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[Complex Shadow]

wait so how apple able to roll out updates while windows 7 users have to suffer?

 

[brotkasten]

Every WP7 user should follow this account on twitter. It's gold.

Interesting #wp7 update fact: #nodo was designed to provide the maximum amount of user dissatisfaction over a long period of time

#nodo - coming soon to a phone near you, really! #wp7

You know we actually shipped #nodo yesterday. Now we will make you wait some more! Yes we can. #wp7

Having to wait for Twitter to index my tweets makes me happy. It's just like #waiting for #nodo! #wp7

New survey: customers are very happy with the #nodo #wp7 update. Did I say customers? I meant carrieres. Carriers are happy!

Fake WP

wait so how apple able to roll out updates while windows 7 users have to suffer?

It's magic. Pure magic.

I really wish someone from Engadget would write en editorial about this. The clicks they could generate ...

 

[numble]

The update is OTA right? That must be why carriers can control it.

 

[giga]

wait so how apple able to roll out updates while windows 7 users have to suffer?

"I run this shit"

 

[brotkasten]

The update is OTA right? That must be why carriers can control it.

No, it's not. There are no OTA updates for WP7. Everything goes through Zune and Microsoft's own Microsoft Update service. Microsoft is just playing the carrier's bitch.

 

[VanMardigan]

"I run this shit"

*bows*

The only thing that can even come close are the pure Google Nexus devices. That's why I would gladly skip over any dual core Android device in favor of a Nexus S on AT&T.

 

[CaptainABAB]

Microsoft is just playing the carrier's bitch.

I am as frustrated as anyone about the update process - but what choice does Microsoft have here? WP7 isn't popular enough so that they can dictate terms. They have to be the OEM and carrier bitch, unlike Apple.

Beggers can't be choosers.

 

[antiquegamer]

I am as frustrated as anyone about the update process - but what choice does Microsoft have here? WP7 isn't popular enough so that they can dictate terms. They have to be the OEM and carrier bitch, unlike Apple.

Beggers can't be choosers.

And yet carrier are crying that they need a viable option outside of Apple and Android because they don't want to become a dumb pipe for phone manufacture. Yet thing like this is why Apple is doing so well because they don't have to give a shit what carrier said.

Problem with Microsoft is there are too many heads running the company and too many affliate that they don't want to piss off.

 

[Robobandit]

And yet carrier are crying that they need a viable option outside of Apple and Android because they don't want to become a dumb pipe or phone manufacture. Yet thing like this is why Apple is doing so well because they don't have to give a shit what carrier said.

Problem with Microsoft is there are too many heads running the company and too many affliate that they don't want to piss off.

Yep..

Honestly I think the faster they become dumb pipes and a service only proposition the better off we'll all be.

Then they'll have to compete on service for price..

 

[brotkasten]

And yet carrier are crying that they need a viable option outside of Apple and Android because they don't want to become a dumb pipe or phone manufacture. Yet thing like this is why Apple is doing so well because they don't have to give a shit what carrier said.

Problem with Microsoft is there are too many heads running the company and too many affliate that they don't want to piss off.

I know that and I understand how hard it is for Microsoft to get back into the game. However, they overpromised, they fucked up and I, as a customer, don't care who's fault it is. I know I can and have to blame Microsoft, because they took the responsibility for the updates (unlike Google) and again, they fucked up and that's all I need to know and all I care about.

 

[Korey]

I am as frustrated as anyone about the update process - but what choice does Microsoft have here? WP7 isn't popular enough so that they can dictate terms. They have to be the OEM and carrier bitch, unlike Apple.

Beggers can't be choosers.

Who cares what choice does Microsoft have here? That's completely irrelevant to customers. Microsoft should have thought of that in the planning stages and had that stuff figured out beforehand or made it happen through other means.

 

[lunarworks]

I am as frustrated as anyone about the update process - but what choice does Microsoft have here? WP7 isn't popular enough so that they can dictate terms. They have to be the OEM and carrier bitch, unlike Apple.

Beggers can't be choosers.

iOS didn't even exist before Apple approached the carriers.

Steve Jobs just had the balls to go in there and make demands.

 

[dream]

Too bad Google undid a lot of the work Apple did in trying to turn the carriers into true dumb pipes.

 

[Earl Cazone]

why do they even need the carriers, i dont quite get this? isnt it possible to publish the update through zune? what do the carriers have to do with it, besides OTA update

 

[antiquegamer]

Too bad Google undid a lot of the work Apple did in trying to turn the carriers into true dumb pipes.

