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[Smelly Tramp]

the head start really does make all the difference. there is no way xbox would be as strong as they are now if it weren't for that. but power to them for getting it out of the gates earlier than everyone else.

i love my playstation franchises but i struggle to see how sony can push ahead this time getting out the gate late again, it would take some kind of technical MARVEL.

 

[apana]

Getting a head start is overrated in my opinion. The bigger issue for Sony was the price and the fact that Microsoft and Nintendo stepped up their game, started differentiating themselves from Sony. 2014 launch is fine, it's not about when you launch it is about what you are launching.

edit: Pachter, however, did say that he thinks Sony is determined to launch at the same time as Microsoft so I guess 2013 is also a possiblity.

 

[RyanReedyMusic]

Now with the VGA's nearing us. Do any of you guys think that we shall see a tease in the next few months even on a Sony or Microsoft Direct level?

 

[Parmenides]

I see.The mythical "first mover advantage" strikes again.

Blu-ray-less PS3 would have been the best selling console of all time regardless of launch date.I don't know if EDD can compete outside its comfort zone without a massive cost advantage.

           Cont EUR+AU     JAP      Other       TOT

PS3           18.7         8.4      10.8        37.9 

360           12.5         1.5      8.1         22.1



Head Start     16          12       12-16  (months)


* Excluding US/UK/CN (as of September 2012)

Source: Sony,EA,Nintendo,Media Create,GfK

Sony was downgraded to junk status,seeks to boost capital ratio to 40%,has the best selling and the most expensive console on the planet,with tons of games in development from Japan and the West.Sony can run that business as they see fit,but the main goal for FY 2013/14 should be profitability.Anything else is ludicrous.

EDD situation is different for the simple reason that US/UK is fast approaching its limit,so 2013 seems reasonable.

I disagree. I think Nintendo has already won Japan in the console space. Sony fumbled their advantage as incumbent and now the confidence they had previously with Japanese third parties lies with Nnitendo.

Nintendo is a great company.Numbers and announcements (Dinasty Warriors,MGS,FF,KH,Dark Souls...) speak for themselves though.

 Famitsu Top 30 (Feb 21,2011 - Dec 2,2012)


                                        Platform

Third Party SW           PS3         3DS          Wii         NDS       
----------------     -------------------------------------------------
     TOT             14,592,477   8,041,206    2,337,551   1,979,741
  
TOT - (MH + DQ)      14,205,088   5,546,310    1,736,041   1,979,741

                        Famitsu - Hardware Sales

                                  
 Week        PS3'10    PS3'12      PS2'06     PS1'00     Wii'12               
--------    -----------------------------------------------------
    
  41         19,617    43,870      27,441     9,810      4,282      

  42         21,001    28,010      27,030     8,990      4,238  
 
  43         19,240    22,306      20,297     7,259      3,596     

  44         23,703    21,470      21,929     8,728      3,744                

  45         19,428    23,106      18,411     5,893      3,340      

  46         17,029    19,369      14,319     5,462      3,020      

  47         26,195    18,213      14,042     5,413      3,095      

  48         61,096    34,836      23,369     6,820      4,009

  49         37,751    31,510      26,488     9,097      4,708 
            -----------------------------------------------------
 
 TOT         245,060   242,690     193,326    67,472     34,032 

        
-Week 41 2012: PS3 [CECH-4000 B / C] introduced (RRP 24,980 / 29,980 Yen)

-Week 38 2006: New price PS2 [SCPH-77000] (RRP 16,000 Yen)

-Week 27 2000 PS one [SCPH-100] introduced (RRP 15,000 Yen)

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

I don't think Sony will announce the PS4 until E3, because there must be a reason they're releasing the Last of Us right before the event, and I do think it'll release next year.

 

[pharmboy044]

I don't think Sony will announce the PS4 until E3, because there must be a reason they're releasing the Last of Us right before the event, and I do think it'll release next year.

