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Windows 7..What the hell are people thinking?

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pxleyes said:
Looks like Vista with multi-touch right now.
Click to expand...

It's a little more than that, but yes, essentially. It's a very nice evolution of Vista.

*Edit* Also, I should mention that Win7 has not gotten it's art pass yet. That's one reason why it looks the same. The Windows team has said that they want each version to be different and identifiable.
 
VIDEO: http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-us&vid=8700c7ff-546f-4e1d-85f7-65659dd1f14f

More pics.

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killakiz said:
yes ballmer show us the stuff apple showed us a year ago.
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Microsoft has been researching this stuff for a longggg time. I would bet probably longer than Apple. Apple just built on that research and packaged it up to make it look pretty in the iPhone.

Microsoft has the Surface, this in Win7, and it's also coming in WinMobile7, plus they already have the tablet experience and what-not.

Also, digg this: http://digg.com/microsoft/Official_Video_of_Windows_7_Multi_Touch
 
Iced_Eagle said:
Microsoft has been researching this stuff for a longggg time. I would bet probably longer than Apple. Apple just built on that research and packaged it up to make it look pretty in the iPhone.

Microsoft has the Surface, this in Win7, and it's also coming in WinMobile7, plus they already have the tablet experience and what-not.

Also, digg this: http://digg.com/microsoft/Official_Video_of_Windows_7_Multi_Touch
Click to expand...
So what? It doesn't change that we've seen this all before, and this unveiling is weak. I wanted to see something that shows they've learned something from Vista, not people touching a screen.

I like the bigger taskbar as a small step forward, but we'll have to see what they do with it. Resolutions have gotten high enough that our taskbars are many times smaller than they were when Windows 95 came out.
 
Oh well you need to know this isn't really the start of the Win7 media drive. Hell, they aren't even saying what else is new. They are just showing off one cool thing in Win7.

The rest will more than likely be announced at PDC in October along with a beta.

*Edit* Also, if you don't like how small things are at a high resolution, change your DPI. This is a Vista feature.
 
Iced_Eagle said:
*Edit* Also, if you don't like how small things are at a high resolution, change your DPI. This is a Vista feature.
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Right, and then you lose all sorts of horizontal space. I'm speaking of this change as a design consideration for modern computing, not as an alternative to the standard ability to zoom.
 
Iced_Eagle said:
Oh well you need to know this isn't really the start of the Win7 media drive. Hell, they aren't even saying what else is new. They are just showing off one cool thing in Win7.

The rest will more than likely be announced at PDC in October along with a beta.

*Edit* Also, if you don't like how small things are at a high resolution, change your DPI. This is a Vista feature.
Click to expand...
Yes steve is showing off the one cool thing we have seem a million times this and last year, touch interface is old news now.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
So what? It doesn't change that we've seen this all before, and this unveiling is weak. I wanted to see something that shows they've learned something from Vista, not people touching a screen.

I like the bigger taskbar as a small step forward, but we'll have to see what they do with it. Resolutions have gotten high enough that our taskbars are many times smaller than they were when Windows 95 came out.
Click to expand...
The fact that you're not seeing anything already shows that they've learned something...
 
surazal said:
I hope they reverse the decision of supporting 32-bit in Win7.
Click to expand...

We've just gone through a brutal transition kicking and screaming... Now you want them to do yet another brutal cut? Not likely.

I say it all depends on how the support of 64-bit in Win7 goes in terms of app support and drivers.
 
I can't see touch screens being useful in any daily computer usage. Touching my screen is going to make it smudge, going to be more physically demanding than using a mouse and generally be impractical for everything from word processing, to internet browsing and to gaming.

I don't mind them "adding it on", but how about a UI that doesn't look identical to Vista, hmm?
 
Can someone go over a few of the main bullet points as to why folks supposedly hate Vista? I haven't had enough experience with the OS to realize what the hell everyone is griping about, since I've only really played around with it at computer stores. I use OS X as my main operating system, but I'm really familiar with XP since I use it at work. From my limited Vista experience Vista looks to me like a shinier XP with some usability improvements. What's the big deal?

edit: Page 4 does a pretty decent job. Whoaahhh.
 
surazal said:
I hope they reverse the decision of supporting 32-bit in Win7.
Click to expand...

