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Windows 10 Auto Update Deleted YEARS of Work Without Notice
- Thread starter RexNovis
- Start date
He's kinda right you know. A lot of problems that I fixed with family or friends PCs could be avoided or the fixing process could be sped up if they read what they have on screen instead of dismissing the window or clicking thing randomly.
mneuro
Member
Let's stop pretending like Microsoft didn't make this window as confusing as possible, with the intention to confuse non-tech savvy users. If the window said "yes or no" you would have a point.
BleedOrange
Banned
This analogy is wrong.
A real programmer? Who do you think wrote the code for the dialog and the underlying updating mechanism? A lawnmower?
BleedOrange
Banned
TIL having a modicum of common sense is elitest.
I really don't see how the window is confusing at all. It literally says click 'here' to cancel the upgrade.
plutoknight
Member
I don't think you've ever used a Galaxy phone then (ESPECIALLY on Verizon!)
I know with the Note 5 and GS6, updates can be pushed/downloaded without notice (even on your metered data connection!) and start during "periods of inactivity" ("I set my phone down while I went to the bathroom"). Most other phones allow you to defer the update and they just incessantly bug you (Verizon phones that don't auto-update, like the LG G3, remind you every -10- minutes).
It's STUPID. I'm not sure if it's a Samsung-specific thing, or a Verizon-specific thing, but it's stupid.
That being said, I've never had Windows 10 ever reboot for updates on me. Ever. It always just makes me install them when I shut down. I don't remember if that's a leftover setting from Win 8, or something I did.
I also had no issues with Win 10 installing with a similar setup to the OP, but I installed Windows 10 manually and have no idea how the auto-upgrade works. But, I know from reading here and Reddit that there are plenty of issues, especially with the auto-upgrade system. Seems like it's really super buggy.
I'd be nabbing every LiveCD/USB in existence trying to recover my stuff. >.> (Also, Recuva is awesome and that makes me sad it couldn't find your stuff.)
Is this about how clicking the "X" is agreeing for the upgrade prompt?
I work electronics retail on weekends -- I had 5 families/couples/etc., probably all over the age of 50-55, complain that they woke up and their computer was upgrading or was on Win 10. All of them asked me how to roll back. All of them said, "I clicked the X to close the window, I don't want that sh*t."
It wasn't a fun weekend (amazing how many names old folks have for young people who can't fix their technology.)
I'm not defending Microsoft here. I"m just saying that people don't really read popups and tend to dismiss them without much of a thought. Microsoft used that to their advantage which is scummy. Hell, quite a lot of browser PUPs don't do that shit.
R_thanatos
Member
OMg .. if this happens , it'll be NUCLEAR is term of lawsuits
and that's exactly why they didn't do it.
Hari Seldon
Member
Gemüsepizza;204535767 said:
I agree. We should all be forced to use command line linux. You can't read the manual and figure it out? No computer for you. I really like this plan because then MS would no longer exist, fuck that company.
mneuro
Member
I agree that we should be expecting users to read everything carefully that pops up on their computer. I have a much greater expectation that my Operating System isn't going to try to con me. I shouldn't have to worry about my OS acting like adware. There is absolutely no excuse for the scummy behavior of Microsoft.
BleedOrange
Banned
There is no excuse for not reading either. It goes both ways.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I agree with this post. The cancel link was intentionally placed where it is and how it is to be as easy to NOT SEE as possible so as to force unwanted upgrades onto people, much like the extra boxes you have to untick when installing random software, lest you end up with a new default search engine on your browser.I don't buy this. Here's the update screen:
The cancel link is in the same frame as two bigger sentences ("Windows 10 is a recommended update for this PC" and the scheduled date), one of which is colored in blue and the other appears to be in bold, so the eye would never be directed to it. Then you have the green check marks below, which also stands out. And there's a big "OK" button at the lower right side, far from the cancel option. Since the only nearby option says "Upgrade now", it's only natural that the user will believe there's no proper cancel button, and that the alternative to proceeding with the upgrade is closing the window. Another shitty element: the cancel link doesn't cover the entire sentence, only the word "here". Yet another: "cancel scheduled upgrade" is not even the first part of the sentence; it's the second, after "change upgrade schedule".
No, this is not accidental bad UI design or an oversight. This is deliberately confusing, to trick people into upgrading. Just like in many freeware programs' installers ("Uncheck this barely noticeable checkbox to avoid getting your PC infected with browser toolbars and fake antivirus software"), this preys on uninformed people, or those who don't take the time to read every single piece of text in every pop-up. "Oh no, we gave you an option, it's your fault for not noticing it" is not an excuse when said option is obfuscated so it is as hard to see as it can be.