Yep that is one of my biggest disappointment with google's phone. I remember when they getting to launch the droid there was all talk about taking carrier out of the equation and built OS that anyone can use and do whatever they want.

 

[antiquegamer]

why do they even need the carriers, i dont quite get this? isnt it possible to publish the update through zune? what do the carriers have to do with it, besides OTA update

Because their contract allow for carrier to "block" well let me rephase that since Microsoft claim that is not blocking but allow carrier to choose the date and time the update can be implements. Also carrier can choose to have update bundle up together so if they don't want you to have NoDo so they can sell that new shiny HD7S they can force the update to roll into the next one.

 

[brotkasten]

why do they even need the carriers, i dont quite get this? isnt it possible to publish the update through zune? what do the carriers have to do with it, besides OTA update

I think this is how it works:
Microsoft builds the OS. Carriers and OEMs ship additional apps with the phones and they need to be tested with the latest build. They also have their own section in the WP7 marketplace and that link needs to be build into the ROM. When they're done with the testing, they send the ROMs back to Microsoft, where Microsoft will test it again. If everything is okay, Microsoft will publish the update. If one single partner (OEM or carrier) has a problem, everyone has to wait until that problem is solved. Now if it's only a carrier who has a problem and can't solve it in time, they have the possibility to skip one update cycle. Great idea in theory, because updates are cumulative and they're not holding everyone else back, but we saw that it doesn't work for anyone.

I could be wrong, but this is how it looks to me.

I guess the last fuck up with the February update and Samsung phones made the overcautious, or, well, paranoid and now they're slowly rolling out the update. Very, very slowly.

 

[Klocker]

AT&T has always and will always suck for updates.

I was really hoping Ms would have been able to pull an iPhone deal here and get this chit out through Zune without carrier intervention... (one thing i miss form my iPhone)

yea right.

I remember waiting friggin months and months for WM 6.5

now my poor focus waits.

 

[kehs]

Yep that is one of my biggest disappointment with google's phone. I remember when they getting to launch the droid there was all talk about taking carrier out of the equation and built OS that anyone can use and do whatever they want.

Um....that's what they did.

 

[Robobandit]

Um....that's what they did.

No, it's not what they did.

I believe he's referring to the hope that Google themselves would offer a VOIP telephony service and sell their own phones so that people didn't have to go through carriers for service.

When they announced Android, I had hoped that doing away with the need for wireless carriers as we know them today was going to be part of the deal and was very disappointed to see them playing by the rules of carriers.

That's a far cry from selling a few unlocked devices.

 

[Blackhead]

Yep that is one of my biggest disappointment with google's phone. I remember when they getting to launch the droid there was all talk about taking carrier out of the equation and built OS that anyone can use and do whatever they want.

It could be argued that when Apple partnered with carriers for the release of the original iPhone that they actually made the carrier stronger. A lot of people had to switch to AT&T for the original iPhone and then sign up for the contracts required with each successive model. I wouldn't say either company is working particularly hard to take away the carrier, they just like to control different parts of the experience.

Microsoft think they need carriers to push the phones for them in the store and in other related advertising. The carriers just take the concessions but don't particularly care/go back to pushing iPhones. Microsoft has enough money and mindshare (Xbox integration) to grow the marketshare 'organically' themselves, Microsoft shouldn't be seeking that help.

 

[kehs]

No, it's not what they did.

He's referring to the hope that google themselves would offer a voice over IP telephony service and sell their own phones so that people didn't have to go through carriers.

When they announced Android, I had hoped that doing away with the need for wireless carriers as we know them today was going to be part of the deal and was very disappointed to see them playing by the rules of carriers.

That's a far cry from selling a few unlocked devices.

Let's see, 2.3.3 has SIP acess built in for VOIP services.

Anyone can compile a full complete OS from Github for FREE.

Google themselves provides OTA updates directly to the customers.

When people say "anyone can use", that includes companies too.

People somehow expect a corporation to use resources for something that won't benefit them.

 

[Robobandit]

Let's see, 2.3.3 has SIP acess built in for VOIP services.

Anyone can compile a full complete OS from Github for FREE.

Google themselves provides OTA updates directly to the customers.

When people say "anyone can use", that includes companies too.

People somehow expect a corporation to use resources for something that won't benefit them.

They've put out a total of 3 devices and none of them supported VOIP out of the box, as you said it didn't come until 2.3.3.