My bet is that 7 is the last OS to support 32-bit (for the main host OS)

By the time, 2012/13 rolls around, all desktops/laptops will be installed with a 64-bit OS and a 32-bit VM will be used for "some" 32-bit apps that don't work in x64.

To clarify:
Most 32-bit apps currently run fine on Vista 64 because AMD (and Intel followed) made the brillant decision to make x64 backwards compatible with x86.
 
:D wwent from xp(which was great besides for the fuck ups every now and then) to OSX during the whole vista thing and I love it and im not looking back

Apple logic is a major reason for the love over here though
 
Iced_Eagle said:
Registry is/was a horrible idea that should be kicked straight out the door (it was hopeful it would have been gone with Vista).
Click to expand...

IMO - it's not the idea that was the problem, it was the execution.

Millions of businesses rely on centralized storage of data - they're called databases.

Just like databases have a well-defined interface (SQL), the registry has a specific API for reads, updates, deletes.

The problem is that it took a few releases before they got it up to par in terms of reliability found in most databases - ACID, transactions, backups and restores, etc.
 
aswedc said:
Second, Windows 7 is not going to be the same kernel as Vista and 2008. Microsoft claims it will be different this time, for real.
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It was announced today that "this time, for real" actually means "next time, maybe".

http://www.osnews.com/story/19793/Windows-7-No-New-Kernel-Builds-on-Vista
Microsoft is not creating a new kernel for Windows 7. Rather, we are refining the kernel architecture and componentization model introduced in Windows Vista.
Click to expand...
 
Oh, cool. Looks like everyone forgot about those bullshit Vista demos from a couple years ago that never panned out. You know, with the flashy applications that were a visual and fucntional revolution over those in xp, then dissapeared into thin air, never to be heard from again. What happened there?
Nice to see everyone get excited again.
 
The video looks horrible. Almost everything they did would be easier/faster with a mouse.

Apple will release a Tablet/Laptop this fall with multi-touch OS X and beat MS by 2 years to the market.
 
Slurpy said:
Oh, cool. Looks like everyone forgot about those bullshit Vista demos from a couple years ago that never panned out. You know, with the flashy applications that were a visual and fucntional revolution over those in xp, then dissapeared into thin air, never to be heard from again. What happened there?
Nice to see everyone get excited again.
Click to expand...
Holy shit, I remember those now.

They. were. AMAZING. I can't remember what they did, but I was floored.

Someone help me find them.
 
Slurpy said:
Oh, cool. Looks like everyone forgot about those bullshit Vista demos from a couple years ago that never panned out. You know, with the flashy applications that were a visual and fucntional revolution over those in xp, then dissapeared into thin air, never to be heard from again. What happened there?
Nice to see everyone get excited again.
Click to expand...


I was really looking forward to flipping windows and scribbling on the back of them :(
 
f_elz said:
Seems MS will have a multi touch OS on a desktop before Apple.:D
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Windows 7 isn't due out until 2010 at the earliest. Apple supposedly has a tablet coming later this year, and has multi-touch integrated into their laptops, phones, and iPods. If you really think there won't be a touch-screen Mac before Windows 7 comes out, well...

Edit: I just hope with all this touch-screen bullshit going on that it doesn't ONLY use your fingers, like the iPhone and iPod Touch do, and the demos of Windows 7 show. I love pretending I'm in Minority Report as much as anyone else but I'd also like to have the precision of a stylus if I'm going to write or draw something.
 
In the age of ever increasing widescreen monitors, microsoft starts to embrace GUIs which take up more vertical space.
 
solid2snake said:
damn people, just get a Mac with OS X Leopard - why are you waiting for Vista 1.5?
Click to expand...

It comes down to this for me. OSX has it's good parts, but it also has it's problems, just as Windows has it's problems and it's good parts, in the end the difference is minimal for me, except of course that windows is cheaper, more widely supported, and has games... I'd only use OSX if I got a mac(book) for free, and even then I'd probably still throw windows on it
 
I sometimes come into contact with Vista when somebody asks me a how-to/can-you-help-me-plz!! question. I don't use Vista (easy guess why) and I don't criticize OS's on reputation, but every time I come into contact with Vista, and when I try to figure out how things work to solve a problem, the impression for me is that Vista's UI is just not designed to solve problems.

