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Will the next generation be able to render this level of CLOTHING/HAIR simulation?

LittleAngryDog

LittleAngryDog

Banned
Pay special attention to the first and second video. Look at how clothes and hair strands react to physics. Until now no game has been able to reproduce this fidelity of hair and fabrics in real time. Of course we already see games with textures, animations and other effects far superior. But there are some CGI elements from 2005 that were NOT achieved by the current games. How difficult is it to do this? More processing? More GPUs? More polygons? Or more dedication from the developers?



 
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There are some skyrim mods that add HDT hair and ...other physics and my understanding is that you need a really strong computer to combine a lot of hdt physics, especially for them to apply to multiple npcs. CG movies have the luxury of predictability and not having to account for what might happen so maybe it's why it's doable in a controlled environment.
 
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CG will always be ahead, it seems, because they are made to follow a scripted path. With player input there are so many variablesin graphics and animation. Maybe someday.
 
DeliciousDoc said:
There are some skyrim mods that add HDT hair and ...other physics and my understanding is that you need a really strong computer to combine a lot of hdt physics, especially for them to apply to multiple npcs. CG movies have the luxury of predictability and not having to account for what might happen so maybe it's why it's doable in a controlled environment.
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I've been waiting to see something like this for years.
 
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Games will never match the fidelity of vfx/pre-rendered cg, at least not in the same generation. Though real time cloth, hair etc will definitely improve. I guess it depends on the gpu/cpu combo of future consoles
 
I think you might be discounting how long each frame of that video took to render and how many machines they probably had running to render each frame. You are asking if a single machine in the near future can do the work of several hours in a renderfarm multiple times a second.

From the final fantasy spirits within wiki:
A render farm consisting of 960 workstations was tasked with rendering each of the film's 141,964 frames. It took a staff of 200 about four years to complete The Spirits Within.
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The film consists of 141,964 frames, with each frame taking an average of 90 minutes to render.
Click to expand...
 
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Some of that hair is pretty stiff.

FFXV (to keep it in the series) already looks better imo

Comrades with updated hair:
giphy.gif
(a little TOO much imo)

SP with previous hair version (the newer versions still have the old style even tho the animals are updated):
tumblr_p6mni3qkVS1wzb0pfo7_r1_500.gif
(Sorry for filter couldnt find a better one with lots of wind to see it more)

Next step.
tumblr_os61axPCUH1vkm7byo3_540.gif
 
John Day said:
CG will always be ahead, it seems, because they are made to follow a scripted path. With player input there are so many variablesin graphics and animation. Maybe someday.
Click to expand...

Also CG is happy with multiple seconds per frame while console gamers want a thirtieth of a second per frame or less... when you have at least 30x more budget per frame you stay ahead quite easily :).
 
I'd settle for games without clipping, but next-gen will probably still have plenty of that. I realize it's a hard problem, but it's so instantly immersion-breaking.
 
Rise of the tomb raider does hair for lara pretty close If not better than advent children IMO
 
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John Day said:
CG will always be ahead, it seems, because they are made to follow a scripted path. With player input there are so many variablesin graphics and animation. Maybe someday.
Click to expand...

I agree, totally, that this is the primary challenge. People get hung up on sheer power and forget that the primary edge older CGI has is a lack of variables. Easy to render one scripted movement...but have cloth account for a huge variety of movements and still retain a compatible/fluid appearance, has to be very challenging.
 
Resident Evil and Rise of Tomb Raider have cool hair. Why is it so hard to do cool hair, isn't it just one or two math equation for each hair and thousands of hairs?
 
We are generations away from pre-rendered fur/hair in realtime.

