It's not, at least for Kojima. The problem with MGS5 is we're looking at seven years since the last major console installment in the series, and while Kojima and a good chunk of KojiPro worked on Peace Walker and is a mainline installment, that game was in no way a good substitute to the audience wanting something on the same scale as MGS4, especially as it debuted on the PSP. That's nearly an entire console generation to cover, which is nuts.
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Wired (Chris Kohler): "The Era of Japans All-Powerful Videogame Designers Is Over"
- Thread starter Sapphire Dreams
- Start date
It's not, at least for Kojima. The problem with MGS5 is we're looking at seven years since the last major console installment in the series, and while Kojima and a good chunk of KojiPro worked on Peace Walker and is a mainline installment, that game was in no way a good substitute to the audience wanting something on the same scale as MGS4, especially as it debuted on the PSP. That's nearly an entire console generation to cover, which is nuts.
flatearthpandas
Member
Japan is definitely going through some pains in the industry but Aonuma, Miyamoto, Sakurai, Kojima, Kamiya, Itagaki are all pretty common and recognizable names inside the industry. Many of them are doing their own thing right now and still making boss games in partnerships with the gigantic elephant in the article.
Miyazaki is a more recently widespread name who has taken mainstream gaming by storm the last few years, most recently in a partnership with Sony.
Miyazaki is a more recently widespread name who has taken mainstream gaming by storm the last few years, most recently in a partnership with Sony.
And he's right...oh yeah, read the full article my peeps!
He's speaking like FF is going the way of FarmVille and is crowd sourced.
Pyrrhus
Member
Does the site you got this from go back to the PS1 and PS2 eras? I think it would be interesting to see how many units those system were selling at the same time from launch as the PS4.
Yes it was.
He's speaking like Kojima was the last nail in the coffin for autonomous big name directors when in truth he was always an exception in this industry with his freedom and budget. Taking 5+ years to make a game is unacceptable especially in the HD-era.
It just seems like unnecessary doom and gloom. Lots of exaggeration.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Boarding the Miyazaki train. Also Akihiro Hino if he decides to do something for the PS4. At least we got Ni no Kuni out of him.
KingJ2002
Member
The article's purpose and conclusion don't match up.
Designers / Studios all over the world are starting their own studios and working on their own terms to avoid being caught working on a single franchise for their entire career... and with this said... even if they leave the studio it doesn't mean they cannot produce another AAA title... and to attribute the changing gaming industry to it... i just don't see the logic in that.
Designers / Studios all over the world are starting their own studios and working on their own terms to avoid being caught working on a single franchise for their entire career... and with this said... even if they leave the studio it doesn't mean they cannot produce another AAA title... and to attribute the changing gaming industry to it... i just don't see the logic in that.
Natureboy99
Banned
Japanese sales are very game driven and no big Japanese games have landed on PS4 yet. Check back after FF15, MGS5, GT7, KH3, etc land on PS4.
I don't disagree with you there on the long time point between main installments. But the problem wasn't the directors themselves, it was the transition to HD that a large amount of Japanese developers just couldn't do smoothly... I mean, Kojima did a whole new engine in those years you're talking about to overcome this for any future multiplatform release such as MGS5 now.
They did can the first version of MGRR, so that must be factored into that time period as well.
Let's use your own definition
And let's read one of the posts in this thread
+ a bunch of others that are either not mentioned (like a lot of Nintendo devs from Aounuma to Koizumi or people that work for smaller publishers).
I get what the article of your friend is trying to say, but I just don't share the same impression and think that other than Kojima, Ueda, Fuji and others there are still enough developers who fit your definition.
HOW DARE HE INSULT THE PSP
ReBurn
Gold Member
It probably wouldn't be that big of a deal, really. He's had a good run, but the world has changed around him.