I also felt like I had to 'do more' for the same action. In the end, I couldn't fix the problem (connecting a guy's laptop with Vista to an Airport Extreme that uses MAC and WPA security). Also, and this ticks me off like insane, I had to find the MAC address, but both in XP and in Vista, I can't simply just read the MAC address. No, I have to open the command prompt and type some commands. I don't mind typing commands in Windows, but the syntax changed slightly in Vista and it took me some time to 'get it'. Also, when I was trying to establish a connection, and it failed, the error messages are incredibly vague. And it's also highly unfriendly to repeating the action, because you have to click all your way back to change something, then click all the way forth to test something.
 
solid2snake said:
damn people, just get a Mac with OS X Leopard - why are you waiting for Vista 1.5?
Click to expand...
Because Vista is a fucking fantastic operating system, plays games better than XP, without limiting my hardware options while charging me up the ass for it.

Besides, like Mac fanboys are the ones to talk - Apple shoves another $120 service pack down your throats every 1-2 years.


DEAD RABBIT said:
I sometimes come into contact with Vista when somebody asks me a how-to/can-you-help-me-plz!! question. I don't use Vista (easy guess why) and I don't criticize OS's on reputation, but every time I come into contact with Vista, and when I try to figure out how things work to solve a problem, the impression for me is that Vista's UI is just not designed to solve problems.

I also felt like I had to 'do more' for the same action. In the end, I couldn't fix the problem (connecting a guy's laptop with Vista to an Airport Extreme that uses MAC and WPA security). Also, and this ticks me off like insane, I had to find the MAC address, but both in XP and in Vista, I can't simply just read the MAC address. No, I have to open the command prompt and type some commands. I don't mind typing commands in Windows, but the syntax changed slightly in Vista and it took me some time to 'get it'. Also, when I was trying to establish a connection, and it failed, the error messages are incredibly vague. And it's also highly unfriendly to repeating the action, because you have to click all your way back to change something, then click all the way forth to test something.
Click to expand...
Just like any new operating system, there is a learning curve for the first little bit. Since you don't use the operating system, for "obvious" reasons that you don't disclose, leading me to believe that you're just another FUD muncher, you've never spent the day or two of regular usage that it takes to overcome that learning curve.

However, once you get used to it, EVERYTHING I've ever done in Vista is far, far easier than XP ever was. If only because of control panel + search = awesomeness.




For anyone who missed it, this is an absolutely fantastic resource for anyone bitching and moaning about Vista - especially those of you who are a part of the vast majority of people who bitch and moan about Vista without ever having actually used it regularly on your own PC - http://www.tweakguides.com/VA_1.html
 
dLMN8R said:
Besides, like Mac fanboys are the ones to talk - Apple shoves another $120 service pack down your throats every 1-2 years.
Click to expand...

Don't throw around accusations of FUD if you're going to use FUD yourself.
 
Burai said:
Don't throw around accusations of FUD if you're going to use FUD yourself.
Click to expand...
you win this round!

Anyway, I love the ribbon interface from Office 2007, and I'm glad to see that they're using it to significantly upgrade paint and wordpad.
 
DEAD RABBIT said:
I also felt like I had to 'do more' for the same action. In the end, I couldn't fix the problem (connecting a guy's laptop with Vista to an Airport Extreme that uses MAC and WPA security). Also, and this ticks me off like insane, I had to find the MAC address, but both in XP and in Vista, I can't simply just read the MAC address. No, I have to open the command prompt and type some commands.
Click to expand...

In Windows XP:

Start Menu -> Network Connections, right click on your Local Area Connection (or whatever connection you want the MAC address for) then select Status from the menu. Click on the Support tab and click on Details. Seems like a lot of steps but really, it's fast. MAC address shows up in the listing as "Physical Address".

I don't have my wireless connected right now to test if it's the same with a Wireless connection but it should be similar.
 
To find your MAC address in Vista:

start->control panel->"view network status and tasks"->view status->details

or

start->type "network"->network and sharing center->view status->details

basically the same number of steps, but once you get used to the new organizational structure of networking in Vista, it's easy as pie.


Luckily, wireless networking in Vista is incredibly easy. I took my Thinkpad around from my apartment, to class, to coffee shops, to friends' places, and other wireless networks without a single hitch. The key is disabling and/or removing the shitty software that vendors pre-install onto your system - they were helpful in XP, but an absolute waste of space in Vista.
 
Finding a Mac address on Vista is even easier than all your clicks posted above.

