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Will multiplatform games be held back graphically on the PS4 because of XBOX1?

Bundy said:
It's funny how you're spinning it, just to prove your point ;)
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Well, I just don't think the theoretical advantages held by the PS4 will necessarily translate into significant practical improvements, that's all. I think the difference will be negligible to most.
 
Dark Octave said:
The weaker one will hold back the more powerful one. It doesn't matter which one leads.
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It won't, the differences will be in framerates, resolutions, effects & such, not if one is too weak to even run some game at a fundamental level (i.e. you could never ever make GTAV on PS1 without it being a fundamentally different game, but with PS4 vs Xbone it will just probably come down to one having worse IQ and effects, perhaps textures, than the other). They'll both be able to run large scale games with some more or less complex shit going on.

iMax said:
Well, I just don't think the theoretical advantages held by the PS4 will necessarily translate into significant practical improvements, that's all. I think the difference will be negligible to most.
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I don't see how you can make yourself believe that. With PS3 it was the case because, even if it was slightly more powerful, it was so hard to develop for that it pretty much negated every advantage it had when it comes to multiplatform games. PS4 & XBone are similar arcitechture-wise, but PS4 is NOTICEABLY more powerful (the gap is a lot bigger than PS3 vs. 360, where PS3 had some bottlenecks you had to get around of), which means that whatever theoretical advantages PS4 has, it's also relatively easy to take advantage of that in practice because it's a simpler hardware than PS3.
 
Silky said:
No. PS4/Xbone are essentially the same.
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You are clearly clueless, why post?

Although I highly doubt we will see a huge difference in multiplat games, it is a fact that the PS4 has better hardware than the XB1 and that will probably be most noticeable in things like FPS and resolution.
 
Why are we still arguing this? PS4 is a good deal more powerful than Xbone. We all know this. Devs are going to make sure every bit they squeeze of out the platforms for their games will happen. PS4 multis will more than likely run better more consistently. End of story.
 
iMax said:
Well, I just don't think the theoretical advantages held by the PS4 will necessarily translate into significant practical improvements, that's all. I think the difference will be negligible to most.
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I agree. I think in a DF comparison, the PS4 will show better. But if I go to a buddies house and watch him play BF4 on PS4 and then to another buddies house and see BF4 on Xbox one, will the differences be apparent when not side by side? Doubtful for me personally. Are these differences perceived or real enough to impact a purchase decision? Probably far less than what system your MP friends plan to purchase, the games you like to play, ui preference, or feature preferences.
 
Wynnebeck said:
Why are we still arguing this? PS4 is a good deal more powerful than Xbone. We all know this. Devs are going to make sure every bit they squeeze of out the platforms for their games will happen. PS4 multis will more than likely run better more consistently. End of story.
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Why didnt that happen this year? Ignoring how similar PS3/360 multiplats where, why didnt any 3rd party games come close to exclusives? If devs really gave a fuck about squeezing every bit out of consoles then they could have this gen.
 
These arguments always seem like pointless fanboy ranting to me.

If you want the best looking multiplatform games, build a top flight gaming PC and be done with it.

Consoles are really just for the exclusives, and obviously aren't for uber graphic's whores who want to compare graphics and get the best they can etc.

And I say that as console-only gamer who's never had a gaming PC. But I'm also a console gamer who's not a graphic's whore and couldn't care less which platform has the best looking versions of multiplatforms as I always find that stuff neglible and don't do any side by side comparisons and what not.

All I care about is making sure the version I'm getting isn't full of bugs on one platform and not the other (like Skyrim on PS3).
 
BurntToast said:
Y'all do realize he's right don't you?

He's clearly talking architecture not power. With similar architecture there isn't much of a problem scaling slightly for different power ranges.
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So using this logic, PS4 and X1 are the same as a 1979 PC because they share the same x86 architecture.
 
iMax said:
Well, I just don't think the theoretical advantages held by the PS4 will necessarily translate into significant practical improvements, that's all. I think the difference will be negligible to most.
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You could say that to the PS3/Xbox360 difference. Yes!
But the gap between the PS4/XBone is much bigger and you know that.
I'm mean, just look at the specs. No need for "guessing", if you have a spec sheet.
 
It doesn't really make sense to put a ton of effort into the PS4/Xbone differences. Console players in general are less discerning and the effort will largely be a waste of time for multiplatform efforts.

What you don't want is to create differences and have single-console owners not get your game at all because they heard "their version" is worse than "the other guy's" version.

