Microsoft's in a bit of a weird place because of how poorly they've handled things in the past. They're "right" in that what many people want to do with their computers should be actively discouraged including avoiding updates since we have enough problems with spam/botnets etc. as-is, but they currently also have the conflict of really, really wanting their app store push to work and making poor decisions around that.
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Windows 10 Auto Update Deleted YEARS of Work Without Notice
- Thread starter RexNovis
- Start date
Microsoft's in a bit of a weird place because of how poorly they've handled things in the past. They're "right" in that what many people want to do with their computers should be actively discouraged including avoiding updates since we have enough problems with spam/botnets etc. as-is, but they currently also have the conflict of really, really wanting their app store push to work and making poor decisions around that.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Don't forget, 'free' tho!
Is there a case to make that while this does have some direct benefits to the end user the method employed (even if the OS change ends up as positive) will make those same end users less laissez faire in how they deal with MS in the future? The whole once bitten twice shy thought...
Just can imagine being reminded of this next time something significant comes out for Windows or a feature that has minor negative connotations. Its pretty much why the XO is where it is - everything is poked and prodded...
ps3ud0 8)
Just can imagine being reminded of this next time something significant comes out for Windows or a feature that has minor negative connotations. Its pretty much why the XO is where it is - everything is poked and prodded...
ps3ud0 8)
The average person is already fearful of OS updates as Windows upgrades have been historically expensive, time consuming and full of compatibility issues (drivers and software). Even the Windows 8 to 8.1 update was a bit of a mess, tying up a lot of computers for hours then failing. Most people only get on a new version of Windows when they buy a new computer. Microsoft are only going to further reinforce that behaviour with these antics which is a great shame as Windows 10 has a lot of security benefits that are especially beneficial to the average user but Microsoft keep shooting themselves in the foot by continuing to make the Windows upgrade experience terrible. Apple figured this stuff out a long time ago.
Wickerbasket
Member
What kind of people did you expect to encounter on a Windows 10 subreddit?
And yeah, everything about how Microsoft is handling this 'free update' is utter bullshit. Forcing people to upgrade isn't going to earn them any good will.
michaelius
Banned
Well that already happened they had my trust for last 15 years where I pretty much installed every new Microsoft OS and always had them on auto update.
Now I'm blocking W10 update, install updates only manually and verify what they do on net before installing them.
I also replaced all my windows ecosystem devices with alternatives (laptop-> OS X, phone -> Android) to the point where I only have my gaming rig running windows. And even that will be changed to dual boot Linux+Windows when I'll be doing mainboard upgrade this summer.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They do not care if you don't like it. You will have it, and they can brag about the MAU's. They also know people are fickle, and eventually just swallow and conform more often than not after the storm subsides.
The Shadow
Member
Windows 10 user here. Whenever I see anybody trying to defend how these updates are done though, I gotta wonder
For real. It's one of those situation that make me wonder, "How could anyone defend this BS?" and then I look in these threads. And it's not just the isolated fanbot, but a good portion that are victim blaming.
WTF indeed.
I've always used Windows at home because I game, but yeah, I'm thinking of switching myself. I have a MBA for work and I love the hardware but never really dreamed of switching at home until very recently. My next personal desktop or laptop might be an apple.
Crayon
Member
My head is spinning, I would love to help, but going through the comments isn't ideal for my blood pressure.
So lets see a large portion of GAF members and people on Reddit says its the guys fault for not making backups. No it can't possibly be true right?
michaelius
Banned
Nope it only shows lack of knowledge of the people attacking him.
He wouldn't have any need to use backup of his data if windows update haven't messed up his existing copy in the first place.
If he had backup he would still have lost all data created since last backup plus he would lose time to restore it.
In both case fault lies with Microsoft software and policies only difference would be scale of damage.
Pathfinder
Member
What's funny is there are actually two issues going on here.
One being Microsoft's shady forceful upgrade practices and the other being lack of sufficient backups for valuable data. Just because a person is bringing up the lack of backups doesn't necessarily mean they're shilling for Microsoft.
Fault lies two ways 1. for Microsoft forcing the update on people 2. The user for not backing up his data.
Microsoft should get more of the blame but if the data was that important than some definitely lies on the user himself.
Best crack ever, 10/10, would crack again.