They have to announce it before E3 and have people get hands on with it at E3.
If they wait until E3 to announce the PS4 then that confirms that they are not ready to launch until March.
Also, just because they announce the PS4 before a certain game is released doesn't make that game irrelevant. There is too much hype behind TLoU for it to get overshadowed by just the announcement of the PS4.

 

[Hazelhurst]

The Last of Us release date being in May is a huge warning sign that something big is coming in the Fall/Winter from them. I predict Sony will release their console at the end of 2013 (November?).

 

[AdventureRacing]

Really can't wait for this. Both because i'm desperate for the new gen to start but also to see the sales numbers and everything that comes with that.

I want to see how the 2 differentiate themselves from one another. It really is going to be a fascinating time.

 

[Nexus Zero]

I'm fairly certain they're both coming next year.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Neither of them will want to miss the holiday season. Both consoles will be out in time to welcome Modern Warfare 4.

 

[RyanReedyMusic]

Looks like its M first. Sony second. I might have to dig this one up later to see if we are right.

 

[Sean]

2013 for both.

If one of them launches in 2014 it would not have been by choice, rather some kind of production delay.

 

[Devilgunman]

I think MS and Sony will release their next console at the same time and they will be out in 2013. Sony can't afford to wait anymore. PS4 is destined to be the factor to turn the company around. They won't fuck it up.

 

[RyanReedyMusic]

Im going to have to retread my previous statements. Im going to say that its M first and then Sony. Although whats really tripping me out is the fact that all the big exclusives are releasing before the end of summer 2013. Something is up for sure.

 

[alphaNoid]

2013 for both.

If one of them launches in 2014 it would not have been by choice, rather some kind of production delay.

Production
Engineering
or Financial

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Guerrilla Games just recently stated that 2013 would possibly be their biggest year yet.

I seriously doubt they are still working on PS3, so all signs point to a PS4 launch.

My guess is that they are aiming to be ready for launch, but if Sony slips the date (due to manufacturing issues, etc), then it's out of their hands.

The "possibly" qualifier at least tells me that 2013 is the goal.

I also am not one to believe that launching first is everything, because previous generations have proved that it's not.

 

[Gummb]

The earlier they launch, the better for me. I want game development cycles to begin for both ASAP after their launches. I usually hate launch games because they need to be rushed for release. The common exception to this is Nintendo's titles.

However, I think I will go Sony this generation because I hate paying for Live. We will see...

 

[Chittagong]

It's really interesting to think what would happen if PS4 launched indeed head to head with 720, at same price point. Would it have happened this gen, Sony would have cleaned up no doubt. Even if struggling, the PlayStation brand is globally much stronger than Xbox.

That said, all signs point to MSFT being ready for 2013 and Sony struggling to make it.

 

[Haint]

I like having them both, so hopefully Sony can match the 720 on broader audience features. The rumors of MS going all-in "Xbox TV" seems like it could have the potential to annihilate PS4 if Sony are caught with their pants down. I suspect 720 might have Slingbox-500-like functionality (e.g. stream your current Cable/Sat service and recordings to any device, anywhere, on any connection--mobile included), whole home DVR functionality, and possibly some way to outright act as a super set top--be it a Cable Card/True2Way slot/accessory or even straight up coax through direct partnerships with providers. Haven't seen too many rumors about Sony doing that kind of stuff which is concerning.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

It's really interesting to think what would happen if PS4 launched indeed head to head with 720, at same price point. Would it have happened this gen, Sony would have cleaned up no doubt.

It would've, but that was 7 years ago and a lot has changed since then. If they launch at the same time and at the same price point this time around, it won't be advantageous to Sony as it would've been at the start of this gen.

Even if struggling, the PlayStation brand is globally much stronger than Xbox.

On the whole, it isn't anymore, not to any significant extent.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It would've, but that was 7 years ago and a lot has changed since then. If they launch at the same time and at the same price point this time around, it won't be advantageous to Sony as it would've been at the start of this gen.




