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[Always-honest]

Pro support will be fine when Scorpio is out.

But there will still be games that won't get the full treatment because of XboxOne and PS4 standard.

 

[fantomena]

A few reasons why it should do better with devs.

MS is better at rallying the Dev troops

MS tools are normally better so adding support should be easier

MS gave Devs 18 months to prep and not 6.

Can you explain each of these better? Like what do you mean with rallying devs? Like making devs develop games for their system? Cause they are really bad at that looking at how many indie games and Japanese games that are either not coming or coming perhaps a year later on the Xbone.

 

[geordiemp]

Lol jokepost?

LOL bad at maths ? What is 2.3 Ghz vs 2.1 Ghz ?

Scorpio is only 9,5 % faster at running games, yes its much better at pumping out IQ, but my point was none of these consoles will run a game like Witcher 3 or Red Dead 2 at anything other than 30 FPS. My post was in the context of posters 60 FPS point, these mid gen consoles are about IQ only and frame rate stability, but not 30 to 60.

Pro has had lots of > 1080p support, so Scorpio will also get lots of > 1080p titles from AAA. So I dont understand the OP's point.

Anybody disappointed about Pro / Scorpio offerings needs to spend some time reading about IPC / CPU's and Jaguar and be more informed.

And yes as a Pro owner higher resolutions was worth it for me on my 4K set. But I had disposable money at the time, if I had not the cash it was not a necessity for sure.

 

[BigDug13]

LOL bad at maths ?

What is 2.3 Ghz vs 2.1 Ghz ?

Scorpio is only 9,5 % faster at running games, yes its much better at pumping out IQ, but my point was none of these consoles will run a game like Witcher 3 or Red Dead 2 at anything other than 30 FPS.

Games are better at maintaining 30fps this gen it seems like. I found AC4 damn near unplayable on 360 at low 20's FPS until I got it on the PS4. The fear with the Pro was that it would cause devs to push their game to run 30fps on the Pro and end up compromising the PS4 with framerate dips. Thankfully that hasn't been the case, probably because we have a new TV resolution to shoot for. Same for Scorpio. Since devs will always have to maintain OG XBone levels, it will just end up just being a 4K upgrade for games.

 

[Shari]

Like in every other thread like this I will just link:

I told you so

FWIW, I think support is going to get better thanks to Scorpio. Having 2 console skus with high specs to target makes it easier to convince corporate that is worth to take the time to make those extra config profiles.

 

[geordiemp]

A few reasons why it should do better with devs.

MS is better at rallying the Dev troops

MS tools are normally better so adding support should be easier

MS gave Devs 18 months to prep and not 6.

Nah, most AAA western games already have Ps4 pro enhancements, cant think of any that dont, will be same for Scorpio.

Trying to say it was a master plan is funny to read, dev troops lol. You are serious ?

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

I think Scorpio's raw horsepower will make it decently supported. With Pro, especially if you use something like checkerboard rendering or temporal injection, you need to put in some extra work to get it set up properly for good results.

I do think that once Scorpio is out that both will be supported since it's the Pro won't be the only improved console around.

If it takes extra effort for that 4k checkerboard, it's a real disappointment that they aren't focusing towards pushing for 60fps from all games, as a non 4k owner all I wanted from games for a long long long time is to embrace 60fps!

 

[Tyaren]

I hope/expect the PS4 Pro will benefit from the release of Scorpio too.
Sony will finally need to implement forced downsampling as well. They can't just let the Microsoft console claim that feature for itself.
Developers of multiplatform games too will have to take improvements more seriously, because they now have two consoles and a bigger audience, that is going to expect improvements for their consoles.

 

[black070]

Like in every other thread like this I will just link:

I told you so

FWIW, I think support is going to get better thanks to Scorpio. Having 2 console skus with high specs to target makes it easier to convince corporate that is worth to take the time to make those extra config profiles.

Except only a handful of retail releases since the Pro's launch don't support the Pro (Prey has been patched with it).

 

[nowheretorun]

Then you weren't an informed buyer.

What if a person bought a Pro because, it was and still is, advertised as supporting SS for 1080p screens - yet the titles that person bought that Pro for, doesn't support SS?

What if that SS was there and was then removed?

Shall I link to the thread here about SS being arbitrarily removed?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum//showthread.php?t=1340484

Or titles that have Pro support running worse than on base Ps4 - Skyrim being a waste of my £30 because of...

How is this not an informed buyer?

 

[BigDug13]

If it takes extra effort for that 4k checkerboard, it's a real disappointment that they aren't focusing towards pushing for 60fps from all games, as a non 4k owner all I wanted from games for a long long long time is to embrace 60fps!

