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[Petrae]

I understand the sentment. The world and creatures are literally some of the most interesting designs visually and its kind of a shame that its locked off to a lot of people.

I'd try these games if they were more accessible. But I know that they're not, and there are too many other games out there to spend my gaming budget on that are.

Just reading about the difficulty-- and the perspective of the Souls community that these games are only for a select few who "get" them-- is enough to keep me away and to quell any occassional curiosity about the series that I may have.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Sure there is. Making the game more accessible to more people so more people can enjoy what they've created.

Not everyone who makes something is concerned with making it accessible. If they're making good money making the games they want to make there is really no reason to change them to appease people who want something different from what the creator wants.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I'd try these games if they were more accessible. But I know that they're not, and there are too many other games out there to spend my gaming budget on that are.

Just reading about the difficulty-- and the perspective of the Souls community that these games are only for a select few who "get" them-- is enough to keep me away and to quell any occassional curiosity about the series that I may have.

? They're no less accessible than any other RPG. In fact they have less complex systems than most and mostly just straightforward gameplay. Bloodborne in particular is super accessible. It's pretty hard at first, but nothing crazy.

 

[SDCowboy]

There two mode: on or off. Either play the game or don't. Those are the only choices you need.

I know I must sound like a jerk to people who just want to "experience" the game, but I feel pretty strongly about this so I don't care.

As a developer, they can or cannot have an easy mode for any reason they wish. It's their game. But as a consumer, to not want a more accessible mode that wouldn't change your experience at all, is nothing but selfishness, IMO. That is wanting the game your way, and only your way. It's silly.

 

[codhand]

Sometimes it feels that the only reason people don't want an easy mode existing is that they feel that playing the souls series makes them part of a spacial club and including an easy mode would bring in more people to it, making them feel less spacial.

 

[Danneee]

It will sell even better. It'll be available on all three platforms and so far the fan base increased from Demons up to Bloodborne with each iteration. Also DS3 is the first Souls game running on a new engine for PC and xbox only players, there is some thirst there.

Well, we'll see.

 

[Codeblue]

Man, going from perpetually dying and tiptoeing around to becoming skilled enough that you can play with confidence in the Souls games is one of the most satisfying things in gaming.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

I just don't understand how this request even exists really.

If you find the non boss sections hard then it isn't the games fault. Walk slow. lure enemies out one at a time and most of them can be R1 spammed to death. A few need to be taken down slightly more methodically but if you can't even get passed those then I don't know what to say. Almost every enemy can be beaten with one of these two methods.

1. Dodge behind them as they attack > spam R1
Or
2. Roll back as they attack > leap attack (tap towards + R2)

And all bosses become trivial when done in co-op so summon people.

I'm not even sure what an easy mode would change that wouldn't massively change how the game plays and feels. Do people just want to mash attack and win or something.

I remember when Jeff gerstman played it and he couldn't work out why people were saying its so hard. He was naturally doing method 1 above. It's kinda just basic game combat design isnt it?

I don't think all games should be designed to suit everyone, the same as films, books or anything really shouldn't be.

There are plenty of games out there that are super easy or have terrible hard modes and that's fine. It's how the game was designed. They shouldn't change those because some people want them to be harder.

Not all games are for everyone. It's that simple isnt it?.

 

[AmethystEnd]

Just reading about the difficulty-- and the perspective of the Souls community that these games are only for a select few who "get" them-- is enough to keep me away and to quell any occassional curiosity about the series that I may have.

I read this sentiment in every single one of these threads and it always confuses me.

Read the posts of the die hard Souls fans in here. You'll find the majority of us flat out state the games aren't that difficult if you're patient and willing to learn from your mistakes. We don't say anything about the games only being for people who "get" them; just have patience and don't get upset if you die because that's part of the game. We also encourage people to reach out for help through co-op if they need it.

Sure, there are some people who drive-by with "Git gud" posts but that's a small minority.

So where is this victim mentality coming from, exactly?

Cute. Read the above.

 

[finalflame]

I'm really happy BS like this will never happen, because FROMSoft is strong in their resolve. It's sad that there are people in this thread actually arguing for an easy mode. It's like everyone wants in on the Bloodborne party, but nobody wants to lear how to play the goddamn game or put an ounce of effort into it.