On the whole, it isn't anymore, not to any significant extent.

On the whole it is, they sold 70 million in more than a year's less time and still at a higher price, all things being equal, if PS4 and 720 launch with similar specs, similar price, and in the same quarter then I don't see a scenario where Sony doesn't do significantly better world wide.

 

[iamshadowlark]

It would've, but that was 7 years ago and a lot has changed since then. If they launch at the same time and at the same price point this time around, it won't be advantageous to Sony as it would've been at the start of this gen.




On the whole, it isn't anymore, not to any significant extent.

On the whole it certainly is. Xbox is irrelevant in so much of the world. Even after what, a decade plus? If MS was to lose the sizeable advantage they had in the US, they would have sold almost XBOX1 levels.

Edit: I guess thats a little hyperbolic but the point still stands.

 

[Kaako]

...
On the whole, it isn't anymore, not to any significant extent.

Nope. It still is.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

On the whole it is, they sold 70 million in more than a year's less time and still at a higher price

And that's a direct result of Sony having a much better starting position, an advantage I'm positive they won't enjoy this time around.

On the whole it certainly is. Xbox is irrelevant in so much of the world.

PlayStation is more successful in more parts of the world, but the difference in other parts is so big that it makes up for it. On the whole, it's a wash.

 

[Router]

No way will sony release 2013. March 2014 at the earliest. It wont be a huge gap like this gen and honestly, one Christmas sales season means little in the long run. No matter what fanboys say.

Sony are much better off getting the launch right rather than getting it out first.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

And that's a direct result of Sony having a much better starting position, an advantage I'm positive they won't enjoy this time around.




PlayStation is more successful in more parts of the world, but the difference in other parts is so big that it makes up for it. On the whole, it's a wash.

Not really, the ps3s first year is when the most damage was done. Whatever great starting position they had was quickly eroded two months into their launch. It meant nothing at that point.

All of the gains have occurred after the first year, and launch aligned the ps3 has done substantially better and at a higher price.

It wasn't until they addressed pricing and compelling software concerns that they started doing well.

Parity on similar factors will mean that ps4 will do substantially better than the competition word wide.

 

[Oersted]

Will the Gods Clash Next Year? MS vs SONY Simultaneous Launch

MS and Sony gods? Now I have seen everything.

 

[iamshadowlark]

And that's a direct result of Sony having a much better starting position, an advantage I'm positive they won't enjoy this time around.

How? PS3 struggled hard out the gate and the numbers were mediocre till about 2009. Their starting position saw people looking elsewhere to buy consoles because Sonys was like 200/300 dollars over-priced.

People were buying Wii's, 360's and PS2s. Sony made a hell of a turn-around with the PS3.

PlayStation is more successful in more parts of the world, but the difference in other parts is so big that it makes up for it. On the whole, it's a wash.

I can't agree sorry. Similar numbers don't mean its a wash, numbers have perspective.

MS hasn't shown that its able to appeal the masses outside the US/UK as Sony/Nintendo have. And its been two generations. The sizeable lead they have built in the US is nice but as it stands now, its still going to be only good enough for third place. And this is by far the weakest console sony has released. A relatively good to strong PS4 could certainly even things back up in the states, which means MS would lose almost half their legs.

 

[Duxxy3]

I still can't see sony giving microsoft an entire holiday, at least not in america. I could definitely see them postponing a japanese launch to make more stock for the west.

 

[Thoraxes]

Much like the Wii U, I can't see the inevitable ports for either system selling well at all at launch, and the number of exclusives are likely to be very low.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Not really, the ps3s first year is when the most damage was done.

You're seemingly forgetting that Xbox 360 launched a whole year before PS3, and that's when the most damage to Xbox was made. Its first year could've been much better, but Sony did a good job of positioning PS3 as a wait-for-it platform. Only at E3 2006 did things really start to fall apart for Sony, and it took far longer than that for the third party software situation to truly equalize.