Finally, you''re ignoring the fact that the user never scheduled this update. Someone sees an update message, they close it without clicking "OK" or "Upgrade now". They shouldn't be expected to realize Microsoft scheduled it on its own, and is going to go along with it unless the user sees the tiny cancel link. That is a scummy practice in my book. This update is literally behaving no better than a rogue software or shady toolbar. That's expected from shitty devs who make money by scamming people or infecting their PCs. However, it shouldn't be tolerated from the biggest OS vendor in the market.
If MS wanted people to really understand their options here, the Cancel button would have been sitting right next to the giant "OK" button, just as large and clear for readers. But they didn't want that. Frankly, I expect better of MS. Especially considering a lot of people are running older systems that have not and will never receive proper driver support from their manufacturers. Sony VAIOs from not that long ago will in some cases never work without some sort of community solutions that are all but unapproachable in their implementation for your average user. Microsoft, I'm excited that you're excited but you don't need to force the shit on people. PCs are not consoles; they come in literally a million different combinations of hardware and software. Systems that could run Windows 7 or even Windows 8 sometimes can't run Windows 10 because of drivers. Forcing people to wake up and be surprised to find Windows 10 and then have to figure out how to roll back because something is broken and can't be fixed is not acceptable.
mcdomination
Member
Users don't need to be tech-savvy to understand that dialogue. They only need to be literate. Do you believe in personal accountability in any capacity??
At what font point would you consider the word "cancel" to no longer be confusing to users, if at all?
Hari Seldon
Member
Let me pop up 100 screens where hitting the X cancels it and then pop up 101st screen where hitting the x doesn't cancel it. THE USER SHOULD HAVE READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BleedOrange
Banned
The 'X' button closes the screen. I does not have anything to do with the applications logic.. Or, should closing my calendar app on my phone cancel all my appointments as well?
If I start a download in Steam and then 'hit the X' to close the application window. I know damn well that the application is still running and the download is still occurring. Why? Because I've used a PC more than once in my life.
I'm seriously questioning whether you actually know what you're talking about.
R_thanatos
Member
Put the CANCEL button , right next to the OK button , and nobody would EVER have complained.
At some point , you can't argue that it wasn't done on purpose to trick people
kamineko
Does his best thinking in the flying car
I'm surprised that their upgrade includes logic for hands-free formatting of logical drives.
Years ago, I managed the XP deployment for a large-ish facility--can't imagine designing a script for "safely" formatting partitions when I have no idea what is on them. I don't even know what the script would use as format criteria.
Years ago, I managed the XP deployment for a large-ish facility--can't imagine designing a script for "safely" formatting partitions when I have no idea what is on them. I don't even know what the script would use as format criteria.
Programmers create functionality to a spec provided to them by a client (designer, producer, client)
That has very little to do with whats happening here. a programmer has obviously been told to implement the system in this way. so they do it.
BleedOrange
Banned
You know in your heart that isn't true.
Hari Seldon
Member
Know what I'm talking about? Did you not use a Windows 7/8 computer for the past 6 months and have to X out of the damn popup every fucking time you rebooted? And then they change the procedure all of a sudden to something else?
Crayon
Member
I have a theory. I think people in general are so used to their pcs degrading over time and eventually falling to some virus contracted from the internet that they generally know how to take care of it and they are conditioned to consider it their own problem. They know they have to get someone to reload windows and if they have to pay, they need to weigh that cost against a brand new computer.
Bajillions of people pour into geek squad et al every day with pcs borked from malware. I'm thinking the new wave of people with pcs borked from windows 10 just mix right in. It sounds like it would work and I wouldn't be surprised in the least that Microsoft would operate like this.
mcdomination
Member
You're right, I can't argue intentions of this design. MS wants everyone on Win10 ASAP. However, if a user would simply read what is in front of them, they could EASILY just cancel.
You can blame MS for a lot of BS, but a user not having the diligence to read a few, simple sentences is not one of them.
BleedOrange
Banned
That's not how you phrased what you said. You made it sound more general to other applications on the OS and similar OS's.
In this particular case, if the dialog changed, why wouldn't you read the message? I'm not taking a stance on the automatic upgrade one way or the other. I just think that personal accountability and possessing the ability to read SHOULD matter in this day & age where software gets updated regularly.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I'm 100% sure the programmers at MS were told what to do. But any programmer worth a damn wouldn't purposely confuse their consumers the way MS did here if it was 100% up to them.
