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[Stephen Colbert]

On second thought, they do have Windows mobile 7 to leverage. It has Xbox Live and apps built in. Just add gaming controls to one of those phones and it will as much market penetration as the Xperia Play.

I do think a standalone gaming only handheld isn't viable for them though. They don't have the first party studios to deliver enough exclusive content to it to win gamers over, a system cant survive entirely off of ports from another solid system (the NGP) and they're too late to make up for this by getting a jump on the market.

I place of them even releasing an Xbox 720 at about 50/50. And if they do, I expect it to be somewhat of a failure unless they get a jump on Sony and release first or they somehow manage to snatch up another studio of the same caliber as Bungie.

 

[Prine]

Eh, i dont think they should. As a gamer i have zero interest in handheld, i think it'll be suicide too. Commit resources on expanding and nurturing the console sphere, no need for any more investment in handhelds unless its phones.

 

[rezuth]

 

[Zoc]

MS's strength with the 360 is its great relationships with (western) developers, great tools for (western) developers, and understanding of what (western, male, 18-35) gamers want.

Western developers tend to shun portable platforms, as does the demographic that made the 360 a success. Western developers dominate Apple's App Store, so there might be a significant number of ports for WP7, but if MS ever tried to make a serious stab at portable hardcore gaming they'd be doing it in a complete vacuum, building developers and a market from nothing.

 

[itsgreen]

they will not. they have windows phone. they have gone the way of the apple.

 

[coldvein]

they have windows phone..

does that not count as entering the handheld market?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Eh, i dont think they should. As a gamer i have zero interest in handheld

True, me too. Is less than zero possible?

 

[Oppo]

The only way there would be dedicated portable hardware was if it was some "variant" of a Windows Mobile 7 platform device (i.e. basically the WMP version of that Xperia phone). I can't see them doing dedicated hardware at this point. If Xbox 360 wasn't such a smoking crater in Japan, maybe, but now?

Thing is, as much as MS would like to be in Apple's position with smartphones, I don't think they would ever allow an ecosystem like Apple's App Store to materialzie the same way. They'd take one look at the pricing of those apps and say No Way (just my feeling). MS always seems to want to over-monetize everything with their gaming systems - the way they chip at the advertising, the pay-to-play, how the pricing seems just a bit too far into painful territory time and again. My point is, I think they'd look at the $1-3 dollar games on the App Store and say, what on earth are we going to do with that?

MS is more like Nintendo in this sense, in that I have to think they'd rather support fewer dev's at a $25-$25 price point rather than the maddening cacophany of the mobile stores, for a walled-garden closed thing like a game platform on your smart device. I know, they made Windows, which is the very definition of managing a maddening cacophany of devs, but I don't think they'd want to repeat that for phones and tablets. They want that Apple level of control.

So I think we will continue to see them take baby steps with their (languishing) mobile and touch platforms, and it will never be a dedicated single "thing" - no MS portable. Instead it'll be various weird hooks across Windows OS's with the words Xbox Live attached to them. They don't really have a strategy for this yet, they're waiting to see if the market is firmly shifting from DS/PSP direction to phones, or if it'll be a partial split.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Microsoft's eye has always been on control of services, with gaming as the way to leverage their way in.

A dedicated gaming handheld would gain them very little in that area. Their portable strategy is through WP7, just they've been very late in doing so.

 

[Shig]

There's no better time than right now. With Ninty and Sony's next portables costing upwards of $250, I could very much see MS pulling an upset if they swooped in with a sub-$200 competitor.

Every market-leading portable 'til now has come to market under $150, adding another hundred dollars plus is a very steep stratification. And the focus definitely seems to be on 'wow factor' over performance (battery life, etc.). I can't help but think that the market is trying to give us two Game Gears while ignoring the lessons that Game Boy taught.

 

[crazy monkey]

never say never. May be they enter indirectly may be directly . Definition of hand held gaming might change soon.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

Here's my guess: nada. Nokia and Microsoft are a good fit- they are both companies who built their fortunes on getting on their first (MS with affordable consumer computers, Nokia with affordable consumer mobiles), before getting overtook by competition that learned from them and simply bettered them. Money is all well and good, but they've both demonstrated in recent times, that they're a bit too behind-the-times for all this mobile stuff.