This. It sucks that happened and they shouldn't be doing these shady upgrade tactics, but if the files are important, they should have been backed up.
No one should care at all about the second fault. The first fault is the one that should not be there for anyone, and Microsoft should be held responsible for it. Someone backing up their data is their own responsibility, why would anyone else care? See, that's the bullshit here. No one else besides OP has a stake in this data. There is no reason to bring it up because its inconsequential. Besides, not having contingencies is something completely different from actively destroying data.
No, just no. The blame entirely lies on Microsoft, nobody fucking expects an update to entirely wipe a disk drive. Don't argue against it, it is fucking stupid.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Backups wouldn't change that the update deleted his stuff in the first place.
In no way do I condone what MS is doing here, their incessant Win10 prompts have been driving me nuts too, but if you have important stuff then you better back that shit up. Don't rely on your disk surviving forever, or even a short while (I've had failures within months of purchase, both physical and SSD), or on everyone else doing the right thing (MS, hackers, virus makers, kids, cleaners, co-workers, power company, ...).
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Clearly MS update program is shit. Hell, their handling of Pro version is kind of shit too (can't turn off Win Store except if you have Enterprise, for one example). The madness that MS Win10 patching situation is shit too. Let's say I had many a discussion with MS SMEs concerning that. Rolling out Win 10 at scale is a pain in the rear.
All that said, not having backups is dumb and akin to playing Russian roulette. There are too many ways to lose your main drives and OS partitions.
Local backup plus cloud backup is ideal and very easy to do now days. I use CrashPlan for example and it handles both and it's not that expensive. Hell, for some important docs I have them in 3-4 places (use encryption as needed, CrashPlan has strong by default with your own keys).
To summarize: MS general handling of Win10 from consumer to enterprise including upgrades and patching is crap. Backups still got to be done.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Forcing the update is shit, but seriously, who doesn't back up what's important to them?
I have basically 3 backups of everything.
I have all my shit in OneDrive, I have a raw "old school" backup where everything is dragged over to a 2TB drive and then I have another 2TB drive that's used for Time Machine.
I have basically 3 backups of everything.
I have all my shit in OneDrive, I have a raw "old school" backup where everything is dragged over to a 2TB drive and then I have another 2TB drive that's used for Time Machine.
Man are you trolling here or do you honestly believe what you typed? I sure hope it's the first. THERE IS ALWAYS A NEED TO BACK UP YOUR DATA NO MATTER WHAT. His HDD could have died, he could have gotten Malware that encrypted his data, he could have had his PC stolen, and I could list about a million other things that could have happened to cause him to lose his data. What you just wrote is the exact WRONG RESPONSE in this situation.
I will even concede Windows 10 shouldn't auto update, but its a FAR FAR more serious issue people don't back up their data out of ignorance.
Seriously...not defending Microsoft at all (though I don't believe a simple win 10 update did what he said it did) but if you don't backup...its your own fault. And parity or raid is not a backup.
It still blows my mind that probably the biggest system level change, a major OS upgrade, is possible on Windows not just without typing in a password but with no user input either. A modern OS should ask for a password first before system files can be messed with, even on an admin account.
I say modern but Microsoft really should have figured this out 20 years ago.
I say modern but Microsoft really should have figured this out 20 years ago.
It really blows my mind we are in 2016 and people actually believe they don't need to backup their data.
Well, that too. No excuses now that cloud storage is integrated into the OS and is dirty cheap/free.
But an OS upgrade should never happen without a password being entered. It's a terrible security model.
Nobody expects most of the things that would force you to need a backup, that doesnt mean if you dont have a backup you arent responsible for that. Microsoft are certainly entirely to blame for the data loss. The user is to "blame" for not having a recent backup to recover it. Blame for everyone, what a glorious time to be alive.
You make backups to protect yourself against hardware failures or other disasters.
Your own OS shouldn't be a failure and a disaster that you need to protect yourself from.
CrispyBoar
Banned
Windows 10 has to be one of the worst OS's from Microsoft ever.
The take away from this thread should be that you always need to have important data backed up, because you never know what vector could lead to your data being permanently eliminated. It's impossible to know ahead of time what is going to destroy your data. You think you are safe and then all of a sudden it's all gone.