Any damage done by PS3's slow start was offset by the RRoD debacle, and even then people still believed PS3 would pull ahead in a year or two. If you recall, it was at the end of 2007 (or was it the start of 2008?) that Pachter made the prediction that in 2008, coinciding with the launch of GTAIV, PS3 would pull ahead in terms of monthly sales and never go back. Many people shared that sentiment, and it certainly affected their purchase decisions. Only later did the faith in the PlayStation brand fully erode (in the US, of course, which proved to be a very significant market).

So let's agree to disagree here. I really hope we get to put out opinions to the test later next year.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You're seemingly forgetting that Xbox 360 launched a whole year before PS3, and that's when the most damage to Xbox was made. Its first year could've been much better, but Sony did a good job of positioning PS3 as a wait-for-it platform. Only at E3 2006 did things really start to fall apart for Sony, and it took far longer than that for the third party software situation to truly equalize.

Any damage done by PS3's slow start was offset by the RRoD debacle, and even then people still believed PS3 would pull ahead in a year or two. If you recall, it was at the end of 2007 (or was it the start of 2008?) that Pachter made the prediction that in 2008, coinciding with the launch of GTAIV, PS3 would pull ahead in terms of monthly sales and never go back. Many people shared that sentiment, and it certainly affected their purchase decisions. Only later did the faith in the PlayStation brand fully erode (in the US, of course, which proved to be a very significant market).

So let's agree to disagree here. I really hope we get to put out opinions to the test later next year.

360s were in short supply world wide even six months after launch, so the ps3 hype factor certainly didnt diminish demand, when 360 finally did get back in regular supply sony announced the 599 usd price and it was all downhill from there. 360 trounced ps3 world wide during its first holiday season a few short months after supply got readily back in stock. PS3 didn't start reliably exceeding 360 world wide until 2009 or so.

There really was no point during which the ps2's success had substantial bearing early on in the generation in Sony's favor. Also, lets not forget that Xbox actually was gaining momentum versus the ps2 in the US thanks to Halo - Xbox even outsold PS2 during some pretty busy holiday months, so if anything Microsoft probably had more of an advantage in the US transitioning to the next generation.

I also don't think RROD had a major positive impact for the PS3. May have even inflated 360 numbers. And when MS admitted their problem they extended the warranty for three years...it sucked for MS financially but I don't think they took too bad of a competitive hit.

It'll be interesting to see what happens, but Microsoft is also facing a challenge of XBL's superior feature set being matched, no Halo or Gears at launch, declining popularity of Halo in favor of CoD. Gears was hugely influential early on for 360 -- they will need something similar to that next gen just to repeat the same momentum they had in the US with the 360. I'm doubtful they'll have anything quite that special.

 

[Metallix87]

MS hasn't shown that its able to appeal the masses outside the US/UK as Sony/Nintendo have. And its been two generations. The sizeable lead they have built in the US is nice but as it stands now, its still going to be only good enough for third place. And this is by far the weakest console sony has released. A relatively good to strong PS4 could certainly even things back up in the states, which means MS would lose almost half their legs.

I actually think Microsoft is going to be even more aggressive next gen, and push hard to take away even more exclusives from Sony's system. That seems to be Sony's biggest weak point: third party exclusives. They more or less rely on them to sell their system in the long run, since of their franchises only Gran Turismo seems to be able to move a ton of systems by itself.

Microsoft has been moving very strategically this past generation to establish the Xbox brand as a constant in gaming, and has been able to expand their user base from the previous generation by a great amount. Their biggest weakness still remains, of course, and that's appealing to Japan.

What will change with Microsoft this coming gen? Well, I expect a much more aggressive lineup of exclusives, and I suspect ALL third party titles that appear on PS4 will also appear on Xbox 720, with few exceptions. I expect them to focus on stronger marketing campaigns in regions where they can still see major growth and expansion, such as Japan. Most importantly, I think we're going to see Microsoft pay big bucks for more major Japanese third party titles as exclusives, or at the very least timed exclusives.

