and its defeat of what many people consider to be an embodiment of evil. WWII in many people's minds is as black-and-white war as there ever was. Most people think that there were clear good guys and clear bad guys, and the good guys won. That sort of simplistic narrative fits in well with the type of stories people crave. And the good guys just happened to be the guys who now produce the most popular shows, movies, media, etc.
 
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