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With people thinking Nintendo should be a software company...

I doubt anyone is saying Nintendo is in danger of going bankrupt. Thing is, this chart shows Net Income instead of Operating income... meaning its not a proper indication of how well Nintendo's hardware/software sales are doing. Operating Income is what carries business decisions.

When you look at the operating income for Nintendo:

- loss 500m in 2011
- loss 360m in 2012
- loss 290m in Q1/Q2 of 2014, still far off from their target of 950m in operating profit. 3Ds and WiiU target projections also looking like misses.

Well, this is Operating Income:

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Again, we're still looking at 50+ years of 2011-2014 sorts of issues before it starts to actually become an actual danger.

Obviously they wouldn't want to let that sort of thing go on for too long, but the point is, they have that cushion.

(Oh yeah, for anyone who doesn't want to count the 0s on that graph, the line near the top where their graph ends is $35 Billion)
 
Obviously they wont do it, my point was they have the option to release many more home consoles because of their vast wealth, esp when they have what is still a very successful handheld business (yes I know 3DS sales are behind DS and the 2013 3DS numbers are a bit behind 2012 numbers).

The biggest difference between Nintendo and Sega are the IP's. The mass appeal of Mario, Mario Kart, Smash, Zelda, Donkey Kong and Metroid doesn't disappear overnight.

Side question, does anyone know the overall current market value of Nintendo, Sega, MS and Sony ?. I think Wiki says Nintendo are worth $85 billion but that can't be right can it ?...

Some people think they can and will though. You see the warchest argument come up far too often here as a reason that Nintendo's current strategies are acceptable.

I also don't think their IPs will help much if they continue to struggle like they are with the WiiU. If less people are playing them that diminishes their relevance, so after a few more failed consoles they could be in a much worse position than they are now even if the finances don't indicate that directly.


And I'm not saying Nintendo should definitely go third party or anything, but if they are they should do it while they're still sitting on a lot of money, and if they aren't they need to make some drastic changes.

Nintendo would experience a sharp decline in the quality and variety of their output if they went third party. I envision the Zelda and Metroid franchises falling off, like mediocre spin offs of each perhaps even one disappearing altogether, an over reliance and saturation of Mario titles, while other IP like f-zero and starfox lie dormant, and an overall depressingly safe and predictable output across the board, while they exclusively focus on family fare. Can you imagine a Nintendo like that?

This sounds oddly familiar! :lol
 
Nintendo would experience a sharp decline in the quality and variety of their output if they went third party. I envision the Zelda and Metroid franchises falling off, like mediocre spin offs of each perhaps even one disappearing altogether, an over reliance and saturation of Mario titles, while other IP like f-zero and starfox lie dormant, and an overall depressingly safe and predictable output across the board, while they exclusively focus on family fare. Can you imagine a Nintendo like that?
 
Nintendo would experience a sharp decline in the quality and variety of their output if they went third party. I envision the Zelda and Metroid franchises falling off, like mediocre spin offs of each perhaps even one disappearing altogether, an over reliance and saturation of Mario titles, while other IP like f-zero and starfox lie dormant, and an overall depressingly safe and predictable output across the board, while they exclusively focus on family fare. Can you imagine a Nintendo like that?

I have to admit, reading this post, it took a while for me until the penny dropped.
 
I doubt anyone is saying Nintendo is in danger of going bankrupt. Thing is, this chart shows Net Income instead of Operating income... meaning its not a proper indication of how well Nintendo's hardware/software sales are doing. Operating Income is what carries business decisions.

When you look at the operating income for Nintendo:

- loss 500m in 2011
- loss 360m in 2012
- loss 290m in Q1/Q2 of 2014, still far off from their target of 950m in operating profit. 3Ds and WiiU target projections also looking like misses.


None of this means Nintendo is doomed, but it does mean that Nintendo has to start rethinking its market strategies.
To be precise:

FY3 2012: 37.320.000.000 Yen loss (= 473.183.720 Dollar at that time)
FY3 2013: 36.464.000.000 Yen loss (= 441.841.407 Dollar at that time)
FY3 2014: 23.278.000.000 Yen loss (= 293.284.616 Dollar at that time) (two quarters)



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Going by the trends they should create operating profit this quarter, while they reduced their operating losses in comparison to the last years.


My point with the other chart was to show that we're far, far away of Nintendo going 3rd Party (if ever), so I don't know what the point of this discussion is.