Don't buy a console ever if this is your focus. Get a PC. Consoles have not been about framerates for a long, long time. People who expect them to make that shift to 60fps standard should just be ready for disappointment. It's simply not ever going to happen.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Don't buy a console ever if this is your focus. Get a PC. Consoles have not been about framerates for a long, long time. People who expect them to make that shift should just be ready for disappointment. It's simple not ever going to happen.

One can hope for a future console that sets 60fps as a standard. And I have no clue about building pc, thus console is where I look to game!

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Not holding it back for the sake of the Xbox One (And PS4) would actually be stupid....

You don't make a game for the 2 million people who own a PS4 Pro or an Xbox One.

You make your game for the 30 million people who own the XOne and the PS4.

Money trumps everything.

PS4 pro has sold 12 million units since its launch according to SONY , one in 5 PS4 owners are pro owners with 60million units accounted for. PS4 pro install base is by no means small or am I getting the stats incorrect?

 

[Ovek]

I can see a future of a lot of cross platform games not using the power of the scorpio.

You will get 4k at a "stable" 30fps and like it.

 

[black070]

PS4 pro has sold 12 million units since its launch according to SONY , one in 5 PS4 owners are pro owners with 60million units accounted for. PS4 pro install base is by no means small or am I getting the stats incorrect?

That's not how it works - 1 in 5 PS4's being sold are Pro's since it's release in October.

 

[BLAUcopter]

Why be so pointlessly pessimistic

Welcome to the internet.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

That's not how it works - 1 in 5 PS4's being sold are Pro's since it's release in October.

Ah well then it's a pretty small number of pros out there! Thank you for that!

 

[big_z]

PS4 pro has sold 12 million units since its launch according to SONY , one in 5 PS4 owners are pro owners with 60million units accounted for. PS4 pro install base is by no means small or am I getting the stats incorrect?

incorrect. since pro launched only 1 in 5 sales have gone towards it. around 2 million own a pro.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

What if a person bought a Pro because, it was and still is, advertised as supporting SS for 1080p screens - yet the titles that person bought that Pro for, doesn't support SS?

What if that SS was there and was then removed?

Shall I link to the thread here about SS being arbitrarily removed?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum//showthread.php?t=1340484

Or titles that have Pro support running worse than on base Ps4 - Skyrim being a waste of my £30 because of...

How is this not an informed buyer?

Sure there have been a few small problems and Skyrim is native 4k only dropping 1-3 frames, so is really not a massive issue, definitely not a waste of £30, it's not like it's a broken mess. Most games do run and look better though.

 

[BigTnaples]

Thank you... And lets not forget the benefits of the pro has on psvr

Thanks I meant to add that but I got busy at work.


Game is invaluable to my many PSVR games. Even more so than with standard games. Adds so much for clarity and immersion..


Edited into my previous post.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Better hardware with less work required to get good results. Resolution and higher rez textures easy to hit.

Possibly better dev tools on the MS side, and certainly better dev hardware.

More time since the arrival of mid gen consoles, giving devs time to adjust.

2 of these consoles now on the market making them less easy to ignore. Helps PS Pro too.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

incorrect. since pro launched only 1 in 5 sales have gone towards it. around 2 million own a pro.

Makes sense!

 

[hanspampel]

Because Pro and Scorpio are now already 2 reason for support

 

[wesleyshark]

I think you'll see more devs focus on Pro support once Scorpio is out. That being said, the way Scorpio handles games means more titles will automatically benefit right out of the gate.

 

[Rmagnus]

Hmm I don't see why developers will put in more work unless they have some incentive to

 

[-hadouken]

I hope/expect the PS4 Pro will benefit from the release of Scorpio too.

Me too, tho realistically both mid-gen boxes will still be dragged down by the 2013 consoles for quite some. That's where the market is - and devs are going to be reluctant to piss off the majority for the sake of a tiny segment of the pie.

 

[Animagne]

Xbox practically has no games so easier for them to support everything.

 

[Deja]

I think because Sony didn't really need it, but MS need to close the gap, and bring people back to them.

 

[geordiemp]

I can see a future of a lot of cross platform games not using the power of the scorpio.

You will get 4k at a "stable" 30fps and like it.

But that is exactly what Scorpio is for and that is the power of Scorpio, 4K and IQ.

We wont be getting 30 to 60 FPS upgrades until consoles come out with Zen / Ryzen or Intel class CPU's. Scorpio and Pro are too weak for that.

