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[Messofanego]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkIKbTiuJ9A

Not the best investigation or murder mystery game, but the best depiction of detective characters.

If it bothers people, SPOILERS from 3:18 to 3:53 on the Bloody Baron, huntsman, and personalities of prostitutes to illustrate their point about the importance of characters.

Good video by Extra Credits on the history of detective fiction and how Witcher 3 borrows a lot from detective novels, specifically the American pulpy hard-boiled kind. Focusing on characters, scenes, and mirroring of the real world (as found in noir) rather than just the mystery and puzzles which is how British detective fiction worked. Journey and scenes being more important than the plot. How the game is able to do that as an open world narrative is even more commendable.

I still have to properly give all my time to Her Story but I believe that's less about the detective character role rather than the suspect and investigation aspects.

 

[Dark_castle]

Yeah I really enjoyed Geralt talking to himself while doing the investigation.

 

[Aizo]

Best video they've done in a while. One of them really knows the genre well. Listing the classics such as Rue Morgue and focusing on Chandler—that's awesome.

Now, can I have a Japanese detective fiction inspired game?

 

[tuxfool]

Now, can I have a Japanese detective fiction inspired game?

What would characterize Japanese detective fiction?

 

[Messofanego]

I still haven't picked this game up lol. Man, a job really changes habits.

 

[Walpurgis]

Yeah I really enjoyed Geralt talking to himself while doing the investigation.

Agreed. It's fun to try to guess what happened based on his observations before he figures it out. I remember he once got caught talking to himself by a weird old lady who lost her frying pan in White Orchid. It was pretty funny.

 

[Brandon F]

Haven't watched yet, but to be fair Batman has been mumbling through leads and guessing based on clues in total monologue going back to Asylum no differently.

 

[Cameron122]

When I got Wild Hunt I didn't know it was going to have detective mechanics but I am so glad it does

 

[LegalEagleMike]

Use your Witcher Senses!

 

[Souless Squirrel]

Really well done video shows how well put together the witcher 3 is.

 

[toastyToast]

It would be nice if it didn't always boil down to use your witcher senses.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

This is the reason I prefer Roche's path in TW2. It is more a mystery story while Iorveth's is more of a hired gun fetching stuff kind of thing.

 

[Cheat Code]

Hold L1 and look for the red thing doesn't strike me as the most fun form of detective gameplay.

 

[Cathcart]

Yeah well joke's on you, it's L2.

 

[tuxfool]

Hold L1 and look for the red thing doesn't strike me as the most fun form of detective gameplay.

You didn't watch the video, did you?

 

[diamount]

I couldn't get past 50 seconds with that weird modification of his voice, why has he done that?

 

[Cameron122]

Tad off topic, but what are some classic detective stories? Should I just jump into Doyle's work?

 

[Cheat Code]

You didn't watch the video, did you?

A good detective game needs good detective gameplay.

Witcher 3 doesn't have it, therefore it's not the best detective game. Sure it has interesting turns in the stories and all that lovely stuff, but that doesn't even slightly contribute to it being a good detective game.

Play one of the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes games, that's what we should be aiming for in a detective game, actual detecting of things.

 

[nynt9]

A good detective game needs good detective gameplay.

Witcher 3 doesn't have it, therefore it's not the best detective game. Sure it has interesting turns in the stories and all that lovely stuff, but that doesn't even slightly contribute to it being a good detective game.

Play one of the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes games, that's what we should be aiming for in a detective game, actual detecting of things.

I played those games, and they're way too hand-holdup. You basically go through the motions of finding the right hole for the pegs you find lying around.

The most recent one even has a "detective vision" button iirc

The video isn't about the gameplay anyway.

 

[TemplaerDude]

His commentary is interesting but the entire mechanic consists of holding the left trigger and looking for the shiny thing. Meh.

 

[fedexpeon]

Yeah I really enjoyed Geralt talking to himself while doing the investigation.

I thought Geralt was being dumb.
During some part, I was like holy shit man...can we just skip over this part! Of course it is a vampire!
And 5mins later...Yup, vampire.

 

[Philippo]

I think that The Witcher 3 does not have the best investigation/detective gameplay, but it sure has the best detective character in the whole industry.

Spoiler

Combined with the whole preparation before fight thing, it's basically Fantasy Batman at its finest.

 

[KHlover]

It's not just the best detective simulator, it's also the best "Going-to-a-special-occasion-with-your-GF-simulator". That was one of the best quests I ever played.