All I'm hoping is that we finally stop seeing consoles hold back PC game development. Ideally they'd make the game for PC, then just create a "console" port that works for the twins.
 
Yes. History will show that the world's happiness declined the day XB1 was announced and a mountain of tears appeared, starting in a datacenter in new mexico where neogaf cloud servers were once hosted.
 
Bald Cleft said:
I think people are overestimating the power of PS4.
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People are overestimating it? They're posting specs and making an observation. The performance gap between the PS3 and 360 is minuscule and yet we saw noticeable differences between the two machines.

Their successors have a much larger disparity in terms of performance (and very similar architecture), so it's not wrong for people to say we'll be seeing even greater differences.

It seems pretty cut and dry.
 
I think people don't want to admit that the PS4 is clearly better in terms of hardware and assume that the PS4 advantages over the Xbone is the same as the PS3/360 when that's obviously not the case. "Oh A and B were almost the same so Y and Z will be almost the same as well!" it doesn't work that way.
 
Salex said:
I think people don't want to admit that the PS4 is clearly better in terms of hardware and assume that the PS4 advantages over the Xbone is the same as the PS3/360 when that's obviously not the case. "Oh A and B were almost the same so Y and Z will be almost the same as well!" it doesn't work that way.
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Is anyone in this thread saying that? I just dont see how we can know what advantages one will have over the other until they are out, and then we have to wait and see if any devs will take advantage to the power difference if there is a noticeable difference.
 
OP and others are deluded into thinking there is such a significant difference in power between the two machines, that the PS4 will be somehow held back in multi-plats. We aren't talking about a two-three times more powerful machine, for Christ's sake!
 
This is what I'm most scared of when it comes to multiplats next gen, and this is why I'm not exactly for everything going multiplatform.
 
Probably, if developers choose to develop first on the system anyways then port up to ps4, it at least means the systems will be at parity or better on PS4 though, probably similar to Xbox and Ps2. Of course, all devs chose to prioritize PS2 for obvious reasons, that happening with the next Xbox isn't so obvious, but I think many will.
 
timetokill said:
It doesn't really make sense to put a ton of effort into the PS4/Xbone differences. Console players in general are less discerning and the effort will largely be a waste of time for multiplatform efforts.
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Again, how does that explain the fact that devs had no problems with taking advantage of Gamecube & Xbox vs. PS2 or taking advantage of the easier arcitechture of Xbox 360 and leaving PS3 versions gimped more often than not? PS2 versions were shitty beyond belief in some cases in comparison to their Xbox versions, but devs still gave that extra UMPH to Xbox games. And this was in a situation where PS2 had sold, like, 6x Xboxes numbers.

What you don't want is to create differences and have single-console owners not get your game at all because they heard "their version" is worse than "the other guy's" version.
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No one but the HC whiners at gaming boards care about most differences between multiplatforms when they've already purchased one platform over the other (it mostly comes down to price & games.. and hype/general view on the console, which might of course mean that some people buy the more powerful console in the first case, though historically it hasn't been so). In a theoretical situation, a person who has already bought Xbone in 2013 won't give a shit if his version of GTAVI (when it releases in, say, 2015) has an average framerate of 35fps whereas for PS4 it's 45 and resolution is 1600x900 whereas PS4 version's is 1920x1080p and PS4 has some nicer effects.

All I'm hoping is that we finally stop seeing consoles hold back PC game development. Ideally they'd make the game for PC, then just create a "console" port that works for the twins.
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Even Square Enix is developing console exclusive (atm) games like that. At first developing, say FFXV like they were working on a high-end PC and then scaling that to run on PS4 & Xbone. And all multiplatform devs working on PCs are doing so.
 
I just don't get it, how can people look at the specs posted and come up with the result that these machines will be close in power? For crying out loud 40% increases and in some cases 90%.

Almost double the fillrate on the PS4, didn't we just see the effect this had in Zone of the Enders HD on PS3? (PS2 fillrate vs PS3) What about Bayonetta where all the alpha effects completely screwed up the PS3 version. People seem intent on down playing the GPU differences but after seeing the huge weak link the RSX was last gen If I was going XB1 first I'd be worried.
 
It isn't exactly rocket science. If the devs put in the work I am sure they could put a better product out for ps4... significantly better? Probably not.

I am expecting to see about the same game on both platforms.
 