I think you'll see more devs focus on Pro support once Scorpio is out. That being said, the way Scorpio handles games means more titles will automatically benefit right out of the gate.

Not really, every large AAA game this year has pro support already, cant remember anything I have bought this year that does not, so Scorpio will also get it.

Tell me, what big games this year missed Pro support ? I cant think of any ,....

 

[Agent_ShortBus]

I think it'll be mostly first party titles that will go out of their way to add anything worthwhile and 3rd party will just do minimum upgrades to visuals and performance. I wont be upgrading to either scorpio or pro because I have a PC anyways. Hopefully they make the console affordable.

 

[takriel]

Xbox practically has no games so easier for them to support everything.

Dat edge.

 

[peppers]

Supposedly MS improved the XDK big time as well as the tools for developing Scorpio ready games, so that would be a reason.
I'm planning on getting a Pro myself and I don't find its support being specially lackluster. It's not as good as it could, sure, but Uncharted 4, Ratchet and Clank and hopefully the new Spiderman game look great, as good as they can I'd say.

 

[geordiemp]

Supposedly MS improved the XDK big time as well as the tools for developing Scorpio ready games, so that would be a reason.
I'm planning on getting a Pro myself and I don't find its support being specially lackluster. It's not as good as it could, sure, but Uncharted 4, Ratchet and Clank and hopefully the new Spiderman game look great, as good as they can I'd say.

Eh ? I have 2 ps4 pro. Tell me what games this year did not have pro support.

Maybe indie games or small stuff, but all major releases had it. I dont get your point.

Why say hopefully when every big western game has a Pro mode this year ?

 

[Collateral22]

I can see a future of a lot of cross platform games not using the power of the scorpio.

You will get 4k at a "stable" 30fps and like it.

What more would people being expecting though?

 

[hanspampel]

Xbox practically has no games so easier for them to support everything.

Dayum Junior
That's a great mocking post

 

[Shai-Tan]

what's funny? Pro support has been shit quite frankly. Its not lived up to its promise and Sony dont even enforce devs to use the extra power. As it stands the pro is not good value for money.

Lack of proper Pro support in almost all currents games is down to technical issues. The Pro isn't that powerful to pull off everything we would like, therefore developers are left with choices to make.

The Scorpio won't have those same issues since it is so powerful those aims will be achieved far more easily. Pretty much all new AAA titles have good Pro support. The Pro has proven its worth already, imo. The scorpio will be great, especially for people with large 4k screens.

Yeah it's hard for me to understand what the person above is referring to. I'm aware there's a few bad implementations but every recent game I bought has good Pro support. I'm going to guess they are one of the people who either want all games to retroactively support the Pro (silly) or one of the people who want graphics options to have quality/performance modes (more reasonable)

 

[Spukc]

Microsoft is the one behind.
They did nothing but amazing things for gamers last years.

This is something they want to work 😎

 

[Akai__]

I would say 2 consoles that support stuff like higher resolutions is twice the incentive for devs now, isn't it?

I'm fine with whatever, honestly. But I hope that people get what they want. Would be kinda shitty and pointless, otherwise.

 

[mindsale]

I could be mistaken, but isn't this going to boil down to a matter of policy? Doesn't Sony require minimal asset upgrades for Pro support?

If I recall, Microsoft stipulated Scorpio support was entirely voluntary. And dev kits only went out three months ago.

If pre-2008 voluntary Trophy support on PS3 is any indication, no developer is going to do anything if they don't have to. Which is a shame, because I own a Pro and I can't wait to own a Scorpio. I'd love to see Shadow of War sing.

Please correct me if I've misunderstood any of the above.

 

[Jumeira]

Its just much better thought out. And MS will be putting much more effort into it then Sony perhaps funding Scorpio upgrades, felt like Sony just threw the Pro out there without any spectacle and the fans cobbled together what they could to understand differences. It feels like a botched rollout (PS4Pro).

Also seems MS have greater confidence in their upgrade then Sony does, even promoting the dev boxes!

 

[peppers]

Eh ? I have 2 ps4 pro. Tell me what games this year did not have pro support.

Maybe indie games or small stuff, but all major releases had it. I dont get your point.

Why say hopefully when every big western game has a Pro mode this year ?

No, I meant that I hope Spiderman looks great since we haven't seen much from it. I don't doubt it will get Pro support, although briefly, they even showed it on the reveal event.

 

[Trup1aya]

When Pro upgrades are the biggest complaint when valuating the Pro, what makes you think that anyone other than the rare 3rd party and First party games are really going to take advantage of a 4th sku to optimize console games to?