Regardless of whatever insider information you may or may not have, if that's the way Square Enix chooses to present its inner workings to the public, that's the way articles are going to report about it.
a Master Ninja
Member
The "All-Powerful Videogame Designer" disappearing is only a symptom of the problem. Over the past decade Japanese developers became unable or unwilling to make products that appeal to consumers outside their own country, and spent more than they could hope to make back. After a console generation of failure they are forced to downsize and shift to mobile/F2P, hoping for a hit to keep the lights on. Going forward, Japanese AAA on consoles is dead unless Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony directly finance the game.
Galactic Barret
Member
I always wonder what the Japanese game industry would look like today if Japan, as a majority, had backed the PS3 from the beginning instead of the 360.
Would it still be mobile-dominate? Would its death still be prophesized like it has been the past 3-4 years?
Would it still be mobile-dominate? Would its death still be prophesized like it has been the past 3-4 years?
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Sensationalist and a few inaccuracies.
Kobun Heat, you got some splainin to do.
Kobun Heat, you got some splainin to do.
Pyrrhus
Member
Kojima's overthrow was a historically significant point. He is at the moment perhaps the most famous Japanese developer in the world after Miyamoto, he was one of the last people of his era still at one of the old giants and still working in active game development (as opposed to having been shunted up into managerial duty like Miyamoto, Inafune, and other big names), and the story of Metal Gear has the longest running continuity in the industry, with one story spanning from 1986 until this year. His fall is perfectly emblematic of the end of an era.
That's kind of the thing, though. Konami isn't off the hook at all, since they've been rather incompetent managers for all of their IPs and not just MGS, but relinquishing that amount of power to Kojima over that franchise led to issues like that. A more tightly ran ship would have never seen that, and that's the issue we're faced with now. I actually don't disagree with Konami for wrestling the series back under their control, but the way they're handling it is absolutely abominable.
sensationalist how, what inaccuracies? Seems like a pretty accurate article to me
Kobun Heat
Member
I just want to clarify something:
To be totally fair to all parties involved:
mea culpa:
The PSP did have Gitaroo-Man.
To be totally fair to all parties involved:
mea culpa:
The PSP did have Gitaroo-Man.
Valdfellgar
Banned
I agree, and I'm willing to bet gaming will eventually have a resurgence in Japan. Everything waxes and wanes naturally, and while this does seem like a particularly disastrous wane, I'm pretty sure in five or ten years gaming will see a boost away from the mobile space.
It'll probably be in response to some kind of industry wide change, like for example how expensive games are there. Unless the economy improves then gaming will eventually have to respond with a price model drop, which would then in turn pull back customers who'd dropped the hobby or bring in new youth who find the new pricing model affordable.
His 15 minutes sure came and went.
Pyrrhus
Member
Yes, it would still be mobile dominated. Japanese folks spend a lot of time away from home and those homes themselves are much smaller than your average Western home. In the past if you wanted to game you had a console or you went to a game center, regardless of whether you were an extremely casual player or a hardcore enthusiast who bought games on a weekly basis. But now people can get games for ostensibly free of a quality acceptable to them on their phones, which they always have with them anyway, and can play them unobtrusively on the train, in bed, on a smoke break or what have you. Even if the home team hadn't completely face planted in Gen 7, mobile domination would still be the outcome.
It's not nearly as bad as his farcical "vaporware" article where all the games derided as being vaporware have now been shown in detail or released apart from Zelda Wii U.
"the sequel to Xenoblade Chronicles" - released April 29, 2015
"A new Yoshi game in the gorgeous art style of Kirby’s Epic Yarn" - release date June 26, 2015
"A high-definition remake of The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker" - released September 20, 2013
"the follow-up to the Super Mario Galaxy series" - released November 21, 2013
"a new Mario Kart" - released May 29, 2014
"Super Smash Bros." - released September 13, 2014
adamantypants
Member
Everyone is getting really touchy on this.
Personally, I don't see Japan ever re-emerging as a AAA game producing machine ever again. That doesn't mean they'll stop making games, they just won't be making the ones you see on holiday newspaper ads.
Personally, I don't see Japan ever re-emerging as a AAA game producing machine ever again. That doesn't mean they'll stop making games, they just won't be making the ones you see on holiday newspaper ads.