Until they can actually start using a smaller primitive to represent hair (i.e. front-facing strips) that can render pretty fast with a good shader that responds to lighting and ambient occlusion, I don't see this kind of power arriving even in the next 5yrs.
 
the movie kind of old..current gen there already tons of game tech nowdays suprass the visual fidelity, except the higher resolution of textures stuff etc.We currently on point where realtime look good as prerendered..some game like Order 1886 even looks like cgi

Next gen will be wild..we might get cgi close looks to realtime game, or atleast Order 1886 level

regarding physic, with next gen hardware,especially jump from shitty jaguar cpu into zen 2 cpu surely will allow devs to do crazier things..remember Nathan Drake's chest hair? imagine what naughty dog could do next gen, something current gen not able to do
 
You can't compare a CG anything to any realtime rendering. It's just so overwhelming it's not even funny. I brought in a single low res model and all the textures (without compression) that was on that model from a prototype CG movie and it crashed my 2080Ti @ 11G of VRAM. That's a STATIC model with nothing else. It's not even close.
 
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Kumomeme said:
the movie kind of old..current gen there already tons of game tech nowdays suprass the visual fidelity, except the higher resolution of textures stuff etc.We currently on point where realtime look good as prerendered..some game like Order 1886 even looks like cgi
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This is not true.

Next gen will be wild..we might get cgi close looks to realtime game, or atleast Order 1886 level
Click to expand...

The Order level is already a thing. But don't expect CG - actually you shouldn't expect CG for several generations.

regarding physic, with next gen hardware,especially jump from shitty jaguar cpu into zen 2 cpu surely will allow devs to do crazier things..remember Nathan Drake's chest hair? imagine what naughty dog could do next gen, something current gen not able to do
Click to expand...

Nathan Drake's chest hair is pretty trivial to implement and it was in a cutscene. It's not the type of real dynamics like in movies.
 
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makaveli60 said:
Wow, now that looks nextgen.
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That hair looks wrong when animated. It's too stuck together. CG hair would look like the real world hair physics with each strand being rendered and with proper collision detection instead of a clump.
 
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VFXVeteran said:
The Order level is already a thing. But don't expect CG - actually you shouldn't expect CG for several generations.
Click to expand...

well atleast :
Next gen will be wild..we might get cgi close looks to realtime game, or atleast Order 1886 level
Click to expand...


atleast close to older cgi movie..aside stuff that prerendered movie had advantages with stronger raw power during rendering like textures quality etc.
 
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VFXVeteran said:
That hair looks wrong when animated. It's too stuck together. CG hair would look like the real world hair physics with each strand being rendered and with proper collision detection instead of a clump.
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I'm not sure what your point is. It still looks miles better than anything we've seen in any game.
 
I really hope there is more focus on higher resolution and framerate in the next generation rather than trying to wow people with complex simulations. Photorealism only goes so far if it's upscaled 720p that is struggling at 30 fps.
 
Good rule of thumb: will next gen be able to...

No.

The thing about hair and cloth simulation that makes it look and flow realistically is it's a Simulation. It's collision will be calculated, as well as its weight and even fabric roughness. These sort of things are easy to do in an offline render because you don't have to worry about the cost of a scene, you just render it.

Real time though? This shits expensive. VERY. In isolated cases it's not too bad but once you have multiples and heaven forbid those multiples are self colliding AND colliding with each other...

oh boy...

Think of it this way, would you rather have good but not perfect looking hair and clothing? And a stable frame rate and gorgeous world? Or would you rather have perfect hair and clothing, but tanking the performance and a barren small world?

Choice is yours.
 
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Next big step for gaming will be achieving real life like physics,

that's gonna be the real game changer as it will add to gameplay way more than fancy graphics,

in fact, physics are what they should really focus on in a videogame,

leave graphics for movies that is where it really matters but you see how superficial and shallow we are,

a videogame is supossed to play good but instead we demand for it to look good.
 
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Advent Children wasn't a good case for cloth or hair simulation.
Pretty sure Spirits Within was superior in both cases. (Budget was obviously huge in comparison.)

We should see quite nice hair and clothes stuff next gen, tools are getting better and so are the tricks used for rendering.
VFXVeteran said:
Nathan Drake's chest hair is pretty trivial to implement and it was in a cutscene. It's not the type of real dynamics like in movies.
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Yup, Naughty Dog loves to do vertex shader tricks to replicate look of physics simulations, really simple yet effective.
 
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