R_thanatos
Member
They would have complained for other reasons , then
This recommanded update situation would and shouldn't have been made the way it is right now
Yep... this happened to me this morning. I was perfectly fine with windows 7 but I guess I actually wasn't. Thank you MS overlords for telling me what I should feel!
Hari Seldon
Member
What you are saying is flat out victim blaming. MS was clearly trying to trick people into upgrading. When a company with hundreds of millions of users decides they want to trick people, they are going to trick a large amount of people. This is evil behavior. The company should face criminal fines and those responsible for it should be fired.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Then why did MS change the way they offer upgrades to their consumers?
You can get most of the data back after a format, moreso if the drive isnt used. Considering W10 is 20GB, you might be able to get some data back depending on its level of fragmentation. If Windows wasnt written to the 500GB drive, then all the data should be recoverable (maybe loss of file names) since all that happened is that the partition table was rewritten.
Next, im struggling to believe it formatted the drive when its an "upgrade".
Next, im struggling to believe it formatted the drive when its an "upgrade".
I feel like I'm playing "Where's Waldo?" everytime I deal with computer system messages, pop up ads, or installation panes of any kind.
Those shitty ads where they hide the incredibly small X somewhere amongst the vomit of colors and flashing animations in a completely random place.
Those terrible installers that ALWAYS have extra unwanted programs checked by default and hide them in different parts of the install progression with the tiniest of text possible. No I don't want a 5th web browser, thank you.
This sort of shit should be illegal.
Those shitty ads where they hide the incredibly small X somewhere amongst the vomit of colors and flashing animations in a completely random place.
Those terrible installers that ALWAYS have extra unwanted programs checked by default and hide them in different parts of the install progression with the tiniest of text possible. No I don't want a 5th web browser, thank you.
This sort of shit should be illegal.
C'mon now, that dialogue box is confusing. They definitely hid away the cancel option. The user has to click the word "here" (WTF) to get a chance to cancel whereas there is a big obvious "Upgrade Now" button and an "OK" button that ALSO will upgrade. Simply closing the window will also upgrade. It's not exactly surprising that people might indavertently upgrade since the interface is clearly designed to make it easy for them to do so.
BleedOrange
Banned
I must be on another planet. This dialog is not confusing in the slightest for me. It states in clear english exactly what is going to happen, when it is going to happen, and gives the user an option to stop that action. If you think clicking a button/link that is highlighted like every other button/link on the internet, arguably exactly what users are trained to click on, is a daunting task I honestly question your ability to use a computer.
An upgrade of this sort should absolutely be an opt-in thing, not something that just happens automatically.
There should be a transparent, guaranteed way to block the update forever and ever. Not necessarily an "easy" way, but at least a registry key mod of some sort, like the kind you could implement to block an IE upgrade back in the day.
Crayon
Member
Why, in your opinion, is there not a "cancel upgrade" button next to the "okay" button?
Would that have been overly clear?
It's confusing because it breaks conventions for how a lot people do things and you have to go through a submenu to opt out of something which is otherwise imposed on you. This is exactly the same as how all those SearchProtect-style crapware gets around. Actually it's worse since it can just show up on its own without you installing anything new.
Why not make them both buttons or just make them both "links"?
Mister Zimbu
Member
You're deliberately ignoring the fact that the user has seen this dialog pop up 50 times by now and that clicking X every time prior to this stopped the upgrade from occurring. Even if it didn't, them intentionally burying the cancel button in the place where it would be best hidden is definitely deceitful.
All the UX designers that have been in the prior pages are 100% correct. If Microsoft weren't trying to trick people into upgrading, the cancel button would have been in a much more prominent place. All the "YOU SHOULD HAVE READ THE FINE PRINT!" talk is pure victim blaming and shilling.
And I like Windows 10. But this is absolutely scummy on Microsoft's part.
The had drive just could have easily died, malware could have been installed, Windows itself could have been corrupted just as easily as installing this update. It's on the user to protect their data in all cases. Having a single point of failure is insane.
No, in a context where this window popped up without the user summoning it, while they were probably doing other things, it is terribly designed for anything except perhaps getting the user to do what they didn't intend.
Boxes that suddently demand the user's attention like this interferes with their workflow and adds cognitive load. Then if the box was designed so that they have to read it like a novel and click the word "here" (again WTF) to achieve the "No change...leave my damn system alone" option then it's no surprise people will accidentally upgrade, as Microsoft intended.
Like they did before?
ps3ud0 8)It's tricking people who have clicked the X hundreds of times before.
The right thing to have done would be to have a message box popup to warn the user when they click the X that it will automatically update.
When you go from seeing this every day for a year:
to this:
It just looks like the same old crap, and click the X thinking it's the same message.