Spieler Eins
Member
Some really overestimate Kojima.
Sure, software drive hardware sales and that's not something common only in Japan however it's very easy to pick a historical example where a home console dwarfed WiiU and PS4 sales so far despite a relatively weak launch lineup.
PS4 sales in Japan so far are disappointing.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
The "All-Powerful Videogame Designer" disappearing is only a symptom of the problem. Over the past decade Japanese developers became unable or unwilling to make products that appeal to consumers outside their own country, and spent more than they could hope to make back. After a console generation of failure they are forced to downsize and shift to mobile/F2P, hoping for a hit to keep the lights on. Going forward, Japanese AAA on consoles is dead unless Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony directly finance the game.
Truth bombs, truth bombs everywhere.
Must be a slow news day.
You can't just look at the Konami situation and conclude the OP statement.
The people involved are people who have been around since the early days. People who grew with a company and became renown for their works. Obviously a company that profits a lot off of successful installments will position their directors as an icon, but companies who have no interest in innovation could care less.
The same goes with Team Ninja. They don't need Itagaki. The know the formulas and they're already banging out the installments.
When you're paying one person upwards of a million, it's just safer business to axe him and try wringing out franchises for yourself.
However, there are multiple creative directors who are just coming into their own. Hidetaka for one, Kamiya, Itsuno, Mikami, Toriyama...
It's kind of like the dichotomy of exclusivity.
If you're a small developer, having these creative talents are a big deal, because they help sell the games. People buy Kamiya games, people buy Mikami games.
But if you're a big developer, you're focusing more on expanding the number of franchises you own, and getting as much margin as possible.
Exclusivity:
When you're a small developer (or have a shitty game) exclusivity can lead to privelages like greater hype, better marketing, development assistance.
But when you're a large developer, an established franchise can make the transition across platforms and make up for the lower sales on a single platform.
However, in between there is this cost for extra development. A small developer can't afford to take the risk of spending another million to port an unestablished title, because at least a certain number of copies need to be sold to cover the cost.
TL;DR: doubling 750k is impressive, but not financially sound. Doubling 2m is a different story.
Likewise: Paying someone 1m/yr to increase sales by 2m is sound, but paying someone 1m/yr for the same sales is not.
You can't just look at the Konami situation and conclude the OP statement.
The people involved are people who have been around since the early days. People who grew with a company and became renown for their works. Obviously a company that profits a lot off of successful installments will position their directors as an icon, but companies who have no interest in innovation could care less.
The same goes with Team Ninja. They don't need Itagaki. The know the formulas and they're already banging out the installments.
When you're paying one person upwards of a million, it's just safer business to axe him and try wringing out franchises for yourself.
However, there are multiple creative directors who are just coming into their own. Hidetaka for one, Kamiya, Itsuno, Mikami, Toriyama...
It's kind of like the dichotomy of exclusivity.
If you're a small developer, having these creative talents are a big deal, because they help sell the games. People buy Kamiya games, people buy Mikami games.
But if you're a big developer, you're focusing more on expanding the number of franchises you own, and getting as much margin as possible.
Exclusivity:
When you're a small developer (or have a shitty game) exclusivity can lead to privelages like greater hype, better marketing, development assistance.
But when you're a large developer, an established franchise can make the transition across platforms and make up for the lower sales on a single platform.
However, in between there is this cost for extra development. A small developer can't afford to take the risk of spending another million to port an unestablished title, because at least a certain number of copies need to be sold to cover the cost.
TL;DR: doubling 750k is impressive, but not financially sound. Doubling 2m is a different story.
Likewise: Paying someone 1m/yr to increase sales by 2m is sound, but paying someone 1m/yr for the same sales is not.
I don't believe this guy is bandwagoning Kojima or any game in particular, I think he was more or less generalizing that particular facet of the industry as a whole - which includes Kojima - and other notable producer/developers. And I agree with you, taking 5+ years to make a game is currently unacceptable - for a AAA publisher, which coincides with Kojima's departure.