You're too quick to dismiss Microsoft as "instant third place", especially given the sheer amount of damage they've done to the Playstation brand name this generation.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sony hasn't relied on third party exclusives at all this gen (outside of mgs4 one off) and Microsoft would have to pay substantial amounts of money to secure third party exclusives.

The third party exclusive will be just as dead next gen as it is this gen. A non factor.

And MS pushing big in Japan? Not going to happen. They've basically given up on that region. Remember all those early 360 exclusive Japanese games? Microsoft hasn't pushed that in years.

 

[Metallix87]

Sony hasn't relied on third party exclusives at all this gen (outside of mgs4 one off)

Exactly, and look what's happened to their status in the market: They went from undisputed king to third place, and the Playstation brand name is in shambles.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Exactly, and look what's happened to their status in the market: They went from undisputed king to third place, and the Playstation brand name is in shambles.

They'll be in second place in a few short months, and will have sold more consoles than Microsoft has in a much shorter period of time. Their position in the market was less to do about exclusives and more to do about price.

Diminished, yes, but that's hardly what I'd call "in shambles", unless you also believe the Xbox brand is even more "in shambles".

 

[DieH@rd]

Sony will go fist in late 2013 [probably only in Japan], and then both Sony and MS will release their consoles in the west simultaneously in Feb/March.

 

[TheOddOne]

It'll be interesting to see what happens, but Microsoft is also facing a challenge of XBL's superior feature set being matched, no Halo or Gears at launch, declining popularity of Halo in favor of CoD. Gears was hugely influential early on for 360 -- they will need something similar to that next gen just to repeat the same momentum they had in the US with the 360. I'm doubtful they'll have anything quite that special.

Uhm, you can pretty much say that about any of the console manufactures. Often I see you type of comments laced with more of what how you personally want it to perform then an actual general realistic observation or analysis of the market.

I am often amazed at the “on par” argument, because if that is what people really are looking for next generation then you either have a really low bar on expectations or you think that is good enough. People should expect more and wanting more then on par features.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sony will go fist in late 2013 [probably only in Japan], and then both Sony and MS will release their consoles in the west simultaneously in Feb/March.

Given how this gen turned out, I'd say they should release in Japan last and US first, whatever it takes.

 

[Rootbeer]

If they launch at the same time (give or take a few months) all hell is going to break loose. I hope they both have some great exclusives lined up.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Uhm, you can pretty much say that about any of the console manufactures. Often I see you type of comments laced with more of what how you personally want it to perform then an actual general realistic observation or analysis of the market.

I am often amazed at the “on par” argument, because if that is what people really are looking for next generation then you either have a really low bar on expectations or you think that is good enough. People should expect more and wanting more then on par features.

Not sure what you're suggesting but I love halo and hate CoD.

Features will obviously expand next gen but there's only so much that truly matters. Vita already has everything anyone really needs, outside of maybe video chat which could be big next gen. Vita already allows you to browse the store, pull up a website, etc while in a game.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Exactly, and look what's happened to their status in the market: They went from undisputed king to third place, and the Playstation brand name is in shambles.

What does that have anything to do with their place in the market?

The Xbox 360 has a sterling reputation because it has exclusive Call of Duty DLC?

What kind of silly causation is that?

Sony launched a $600 console a year after its primary competitor with a troublesome hardware architecture. Those are real potential reasons for their current third place standing. It's hard to convince people to buy a $600 console to play the sequel to Call of Duty 2 when they already own a 360 because they wanted to play Call of Duty 2. You can eplace Call of Duty with another popular serial title which had its fanbase jump from the PS2 to the 360 rather than the PS3 due to the price and release advantage.

 

[Metallix87]

They'll be in second place in a few short months, and will have sold more consoles than Microsoft has in a much shorter period of time. Their position in the market was less to do about exclusives and more to do about price.