Early-Mid story spoilers:

Spoiler

First you have the choice between wearing the clothes Yennefer chose for you or to wear your own clothes. Of course I wore my own. Before entering the feast Geralt and Yennefer agree not to drink anything. Of course my Geralt then drank with the Jarl kids, had a race with one of them, beat the snot out of some other guy and then drank again. Yennefer looking more and more pissed as the feast goes on (mad props to the facial animators!!!) may have been one of my favorite moments ever.

10/10 GOTY

 

[Nordicus]

The video isn't about the gameplay anyway.

Indeed, the gameplay might not be at a level where it'd excel as an investigative game, but damn does Witcher 3 capture the spirit of pulp detective fiction.

You could draw parallels between some of the aspects of the witcher profession and film noir private eye

 

[dlauv]

I wasn't expecting what was in the vid. It was less about the gameplay (if at all) and more about how the game's structure follows the structure of hard-boiled detective fiction to a T.

 

[Anjin M]

I've already been weakening in my resolve not to buy this too soon. But now that it's being compared to pulp detective fiction, I don't think I can hold out much longer.

 

[tuxfool]

A good detective game needs good detective gameplay.

You're missing the point of the video. The whole point was the narrative structure of the game and the affordances provided by detective stories.

The reason I asked is because they even make that distinction in the video.

 

[Turin Turambar]

In the Witcher 1 there was a character and a entire quest that were, in fact, homages to Philip Marlowe. So I suppose I can't be surprised the Witcher writers are heavily inspired by pulp detective genre, lol.

 

[Hopeford]

Man, that was a nice video. I really enjoyed that, not often I see that super obscure detective fiction stuff show up there. While on the topic of detective fiction, I'm gonna go ahead and make a case that Phoenix Wright is the best British detective game.

John Dickson Carr--who was himself American, but wrote in the British style and lived in Britain for a long time--wrote an essay called "The Grandest Game in the World" where he outlined how to him, the idea behind a complex puzzle was to challenge the reader to solve it before the reader did. If I may drop a few quotes from that wonderful essay:

"It is a hoodwinking contest, a duel between author and reader. "I dare you," says the reader, "to produce a solution which I can't anticipate." "Right!" says the author, chuckling over the consciousness of some new and legitimate dirty-trick concealed up his sleeve, And then they are at it-pull-devil, pull-murderer-with the reader alert for every dropped clue, every betraying speech, every contradiction that may mean guilt."

This approach is interesting because way before video games existed, some British writers(especially Carr) downright approached mystery fiction as a game. Much like how Raymond Chandler(cited in the video) criticized detective fiction for not having real characters and relevant social issues, Carr criticized hardboiled fiction for not having enough of a puzzle. No mysterious "How did the body get moved without anyone seeing?" locked room mystery that keeps someone hitting a pipe against their prized wooden desk.

“The "literary" type, like the hard-boiled, is too apt to mistake style for substance. It imagines that with good writing, which sometimes becomes merely pretentious writing, you can disguise the lack of an original plot.
"Come, now!" the author seems to be saying. "I am really a straight novelist, you know, indulging in this funny little medium of the detective story because nowadays it's become respectable. It's true I haven't got much of a mystery, or any very clear idea of how to handle it; but, if I give you strong characterizations and much talk-in-a-mist, you won't mind that?"
To which the answer is: Sir or madam, we do mind.
Either you neglect the plot, which is bad; or else you fall off those stilts with a crash, which is worse.”

Not to say that one approach is better than the other, but I just figured it would be neat to hold up the differences in approach between Witcher and Phoenix Wright. In the former, relevant social issues about sexuality are brought up through investigation and dealt with it as they relate to the characters. By contrast, in Phoenix Wright, when a character's gender becomes a plot point in Dual Destinies, it is only relevant to our protagonist in terms of "Alright, how does your sexuality relate to how this mysterious body appeared inside a locked room?"

It's just funny to see how those two games can prioritize such different ends of detective fiction and be that damn good at what they are.

(Also worth noting that in Japan, more traditional British styled mysteries are still relevant nowadays while the west has adopted a more hardboiled approach even with shows like CSI. I feel like this ought to have been mentioned somewhere but couldn't fit it anywhere else in my post).

Sorry for rambling, I'm just a HUGE fan of detective fiction so I could go on for hours about this topic haha.

 

[davey_jones_1217]

Indeed, the gameplay might not be at a level where it'd excel as an investigative game, but damn does Witcher 3 capture the spirit of pulp detective fiction.

You could draw parallels between some of the aspects of the witcher profession and film noir private eye

That's a good thing, for a character who is, in part, inspired by Philip Marlowe. It's one thing I've always liked about the series, the books and the games.