That Nintendo needs to improve their current strategy is another topic.
 
Well personally I think they could have been successful with Wii U if it had a different name, came with a pro controller, no gamepad, and launched for $250 with a pack-in game. Nintendo really just needs to do what Sony did and get some new blood to put them on the right path. Nintendo has no Mark Cerny.
 
Well personally I think they could have been successful with Wii U if it had a different name, came with a pro controller, no gamepad, and launched for $250 with a pack-in game. Nintendo really just needs to do what Sony did and get some new blood to put them on the right path. Nintendo has no Mark Cerny.

Yeah, I mean Mark Cerny's latest game is the highest rated game of the new generation...oh wait :p

They have recently done a mass amount of hirings and have shuffled their higher ups considerably so they are changing things.
 
Well, this is Operating Income:

PYpJP.png


Again, we're still looking at 50+ years of 2011-2014 sorts of issues before it starts to actually become an actual danger.

Obviously they wouldn't want to let that sort of thing go on for too long, but the point is, they have that cushion.

(Oh yeah, for anyone who doesn't want to count the 0s on that graph, the line near the top where their graph ends is $35 Billion)

I'm not sure where those numbers are coming from but Nintendo def has not made 35 billion dollars in operating inc, that must be revenue.

And again, I never said Nintendo was doomed. I don't think anyone seriously thinks Nintendo is in danger of going bankrupt. However, that doesn't change the fact that Nintendo's core business is losing money and maybe they'll make some out of character decisions to mend it.
 
All Nintendo need to do is rejoin the console race putting itselft ahead in hardware power as Xbox one and PS4

They should hang on until ps5/Xbox 4 and launch then with hardware power competition, they need to catch up, that Wii success was a 1 off!
 
Some people think they can and will though. You see the warchest argument come up far too often here as a reason that Nintendo's current strategies are acceptable.

And I'm not saying Nintendo should definitely go third party or anything, but if they are they should do it while they're still sitting on a lot of money, and if they aren't they need to make some drastic changes.

But if we are talking about an extremely successful company going third party we definitely have to take their financial situation into account. Lately people seem to be judging Nintendo's whole career on the back of the performance of WiiU, they fail to take into account that the company has lost money once or twice in a year since it's been in the videogame industry.

If we are talking about companies not only going third party but bowing out of the industry altogether then I think MS and esp Sony are far more likely candidates. Nintendo were in this industry making consoles long before they arrived and I think they will still be doing it long after they leave.

Can someone post those Nintendo and Sega numbers in dollars ?.
 
Yeah, I mean Mark Cerny's latest game is the highest rated game of the new generation...oh wait :p

They have recently done a mass amount of hirings and have shuffled their higher ups considerably so they are changing things.

I was referring to the approach to hardware development. It's too late now for Wii U but going forward they need someone a bit more forward thinking to do their next system or better yet contract it out because they are failures at designing hardware.
 
I was referring to the approach to hardware development. It's too late now for Wii U but going forward they need someone a bit more forward thinking to do their next system or better yet contract it out because they are failures at designing hardware.

I'm sorry but Nintendo putting out a ps4 (aka a 500 dollar console) would doom them even further than going the low power route. Many people here fail to think clearly. Most Third parties wouldn't put their games on the platform even if there was parity and nobody would buy a 500 dollar Nintendo console let alone a 350 dollar one. They need to aim lower not higher
 
They're not doomed yet. See how the Wii U fairs at the end of the cycle. They can still appeal to poorer families and families interested in something safe for their kids. Off-screen play may be a lot more popular if remote-play and Vita take off too down the line and the hardware is enough to enjoy Nintendo games in new way.

We have to wait and see. Nintendo need to kick it the fuck up a notch though. I hope they are playing Tearaway 24/7 over at the HQ.
 
I'm not sure where those numbers are coming from but Nintendo def has not made 35 billion dollars in operating inc, that must be revenue.

And again, I never said Nintendo was doomed. I don't think anyone seriously thinks Nintendo is in danger of going bankrupt. However, that doesn't change the fact that Nintendo's core business is losing money and maybe they'll make some out of character decisions to mend it.

NeoGAF -> NeoGAF
 
Yeah, I mean Mark Cerny's latest game is the highest rated game of the new generation...oh wait :p

They have recently done a mass amount of hirings and have shuffled their higher ups considerably so they are changing things.