Kysen said:
I just don't get it, how can people look at the specs posted and come up with the result that these machines will be close in power? For crying out loud 40% increases and in some cases 90%.

Almost double the fillrate on the PS4, didn't we just see the effect this had in Zone of the Enders HD on PS3? (PS2 fillrate vs PS3) What about Bayonetta where all the alpha effects completely screwed up the PS3 version. People seem intent on down playing the GPU differences but after seeing the huge weak link the RSX was last gen If I was going XB1 first I'd be worried.
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Because its not all just about the gpu specs?

but I am excited to see how things shape up.
I hope there are a lot of demos because most of those games I am getting on PC.
 
yankeehater said:
Why didnt that happen this year? Ignoring how similar PS3/360 multiplats where, why didnt any 3rd party games come close to exclusives? If devs really gave a fuck about squeezing every bit out of consoles then they could have this gen.
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Why? Because, at worst, these devs have been working on PC, PS3, 360 and more versions (Vita? 3DS? PS4? XBone?) at the same time. That won't leave them with the time to focus on getting every ounce of power out of every platform. What it did mean is that they could get the game running really well on the easiest console platform (360) while leaving the rest eating the dust. Now we have two relatively easy next-gen platforms (comparable in power), so it'll be easy to pull that extra umph out of PS4 in comparison to XBone, while scaling down some aspects of the game for Xbone.
 
Back in the PS2 era certain games really did look quite a bit better on Xbox (extra shader effects and in some cases even 720p support) so hopefully this gen plays out like that.
 
Famassu said:
Again, how does that explain the fact that devs had no problems with taking advantage of Gamecube & Xbox vs. PS2 or taking advantage of the easier arcitechture of Xbox 360 and leaving PS3 versions gimped more often than not? PS2 versions were shitty beyond belief in some cases in comparison to their Xbox versions, but devs still gave that extra UMPH to Xbox games. And this was in a situation where PS2 had sold, like, 6x Xboxes numbers.
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The difference there was:

At many companies, they worked on middleware engines which ported to Xbox or PS2, and generally weren't concerned with PC at all -- they were so architecturally different. The differences were clear between Xbox and PS2, especially with RAM. On games I worked on there was always a struggle to get the damn thing running on PS2, which generally meant gimping the game for both versions in one way or another (like, say, number of objects per scene), but leaving the better textures on the Xbox version, or whatever.

Meanwhile, the GameCube version was rarely done onsite, and was often outsourced. The outsourced company had every reason to make the version as good as possible for the GameCube because it was the only thin they were working on. And considering they were coming from PS2 it generally wasn't hard to improve on it.

No one but the HC whiners at gaming boards care about most differences between multiplatforms when they've already purchased one platform over the other (it mostly comes down to price & games.. and hype/general view on the console, which might of course mean that some people buy the more powerful console in the first case, though historically it hasn't been so). In a theoretical situation, a person who has already bought Xbone in 2013 won't give a shit if his version of GTAVI (when it releases in, say, 2015) has an average framerate of 35fps whereas for PS4 it's 45 and resolution is 1600x900 whereas PS4 version's is 1920x1080p and PS4 has some nicer effects.
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This just backs up my point. If nobody cares then don't bother putting in the effort. It just costs money and AT BEST splits your audience. Why bother?
 
The short answer: Probably.

The long answer: I think it's too early to tell, but surely in from launch to the end of 2014 they will most likely be identical. This is because devs want to avoid spending needless time on ports. They'll essential make a "console" version and a PC version. The console version will indeed need to be altered specifically for the console it is on, but they will not waste valuable dev time tweaking for best results on the PS4 when they can spend that time working on making both console versions look better.

This is why you saw PS3-exclusives looking the best, they are dedicated to getting the most out of the hardware. For multiplatform games, the dev team is focused on making the game look the best on all platforms -- compatibility. If they have time, and or a known large base of PC users that will play -- they'll likely add some high-end PC features. If not, all 3 games will be identical. A good example of this is Dishonored. Out of the box, even the PC version looked identical to the other two. You had to do some forced tweaking to make it look better on PC.

It's unfortunate, but it's something that just happens. Fortunately, Sony seems to still be committed to exclusives.
 
Maaseru said:
But will the multiplatform developers of those very year titles that are so popular care? Care enough to actually do soemthing about it and make one version a lot better?
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They will have no choice, the same code will simply run better by default. . . less framedrops etc. because the power difference will be much bigger on PS4. So not only will multiplats perform better with no real work involved, there will probably be more enemies on screen and lighting effects too if they can be bothered.
 
