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[Neuromancer]

Any opportunity to shit on a product you don't like, even if not relevant to the thread. I'm sure you've had plenty of hands on and your "this shit" comment referring to the product is based on your extensive experience with it.

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot we weren't allowed to have opinions about things that haven't come out yet. Regardless of whether we've kept up with the news on it, read previews or heard hands-on impressions. In fact I think Microsoft would really appreciate it if we all held back on our concerns and criticisms for as long as possible.

 

[Jomjom]

Yeah, okay. So you played Rez with a controller in your pants. Fair enough. But in other games?

Haha funny. But I seriously think you are in the minority if you are going to argue that rumble feedback is insignificant. At the very least three large video game console manufacturers disagree with you.

If honestly no one gave a crap about rumble, I'm pretty sure MS, Nintendo and Sony would immediately remove those motors that cost them an extra 10 cents or so in production costs for each controller.

 

[A.R.K]

Hey, a kinect thread goes to shit on GAF! That's so weird!

This was a nice light story on Kinect's history. I just watched IGN's clip on Your Shape: Fitness Evolved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH-cCQ4jhZM

One spot on Ellen and Morning TV shows and this thing will sell LOADS.

These are kind of "games" that kinect will be good at... exaggerated motions that don't require precision and where lag doesn't matter cuz the software will try to mimic and compensate the lag. Basically jumping, kicking around, flailing your arms would work great on kinect. But sorry no pew pew with fingers.

And yeah it will sell cuz casuals don't care about accuracy/lag as long as they can jump around and are having fun.

 

[BLagiver]

It also means Kevin Butler's 'pew pew pew' wouldn't even work.

Yes it would if he did it Mega Man arm cannon style.

 

[antiquegamer]

Mattrick has to be the worst head of the Xbox division, ever.

Why? Under him, Xbox division have been very profitable. He oversee a new hardware re-launch that take care of the problem created by previous group of Xbox. Only fault I have with Xbox under Mattrick is that they seems (like most MS products) lack unify vision and structure. Other than that I don't have problem with hin running Xbox as there are many improvement since he took over.

 

[Neuromancer]

Yes it would if he did it Mega Man arm cannon style.

OK that actually could be kind of cool. :lol

 

[jett]

Total puff piece. It doesn't discuss any of the issues/concerns that have arisen about the tech since its unveiling, and doesn't even mention the Wii as a factor in Kinect's development.

I agree. Meh article.

 

[RustyNails]

So I read the 5 page article. As an Engineer at heart (with a degree), I really want the technology to succeed. There are some incredibly talented people involved in creating the hardware. Lots of smart, PhD folks. The article shows how Kinect came about from a dream to reality. But it really felt like a PR piece. There is no discussion on what type of games Kinect will have other than sports and kinectimals. No discussion on fan reaction at all. Near the end of the article, Andreas (Rare) says

“After that, that’s when we can really go to town. You can create any experience on Kinect -- shooting games, fighting games, adventure games; it’s how you tackle that subject. A lot more can be done with face recognition, with voice recognition.”

This is what I wanted to know about and the reason I read all through. How RPGs, Adventure, shooting and fighting games gonna work with Kinect, and all we get is a PR line from Rare.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

For some reason or other I recently keep hearing how Nintendo's technology 'failed as a motion device' and didn't live up to potential. It made them billions! If Microsoft's tech makes them billions, they shouldn't care too much whether it works or not either.

It's pretty clear that they don't care whether or not it works right now.

 

[The Technomancer]

Damn, see, this is the kind of stuff that had my hyped for Natal in the first place. The broad-strokes motion control was never very interesting, it was the face and voice and finger recognition that I thought was the future. Its a shame that every gameplay vid I've seen so far is absolutely painful.

I've actually been learning some computer vision, just through the osmosis of having to sit through the presentations of some of the grad students in our department. Its a fascinating field.

 

[Trent Strong]

A labor intensive, Minority Report style interface for the Xbox dashboard would get old really fast. Pressing a button is just a lot easier in the end.

 

[Neuromancer]

A labor intensive, Minority Report style interface for the Xbox dashboard would get old really fast. Pressing a button is just a lot easier in the end.

Easier but so much less cool.

 

[The Crimson Kid]

Depends on how close to the camera the doctor's hands are. And I don't think he is speaking about using Kinect in those situations, but the technology in Kinect

Of course it won't be used in those situations, surgeons require specialized equipment that costs a hell of a lot more than ten 360+Kinect bundles. Anyways, Kinect doesn't recognize fingers at all, nevermind how close they are to the cameras, so the discussion is moot.

