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Will there ever be 32- or 64-bit throwback games?
- Thread starter ScOULaris
- Start date
Azure Dream
Member
I'm currently playing Vagrant Story on psp go, and i was thinking that ps1 graphics has a particular charm.
I think the more consoles became able to replicate "cgi" graphics, the less they had this charm. 3d models are so low on PSX that they have an abstract style, in shapes and all.. They just can't imitate the shape of statues or people, so they simplify it, thus make them symbolic and artistic.
But once you can have more polys like with the PS2, you can simulate complex shapes, and everything look like cheap cgi. Of course, you can still be surrealistic if you want, but better technologies tends to bring desire of realisms, then ugliness happens. Cause everything looks ugly if referenced from real things, whether each hardware limitations can find aesthetic maturity in symbolism (Wind Waker, Another World, Mario World, Vagrant Story, Rez, FF VI, such games don't really grow old for me)
I think the more consoles became able to replicate "cgi" graphics, the less they had this charm. 3d models are so low on PSX that they have an abstract style, in shapes and all.. They just can't imitate the shape of statues or people, so they simplify it, thus make them symbolic and artistic.
But once you can have more polys like with the PS2, you can simulate complex shapes, and everything look like cheap cgi. Of course, you can still be surrealistic if you want, but better technologies tends to bring desire of realisms, then ugliness happens. Cause everything looks ugly if referenced from real things, whether each hardware limitations can find aesthetic maturity in symbolism (Wind Waker, Another World, Mario World, Vagrant Story, Rez, FF VI, such games don't really grow old for me)
Personally, I feel gaming needs it's own Renaissance. My brother, who isn't a gamer (but grew up playing Atari, NES and all of that stuff) has said for years that the logical step is to go backwards, and to rediscover what made gaming so great in the first place. How much more detailed do graphics have to be, until we (eventually) get the point where fantasy and reality are obscured? How much more online functionality can you add until it's just another social networking platform while making games an afterthought? Motion controls? Just a mere substitution and alternate method of interaction. Instead of pressing A, you swing the controller to do whatever A would normally do. Few motion based games go beyond simple gestures.
It would be really interesting to see more developers attempt to make 8, 16, 32 and even 64 bit games, with more focus on the game play and story, instead of visual gimmicks and other features that have nothing to do with gaming itself. But that won't happen. There's no money to be made in it :/ Fuck...
It would be really interesting to see more developers attempt to make 8, 16, 32 and even 64 bit games, with more focus on the game play and story, instead of visual gimmicks and other features that have nothing to do with gaming itself. But that won't happen. There's no money to be made in it :/ Fuck...
I have to give you props for bringing up FFIV DS. I think that game is the best example I've seen of a gorgeous low poly game. The models just work and are animated incredibly well. Honestly, my only complaint is that the remake wasn't a little more liberal with altering locales. If they had done that, maybe the environments would have been less boring and we could have gotten some nice pre-rendered ones in their place.
Why would you do that? said:
It's true that until we hit photorealism, games with stylized graphics will always age better than games that try to be realistic, but what happens when we get different games with similar art styles on different hardware generations?
What if Capcom ever made an Okami 2 for the PS3 with the same art style but on much more powerful tech? Would that make Okami look outdated? I haven't played Tales of Vesperia yet, but you could also question how Abyss and Symphonia hold up visually after that game. What about King of Fighters XII compared with the entire rest of the series previous?
I dont think so, because that era of games looked pretty ugly. At least 3d 32-Bit PS1 era games. I wouldnt say that nearly as much about 3d PS2 era games.
I never understand how people gaming in the late 90's were able to tolerate the ugly ass games of that era. It's not that those games have "aged" bad. They were ugly to begin with. When people were fapping over the "graphics" in FF7 and other 3d games of that era, I was pining and bemoaning the loss of the awesomeness that was 2d 16-bit.