Start> type CMD > type "getmac" boom all mac addresses on your computer.
 
Mar_ said:
Ehhh... At first I thought that was a joke, with Ubuntu screenshots. But a bit of looking around shows an open source paint program for Windows that looks almost exactly like it:

paintnet.png


http://www.getpaint.net/screenshots.html

Sooo. Is the poster here trying to be shifty, or is Microsoft?
Click to expand...

Not that I know anything, but paint.NET (in your screenshot) was originally developed by people that were later hired by Microsoft. Maybe they were hired to revamp Paint (although I doubt the more complicated features like layers will make it in--Paint is supposed to be the notepad of image editing).

Personally, I'm not sure I see a whole lot of paint.NET influence myself. To me, these are obviously more influenced by the ribbon Office 2007 UI.
 
dLMN8R said:
Because Vista is a fucking fantastic operating system, plays games better than XP, without limiting my hardware options while charging me up the ass for it.

Besides, like Mac fanboys are the ones to talk - Apple shoves another $120 service pack down your throats every 1-2 years.

Just like any new operating system, there is a learning curve for the first little bit. Since you don't use the operating system, for "obvious" reasons that you don't disclose, leading me to believe that you're just another FUD muncher, you've never spent the day or two of regular usage that it takes to overcome that learning curve.

However, once you get used to it, EVERYTHING I've ever done in Vista is far, far easier than XP ever was. If only because of control panel + search = awesomeness.

For anyone who missed it, this is an absolutely fantastic resource for anyone bitching and moaning about Vista - especially those of you who are a part of the vast majority of people who bitch and moan about Vista without ever having actually used it regularly on your own PC - http://www.tweakguides.com/VA_1.html
Click to expand...

I don't see how you have the right so start throwing around words like "Mac fanboy" when its pretty obvious where your allegiances lie. You aren't the voice of reason and objectivity you think you are.

Vista today isn't Vista 06. A great number of people bought Vista back then, and they are the people (myself included) who were met with an onslaught of compatibility issues and crashes.

As for "tweakguides", not everyone has the time or will to wade through .ini files and system services to make marginal performance gains. Its not the consumers job to fix a product, and i'll say the exact same thing about Crysis too. It wasn't my job to go out and get custom configuration files to get the game to run half decently.

So, from someone who uses many, many OS's, Vista was a giant fuck up. Its pretty good now, but its not good enough to justify to mud people had to drag themselves through back at release. The security features are still a joke and I would rather just piss them all off and do it my way.

As for the alleged performance increases, memory and core management have yet to show real gains in games, and the solution to 90% of performance issues is to add -dx9 into the shortcut.
 
TheHeretic said:
I don't see how you have the right so start throwing around words like "Mac fanboy" when its pretty obvious where your allegiances lie. You aren't the voice of reason and objectivity you think you are.

Vista today isn't Vista 06. A great number of people bought Vista back then, and they are the people (myself included) who were met with an onslaught of compatibility issues and crashes.

As for "tweakguides", not everyone has the time or will to wade through .ini files and system services to make marginal performance gains. Its not the consumers job to fix a product, and i'll say the exact same thing about Crysis too. It wasn't my job to go out and get custom configuration files to get the game to run half decently.

So, from someone who uses many, many OS's, Vista was a giant fuck up. Its pretty good now, but its not good enough to justify to mud people had to drag themselves through back at release. The security features are still a joke and I would rather just piss them all off and do it my way.

As for the alleged performance increases, memory and core management have yet to show real gains in games, and the solution to 90% of performance issues is to add -dx9 into the shortcut.
Click to expand...
I am fully aware of how Vista in 2007 was a far different beast than it is today. But if you're going to use the excuse of how much worse something was on release than it currently is, you'd better use the same argument against XP - it's launch was fucking TERRIBLE, magnitudes worse in every way from Vista's launch. Security nightmares, even larger compatibility problems, even slower performance on modern hardware, and other problems.

The point is that Vista TODAY is a fantastic operating system, straight out of an SP1-patched box. Whether you want to believe it or not, the security is a drastic overhaul even completely ignoring UAC.



And as for "going into ini files and tweaking everything", I agree with you. Luckily, the link I posted has absolutely jack shit to do with that. There are a couple of minor registry tweaks here and there, but the vast majority of the article is about addressing bullshit FUD with straight-up, objectively demonstrated examples.
 
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