Actually the only thing Nokia was ever truly behind in was software. They pioneered many of the hardware innovations found in modern smartphones but always failed at making easy to use software.

And I think MS demonstrated with Windows mobile 7 that they actually did learn from their mistakes and from apples success, but are still lacking due to generic headsets.

The two are a perfect pair IMO.

 

[Acidote]

They will, through the Live service on the cellphone market. I don't see them releasing their own dedicated hardware.

 

[Celsior]

They will start using their phones as a gaming platform, but I can't see them just releasing just a gaming handheld.

 

[bananas]

Rumor has it that Microsoft is getting ready to drop the Zune branding, so the Zune HD2 might very well come out as an Xbox-branded device. This would make sense if it was directly competing against the iPod touch, which is marketed as a gaming device. Why not use your highly successful gaming brand on it?

 

[Mihku]

The only way there would be dedicated portable hardware was if it was some "variant" of a Windows Mobile 7 platform device (i.e. basically the WMP version of that Xperia phone). I can't see them doing dedicated hardware at this point. If Xbox 360 wasn't such a smoking crater in Japan, maybe, but now?

Well, they have such a device, it's just not running the WP7 OS yet. The Zune is the perfect device to spread the OS and the games at a much lower price point. The hardware itself is pretty great (just needs a spec bump). I really hope MS is planning something along these lines. Apple shows this strategy clearly works (iPhone + iPod), I'm sure MS can make it work as well. The deal with Nokia is a step in the right direction since they would like to make phones at a lower price point, but I doubt they can make something under $250 and still hit the hardware requisites.

Let's hope for a nice Mix11 surprise announcement.

 

[Night_Trekker]

I sure hope not.

.

 

[Krauser Kat]

Please no, they already fucked consoles with DLC and Achievements and stealing FPS away from the more viable PC. GFWL is also a failure. They won this round by being the first, and affordable.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

I have a WP7 phone and Xbox Live is pretty well integrated. The only thing that's holding it back at the moment is the lack of games. They're mostly iPhone ports but that's due to marketshare more than anything else.

 

[Leckan]

Windows Phone 7 is their "handheld" with Xbox Live support. If MS wanted to enter the handheld ring they would have done so long ago.

I think they look at the Iphone and Android rather than the NGP/PSP and DS/3DS.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Windows mobile 7 is exactly that I think.

 

[jhawk6]

I agree with the others who have said that basically the Windows Phone 7 is Microsoft's handheld for the foreseeable future anyway

 

[FoneBone]

There's no better time than right now. With Ninty and Sony's next portables costing upwards of $250, I could very much see MS pulling an upset if they swooped in with a sub-$200 competitor.

Good god, no. There's no worse time, regardless of what Nintendo and Sony are charging.

 

[Hammer24]

Windows mobile 7 is exactly that I think.

Exactly. They´re putting the money into Nokia instead of the R&D costs associated with bringing out dedicated hardware.

 

[Prine]

Please no, they already fucked consoles with DLC and Achievements and stealing FPS away from the more viable PC. GFWL is also a failure. They won this round by being the first, and affordable.

Butt hurtus maximus. How can any console move into is later years, perform better than it ever has based on simply being affordable?? The content on 360 (including Kinect) is mostly responsible for its continued growth and rise in popularity.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Nope, they learned a lot with the Zune going up against the Ipod. No way they would be able to gain market share from nintendo.

 

[Boney]

get a piece of the PS360 port pie,

ew

 

[itsgreen]

does that not count as entering the handheld market?

well aparently not, since that would make this thread pointless

 

[Cyborg]

Yes, at E3 2011 mark my words.

 

[megamerican]

Considering they would be last to market in a race against Nintendo, Sony, and pretty much everyone with a decent phone, I would hope not.

 

[Krakatoa]

They've already stated that Windows Phone 7 is their only portable gaming platform.

I agree windows 7 is a pretty good gaming platform and it even has live intergration.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

It's tough. Microsoft's gaming division would have to build completely new partnerships and I just don't think they want to be distracted with that. As the PSP has show, existing console devs just don't have spare capacity to create new timely games on a rapid schedule. And Japan is as much a mystery to MS now as it was back when they launched the original Xbox.

 

[rpmurphy]

If Sony had some struggle being successful in the Western market, MS entering the ring would be much more risky (since they can probably forget about having any significant impact in the Japanese market). They need a really good product vision.

