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[Slaythe]

I like how Europe and Japan have the best connections.

And how it's the places where PSNow doesn't exist because "Internet infrastructure is not optimal in Europe". When the majority has optic fiber in all big cities. :/

Compared to shitty american connections, please Sony.

The sensible thing they could do, is let you get free PS Now for the game disc you insert in your PS4.

And fucking let it out in europe and japan.

And the other hand make psone and two emulation a thing on ps4.

 

[waitwhat42]

a feature that it probably should have included from the start?

Why? Why should it be backwards compatible? It's not like they ever said it would and then didn't do it.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I love the contradiction of 'I'd love to see ps2 emulation, can't wait!!!' Vs 'nobody cares about backwards compatibility anymore'. Amusing as hell, folks.

I think it's fairly obvious what the implication behind the "nobody cares about backwards compatibility anymore" claim is, i.e., "'nobody cares enough about backwards compatibility for it to be a significant factor in the marketability of consoles, but it'd be a nice cherry on top of our cake if they can work it out."

 

[FinalStageBoss]

Also didn't Jim Ryan say the feature wasn't greatly used on PS3. This isn't as big of an elephant as some of you like to think.

 

[RazielCuts]

Backwards compatibility.

Ever since they dropped the bomb at E3, Microsoft have had Sony wedged on this issue

I don't accept the premise. I mean yeah if we were at launch this would've been a killer feature (and still is to an extent when MS get it all out there) that Sony would've probably had to answer to but it being two years later into the generation I think we've all just moved on with the lack of backwards compatibility? I still have my PS3 hooked up for PS1, PS2 and P3 games. Helps when theres still pretty good sales on PSN to support it.

 

[driver116]

Wii U also has BC.

But Microsoft are the only ones who tried to make it work - apparently.

 

[Shenmue]

PS3 BC is pretty much impossible in my opinion based on the ridiculous PS3 architecture. I mean nobody has even gotten remotely close to a PS3 emulator on the most powerful PCs today right? Meanwhile, PS1 and PS2 emulators are pretty damn near perfect at this point. Because emulation for these 2 previous consoles are pretty damn perfect even on PCs not as strong as the PS4, I think it's definitely possible for Sony to implement it (they would know better than any outsider how to emulate their own console). Question is if it's really worth the time and money for them.

I think if anything PS1 and PS2 emulation could be announced, but it would definitely be at PSX if it were to happen. This is the kind of thing only hardcore Playstation fans would really care about and what better place to announce it than PSX, an event pretty much created for Playstation fans?

 

[RK128]

BC with the PS1 and PS2 (digital PS Classics at the very least) will be coming at some point and maybe they might roll out a program that slowly ports over the PS3 PSN Library over to the PS4. Otherwise, do not expect anything more (heck, I'm only expecting PS1 Classics support by summer 2016 and that is expecting too much).

With Sony, its best to not expect anything and be happy if they throw some kind of bone. Whenever Vita game gets released under their name? That's nice but I don't expect it. A PS4 game that might push me to get the console? They are making Ratchet PS4 and Square has KH3 and FFXV coming, so when those land I will get one for sure.

Going back on topic, PS1 BC should be a snap to implement as most PC's can do emulation and even handheld devices can pull it off; no excuse for no PS1 BC at this point on PS4.

PS2 BC is tricky but it is coming; EU got rating for Dark Cloud 2, Twisted Metal Black and Ape Escape 2 on PS4 a while back and that is likely PGS news.

PS3 BC is something that the PS4 cannot do; no Cell Processor equals PS3 BC not happening.

 

[Slayven]

I rather have external harddrives and PSN not be shit. BC only appeals to a subset of a subset.

Did BC push out that many more Xbones?

 

[WickedLaharl]

I thought you meant #BetterPSN

This and why the fuck can't i use an eternal hdd for game installs are more important to me than BC.

 

[Sakura]

The indifference towards the PS3 BC specifically is largely due to the correct knowledge of the PS3's architecture. I don't see why that should be an excuse for Sony, they designed the PS3 did they not? But I understand what they are saying. PS3 BC would be very hard to do but I doubt it's "impossible".

Just because you don't think it is impossible doesn't mean that is true. The PS3 architecture is considerably different than the Xbox 360's. It may very well be impossible to have the machine run PS3 games.

I like how Europe and Japan have the best connections.

And how it's the places where PSNow doesn't exist because "Internet infrastructure is not optimal in Europe". When the majority has optic fiber in all big cities. :/

Compared to shitty american connections, please Sony.

The sensible thing they could do, is let you get free PS Now for the game disc you insert in your PS4.