BleedOrange
Banned
I'm of the opinion that the dialog is perfectly clear in it's function and effect. The button to reschedule or cancel the upgrade is in the center of the dialog, and it's context clearly and plainly describes its function and effect. If you ask me its a fine place to put it.
According to others in this thread putting it anywhere else wouldn't have helped the people who don't have time to read anyways, because apparently they just clicked the close window button, 'X', thinking that that somehow cancelled the appointment.
DirtyLarry
Member
There is no known universe that anyone can actually defend with a straight face what MS has done here. None.
Let's break it down as simple as possible.
We can all agree that Microsoft was presenting users with a choice. Right?
But a simple breakdown of the composition and the layout shows that in fact they were doing everything they could to assure that person would have a difficult time choosing the No portion of the choice being presented.
First, they buried the No option among lines of text. On it's own away from all other "buttons." It also is just text and not a button. People can try and use the excuse that it is the end users fault for not reading that text but that is bullshit to anyone who works in computers and knows the actions of your typical end user. They absolutely DO NOT read text, and MS was clearly counting on this fact.
Then instead of offering a simple Yes or No choice side by side, instead it was a Yes / Yes choice. And please make note, the one choice they actually wanted people to choose is the only button to be chosen. I mean cmon, seriously. Is that not enough to prove this was intentional?
Finally in way is the most egregious offense of them all, they took what is universally known as the exit of out of the Window and make no choice button to actually be the choice they wanted button.
There is just no excuse for this. Simply none. Anyone trying to say there is just is either blinded by loyalty to MS and/or simply just does not know anything about UI design.
This is as intentional as it gets. It is downright blatant.
Let's break it down as simple as possible.
We can all agree that Microsoft was presenting users with a choice. Right?
But a simple breakdown of the composition and the layout shows that in fact they were doing everything they could to assure that person would have a difficult time choosing the No portion of the choice being presented.
First, they buried the No option among lines of text. On it's own away from all other "buttons." It also is just text and not a button. People can try and use the excuse that it is the end users fault for not reading that text but that is bullshit to anyone who works in computers and knows the actions of your typical end user. They absolutely DO NOT read text, and MS was clearly counting on this fact.
Then instead of offering a simple Yes or No choice side by side, instead it was a Yes / Yes choice. And please make note, the one choice they actually wanted people to choose is the only button to be chosen. I mean cmon, seriously. Is that not enough to prove this was intentional?
Finally in way is the most egregious offense of them all, they took what is universally known as the exit of out of the Window and make no choice button to actually be the choice they wanted button.
There is just no excuse for this. Simply none. Anyone trying to say there is just is either blinded by loyalty to MS and/or simply just does not know anything about UI design.
This is as intentional as it gets. It is downright blatant.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Again: This was not a question. This was an information.
Crayon
Member
BleedOrange
Banned
There is no known universe that anyone can actually defend with a straight face what MS has done here. None.
Let's break it down as simple as possible.
We can all agree that Microsoft was presenting users with a choice. Right?
But a simple breakdown of the composition and the layout shows that in fact they were doing everything they could to assure that person would have a difficult time choosing the No portion of the choice being presented.
First, they buried the No option among lines of text. On it's own away from all other "buttons." It also is just text and not a button. People can try and use the excuse that it is the end users fault for not reading that text but that is bullshit to anyone who works in computers and knows the actions of your typical end user. They absolutely DO NOT read text, and MS was clearly counting on this fact.
Then instead of offering a simple Yes or No choice side by side, instead it was a Yes / Yes choice. And please make note, the one choice they actually wanted people to choose is the only button to be chosen. I mean cmon, seriously. Is that not enough to prove this was intentional?
Finally in way is the most egregious offense of them all, they took what is universally known as the exit of out of the Window and make no choice button to actually be the choice they wanted button.
There is just no excuse for this. Simply none. Anyone trying to say there is just is either blinded by loyalty to MS and/or simply just does not know anything about UI design.
This is as intentional as it gets. It is downright blatant.
If your argument is that people don't read and blindly click anything that appears on their computer screen then literally ANYTHING could have happened to their computer. If it wasn't this it would have been a malware popup, or an internet ad, or a file dialog asking them if they wanted to delete their personal documents or one of a million other things.
If you have no sense of personal responsibility or time to understand the actions that you're undertaking then you PROBABLY shouldn't be using a general purpose OS and instead be using something more specialized that is less complicated.
BleedOrange
Banned
edit: double post
Mister Zimbu
Member
People don't read, and if a company takes advantage of that to try to force unwanted software on their computer, then that's scummy, deceitful, and malicious, and that's exactly what happened here.
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