I was using it as an example of how all of these grand ideas MS had envisioned for uses for Kinect ended up falling flat on their face when what had to be cut from the device due to costs is factored in.

From the article, it sounds like the lab workups/prototypes worked like wonders because the engineers didn't have to think about cost at all. Honestly, why would they when there were so many obstacles to something as crazy as Kinect ever becoming a consumer product.

 

[RustyNails]

Of course it won't be used in those situations, surgeons require specialized equipment that costs a hell of a lot more than ten 360+Kinect bundles. Anyways, Kinect doesn't recognize fingers at all, nevermind how close they are to the cameras, so the discussion is moot.

I was using it as an example of how all of these grand ideas MS had envisioned for uses for Kinect ended up falling flat on their face when what had to be cut from the device due to costs is factored in.

From the article, it sounds like the lab workups/prototypes worked like wonders because the engineers didn't have to think about cost at all. Honestly, why would they when there were so many obstacles to something as crazy as Kinect ever becoming a consumer product.

I guess a Surgery simulator can work with Kinect
Does the camera have 1:1 tracking?

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Easier but so much less cool.

This reminds me how DOS users felt about Windows. :lol

 

[The Crimson Kid]

For some reason or other I recently keep hearing how Nintendo's technology 'failed as a motion device' and didn't live up to potential. It made them billions! If Microsoft's tech makes them billions, they shouldn't care too much whether it works or not either.

Nintendo originally promised a controller that could basically detect motion, tilt, depth, angle, orientation, and position of the controller in a 3D space. (not sure about them specifically saying 3D space, but the others were all promised) Instead, we got a controller that tracks orientation well, tilt ok, and depth poorly only if pointed at the screen, tracks basic motions if not pointed at the screen, and that's it. WiiMotionPlus brings the remote a lot closer to what their original vision was

Compared to what was promised when the Wii remote was announced, what we actually got fell far short and severely hampered the applications of motion in Wii games. There's a reason that most of the time there is motion in a Wii game, it is just waggle or always involves pointing at the screen. The tech isn't capable of doing much more with any kind of precision or consistency.

I distinctly remember SSX Blur, which was a near-launch Wii game that based the game mechanics around doing relatively complex gestures with the Remote for higher-scoring tricks. They were designing a game around what they were promised the Remote could do. When they found the Remote wouldn't be anywhere near as precise as what they thought, they couldn't redo the entire tricksystem/control scheme in time. As a result, the game was nigh-on-unplayable, the game bombed, and we haven't seen a single thing from the franchise since. Also, you haven't seen any more games try and put complex gestures in the center of their game mechanics.

Why? Under him, Xbox division have been very profitable. He oversee a new hardware re-launch that take care of the problem created by previous group of Xbox. Only fault I have with Xbox under Mattrick is that they seems (like most MS products) lack unify vision and structure. Other than that I don't have problem with hin running Xbox as there are many improvement since he took over.

Microsoft as a whole hasn't had a good idea of what to do since Gates left. Xbox definitely has started making some heavy cash since Mattrick took over, but they've also lost a large number of their first-party studios in the same time. Whether Mattrick stays as head of the studio or not depends on the success of Kinect at this point because they've sunk so much money into it.

I guess a Surgery simulator can work with Kinect
Does the camera have 1:1 tracking?

Yes it does, and in 3D space to boot, but just for head, chest, and large appendages. It doesn't get down to the detail required to see finger movement or recognize facial expressions.

This image might help:

 

[CamHostage]

OMG real example of games journalism OMG

Yep, and they've been rewarded for their work by having all the key points pulled out and disseminated on a forum so users don't even have to do them the courtesy of clicking on their web page for a measly ad hit, much less buy the magazine. The blame for the death of journalism cannot be placed solely on the shoulders of the journalists.

Total puff piece. It doesn't discuss any of the issues/concerns that have arisen about the tech since its unveiling, and doesn't even mention the Wii as a factor in Kinect's development.

It's early on in the cycle and so the "dirt" is still pushed off to the corners (unless a project has gone south, there aren't a lot of whistleblowers to drag down a launching product,) but as far as the two points you bring up, the full article has a lot of detail that maybe glosses over your points, but they're sort of touched on. It focuses largely on technology development and scientific breakthroughs as well as the business maneuvers, and although you have some valid demands for an in-depth Kinect article (and yes, it's a fluffy article,) the details they do go into are ones that are not well known to the public whereas what you're talking about has been gone over.