 

[Fhtagn]

Others have made this point, but every single Souls game has an easy mode, but it's built into the game itself instead of being an option you select at the start menu, which is keeping in the spirit of the rest of the game design.

One of the main easy modes is to just look up information on best strategies. The primary difficulty in these games is figuring out secrets, short cuts and ideal strategies. Beyond that, it's just a matter of executing them. The truly hard boss fights in Bloodborne are all optional.

There's no way to make the shortcuts and secrets easier without redesigning the game into handholding, which is the antithesis of the game design. Even if the combat was a breeze, the rest of the game could be baffling.

Quick early game "easy mode" suggestions: use the hunter's axe as your starting weapon, power level Vitality, learn how to gun parry by shooting the big dopes with a brick in the face when they raise their brick, feel free to watch videos that show where short cuts are (because you can get from lamps to the boss in under a minute in all cases...) Once you have some insight, summon people and also learn the game better by letting yourself be summoned and tagging along, replaying areas.

I have a couple older, casual gamer friends who have beaten Dark Souls and Bloodborne just fine. They aren't particularly good at games. One of them hadn't played a game before Dark Souls in years, maybe even a decade. (Played it on his wife's PS3.) They got through it and loved it. These games are in a sense about an illusion of difficulty. They are designed around making you feel like you accomplished something. Putting an explicit easy mode would wreck that.

 

[Kusagari]

Sure there is. Making the game more accessible to more people so more people can enjoy what they've created.

Do you think Miyazaki and the rest of From are somehow ignorant to how hard people find these games? Do you not think that if they wanted to put an easy mode in they would have by now?

I find it hilarious that the people wanting this have brought up selfishness, because they're the only ones being selfish. They want a developer to change their vision just so they can experience the game.

That's the height of selfishness.

 

[double jump]

This probably has been discussed already but what do you peeps want in an easy mode ?

Like what changes would you make outside of something like a pause option?

reposting so my question don't get lost in the shuffle.
Unrelated but this thread just reminded me how much demons was a breath of fresh air.

 

[SDCowboy]

Do you think Miyazaki and the rest of From are somehow ignorant to how hard people find these games? Do you not think that if they wanted to put an easy mode in they would have by now?

I find it hilarious that the people wanting this have brought up selfishness, because they're the only ones being selfish. They want a developer to change their vision just so they can experience the game.

That's the height of selfishness.

You do realize that FROM is a business, right? The consumer wanting something is not inherently selfish. At all. People need to stop making it out like FROM is some starving painter. The consumer asking for something to be added to a game is not selfishness. That's consumer feedback.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

As a developer, they can or cannot have an easy mode for any reason they wish. It's their game. But as a consumer, to not want a more accessible mode that wouldn't change your experience at all, is nothing but selfishness, IMO. That is wanting the game your way, and only your way. It's silly.

How is it my way? I didn't design the game. I'm just happen to like it the way it is. I think it is selfish that people want one of the few games with a decent budget that isn't mass market trash designed in board room to be watered down because they can't be bothered to learn how to play.

Do you think Miyazaki and the rest of From are somehow ignorant to how hard people find these games? Do you not think that if they wanted to put an easy mode in they would have by now?

I find it hilarious that the people wanting this have brought up selfishness, because they're the only ones being selfish. They want a developer to change their vision just so they can experience the game.

That's the height of selfishness.

Exactly they are the truly selfish ones. Entitled too.

 

[sn00zer]

This probably has been discussed already but what do you peeps want in an easy mode ?

Like what changes would you make outside of something like a pause option?

reposing so my question don't get lost in the shuffle.
Unrelated but this thread just reminded me how much demons was a breath of fresh air.

Honestly I dont want an easy mode.... a little bit less hard mode would be preferred, which really could simply be modifying the plethora of one/two hit boss attacks. Because really the game is actually pretty doable for most people outside of the boss battles.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

Honestly I dont want an easy mode.... a little bit less hard mode would be preferred, which really could simply be modifying the plethora of one/two hit boss attacks. Because really the game is actually pretty doable for most people outside of the boss battles.

If you stack vitality early I don't think anything in the main game can 1 shot you. Don't think it can 2 shot you either.

Just rush 30 vitality and then get it go 40 a bit later. Tons of health.

 

[TouchMyBox]

As a developer, they can or cannot have an easy mode for any reason they wish. It's their game. But as a consumer, to not want a more accessible mode that wouldn't change your experience at all, is nothing but selfishness, IMO. That is wanting the game your way, and only your way. It's silly.