And fucking let it out in europe and japan.

And the other hand make psone and two emulation a thing on ps4.

Japan does have PS Now. Or am I misunderstanding your post?

 

[NullPointer]

It'll be an elephant in the room for the next consoles, which will presumably be much closer in architecture to their current gen models.

 

[twobear]

So you have just as little of a point.

well MS are about to launch an entirely new OS for xbone so I would say there's pretty scant evidence that bc has really slowed them down that much

 

[MrHoot]

They already adressed it soon after the microsoft announcement: by basically saying it wasn't possible.

Best we can hope for is a LOT of ps2 and ps1 games in addition to ps3 on PS now, with the price of ps now going down.

The architecture of the ps3 was something special, but it was also specially absurd to work with and still is. Hell we probably won't see a decent PS3 emulator for a long time, if ever.



I wish we could have a ps2 + ps1 backwards compatibility module tho. Hell i'd pay for it if I could read ps2 discs from my ps4

 

[Wagram]

While it hasn't had a tangible effect on sales.

You answered your own question. They don't need to.

 

[Machina]

Just because you don't think it is impossible doesn't mean that is true. The PS3 architecture is considerably different than the Xbox 360's. It may very well be impossible to have the machine run PS3 games.

I don't believe that I did claim that was the truth. I said I doubted it was impossible, not that I knew that it wasn't.

 

[The Faceless Master]

two years too late.

around this time last gen, they were *removing* BC from PS3s

 

[Fat4all]

well MS are about to launch an entirely new OS for xbone so I would say there's pretty scant evidence that bc has really slowed them down that much

I'm not contending their output, I'm contending your point that they haven't diverted resources for BC when they literally would of had to.

I don't believe that I did claim that was the truth. I said I doubted it was impossible, not that I knew that it wasn't.

Unless they start shipping PS4's with cell processors and start charging $500+ for the system, it's impossible.

 

[Trago]

For PS3, it's not happening unfortunately. But I think it's good to remaster first party titles from last gen so that we can get these titles at at a higher resolution and frame rate. Until the Uncharted collection was released we were stuck with 30 fps, which is dog shit.

In terms of Ps1/2, there is no excuse. Sony should make all of the classics available on PS4 to help build and secure the PlayStation catalog. I don't give a shit if you've kept your console, in an age where iOS, Android, and Steam are things, you do not cut off the compatibility of your software. It should be a must have feature, and it opens the door for someone to easily jump ship if their old titles aren't playable on new hardware.

 

[RichiRamjag]

It isn't happening. Sony is selling consoles hand over fist, I doubt they consider it the elephant in The room.

 

[twobear]

I'm not contending their output, I'm contending your point that they haven't diverted resources for BC when they literally would of had to.

???

or they could just get some other group of the literally thousands of microsoft employees to work on it, something that sony could also easily do

 

[thelastcrusader]

It isn't happening. The elephant isn't there.

My thoughts exactly. Who is this an elephant to besides op? Just get a ps3 for 100 bucks.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I rather have external harddrives and PSN not be shit. BC only appeals to a subset of a subset.

Did BC push out that many more Xbones?

we can't really know until its out of beta this xmas season,.

 

[Illucio]

I feel like people are too dumb to understand how previous Playstation systems were able to have backwards compatible in the first place.

The Xbox One has to emulate the games, that's why majority of games don't run on it.

For the PS4 to play PS4 games the games would have be very light games to run.

The first run PS3 practically had a mini PS2 in it which allowed it to play PS3 games, and the PS3 was able to play PS1 games in general simply because it was a powerful enough system to emulate it.

Think computer emulations, most computers now can just now emulate PS2 games but not so much PS3 games as of now.

Playstation's view was that they thought PS Now was their solution, but it ended up becoming an expensive solution that consumers didn't jump on.
So if they decide to make any sort of backwards compatibility wouled be very limited and costly. The smarter move would be to just port over popular games and give them a nice visual treatment. Any smaller games could just be ported over/emulated.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I can't imagine anyone at Sony has given this more than a second thought, especially considering the easy money they get with up-ports "remasters".

BC isn't really a selling point outside of the launch window when there's nothing to play.

 

[Freeman]

I like how Europe and Japan have the best connections.

And how it's the places where PSNow doesn't exist because "Internet infrastructure is not optimal in Europe". When the majority has optic fiber in all big cities. :/

Compared to shitty american connections, please Sony.

The sensible thing they could do, is let you get free PS Now for the game disc you insert in your PS4.

And fucking let it out in europe and japan.

And the other hand make psone and two emulation a thing on ps4.