I never understand how people gaming in the late 90's were able to tolerate the ugly ass games of that era. It's not that those games have "aged" bad. They were ugly to begin with. When people were fapping over the "graphics" in FF7 and other 3d games of that era, I was pining and bemoaning the loss of the awesomeness that was 2d 16-bit.
jump_button
Banned
the art style not the same as 8-bit 16-bit it harder to do 32 64 style when they are more or less the same as games today how they play just looking better now
Love of god some one make a rpg like ff9 in HD
Love of god some one make a rpg like ff9 in HD
practice02
Banned
I feel you see it on pc indie games a lot.
There are lots of games like the generation you call 32 bit on XBLA - there are a could of FPS that are right out of that era in particular.
THing is if you have a budget it's pretty easy to make it to PS2 level or above so they tend to.
Remakes are going to happen for that generation as the people who played them as kids get to positions of power in game companies. It's an ever growing spiral - I expect 3makes of the original Pokemon RBG/FireRedLeafGreen games on 3DS for example.
THing is if you have a budget it's pretty easy to make it to PS2 level or above so they tend to.
Remakes are going to happen for that generation as the people who played them as kids get to positions of power in game companies. It's an ever growing spiral - I expect 3makes of the original Pokemon RBG/FireRedLeafGreen games on 3DS for example.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
I want a new Banjo Kazooie game with the same level of visuals as the N64 games. The game just looks right with N64 graphics!
jump_button said:the art style not the same as 8-bit 16-bit it harder to do 32 64 style when they are more or less the same as games today how they play just looking better now
Love of god some one make a rpg like ff9 in HD
Is it sad that outside of resolution, I still think Final Fantasy 9 is the best looking game Square has ever made?
wind_steaker
Member
I came into this thread to hate on it really, but I've changed my mind - I actually love games with "simplistic" styles, what I really hate is the blur filters and the framerates from that era.
AdventureRacing
Member
Nuclear Muffin said:
The 64 is my favourite console and i love both banjo games, i also hate playing the nostalgia card. I just can't agree with that.
Banjo looks absolutely fantastic on the 360. If you had played a banjo platformer with graphics like the on the 360 version and then saw the seqeul with graphics like the 64 version there is no way you would think it was better.
I'll agree that there is a certain charm to banjos graphics (and many old games) but in banjos specific case i think you can keep that charm without resorting to going back to 64 level graphics.
_Alkaline_
Member
The thing about 8-bit is there is nothing inherently wrong or distracting about it. It's an appealing art-style that came with no real problems. The only notable issue that arose was whenever a developer tried to venture into '3D' perspectives or just bite off more than they could chew, which is something 8-bit simply wasn't up to at the time.
With the 32/64 bit era though, games were dogged by low resolution textures, low polygon geometry, slowdown and constantly low framerates, fog and other issues detrimental to the presentation. Thankfully I'm not a graphics whore and can still appreciate the quality of these games today, but it's absolutely an issue nonetheless.
8-bit throwback games appeal with a distinct and aesthetically pleasing presentation. The 32/64 era's is most definitely distinct, but it's not nearly as nice on the eye.
With the 32/64 bit era though, games were dogged by low resolution textures, low polygon geometry, slowdown and constantly low framerates, fog and other issues detrimental to the presentation. Thankfully I'm not a graphics whore and can still appreciate the quality of these games today, but it's absolutely an issue nonetheless.
8-bit throwback games appeal with a distinct and aesthetically pleasing presentation. The 32/64 era's is most definitely distinct, but it's not nearly as nice on the eye.
MisterHero
Super Member
Lowpoly modeling hasn't left entirely. Textures, lighting, and the various ways models can interact (animation, physics, etc.) have improved though.
In fact as draw-distance capabilities improve and we have far-off, low-res poly/textured versions of models to save graphics power, and as many current-gen games can't strive to go above 30 fps, it's like 16- and 32- graphics development never left at all (it's just in places you don't see very up close). ;p
As far as games with the aesthetic goes, I think Mega Man Legends 3DS might re-capture the PS1/N64 look of Legends 1/2.
In fact as draw-distance capabilities improve and we have far-off, low-res poly/textured versions of models to save graphics power, and as many current-gen games can't strive to go above 30 fps, it's like 16- and 32- graphics development never left at all (it's just in places you don't see very up close). ;p
As far as games with the aesthetic goes, I think Mega Man Legends 3DS might re-capture the PS1/N64 look of Legends 1/2.