If companies cant be bothered to implement anything more than the most rudimentary upgrades to games on the Pro vs Standard PS4, I just cant see those companies going out of the way to upgrade even further for Scorpio for an even smaller install base.

I would love to be wrong, but after 9 months of owning a Pro and not feeling like i've realized the value of upgrading yet ( with small exceptions and some VR improvements), I just don't see it happening.

I think the three main factors are

1) every game will benefit from being played on Scorpio, even without support from the dev
2) the way the system was designed should make support easier on the dev
3) there's a lot of buzz around the notion that key 3rd party devs have already gotten impressive results

 

[geordiemp]

I could be mistaken, but isn't this going to boil down to a matter of policy? Doesn't Sony require minimal asset upgrades for Pro support?

If I recall, Microsoft stipulated Scorpio support was entirely voluntary. And dev kits only went out three months ago.

Policy and PR is just a load of bullcap. NO...

Every big western game this year has had pro support and extras. Scorpio will be same.

How marketing departments want to dress that up with minimums or whatever, who cares ?

Lets make a policy, every scorpio game is better than Xb1, whoah, revelation, or its up to devs ....MY god, write an article.

LOL.

 

[OnionPowder]

But that is exactly what Scorpio is for and that is the power of Scorpio, 4K and IQ.

We wont be getting 30 to 60 FPS upgrades until consoles come out with Zen / Ryzen or Intel class CPU's. Scorpio and Pro are too weak for that.

By the time that happens the games won't run on the ps4 pro or Scorpio as it'll need to be a new console generation. Then games will just target 30fps on the new hardware

Cycle repeats forever.

 

[Animagne]

Eh ? I have 2 ps4 pro. Tell me what games this year did not have pro support.

Persona 5 didn't get pro support. I know it had launched in Japan last year, but according to neo leaks, every game released in September had to do a patch later.

 

[Bull_peeler]

The point is a system name can make or break. I'm on the "the Wii-U was a travesty of a name that hurt system potential" train. Wii owners thought it was an add on they didn't need. I originally thought, just based on the name, that it was an educational addon for the Wii.

Xbox Scorpio doesn't sound anything like Xbox One. It's going to be thought of as a new console with new generation expectations. PS4 Pro doesn't because for 20+ years, Sony has stuck to numerical iterations. So the expectations for the Pro weren't next-gen level.

Since the PS4 is already selling like crazy, will people be ready to switch it up for the Scorpio? Will it really do sales-wise what it is trying to do? Will the name confuse non-hardcore-gamers who don't do research about what to expect? If they expect the system to be true next gen based on the name not resembling the One in any way, shape, or form, will they be disappointed when the result is a small increase over the Pro which is a small increase over PS4 which is a small increase over the One?

This makes sense and I now understand what you meant. Thank you for clarifying!

 

[black070]

Persona 5 didn't get pro support. I know it had launched in Japan last year, but according to neo leaks, every game released in September had to do a patch later.

Unless Atlus went back and patched it in, the localisation team wasn't going to do it. Same case with Yakuza 0. Yakuza 6 however, will support it.

 

[geordiemp]

By the time that happens the games won't run on the ps4 pro or Scorpio as it'll need to be a new console generation. Then games will just target 30fps on the new hardware

Cycle repeats forever.

Not really, there is a difference between high frame rate capable and high IQ.

We are already getting 4K games and IQ since last year, its diminishing returns now (hell 1800c looks like 4K on my 50 inch Panny). Where is there to go ?

A 3 Ghz Ryzen is going to run code 250 % faster, next gen will be 60 FPS same way PC gaming is 60, because most PC's have fast CPU's.

What you are saying is devs will go with 8K30 over 4K60 ? I dont buy that view at all.

Remember Frostbite Mass Effect they said they were CPU limited to 8 good AI enemies and 30 FPS. If we do get 30 FPS games that 250 % will be used for masses of smart AI (which again will be good for certain genres instead of the fucking empty open worlds we get today)

Persona 5 didn't get pro support. I know it had launched in Japan last year, but according to neo leaks, every game released in September had to do a patch later.

Oh that Ps3 looking game from a Japanese developer, my point still stands. Did anyone expect Atlus to be cutting edge tech on anything lol.

Talking about big AAA western devs.

 

[ethomaz]

this is correct...It is default

I was under impression 16xAF is forced for BC.

Everything else is up to devs... so if dev choose not 16xAF in their patch you won't have it.

 

[tuna_love]

i feel like geordie enjoys telling people about having two ps4 pro