That makes no sense. So they would have to pay the server costs for countless used copies of games and get nothing in return? While at the same time removing any reason for the PSNow subscription to exist? If Sony is going to become a charity I think there are better things they could do out there for the world.

360 BC already feels like old news and its not even out yet, its not like Sony needs to counter it whit something. PS4 price cut will likely have a much greater impact.

PS1 and PS2 BC make sense because its easy to implement and they can keep making money from PS Classics.

 

[Sakura]

I don't believe that I did claim that was the truth. I said I doubted it was impossible, not that I knew that it wasn't.

And I said you don't think it is impossible. Same thing no? Not sure on the contention here...

 

[driver116]

And I disagree about PS Now being Sony's answer to BC. It was never announced to be that. It's part of a much bigger picture in the coming years. How has it bombed?

 

[jaxpunk]

in an age where iOS, Android, and Steam are things, you do not cut off the compatibility of your software. It should be a must have feature, and it opens the door for someone to easily jump ship if their old titles aren't playable on new hardware.

iOS and Android updates regularly break compatibility and in some cases flat out remove apps you've paid for from their stores.

 

[GeoramA]

Would have been an elephant if XB1 had BC at launch and PS4 didn't. Even then, it wouldn't have even mattered sales-wise.

 

[Trago]

iOS and Android updates regularly break compatibility and in some cases flat out remove apps you've paid for from their stores.

Same with Steam, but their catalogs are still massive and can be used on newer hardware. With Sony and MS at the start of this gen? it was basically "Fuck you, buy our new shit." with a small amount of software.

 

[Machina]

And I disagree about PS Now being Sony's answer to BC. It was never announced to be that. It's part of a much bigger picture in the coming years. How has it bombed?

Did you hear how the Japanese head honcho referred to it at Sony's press gig in Japan recently?

I believe it went something like "I've been told to act excited about this" or something along those lines.

And I said you don't think it is impossible. Same thing no? Not sure on the contention here...

I doubt it's impossible because I've seen IT engineers pull off some sick miracles in the past. Perhaps the Cell Processer is beyond them, I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't and they just are choosing not to say so because it would be costly.

 

[Yoday]

I don't accept the premise. I mean yeah if we were at launch this would've been a killer feature (and still is to an extent when MS get it all out there) that Sony would've probably had to answer to but it being two years later into the generation I think we've all just moved on with the lack of backwards compatibility? I still have my PS3 hooked up for PS1, PS2 and P3 games. Helps when theres still pretty good sales on PSN to support it.

I think the difference with the XB1 BC is that in a later update X360 games that are BC will be in the XB1 store, and this is going to create an opportunity for much more expansive sales. Older games are still featured prominently on Steam, and that is one of the reasons why their sales are considered so good. The back catalog of 360 games are going to be a pretty big deal when they are featured, easy to access, cheap, and part of one giant multi-generation library of games.

 

[rpmurphy]

It doesn't matter that much if MS has backwards-compatibility on Xbox One, because who are they going to attract? 360 users. BC helps MS because it helps lessen the bleed of their last generation's userbase over to PS4, but that is about it. That bleeding is still a gush.

That's just the reality of it. I love BC. I would have bought a PS4 already if it had full PS3 BC and sell off my PS3 console, but nope, I will gladly wait another year or two until there are "must-have" games for me.

 

[Slayven]

we can't really know until its out of beta this xmas season,.

Shit I thought it was out, so MS going to advertise that, Fallout, Halo, and Tomb Raider? Mighty slim.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Backwards compatibility.

Ever since they dropped the bomb at E3, Microsoft have had Sony wedged on this issue. While it hasn't had a tangible effect on sales, it is definitely a feather in MS cap to be able to claim to be the only ones who bothered to at least try and make it work. 360 owners, unlike PS3 owners currently know that they aren't losing a library of potentially hundreds of games by selling their old console because they know at least eventually they'll be able to play them on the Xbone, if not now.

Sony, I would realllly appreciate it if you freed up some space in my entertainment unit by updating the PS4 to include a feature that it probably should have included from the start? Instead of the direction you took which was to hedge your bets on PS Now only to have it bomb. Totally not predictable in a world where broadband infrastructure is largely a disgrace in the west.

So you admit it hasn't had any real impact and yet it's still the elephant in the room?

Sorry OP but you really don't seem to know what you're talking about. PS3 BC on PS4 is never going to happen and PS Now has nothing to do with it.

PS1 and PS2 BC on the other hand? Absolutely and I'm sure we'll see it at some point. They already have the emulators, getting them on the PS4 is "just" a tedious task of porting them over and then relicensing/retesting the entire library of Classics all over again. Plus there's always the speculation that they might be trying to add improvements to them this time around, like trophies, higher resolutions, etc., which takes extra work. I'm hoping we'll see the PSP emulator at some point too, cause they may as well try to resell those games as well.