I'm not sure how running their own service provider wouldn't be potentially lucrative for them.. after all, they seem to feel as though getting into the ISP business is worth while for them.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...le-launches-1gbps-fiber-to-the-home-trial.ars

Yes, they did put out an open source OS that anyone can use and they put out 2-3 unlocked devices (was G1 unlocked? I don't remember). In a misguided sense, I had hoped that Google would "save" us from the wireless service providers ridiculous plan prices. It was never promised that they would, but i think that's what a lot of people were hoping would happen. The cell phone equivalent of g-mail, essentially.

getting back on topic...

Microsoft is definitely not taking Google's approach and they don't have the same kind of clout as Apple. They pretty much have to deal with the carriers..

 

[kehs]

They've put out a total of 3 devices and none of them supported VOIP out of the box, as you said it didn't come until 2.3.3.

I'm not sure how running their own service provider wouldn't be potentially lucrative for them.. after all, they seem to feel as though getting into the ISP business is worth while for them.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...le-launches-1gbps-fiber-to-the-home-trial.ars


getting back on topic...

Microsoft is definitely not taking Google's approach and they don't have the same kind of clout as Apple. They pretty much have to deal with the carriers..

Google's only put out two devices, and you've been able to do VOIP on android since at least 1.6.

 

[snap0212]

O2 Germany just told everyone that the update is "expected to be available early April".

Doesn't all of this just confirm that carriers can actually block the updates? How can Microsoft even claim that that's not the case if everyone see it for themselves. The fact that you get the update at the very moment you unlock your device proofs that the block happens on the carrier side of things, right?

 

[antiquegamer]

O2 Germany just told everyone that the update is "expected to be available early April".

Doesn't all of this just confirm that carriers can actually block the updates? How can Microsoft even claim that that's not the case if everyone see it for themselves. The fact that you get the update at the very moment you unlock your device proofs that the block happens on the carrier side of things, right?

Heh, I think we all know this and was hoping it's not the case. Microsoft keep spinning it as there is no "blocking" when all the eveidence, including their blog essentially confirm that yes carrier control the update and not Microsoft.

It's really too bad, I was really hype for Windows Phone 7 when I saw it at PAX last year and have high hope for it after reading all the pre-launch PR that they know what need to be done to compete. I cancel my iPhone 4 pre-order and waited for my At&t to get WP7. I should have know thing would be crap when there was two phone total at my At&t store on the launch day.

On a side note, reading from couple place that Windows Phone 7 team is ex-Windows Vista team. If it's true, well that's explain a lot....

 

[Complex Shadow]

i still have some hope. but as days go by i am slowly starting think that my next phone might be an android rather than a window phone 7.

 

[Vibram6finger]

i still have some hope. but as days go by i am slowly starting think that my next phone might be an android rather than a window phone 7.

Get an HTC HD2, the best of every world

 

[brotkasten]

O2 Germany just told everyone that the update is "expected to be available early April".

Doesn't all of this just confirm that carriers can actually block the updates? How can Microsoft even claim that that's not the case if everyone see it for themselves. The fact that you get the update at the very moment you unlock your device proofs that the block happens on the carrier side of things, right?

I think "blocking" implies that carriers will never release the update, but right now they're just holding it back.

In other news:
Verizon HTC Trophy passes FCC with AT&T bands.

The Verizon HTC 7 Trophy will be a dual band world phone with both GSM and CDMA circuitry. Usually when US CDMA phones are world phones they have European 3G bands (usually 900 and 2100 Mhz) but the HTC 7 Trophy unusually has 850 and 1900 HSDPA bands perfectly suitable for AT&T, suggesting the handset will be equally as home on both of US biggest carriers.

omg, AT&T + Verizon merger! We're doomed!

 

[Complex Shadow]

Get an HTC HD2, the best of every world

the thing is, i like apps (games mostly). and i love the look of the dell venue pro.

I think "blocking" implies that carriers will never release the update, but right now they're just holding it back.

In other news:
Verizon HTC Trophy passes FCC with AT&T bands.

omg, AT&T + Verizon merger! We're doomed!

your already dead.

 

[CaptainABAB]

iOS didn't even exist before Apple approached the carriers.

Steve Jobs just had the balls to go in there and make demands.

Yes, but he already had the success of the iPod and iTunes to use as leverage.

Anyone who got a preview of the first iPhone could tell what a game changer it was. Please read the following article, specifically page 3...

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/magazine/16-02/ff_iphone

Here is a quote about a meeting with the AT&T CEO six months before the launch...