Funny, they skip the part where PrimeSense tried to sell the technology first to Nintendo, then Sony (both of whom passed on it). :lol

They tried to sell a technology license, though, not the company, right? I don't know the story on how involved Nintendo discussions were, but my impression of the Sony showing was that they were demoing the concept and inviting the hardware maker into the building, but there was not ever a commitment made by Marks' team. And it didn't seem like PrimeSense went to one and then another and then another, it's more likely that all three manufacturers (and some videogame software publishers) were in introductory discussions about the same time. I'm not sure you can infer that Nintendo and Sony rejected the technology. MS made the commitment, while Sony and Nintendo for their own reasons (and there are many documented reasons, some negative about the 3D sensor technology but many more just simply business choices) did not commit.

 

[Shaneus]

I've just had an idea: create an add-on for the 360 controller that allows it to be easily tracked by the Kinect. Hey presto, you have motion sensing on a smaller, more accurate scale, with buttons, that can also track full body movements if needed.

Wouldn't have to be a great big glowing LED ball like with the move, just something that differentiates it from the rest of the environment and can detect something simple like tilting left and right.

 

[Jewbacca]

Or you can make a glove that provides feedback and a basic system to detect fingers movements to the xbox 360, if you want to go that far.

Im sure the tech is there to make it basic enough and non intrusive enough to feel like normal gloves.

But it will never happen because that is not the point of kinect.

 

[FoneBone]

Yep, and they've been rewarded for their work by having all the key points pulled out and disseminated on a forum so users don't even have to do them the courtesy of clicking on their web page for a measly ad hit, much less buy the magazine. The blame for the death of journalism cannot be placed solely on the shoulders of the journalists.

Is this a joke? It's one thing to complain if someone's posting all or most of the article, but excerpting and discussing key points is morally wrong? Give me a fucking break.

 

[distrbnce]

Yep, and they've been rewarded for their work by having all the key points pulled out and disseminated on a forum so users don't even have to do them the courtesy of clicking on their web page for a measly ad hit, much less buy the magazine. The blame for the death of journalism cannot be placed solely on the shoulders of the journalists.

That's the nature of information in the information age.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Nintendo originally promised a controller that could basically detect motion, tilt, depth, angle, orientation, and position of the controller in a 3D space. (not sure about them specifically saying 3D space, but the others were all promised) Instead, we got a controller that tracks orientation well, tilt ok, and depth poorly only if pointed at the screen, tracks basic motions if not pointed at the screen, and that's it. WiiMotionPlus brings the remote a lot closer to what their original vision was

Compared to what was promised when the Wii remote was announced, what we actually got fell far short and severely hampered the applications of motion in Wii games. There's a reason that most of the time there is motion in a Wii game, it is just waggle or always involves pointing at the screen. The tech isn't capable of doing much more with any kind of precision or consistency.

I distinctly remember SSX Blur, which was a near-launch Wii game that based the game mechanics around doing relatively complex gestures with the Remote for higher-scoring tricks. They were designing a game around what they were promised the Remote could do. When they found the Remote wouldn't be anywhere near as precise as what they thought, they couldn't redo the entire tricksystem/control scheme in time. As a result, the game was nigh-on-unplayable, the game bombed, and we haven't seen a single thing from the franchise since. Also, you haven't seen any more games try and put complex gestures in the center of their game mechanics.

Uh, can you point to where Nintendo "promised" any of these things? Not to call you a liar but I don't remember them promising anything.

 

[JaggedSac]

They tried to sell a technology license, though, not the company, right? I don't know the story on how involved Nintendo discussions were, but my impression of the Sony showing was that they were demoing the concept and inviting the hardware maker into the building, but there was not ever a commitment made by Marks' team. And it didn't seem like PrimeSense went to one and then another and then another, it's more likely that all three manufacturers (and some videogame software publishers) were in introductory discussions about the same time. I'm not sure you can infer that Nintendo and Sony rejected the technology. MS made the commitment, while Sony and Nintendo for their own reasons (and there are many documented reasons, some negative about the 3D sensor technology but many more just simply business choices) did not commit.

Wasn't even PrimeSense, it was 3DV.