 

[jagowar]

They already have. MS understands the market well enough to know that dedicated gaming handhelds are going to decline while mobile gaming blows up exponentially. Whether they are successful remains to be seen.

It's been said on this thread a few times but wp7 is their play.... now they might release a dedicated device like the ipod touch but they are taking the apple approach to mobile gaming

But they are mandating a higher price with the xbox games on the phone.... the cheapest one so far is $2.99 which might be the lowest price possible and the most expensive one so far has been $6.99 so they are going higher than ios but not as expensive as 3ds/ngp. But all xbox games on wp7 have a trial (like xbla) so that is probably part of the reason they can get away with not going $.99 impulse buys.

There are already some xbla/indie games directly ported to wp7 and most of the big name ios games have been ported over...... games are released 1 or 2 each week (exactly like xbla release dates).

 

[Father_Brain]

No, I don't think that there's room in the market for three dedicated gaming handhelds. Especially since any MS handheld would struggle to get Japanese support, and the idea of a handheld centered primarily around Western software is beyond laughable.

 

[Gunsmithx]

I just don't think they have anything to gain by entering the portable market at this time in terms of a dedicated handheld and I'm not even sure they could really put something together that would make you want their unit over an NGP.

I do think the fact they are pushing the cell phone space is a good way to go, I'd like to see them do something like playstation suite so you could do little apps for phones and then play some of them on your xbox since it already has Live integration.

 

[Philthy]

Microsoft has to win me back to the 360 first. It's been collecting dust since they're the only ones who want to charge for online these days. Not to mention XBL is just archaic and confuses the hell out of everyone.

 

[Ace Harding]

WP7 is their shot at something portable, but they're doing it wrong. I should want one (pieces of XBL + achievements!) but I don't.

The trouble they'd have with a true portable system is that the edge they can offer is something that's not going to ever get them crazy Nintendo handheld numbers. Microsoft could get people excited if they were able to do something like the NGP, but better:

- Twin sticks, core franchises, serious next-gen hardware
- XBL, achievements, and cloud access for cross-platform play
- Relative ease of development
- A well-designed online store with LOTS of diverse offerings
- A more open marketplace like Indie Games with games for a buck

I wouldn't even question a day 1 perch for a 360 handheld (same with NGP). But, as we'll see with NGP, that's never going to touch the DS or 3DS. People on these boards might get excited, but the masses aren't going to spend $400+ on one.

More casual gamers will buy a console - it just seems like less of a commitment, more mainstream. But buying a portable for at least the same price just takes it to another level. If I'm flying or on a train and dressed for work people look at me cross-eyed when I bust out my DS. There's a stigma there, where there isn't for something like the iPhone.

The way Nintendo gets its numbers beyond the core gamers is by marketing to kids and families. Microsoft just can't compete there yet.

So, while I'd be super excited about XBL and 360 games on the road, Microsoft is smart to sit this out. If somehow NGP sales go crazy and it looks like MSoft can compete, then maybe.

 

[Ace Harding]

No, I don't think that there's room in the market for three dedicated gaming handhelds. Especially since any MS handheld would struggle to get Japanese support, and the idea of a handheld centered primarily around Western software is beyond laughable.

 

[FoneBone]

^We're talking dedicated handhelds, and the point stands in that regard.

 

[Father_Brain]

Beaten, but I'm talking about a dedicated gaming handheld with software targeted and budgeted at $30-40 price points, not an all-purpose multimedia platform featuring $1-$5 games as a value-added feature. The iDevices prove absolutely nothing in that regard.

 

[[Nintex]]

I'm surprised they haven't done this earlier. My guess is that MS wants to take on Sony while they're still having a hard time in the console market. 'kick 'em while they're down!' so to speak.

 

[jagowar]

Beaten, but I'm talking about a dedicated gaming handheld with software targeted and budgeted at $30-40 price points, not an all-purpose multimedia platform featuring $1-$5 games as a value-added feature. The iDevices prove absolutely nothing in that regard.

That point doesn't matter as long as ios is successful (and it has been very successful). wp7 is trying to be the psp (2nd place) of that space and it's not a bad play. They do need to get an ipod touch type of device out though so you don't have to get a cell phone contract. They really need to get that device out there to have a chance in that space though

This goes back to the higher priced dedicated gaming vs cheaper mobile phone argument..... For better or worse ms chose the mobile phone side. They will not release a dedicated device anytime soon (the next decade atleast). The best you can hope for is an ipod touch like device (which I think we might see at e3 and branded as xbox portable but will be a wp7 w/o the phone).