...hence the tone of the article.
I'd find it hard to believe for someone to publicly name a producer with Kojima's accolades, and STILL with their parent company. In a way, to the extent of the ENTIRE article, he IS the last nail because we will most likely never again witness the uniqueness of this era in gaming where producers are given a great measure of creative latitude.
Point is 18K per week isn't something to cheer about.
Cannot believe what I'm reading, it's like people forgot what PS2 was doing after the beating home console got last generation.
Anime Avatars gotta get offended somehow...
He is just saying there is a obvious market shift in Japan, he is not criticising your beloved Japanese developers, helps if you read the whole article before jumping into full defensive mode.
That is one example against plenty of large studios that have gone either the way of the dodo or mobile, that's the trend.
He is just saying there is a obvious market shift in Japan, he is not criticising your beloved Japanese developers, helps if you read the whole article before jumping into full defensive mode.
That is one example against plenty of large studios that have gone either the way of the dodo or mobile, that's the trend.
True, though Miyamoto himself is also seeing to the education of a lot of younger people at Nintendo. The three we saw in the Splatoon video at last year's E3 - Yusuke Amano, Tsubasa Sakaguchi and Hisashi Nogami - are apparently among those, and the work they're doing on Splatoon bodes well for their future efforts. These three, among more, may well be the new generation of powerhouse designers/producers that will replace Miyamoto when he eventually retires.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
He's right.
I already thought it was over "... But at least we still have Kojima and Metal Gear" ...and then that final domino fell.
I feel that the heir apparent to Japan's corporate auteurs is the Western indie scene.
I already thought it was over "... But at least we still have Kojima and Metal Gear" ...and then that final domino fell.
I feel that the heir apparent to Japan's corporate auteurs is the Western indie scene.
BumblebeeCody
Member
#JapanGate
It's about the ethical reporting of the Japanese video game industry. Pro-"Japaners" generally consist Otaku weaboos who (for some reason) harass Chinese players. While Anti-"Japaners" think that articles like this should exist and do have a point in some way.
What side will you take?
No rational thinking or looking at both sides, you're either with us and our Mike Hatsune pillows or against us and think that Japanese gaming development is doing fine.
It's about the ethical reporting of the Japanese video game industry. Pro-"Japaners" generally consist Otaku weaboos who (for some reason) harass Chinese players. While Anti-"Japaners" think that articles like this should exist and do have a point in some way.
What side will you take?
No rational thinking or looking at both sides, you're either with us and our Mike Hatsune pillows or against us and think that Japanese gaming development is doing fine.
Yup, that's how I read it... although I will be missing one auteur having carte blanche to doing whatever the hell they want with their games, it's not terribly feasible anymore outside of the indie scene, due to budgets. How many western AAAs have auteur producers anyways? Sid Meyer and uhh...? What was the Bioshock guy's name again?
This is a GREAT time to be a fan of JP gaming. Xenoblade X, Persona 5, FF15, MGS5, Zelda, etc... But I do fear this may be the the "going out with a bang" of the industry...
astrogamer
Member
Just to be clear, that's more Hisashi Nogami mentoring Yusuke Amano and Tsubasa Sakaguchi. Hisashi Nogami has been around since the SNES days so he's sort of old guard. Miyamoto wasn't that involved with Splatoon
There's a wide variety of people at Nintendo being trained for the leaderships, with Kosuke Yabuki (Mario Kart 7 & 8), Isao Moro and Aya Kyoguko (Animal Crossing New Leaf) and Yuji Kando (Pikmin 3 Director) for instance
TheSpoiler
Member
It was always kind of silly to have these "superstars" of gaming, since a video game is created from many, many people. Like how people think Kayima made Bayonetta 2 all by himself or that he was heavily involved. From a business standpoint, it's not always safe to have a person at the full helm, Kojima excluded, and it rarely happens like this whether we see it or not.