It's the same way I feel when friends download and watch cams of the latest visually spectacular hollywood blockbuster. It's a feeling of sadness that someone you care for only had the chance to experience something awesome for the first time once, and they blew it.

 

[SDCowboy]

How is it my way? I didn't design the game. I'm just happen to like it the way it is. I think it is selfish that people want one of the few games with a decent budget that isn't mass market trash designed in board room to be watered down because they can't be bothered to learn how to play.

My version of an easy mode isn't watering down the game though. At least I don't think so. IMO, just having a bonfire outside the boss is not watering the game down for those that want or need a slightly more approachable game.

 

[codhand]

act as if adding boss checkpoints would ruin a game brehs

 

[MisterShine]

Just reading about the difficulty-- and the perspective of the Souls community that these games are only for a select few who "get" them-- is enough to keep me away and to quell any occassional curiosity about the series that I may have.

Grab the PC version of Dark Souls 1 and a trainer program from google. That was how I first got into Souls and it was bloody fantastic all the way through. The environments sound art enemies combat bosses music atmosphere NPCs ..... just fantastic stuff. People who haven't played with cheats don't understand how little the difficulty really plays into just how damn excellent of a series it is. I never played 2 or Bloodborne with cheats (obviously w/BB) but the challenge didn't add that much tbh.

 

[AmethystEnd]

act as if adding boss checkpoints would ruin a game brehs

Act as if removing the fear of losing souls to a boss doesn't undermine/water down the risk vs reward system that the developers purposely designed, breh.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

You do realize that FROM is a business, right? The consumer wanting something is not inherently selfish. At all.

That really depends on how you see video game developers. I see them as artists before a business. You could make that same argument for any artist looking to sell their work.

Asking an artist to change their vision just so you will enjoy it more is a pretty selfish move. Sure, some artists would listen, but as someone else said to you, these are artists that are looking for more sales. If they want to do that, that's fine, but wanting an artist to change their vision solely so you can enjoy it, even if that change takes away from the artists original intent, is a pretty selfish move.

It's no different then walking up to an abstract artist and saying "Man, you know if you painted more fruit and nature scenes more people would probably like your work."

 

[Kusagari]

You do realize that FROM is a business, right? The consumer wanting something is not inherently selfish. At all. People need to stop making it out like FROM is some starving painter.

You're right. They're not a starving painter because the Souls games already sell millions.

It's a foolish thing to assume that every developer will change a game and just throw in an easy mode to sell 5 mill instead of 3.

From is already successful at what they do. You just assume they'll change their vision because of, what, greed?

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

My version of an easy mode isn't watering down the game though. At least I don't think so. IMO, just having a bonfire outside the boss is not watering the game down for those that want or need a slightly more approachable game.

But that reduces the difficulty by basically nothing.

Every boss can be sprinted to, ignoring all enemies, in less than a minute.

It would save you a few seconds but the difficulty would be the same.

 

[Fhtagn]

I'd try these games if they were more accessible. But I know that they're not, and there are too many other games out there to spend my gaming budget on that are.

Just reading about the difficulty-- and the perspective of the Souls community that these games are only for a select few who "get" them-- is enough to keep me away and to quell any occassional curiosity about the series that I may have.

This is why i really hate the "prepare to die" marketing; these games are challenging but so rewarding and using the difficulty as the marketing message makes people think they are some kind of impossible "I wanna be the guy" bullshit, when really, they are just challenging, and rewarding as hell.

There's a toxic segment of the souls fandom that leans in to the "git gud" meme too hard. But know that most of us don't think like that.

 

[Kudo]

I hated Dark Souls the first 2 hours but after that I just fell in love and been hooked to DeS/DaS/Borne after that. It's no mystery that these games have higher learning curve than most games nowadays, which is part of the appeal. There is no other series that "respects" the player like these.
If you're having problems learning the rules, there is no shame in using co-op. I personally would say that don't summon people to your game but help other people that have problems and after that you can try to beat it solo because that's how I get biggest enjoyment.
Take some time to learn and you can definitely beat everything, these games are no way near impossible but challenging enough to give you that rush, that's why people like them.

 

[Newtype-001]

My version of an easy mode isn't watering down the game though. At least I don't think so. IMO, just having a bonfire outside the boss is not watering the game down for those that want or need a slightly more approachable game.