CadetMahoney said:
They will have no choice, the same code will simply run better by default. . . less framedrops etc. because the power difference will be much bigger on PS4. So not only will multiplats perform better with no real work involved, there will probably be more enemies on screen and lighting effects too if they can be bothered.
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You honestly think devs are going to go in and fundamentally change their game from one console to the next by redoing encounters and adding additional enemies? Has that ever happen to any game?
 
I hope not, cause if they do hold back the ps4 version then that means they aren't afraid to hold back the pc version too. Use every system to its advantages so that the pc version isn't dragged down by the next-gen consoles.
 
timetokill said:
The difference there was:

At many companies, they worked on middleware engines which ported to Xbox or PS2, and generally weren't concerned with PC at all -- they were so architecturally different. The differences were clear between Xbox and PS2, especially with RAM. On games I worked on there was always a struggle to get the damn thing running on PS2, which generally meant gimping the game for both versions in one way or another (like, say, number of objects per scene), but leaving the better textures on the Xbox version, or whatever.

Meanwhile, the GameCube version was rarely done onsite, and was often outsourced. The outsourced company had every reason to make the version as good as possible for the GameCube because it was the only thin they were working on. And considering they were coming from PS2 it generally wasn't hard to improve on it.
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Yeah, and due to hardware similarities, it should be easy to develop first on the most powerful platform (PC) and then scale down from that. It's really like a scenario of Super High End PC vs. High End PC (PS4) vs. not quite as high end but still plenty powerful PC (XBone). You can develop with the Super High End PC in mind, then just scale down everything to run on weaker PCs pretty easily. I don't think consoles will gimp PC gaming much, they are getting to a point where all kinds of stuff are possible even on the weakest one, just not with quite as smooth a framerate or high a resolution or whatever.



This just backs up my point. If nobody cares then don't bother putting in the effort. It just costs money and AT BEST splits your audience. Why bother?
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Nobody cares who already has one console over the other. It might push others to buy a PS4 over Xbone. If someone wants Assassin's Creed XX in a couple of years and doesn't have either console, they'll probably get the cheaper console or one that is pushed more or has gotten more positive hype or that their friends have and get the game on that not giving a damn even if one version is gimped while people who already have their PS4s & Xbones will buy the version on their chosen platform, no matter if it's quite noticeably worse than the other version.

My point was that only the biggest console warriors will leave something they want unbought because of differences between versions (unless it's something completely horrible like Bayonetta's PS3 version), the rest will get it on whatever platform they own or are willing to buy when that game releases.
 
Here's a better question. Will my PC games be held back graphically by the PS4? Its already happening.

The Xboxbone and PS4 use the same GPU at different clocks with slightly different features. The graphical difference is blown out of proportion.
 
Quite a bit of people ignored FFXIII for 360 because it looked worse. I think developers will try to make both versions as close as possible to each other to get maximum sales.
 
krizzx said:
Here's a better question. Will my PC games be held back graphically by the PS4? Its already happening.

The Xboxbone and PS4 use the same GPU at different clocks with slightly different features. The graphical difference is blown out of proportion.
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Couple of things wrong with this post.

1.) Your games are being graphically held back more by shitty computers that make up 90% of the PC gaming market than by consoles.

2.) It's not the same GPU at all.....Jesus do some research before you post next time.
 
Rad- said:
Quite a bit of people ignored FFXIII for 360 because it looked worse. I think developers will try to make both versions as close as possible to each other to get maximum sales.
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Just like quite a lot of people avoided PS3 versions because they ran worse (Skyrim, Bayonetta etc.) I don't think the difference is going to be any where near as big as the Xbox to the PS2, shaders were huge back then and allowed games like Doom 3 and Half Life 2 which would have never ever worked on PS2. Even on that hardware though, the multiplatform games barely looked any better if at all. I remember Spiderman 2 had reflective windows compared to the PS2 version but it looked tacky and weird, and GTA san andreas's signs were slightly more readable but there really wasn't much difference in many games.

The PS3 and 360 were basically identical. I think the difference between these consoles will be a lot smaller in practice than people think.
 
The PS4 IS being overestimated by most of you. You guys dont seem to realize most of that extra ROP/ALU power isnt a linear increase in performance in terms of visuals. 40% more 'raw' power with equal CPU's are not going to come close to equaling 40% more "visual" difference.
 