Jobs had a prototype to show to the suits at AT&T. In mid-December 2006, he met wireless boss Stan Sigman at a suite in the Four Seasons hotel in Las Vegas. He showed off the iPhone's brilliant screen, its powerful Web browser, its engaging user interface. Sigman, a taciturn Texan steeped in the conservative engineering traditions that permeate America's big phone companies, was uncharacteristically effusive, calling the iPhone "the best device I have ever seen."

Sigman and his team were immediately taken with the notion of the iPhone...The iPhone, with its promised ability to download music and video and to surf the Internet at Wi-Fi speeds, could lead to an increase in the number of data customers. And data, not voice, was where profit margins were lush.

A cozy relationship with the maker of the iPod would bring sex appeal to the company's brand.

 

[CaptainABAB]

Problem with Microsoft is there are too many heads running the company and too many affliate that they don't want to piss off.

Piss off the manufacturers and no one will make WP7 devices.

Piss off the carriers and they will drop WP7 as a phone OS they sell.


This is why MS won't even say who is causing the delays. When you are behind, you don't say bad things about anyone - even Yahoo and their SMTP data-using errors.

 

[Vanillalite]

Piss off the manufacturers and no one will make WP7 devices.

Piss off the carriers and they will drop WP7 as a phone OS they sell.


This is why MS won't even say who is causing the delays. When you are behind, you don't say bad things about anyone - even Yahoo and their SMTP data-using errors.

Piss off the users and you spent all of that time and money making the project and appeasing the carriers and manufacturers and your fucked even worse cause in the end it's about the end user.

 

[Blackhead]

Yes, but he already had the success of the iPod and iTunes to use as leverage.

Anyone who got a preview of the first iPhone could tell what a game changer it was. Please read the following article, specifically page 3...

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/magazine/16-02/ff_iphone

Here is a quote about a meeting with the AT&T CEO six months before the launch...

So? He went to Verizon first and offered them the device and was turned down (as the rumor goes). Don't forget that Jobs had already gone on stage pushing that Motorola phone, with integrated itunes and 'ipod', which flopped. Apple got many carriers around the world on board for the iPhone but few of those were the leading carrier in their respective countries. Many in the industry were suspicious of Apple and the first iPhone wasn't subsidized, remember? Only after the iPhone had proven a success with customers was Apple to get many more carriers in their fold.

Piss off the users and you spent all of that time and money making the project and appeasing the carriers and manufacturers and your fucked even worse cause in the end it's about the end user.

This.

 

[PG2G]

Some good news for once

IDC: Windows Phone 7 helps Microsoft grab smartphone market share in Australia/

"The launch of Windows Phone 7 saw a notable 3.2% Q/Q jump in shipments of smartphones running Windows, with Microsoft's Q4 total equalling that of all Windows Mobile devices shipped in the prior 12 months," said Novosel.

"Android is expected to overtake Symbian and become the number one smartphone OS in Australia within the next few months and its market share will stabilise around 40%. Apple will account for close to 30% and Windows Phone expected to see strong growth in coming years, with market share in excess of 20% by the end of 2015," added Novosel.

 

[giga]

Yes, but he already had the success of the iPod and iTunes to use as leverage.

Anyone who got a preview of the first iPhone could tell what a game changer it was. Please read the following article, specifically page 3...

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/magazine/16-02/ff_iphone

Here is a quote about a meeting with the AT&T CEO six months before the launch...

Not relevant to the topic at hand, but that was an interesting read.

Before they could start designing the iPhone, Jobs and his top executives had to decide how to solve this problem. Engineers looked carefully at Linux, which had already been rewritten for use on mobile phones, but Jobs refused to use someone else's software. They built a prototype of a phone, embedded on an iPod, that used the clickwheel as a dialer, but it could only select and dial numbers — not surf the Net. So, in early 2006, just as Apple engineers were finishing their yearlong effort to revise OS X to work with Intel chips, Apple began the process of rewriting OS X again for the iPhone.

The conversation about which operating system to use was at least one that all of Apple's top executives were familiar with. They were less prepared to discuss the intricacies of the mobile phone world: things like antenna design, radio-frequency radiation, and network simulations. To ensure the iPhone's tiny antenna could do its job effectively, Apple spent millions buying and assembling special robot-equipped testing rooms. To make sure the iPhone didn't generate too much radiation, Apple built models of human heads — complete with goo to simulate brain density — and measured the effects. To predict the iPhone's performance on a network, Apple engineers bought nearly a dozen server-sized radio-frequency simulators for millions of dollars apiece. Even Apple's experience designing screens for iPods didn't help the company design the iPhone screen, as Jobs discovered while toting a prototype in his pocket: To minimize scratching, the touchscreen needed to be made of glass, not hard plastic like on the iPod. One insider estimates that Apple spent roughly $150 million building the iPhone.