Yes there was stuff wrong with 8-bit. There was things like flickering, tearing and slowdown. I think Mega Man 9 even allows you to simulate such an experience._Alkaline_ said:
MisterHero said:
I tend to look back on the 32/64-bit generation as an interim generation, that is to say a time when developers were adjusting to new desires in video games, most notably polygonal graphics and CD storage capacity. I think the current generation is also an "interim" one, where developers are adjusting to the new desires for High Definition, motion control, online modes for everything, and now stereoscopic gaming. From my memory the PS2 generation was far less unevenly developed than the one before or following it and I expect the next one will be similar.
sixteen-bit
Member
Shinkuu Tatsumaki!whitehawk said:
SP is going for a more 16-bit throwback (despite being obviously more proficient technically)
old manatee
Banned
Anth0ny said:
3D N64 games are so ugly that they almost circle back around to being beautifully abstract.
Gameboy415
Member
Well Super Mario Galaxy 2 has that one throwback stage....I guess that counts?
Big Papa Husker
Member
999 on DS does.DangerStepp said:
cj_iwakura
Member
Despera said:
It fit Persona really well.
All three of them.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
jump_button said:the art style not the same as 8-bit 16-bit it harder to do 32 64 style when they are more or less the same as games today how they play just looking better now
Love of god some one make a rpg like ff9 in HD
Fuckity THIS!
StarEye said:
You are totally right.
ds troll forestalled by people actually liking ds 3d
i dunno -- i'm fond of that era of gaming, and i can appreciate the graphics for what they are, but i have a hard time seeing them as a style the way nesesque pixel art is a style. flat shaded polys have a retrofuturistic charm, though, would definitely like to see more games using those
i dunno -- i'm fond of that era of gaming, and i can appreciate the graphics for what they are, but i have a hard time seeing them as a style the way nesesque pixel art is a style. flat shaded polys have a retrofuturistic charm, though, would definitely like to see more games using those
AndyMoogle
Member
Resonance of Fate on Xbox 360/PS3 does.DangerStepp said:
I would so dig a 1080p Panzer Dragoon Zwei or a modern Quake World running in today's computing/gaming platforms. As in turn off the bloom and just see what would happen for yesterday's 3dfx-based graphics running on modern GPU crunchers!
Bring on Starblade, Cyber Sled, Virtual On: Operation Moongate, or someone out there make Windows 98 drivers to run on modern hardware
Or if Nintendo has the cajones to do Virtual Console 2 on NewGenerationNintendo by actually speeding up N64 and GC/Wii games like modern PCs. Or please sell me a Retrode since I am working again!
Bring on Starblade, Cyber Sled, Virtual On: Operation Moongate, or someone out there make Windows 98 drivers to run on modern hardware
Or if Nintendo has the cajones to do Virtual Console 2 on NewGenerationNintendo by actually speeding up N64 and GC/Wii games like modern PCs. Or please sell me a Retrode since I am working again!
â Narayan
Member
It does? Where?AndyMoogle said:
I think you are wearing some powerful rose tinted glasses here. There is still a huge focus on gameplay and there are tons of games doing it. To suggest that the focus of modern games is only on visuals makes it seem as if you haven't been paying attention.
Thanks to digital downloads, we have actually seen the rebirth of retro gameplay in addition to the large blockbusters. It's a great time for gaming right now.
Uhh, where? Everything I've seen of the game was real time.
AndyMoogle
Member
I haven't actually played the game yet, but I thought it used pre-rendered backgrounds for the cities.dark10x said:
EDIT: After looking at some images I must say that some backgrounds have to be pre-rendered.
Aren't there some pre-rendered backgrounds in the latest Naruto?
This sounds like the same argument thrown to any graphical throwback game, and the answer is the same too.gimmmick said:
All the time? No. Every once in a while and in a well done manner? Sure.
I found this in the thread dementia linked to. I think it looks stylish as fuck, and would love to play a game that looked like this (theres probably something like it on the DS):
I think that VF1 ps2 remake looks great too.