It's cute that you think every 360 game will eventually be backwards compatible on Xbone though. Personally, I'd suggest you not throw/sell your 360 away just yet.

 

[Trago]

I think the difference with the XB1 BC is that in a later update X360 games that are BC will be in the XB1 store, and this is going to create an opportunity for much more expansive sales. Older games are still featured prominently on Steam, and that is one of the reasons why their sales are considered so good. The back catalog of 360 games are going to be a pretty big deal when they are featured, easy to access, cheap, and part of one giant multi-generation library of games.

Exactly. Why do some of you think Steam is held in high regard?

 

[jaxpunk]

Same with Steam, but their catalogs are still massive and can be used on newer hardware. With Sony and MS at the start of this gen? it was basically "Fuck you, buy our new shit." with a small amount of software.

So the qualification is what having so much you don't miss what you've paid for? Come on.

 

[SURGEdude]

Considering the Cell outperforms the PS4's Jaguar at a (small) handful of operations it's not just likely impossible, it is impossible. Sure there might be a small handful of titles that might be doable, but no way would Sony want to attract attention to a feature that would certainly be half-baked.

What MS has done is pretty damn amazing frankly. The only other solutions I can think of that come close are Connectix Virtual Game Station doing amazing PS1 emulation in 1997, and Apple's PPC to x86 Rosetta framework. On the fly translation like that is really fucking hard especially on such limited hardware as the Xbox and to a lesser extent the PS4.

 

[GHG]

I genuinely thought this was going to be a GT7 thread.

This isn't an elephant.

Golden rule of business is just because your competitor does something it doesn't mean you have to too. Just do what works for you.

 

[FranXico]

I feel like people are too dumb to understand how previous Playstation systems were able to have backwards compatible in the first place.

The Xbox One has to emulate the games, that's why majority of games don't run on it.

For the PS4 to play PS4 games the games would have be very light games to run.

The first run PS3 practically had a mini PS2 in it which allowed it to play PS3 games, and the PS3 was able to play PS1 games in general simply because it was a powerful enough system to emulate it.

Think computer emulations, most computers now can just now emulate PS2 games but not so much PS3 games as of now.

Playstation's view was that they thought PS Now was their solution, but it ended up becoming an expensive solution that consumers didn't jump on.
So if they decide to make any sort of backwards compatibility would be very limited and costly. The smarter move would be to just port over popular games and give them a nice visual treatment. Any smaller games could just be ported over/emulated.

Even the PS2 actually had PS1 hardware in it.

Note that some PS2 games later were released for the PS3 as "PS2 Classics", each of these downloads probably containing a version of a PS2 emulator with its own game-specific optimizations.

 

[Nesther]

Yeah, they need to address the lack of Ape Escape.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I doubt it's impossible because I've seen IT engineers pull off some sick miracles in the past. Perhaps the Cell Processer is beyond them, I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't and they just are choosing not to say so because it would be costly.

Even assuming it's merely "costly" rather than "impossible," at what cost is it worth it to you?

 

[Aces&Eights]

I thought this thread would be about Demons Souls and Dark Souls not being on PSNow.

We've been told emulating the cell on ps4 hardware is not possible, or really, really difficult and not cost effective. Doubt it will ever happen.

 

[benny_a]

Yeah, they need to address the lack of Ape Escape.

Lightsabers are hot this year. Believe!

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

I'd love PS3 but it's not going to happen due to the crazy design. They had to cut over for the PS4 and I think moving forward Sony will carry those games forward.

Now i do think and expect at some point they'll add the PS1&2 game support to ps4 which will be great

 

[ArtHands]

Didn't sony repeatedly said that there's a large portion of ps4 owners not having a ps3? Having compatibility with ps1/2/3 games will allow them to buy and play those old games, which also means more sales.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Sony is more likely to bring an actual elephant out on stage in Paris. And that would have a greater effect on sales.

 

[Trago]

So the qualification is what having so much you don't miss what you've paid for? Come on.

And what's wrong with that? I'd be pissed if all of my apps on my phone don't work on my upgraded model. If I build a new Pc with totally new parts, I'd be pissed if my Steam library wasn't accessible at all. If you are investing in an ecosystem, why the hell wouldn't you want all of software working out of the box?

 

[BibiMaghoo]

They didn't invest in PSNow so that they could just give you B/c for free. It is not going to happen. The absolute best possible result is PS1 and PS classics. PS3 will never ever happen.