That directly affects game design.
Respawning outside of bosses almost completely negates the purpose of losing souls giving a much lower sense of fear and risk.

 

[AmethystEnd]

But that reduces the difficulty by basically nothing.

Every boss can be sprinted to, ignoring all enemies, in less than a minute.

It would save you a few seconds but the difficulty would be the same.

Not exactly. As I've pointed out, a bonfire outside the boss room reduces the fear of losing to a boss to zero. There's not a single boss in any Souls game that can kill you before you can grab your souls, unless you run off a ledge or fall into a hole.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

My version of an easy mode isn't watering down the game though. At least I don't think so. IMO, just having a bonfire outside the boss is not watering the game down for those that want or need a slightly more approachable game.

But shortcuts to bosses already exist in the game. Why does it need to be watered down to a checkpoint right outside of the fight? You are suggesting a fix that isn't needed. Did you know that every level has shortcuts that basically do what are suggesting, just not as blatanlty? You still have to put in the effort to find these shortcuts, but they are not exactly hard to find.

 

[thabiz]

I'm fucking dying at the fact that you're selfish for wanting a difficulty option.


FUCKING DYING

 

[SDCowboy]

That really depends on how you see video game developers. I see them as artists before a business. You could make that same argument for any artist looking to sell their work.

Asking an artist to change their vision just so you will enjoy it more is a pretty selfish move. Sure, some artists would listen, but as someone else said to you, these are artists that are looking for more sales. If they want to do that, that's fine, but wanting an artist to change their vision solely so you can enjoy it, even if that change takes away from the artists original intent, is a pretty selfish move.

It's no different then walking up to an abstract artist and saying "Man, you know if you painted more fruit and nature scenes more people would probably like your work."

You can see them however you want, but they're a business. One that makes a mass produced item sold in retail. The consumer asking for something to be added is nothing more than consumer feedback. It is art also, but it's nothing like asking a painter to change what they do, or the like. Again, it's their game, they can add or not, but it's not selfish or out of line for the consumer to want a difficulty setting.

 

[ryanofcall]

Isn't there already? I recall having to play through easy mode before I got started with New Game +

 

[SDCowboy]

That directly affects game design.
Respawning outside of bosses almost completely negates the purpose of losing souls giving a much lower sense of fear and risk.

And that's a fair, but to my point, for much of the demographic that needs the "easier" difficulty, the fear and risk would likely still very much be there.

 

[Nose Master]

Seeing a lot of weapon recommendations here, but haven't seen the goat: Saw Spear. The transform attack is absurdly fast and stacks on the damage and stun. You can stand in bosses faces and just spam transform over and over again. OR is a complete joke with this weapon. I didn't even see the second phase on a lot of bosses on my initial run because of how stupid powerful and stunny it is. (Wasn't the memory leak.) I'd be watching my roommate fighting bosses and seeing attacks I'd never seen. Didn't know Vicar healed, at all.

Also, the invul frames for the dodge and lack of stamina loss is obscene. Bloodborne *is* easy mode. If you really need to experience a game that clearly isn't for you, just spend a few hours grinding some levels. If you still get bopped after that... there's no helping you. Call in help for bosses (there are some NPCs you can use if you overlevel), etc.

 

[Hektor]

I'm fucking dying at the fact that you're selfish for wanting a difficulty option.


FUCKING DYING

The funny thing is, that it were the people who wanted difficulty options started calling the rest selfish. :^)

 

[Apollo Cree]

It's like asking for a dog that meows, uses a litter box, and always lands on it feet.

It's an intrinsic part of the game's design.

 

[Endo Punk]

Its called co-op. Having a flat out Easy mode is stupid for the type of game this is. It's not like the games are even hard, all they require is patience and understanding your surroundings. Can't do that? Stop blaming the game and play something else. In any other medium it would be crazy to say, for example, I dont like scary films but still want to see them, can't they be less scary? lol. Bloodborne and Souls games by their very nature is about challenge and overcoming that challenge through patience and trial and error. It caters to a particular audience instead of pandering to all, and I love it for that.

 

[The Flash]

Bloodborne isn't that difficult once you overlevel your character.

 

[thabiz]

The funny thing is, that it were the people who wanted difficulty options started calling the rest selfish. :^)

It's just pathetic all around. It's a video game.