Diminished, yes, but that's hardly what I'd call "in shambles", unless you also believe the Xbox brand is even more "in shambles".

I'll make a few points before I go to bed:

1.) "They'll be in second place in a few short months"? I've actually heard that said for months on countless sites and boards. Fact is, if and when it happens, it will have taken Sony well over six years to do it, and that's with help from a lot of bad PR for Microsoft from the RRoD ordeal.

2.) PS3 dropped within range of Xbox 360 years ago, so if it has more to do with the price of the system, then general logic would dictate that Sony's PS3 would've outsold the 360 month after month in all regions. That wasn't the case, and in several regions it still struggles to keep up with 360 in monthly sales figures.

3.) I would call the PS brand in shambles, for sure. PS3 lost them a ton of money and caused them to lose their iron grip on the console market. PSP showed that they didn't have what it takes to defeat Nintendo in the handheld market, and the Vita is an outright joke right now that is, for all intents and purposes, irrelevant to consumers. This is a horrible state for Sony to be in, considering what they once were, just seven years ago. I'd argue that it's a comparable fall to the one Nintendo suffered with the Nintendo 64.

4.) The Xbox brand is most certainly NOT in shambles. The system has gained a great deal of momentum in the market over it's predecessor. It has ushered in the FPS as the dominant genre in gaming at present with strong franchises like Halo and Call of Duty. Kinect has done wonders to keep moving hardware, while also appealing to new demographics. If anything, Microsoft's mistake was that first-party support for 360 dried up a year or so ago, likely as almost all of their teams are hard at work on Xbox 720 content for that system's first year on the market. Microsoft's Xbox brand is in great shape, and I suspect it'll be looking even better next generation, when Microsoft comes out of the gate swinging.

What does that have anything to do with their place in the market?

The Xbox 360 has a sterling reputation because it has exclusive Call of Duty DLC?

What kind of silly causation is that?

Sony launched a $600 console a year after its primary competitor with a trouble hardware architecture. Those are real potential reasons for their current third place standing. It's hard to convince people to buy a $600 console to play the sequel to Call of Duty 2 when they already own a 360 because they wanted to play Call of Duty 2. You can eplace Call of Duty with another popular serial title which had its fanbase jump from the PS2 to the 360 rather than the PS3 due to the price and release advantage.

You pretty much prove my point for me: Sony doesn't have the exclusives needed to sell their system, even after dropping the price to within range of the Xbox 360. That exclusive DLC for Call of Duty matters a whole lot more than you think, given how difficult it has been for Sony to coax 360 users with offers of free online multiplayer and now performance parity with the 360 versions. It's not working because Sony needs exclusive content to entice those customers into moving their interests onto Sony platforms. I totally understand that games like Uncharted and Heavy Rain are review darlings, but they're not the content that those gamers are looking for overall. Mind you, I'm not saying I know what the right exclusives are to sell Sony's platforms. For all I know, Sony will have a mega hit early on next-gen, and manage to decimate the Microsoft fan base going into next gen. Heck, even Nintendo could do that. It's possible. Right now, though, I wouldn't bet on it, and I suspect we'll see the user base grow as Live subscribers stay on board going into next gen, and manage to get more family and friends on board, especially as more features are added to Live's Gold subscription moving forward.

 

[iamshadowlark]

I actually think Microsoft is going to be even more aggressive next gen, and push hard to take away even more exclusives from Sony's system. That seems to be Sony's biggest weak point: third party exclusives. They more or less rely on them to sell their system in the long run, since of their franchises only Gran Turismo seems to be able to move a ton of systems by itself.

Microsoft has been moving very strategically this past generation to establish the Xbox brand as a constant in gaming, and has been able to expand their user base from the previous generation by a great amount. Their biggest weakness still remains, of course, and that's appealing to Japan.
What will change with Microsoft this coming gen? Well, I expect a much more aggressive lineup of exclusives, and I suspect ALL third party titles that appear on PS4 will also appear on Xbox 720, with few exceptions. I expect them to focus on stronger marketing campaigns in regions where they can still see major growth and expansion, such as Japan. Most importantly, I think we're going to see Microsoft pay big bucks for more major Japanese third party titles as exclusives, or at the very least timed exclusives.