Through it all, Jobs maintained the highest level of secrecy. Internally, the project was known as P2, short for Purple 2 (the abandoned iPod phone was called Purple 1). Teams were split up and scattered across Apple's Cupertino, California, campus. Whenever Apple executives traveled to Cingular, they registered as employees of Infineon, the company Apple was using to make the phone's transmitter. Even the iPhone's hardware and software teams were kept apart: Hardware engineers worked on circuitry that was loaded with fake software, while software engineers worked off circuit boards sitting in wooden boxes. By January 2007, when Jobs announced the iPhone at Macworld, only 30 or so of the most senior people on the project had seen it.

Crazy stuff.

 

[Klocker]

Piss off the manufacturers and no one will make WP7 devices.

Piss off the carriers and they will drop WP7 as a phone OS they sell.


This is why MS won't even say who is causing the delays. When you are behind, you don't say bad things about anyone - even Yahoo and their SMTP data-using errors.

True...

Spoiler

and smart

 

[Treo360]

just a few niggling issues thus far with NoDo. Every once and a while the Marketplace wants to lock up, but after hitting the back button and retrying again it loads up fast. Also sometimes with full bars I lose connectivity, or I'm stuck trying to load a page, this sometimes requires a restart of the radio antenna. I've had a random reboot when using the people tile.

Oh, programs do load up a bit quicker.

 

[Firestorm]

jesus
no wonder their stuff doesn't leak the same way some other companies' do

 

[Earl Cazone]

Some good news for once

IDC: Windows Phone 7 helps Microsoft grab smartphone market share in Australia/

yeah!

 

[giga]

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/features/update-schedule.aspx

 

[antiquegamer]

Piss off the users and you spent all of that time and money making the project and appeasing the carriers and manufacturers and your fucked even worse cause in the end it's about the end user.

And this is why Apple win.

 

[Vanillalite]

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/features/update-schedule.aspx

You mean all 3 phones that happen to be on AT&T are testing? Surprise surprise... which basically means April.... L O L.... I'm gonna laugh if it's mid April and we are at the same point. Hell at this rate we'll see the iphone 5 announced before we get our 1st update. LOL

 

[Klocker]

god damned AT&T

HTC Surround Testing
LG Quantum Testing
Samsung Focus Testing

 

[Treo360]

Where's my I'm a troll gif now? Wow this shit sucks for those who can't update.

 

[PG2G]

At least they hear our anger and are attempting to give out some more information.

That's one step in the right direction... still sucks tho -_-

 

[Vanillalite]

At least they hear our anger and are attempting to give out some more information.

That's one step in the right direction... still sucks tho -_-

Someone who was community focused probably got tired of all of the questions on say FB or Twitter. LOL

USA Gaf should take bets on what comes first Tax Day or the update for AT&T... L O L

 

[watership]

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/features/update-schedule.aspx

This is nice and transparent. Rogers looks like it'll have it this or next week.

 

[Treo360]

This is nice and transparent. Rogers looks like it'll have it this or next week.

except that

This table provides update status for Windows Phone customers in the U.S. Find your phone model, then check to see what stage your update is in. Here's what each term means:

Stage 1: Testing
The software update is undergoing mobile operator network and quality tests. no date is given for completion

Stage 2: Scheduling
Operator testing is complete, and Microsoft is scheduling the update for delivery. This phase typically lasts 10 days or less. Again no date is given. 10 days from when?

Stage 3: Delivering update
Microsoft has started to send out the update. Because updates are typically delivered to customers in batches, it might take several weeks before you receive notice that an update is available for you. So after the update is delivered it can still take several weeks for you to receive it.

Yeah, at this point and time it will be out when it's out, so don't hold your breath. Nothing transparent there.

 

[antiquegamer]

This is nice and transparent. Rogers looks like it'll have it this or next week.

Yes, it's really transparent now we know who is blocking the update.

So I don't understand if they need the last few weeks for testing then why there are still testing going on. You would think if they are going to lie they could do a better job.

Well at least they are communicating so they must be tire of reading all the complain, that or the carrier told them they need to post something because they tire of getting phone call and email.