 

[Newtype-001]

And that's a fair but. But to my point, for the demographic that needs the "easier" difficulty, the fear and risk would likely still very much be there.

True but that also adds another layer of tedium.

Die to a boss > lose souls > 0 souls > fight boss again immediately due to bonfire being outside > die to boss before regaining souls > go from 0 to 0 instead of 0 to however many you got before you reached the boss if the bonfire wasn't outside.

That adds a lot more frustration going from 0 to 0.

The current formula is the best.

This is why i really hate the "prepare to die" marketing; these games are challenging but so rewarding and using the difficulty as the marketing message makes people think they are some kind of impossible "I wanna be the guy" bullshit, when really, they are just challenging, and rewarding as hell.

There's a toxic segment of the souls fandom that leans in to the "git gud" meme too hard. But know that most of us don't think like that.

Tbf NB is to blame for that. I also hate it.

=P

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

Not exactly. As I've pointed out, a bonfire outside the boss room reduces the fear of losing to a boss to zero. There's not a single boss in any Souls game that can kill you before you can grab your souls, unless you run off a ledge or fall into a hole.

I agree it doesn't need to be changed. But the amount of souls / echos people can even lose as they meet a boss is trivial. You will get waaaaaay more from killing that boss than you likely got on your journy there. Especially if you have unlocked the short cuts which in bloodborne are practically are a lamp outside the boss. The levels are very cleverly designed that way.

I don't see what you could do to an easy mode that wouldn't fundamentally change the game in the normal mode as well.

What parts are people actually finding hard in bloodborne anyway (not including bosses)? Overall its a lot easier than darksouls anyway (but also better IMO).

 

[StrongBlackVine]

It's just pathetic all around. It's a video game.

Exactly it is just a video game. Go play another one if you don't like it instead of starting petitions.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Not exactly. As I've pointed out, a bonfire outside the boss room reduces the fear of losing to a boss to zero. There's not a single boss in any Souls game that can kill you before you can grab your souls, unless you run off a ledge or fall into a hole.

That's actually something I really want. At this point for me having to run to the boss is just a waste of time as I never get touched by enemies on the way to it. It's bad enough I have to waste time for the loading to finish so wasting even more to fight them again is just insufferable at this point.

 

[SDCowboy]

That's actually something I really want. At this point for me having to run to the boss is just a waste of time as I never get touched by enemies on the way to it. It's bad enough I have to waste time for the loading to finish so wasting even more to fight them again is just insufferable at this point.

Exactly. Having to run back, even with shortcuts, doesn't add difficulty. It adds annoying tedium.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Exactly. Having to run back, even with shortcuts, doesn't add difficulty. It adds annoying tedium.

Plus, most people spend all their souls before fighting bosses so losing them is never a worry. Bloodborne made things ever safer by adding a lantern in the same room as the boss after beating them, making it impossible to lose them. In past Souls games there was a chance you might lose them if the bonfire was far from the boss room but that's not a factor here.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

There already is

OP these games aren't losing sales from their difficulty, they have a specific market and they are exploiting it perfectly

 

[Raphael]

There already is

lol

slowpoke.jpg

 

[AmethystEnd]

Plus, most people spend all their souls before fighting bosses so losing them is never a worry.

That's not really accurate, is it? You're twisting things here.

First of all, in previous Souls games, if you reached a fog door and you didn't know if there was a boss behind it, you would have to make a choice of whether or not it was worthwhile to go back and spend your souls, but respawn all the enemies. How would "most people spend all their souls" if they weren't sure if there was a boss or not? And even if it was obvious, or they had read a guide beforehand, that's still a choice they had to make.

Secondly, how is that possible in Bloodborne, where the boss fights don't have fog doors until you've been ambushed by a boss the first time?

 

[King Gilga]

I never tried summons in BB but if they're anything like the ones in the other souls games they completely trivialize the game so try that OP.

That said I love single difficulty games, I hate difficulty selections, I just want one difficulty, I don't care if it's hard or easy, I just want one.

Let me have my Souls games and Bloodborne. Please. There are so many games which are a joke even on Veteran, where even a monkey with a controller would beat them given enough time. From Software games are not as hard as some claim, they just require dedication, patience, and a willingness to learn.

Souls games aren't even hard, they're just not streamlined, and reward patience, any monkey with a controller could beat them given enough time.