They would be a third wheel in the dedicated space.... competing against 2 much stronger foes. They could pull an xbox/360 but it would take a few billion and the level of return would likely be nowhere near worth it (because games alone will not net enough $). There is only one established competitor in that space with ios.

 

[brotkasten]

The problem with XBL on WP7 is that their line-up sucks. Where's the first party content? Where are all the ports of the XBLA (exclusive) games? So far we have ilomilo, which was exclusive to AT&T for a while, and hydro thunder go, but that's all we know so far. I don't see any other support from Microsoft. Sure, the Halo Waypoint app is great for fans, but it's not a game! Where's Shadow complex or Limbo? What about Forza Mobile? Instead they're making such a big fuss about the Angry Birds port, lmao. They aren't showing any effort. The Kinect + WP7 tech demo was cool, but it's not coming this year.

 

[FoneBone]

That point doesn't matter as long as ios is successful (and it has been very successful). wp7 is trying to be the psp (2nd place) of that space and it's not a bad play. They do need to get an ipod touch type of device out though so you don't have to get a cell phone contract. They really need to get that device out there to have a chance in that space though.

That's nice. It has nothing to do with the question of this thread, which is specifically about a dedicated handheld.

Anyway the short version is that I don't believe that the dedicated handheld market is imminently threatened per se by smartphones, but the nature of it is such that there's absolutely no space for a new entrant.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

WP7 would be closest. With 3DS out and NGP on the horizon, they would be last to enter a market where its dominated by two of their competitors. It's all about timing. Maybe next portable gen in 5 or 6 years. MS doesn't seem interested in portable gaming at all really.

 

[jonnybryce]

I don't think we'll see a dedicated device any time soon. MS is relying on WP7, which makes sense. I know many gaffers don't love smartphone gaming but millions of people do and it's just easier for companies.

If you look at Sony, iOS gaming has influenced them tremendously. Their advertising, Minis, Xperia Play, Playstation Suite, and many components of the NGP are a direct response to iOS gaming.

Microsoft can have a strong prescence in mobile gaming with the smartphone. Letting it exist and accumulate some nice games like Apple does is one thing, if Microsoft was to develop some killer first party titles like a portable Halo or even Halo Wars it would be a much stronger push. That can easily be achieved.

So I wouldn't say never, but for the foreseeable future I see it being all about WP7.

 

[phisheep]

I don't think so. Or at least not yet.

If they were to do it at all it would be on the back of the XBL network, and jury's out a bit on how robust that is going to be over generations.

At present MS seems to me like the IBM of the 1970's - at some stage it is going to just totally lose it after putting half a toe in too many waters.

 

[JWong]

WP7 would be closest. With 3DS out and NGP on the horizon, they would be last to enter a market where its dominated by two of their competitors. It's all about timing. Maybe next portable gen in 5 or 6 years. MS doesn't seem interested in portable gaming at all really.

Well they were interested in an even more competitive market with WP7, which has no hope in hell to gaining any ground against Google or Apple especially in the Western Market.

 

[Deku]

Nebulous talk about market share aside, the core proposition is to profitability.

Microsoft is struggling with the the smartphone market because they are a software company, they've proven this with their aptitute with their innovative approach at turning consoles from boxes that play games into boxes with media centers and on-line ecosysytems. On the smartphone market most of the profits is derived from selling a smartphone to a phone carrier for 3-4x its manufacturing price. And for 2x its cost for non phone versions. This is why Nokia waved the white flag, not that they weren't selling enough apps.

They also do not have an ecosystem like itunes to build on.

Microsoft cannot make any money making commissions of $1 or $5 apps, which is not really the profit driver for Apple either. If they are going to enter portable gaming, it makes more sense for them to produce dedicated games device where they can leverage their software expertise with the hardware itself being a conduit to the software.

They are in the smartphone market because W7 is their successor platform to their failed Windows Mobile platform. The analysis that it is their all in one play is off the mark.

It's always sort of hilarious when people who clearly spend a lot of time on these devices just make assumptions about business models and what someone else should do to break into this great stock tip.