As for Japanese gaming, it's far from dead. Last generation saw a ton of great titles, like Yakuza, 3D Dot Heroes, Xenoblade, The Last Remnant, and a host of fighting games. The difference from previous generations is that it's not as viable to release them on a Playstation or Xbox platform, nor is it as viable to release them stateside. They are there, you just have to do more work.
Though I would say that this resurgence on the PC front is amazing and with titles like Bloodbourne being taken in very well, we might see another push for localized games.
Gaming genres rarely ever do that. Either the quality drops dramatically before the drop, or releases just fall by the wayside. If you look at what's coming out this year, and what has come out, there's already been a huge bunch of titles, from remasters to full-on titles, and more on the way.
As for Japanese gaming, it's far from dead. Last generation saw a ton of great titles, like Yakuza, 3D Dot Heroes, Xenoblade, The Last Remnant, and a host of fighting games. The difference from previous generations is that it's not as viable to release them on a Playstation or Xbox platform, nor is it as viable to release them stateside. They are there, you just have to do more work.
Though I would say that this resurgence on the PC front is amazing and with titles like Bloodbourne being taken in very well, we might see another push for localized games.
This is a GREAT time to be a fan of JP gaming. Xenoblade X, Persona 5, FF15, MGS5, Zelda, etc... But I do fear this may be the the "going out with a bang" of the industry...
Gaming genres rarely ever do that. Either the quality drops dramatically before the drop, or releases just fall by the wayside. If you look at what's coming out this year, and what has come out, there's already been a huge bunch of titles, from remasters to full-on titles, and more on the way.
Most likely will not see any new Kojimas and Miyamotos anytime soon, current atmosphere is just not here for that. People in Japan in the younger gen are probably more interested in getting the paycheck over trying to really be innovative. And it seems that way in a lot of stuff, my friend is over there doing manga and when he goes to these big publishing companies its almost embarrasing the kind of crap I hear - Dumb down the stories, add these kinds of characters, draw in this style, this is whats IN, this is what will sell. What a joke.
Pyrrhus
Member
We've had many personalities they've hung the games on over the years. Sid Meier and Ken Levine, as you mentioned, John Romero, American McGee, Warren Spector, Will Wright, Richard Garriot, Peter Molyneux, Toby Gard, Patrice Desilets, Michel Ancel, Neil Druckman, Denis Dyack, Jade Raymond, Amy Hennig, Notch, Cliff Blezinski, the Houser Brothers, Vince Zampella, and so on and so forth.
Now, some of these figures are now in disgrace and in some cases, it's more marketing than truly being a case of one personality overshadowing all the others, but there's still very much an accepted tendency for an "auteur" to be identified and celebrated as the creator or heart of a franchise. I think it speaks to a difference in culture between Western game companies and the Japanese model.
A lot of the big Japanese developer-names are still doing great, though:
Mikami just released The Evil Within which is an amazing first effort for Tango - I'm excited to see where they can go from here
Inafune left Capcom and is making Mighty No 9, which looks to have high expectations (and to be fair, looks like it's gonna sell gangbusters & start a great franchise)
Kojima is still getting MGS V out of the door, but I don't think it'll be long before we see him lay his hat down somewhere new.
Kamiya is kicking all kinds of butt over at Platinum Games
the list goes on
Sensationalist bullcrap.
I guess if there's a point to be made, it's more that Japanese publishers done fucked up and now things are having to be ironed out in different ways
Mikami just released The Evil Within which is an amazing first effort for Tango - I'm excited to see where they can go from here
Inafune left Capcom and is making Mighty No 9, which looks to have high expectations (and to be fair, looks like it's gonna sell gangbusters & start a great franchise)
Kojima is still getting MGS V out of the door, but I don't think it'll be long before we see him lay his hat down somewhere new.
Kamiya is kicking all kinds of butt over at Platinum Games
the list goes on
Sensationalist bullcrap.
I guess if there's a point to be made, it's more that Japanese publishers done fucked up and now things are having to be ironed out in different ways
I figured the first page would be obvious fodder for that tripe but I see the whole thread's been this way. Oh well