You're too quick to dismiss Microsoft as "instant third place", especially given the sheer amount of damage they've done to the Playstation brand name this generation.

MS was only able to expand in a couple places though, which is what the problem is. Xbox is still way to american of a product. It limits their demographic. Japan isn't their only problem at all. Outside of america, Xbox hasn't did any damage to Sony. They've moved some 120million consoles since 2006 and counting.


I haven't dismissed MS as "instant third place" but there is certainly something to be said about their failure to appeal to foreign markets and how much it limits their scope. There's only so much ground they are gonna gain in the US and they're more likely to lose a dominant advantage like what they hold in the US than gain even more.


Edit: Oh wow, the PS brand is in shambles?

 

[Spike]

I think they both realize that they need those lucrative holiday sales, so I think they will both launch at the end of this year.

 

[Metallix87]

MS was only able to expand in a couple places though, which is what the problem is. Xbox is still way to american of a product. It limits their demographic. Japan isn't their only problem at all. Outside of america, Xbox hasn't did any damage to Sony. They've moved some 120million consoles since 2006 and counting.

Oh no? I suspect Microsoft has done more damage to Sony in Europe than you think, and that Microsoft has a decent shot of expanding their market share even more next gen with the Kinect available at launch.

 

[TheOddOne]

Not sure what you're suggesting but I love halo and hate CoD.

Features will obviously expand next gen but there's only so much that truly matters. Vita already has everything anyone really needs, outside of maybe video chat which could be big next gen. Vita already allows you to browse the store, pull up a website, etc while in a game.

Let’s say arguments often glorify one party and downplay the other. It’s hard to take somebody serious, because it doesn’t feel like they look objectively at the situation. For example, I can't take REMEMBER CITADEL serious half the time.

Truth be told, I feel that none of the console manufactures are ready or a sure bet to “win” next generation. What people think will be systems sellers will be the most unlikely stuff, and I don’t think it will be games for most part. All manufactures are pretty much starting from scratch and nothing is really proved, even most established franchises.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Oh no? I suspect Microsoft has done more damage to Sony in Europe than you think, and that Microsoft has a decent shot of expanding their market share even more next gen with the Kinect available at launch.

Do you have something objective that says this, or is it just a "gut feeling"?

 

[Metallix87]

Do you have something objective that says this, or is it just a "gut feeling"?

Sales in Europe, last I heard, were still reasonable strong, even if not at PS3's level. Certainly it's sold much more in that region than it's predecessor, even factoring out the U.K., wouldn't you agree?

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Oh no? I suspect Microsoft has done more damage to Sony in Europe than you think, and that Microsoft has a decent shot of expanding their market share even more next gen with the Kinect available at launch.

MS did surprisingly small amount of damage in EU concidering PS3 launched there in 2007. PS brand is still very strong over here.

I think both have good starting points for next gen. Both have established a big install base and both have managed to get great support for the platforms which will continue in the coming year before next gen hits. I get the feeling both have gained much goodwill from the customers and that helps a lot when they have to sell the new hardware. I believe this is what will come to bite Nintendo in the ass when they left Wii for dead and the casual audience will not be coming back in drowes unless they can invent something akin Wii Sports. Sony and MS don't have to invent anything and still have a very safe starting point if they can provide the hardcore and CoD casuals satisfying hardware with reasonable price.

I believe the biggest reason that will ensure a similar balance of this gen is XBL. Microsoft will have hard time getting people satisfyed in their PS3s to pay for live gold. But as some have said it also is their biggest advantage since even if PSN community will play a part to getting PS3 owners going for PS4 I believe live will do it even better for 360->Durango.