Famassu said:
Yeah, and due to hardware similarities, it should be easy to develop first on the most powerful platform (PC) and then scale down from that. It's really like a scenario of Super High End PC vs. High End PC (PS4) vs. not quite as high end but still plenty powerful PC (XBone). You can develop with the Super High End PC in mind, then just scale down everything to run on weaker PCs pretty easily. I don't think consoles will gimp PC gaming much, they are getting to a point where all kinds of stuff are possible even on the weakest one, just not with quite as smooth a framerate or high a resolution or whatever.
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It's more like scaling down to "mid-tier PC" for PS4/Xbone but yes. That said there's no reason to make two different versions for the consoles. Just make them the same, save the dev time or put the money into making the game itself better for everyone.


Nobody cares who already has one console over the other. It might push others to buy a PS4 over Xbone. If someone wants Assassin's Creed XX in a couple of years and doesn't have either console, they'll probably get the cheaper console or one that is pushed more or has gotten more positive hype or that their friends have and get the game on that not giving a damn even if one version is gimped while people who already have their PS4s & Xbones will buy the version on their chosen platform, no matter if it's quite noticeably worse than the other version.

My point was that only the biggest console warriors will leave something they want unbought because of differences between versions (unless it's something completely horrible like Bayonetta's PS3 version), the rest will get it on whatever platform they own or are willing to buy when that game releases.
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For the "casual" gamers playing CoD or Madden, sure, they'll buy whatever version comes with their hardware, because they don't care about differences.

But the games on message boards, on Kotaku and so on do care, and that's why enthusiast sites are constantly doing comparison articles, "Which version should you buy?" articles, etc. Plenty of people skipped Bayonetta on PS3 because they heard it wasn't as good, or they skipped FF13 on 360 because it wasn't as good, etc. Same thing with Skyrim on PS3.

Whether or not they can see it, the enthusiast audience wants to validate their purchase and their "team" and so they click these articles at an astonishing rate, and then come to NeoGAF to argue about it, etc. While this highlights the game for the publisher, if the difference between the two is clear it also makes one "team" less enthusiastic about the game because it doesn't validate their purchase in the way they want it to. And there's HELL TO PAY if it scores less than the other version. They don't even really care about the graphics, they just don't want it to be the "crappy version."

Why bother with that kind of snake? Just make them the same and get them the same score. When they're the same or similar the console players can't tell anyway, and they don't care at the point, and they care about the game and not team points. The fanboys will argue either way even if there are no differences at all, of course, but there's nothing to do about that.
 
Well, I remember people like Carmack saying that the power of the two consoles are almost identical, so I would guess not. The only thing I could think of is if one of the two manufacturers has the ability to somehow set aside additional RAM for the console to use while playing a game, at the expense of shutting down some of the multi-tasking features. Maybe on that last bit, I'm not sure if it is possible.

But there could be a chance!
 
Maaseru said:
The systems are basically the same. The people that complain are obviously missinformed or fanboys They both have the same architecture in which to develop, sure there are different specs, thought they won't really matter that much in the long wrong and the differences will be even less now that they are even more similar machines that x360/ps3 were. The difference will come in the specific and extra features each consoles has. But thinking how things have gone with some of the hardware I don't see every developer getting the best out of each console in a multiplatform sceneario. I know people love to complain about Kinect, but the PS4 eye and some of the other extra features of both system may be compromised because of multiplatform.

And if any of you have any clue the best bet would be to make an overspec version for the PC, then port it down into the PS4/XBO. The 3 have the same x86 architecture and they would all benefit from being developed for the better paltforms. The guys at SE already suggested this with FFXV and Rockstar most likely hasn't announced a PC version of GTAV so they can develop the PC/PS4/XBo versions at once.

IDK why fanboys or haters cannot see this, must be the fanblindfold. I don't care how much better and amazing you think the PS4 is. it is no PC.
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PS4 has some major advantages. The differences being more obvious and 'more consistent' than it was with PS360. Obviously PS4 has more raw GPU power which is dead simple to take advantage of. But besides that, it has 16 times the ACE compute queues and is much better setup for GPGPU compute. This alone will be HUGE later in the gen as devs start to look for ways to push their games visually and with hUMA based API's being far more usable on PS4 expect the Xbone to lag overall. If your hoping for a back and forth competition like you saw last-gen you will be disappointed.
 
I think it'll just translate to higher frame rates on PS4 and not much else visually. No one is going to have two entirely different versions of a game.
 
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