Mark Cerny is the PS4 hardware architect, you know.

Oh wait aren't you the heat wave guy? Continue on champ :lol
 
I agree with the moderator with the... somewhat disturbing username.

I definitely don't think that Nintendo going third party would result in the loss of the quality of their games. And I don't see much reasonable argument for why they would.

I, myself, am not exactly sure what Nintendo should do. But I do think that they need to do something differently. At least in the console market.
 
I don't see why Nintendo ( and the traditional gamers here) are so adamant about moving to mobile.

Traditionally handheld are in the same category as other standalone portable devices (GPS, tracker, personal organizer, audio recorder, music player etc etc), all of them are getting killed or have been eliminated by the smartphones. The whole personally computer business are moving toward mobile. The Nintendo handheld is no exception.

The only reason the 3DS is faring better than Vita is that Nintendo handheld targets younger and cheaper demography. And Apple want to keep the new iPod touch above 250 bux. As soon as Apple start releasing 99 iPod (the "5c" version of cheap iPods), and you know Samsung will make a rip off version too, 3DS is done for. This is where the whole technology industry is going. Nobody can stop it. No HP, no Dell or even Microsoft can stop this trend.

There are plenty of Nintendo IP that will work on touch screen. For example Warioware, Rhythm Heaven etc.
 
So its an accounting of all the money Nintendo has made in 30 years. Which makes it as useless as the Net Income graph when it comes to future market strategies.
I think you didn't get the point of the net income table.

Nintendo won't go 3rd Party anytime soon (if ever), so there's no point in discussing this topic.

It's probably the biggest version of port begging I've seen so far.
 
I think you didn't get the point of the net income table.

Nintendo won't go 3rd Party anytime soon (if ever), so there's no point in discussing this topic.

It's probably the biggest version of port begging I've seen so far.

Exactly. The main issue is this quote from the OP:

I mean if they stick to their guns and release Wii-U 2 and so on that doesn't pick up traction and bankruptcy becomes a possibility (though given how much money they've made elsewhere it could take years and years) then surely another Japanese company would try snapping them up. It's a company I imagine the Japanese would want to keep ownership within the country and Sony would have the most to gain from a buyout of Nintendo.

And the point is that sort of situation would take the better part of a half-century even in the worst-case scenario where the previous 3 years endlessly repeat themselves for the next 50.
 
Nintendo just needs to go third-party. They have control over some great IPs BUT they are always hamstrung by their wonky or underpowered systems.

I WOULD by Nintendo software if they were released on hardware I currently own. I WOULD NOT buy a Nintendo console just to play them.
 
I don't even know what the point of all this talk is.


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*FY3 2014 is two quarters only

I just showed this list to someone else. They want to know what the "8" and the "3" mean after the "FY" in the first column (something I didn't even notice LOL.)
 
Nintendo just needs to go third-party. They have control over some great IPs BUT they are always hamstrung by their wonky or underpowered systems.

I WOULD by Nintendo software if they were released on hardware I currently own. I WOULD NOT buy a Nintendo console just to play them.

I think we have already explain why this is stupid and will never happen.
 
There is no way in hell Sony would be able to aquire Nintendo, they are in a terrible financial position, while Nintendo might be declining in marketshare and mindshare, but still have tons of money in the bank and a lot of valuable properties.
 
This thread, and I mean the rehashing of this topic again and again, is getting old. Little new discussion occurs by bringing it up yet another time. The lack of business sense behind the suggestion is the most irritating part. It amounts to magical, wishful thinking: "Go 3rd party. Make profits!"

Let's break it down again.


1. 3rd party means no licensing fees.
1a. Wii sold 850 million units of software, only 350 of which were Nintendo first party, which means over 500 million x licensing fees. This isn't even counting the licensing fees from the DS/3DS. This is money that Nintendo would not garner if they were not producing their own platforms.

2. 3rd party would mean they have to PAY licensing fees. Do you realize that licensing fees can be up to $10 per unit? Do the math on 350,000,000 x $10. Think about that.

3. Expanding the user pool does not linearly increase sales potential. Just look at RE4 or Okami, both games that were re-released on platforms with huge install bases. Neither game saw linear increases in sales due to these new, huge install bases. There is no guarantee Nintendo will suddenly sell 100 million copies of NSMB, Mario Kart, etc, compared to the 20-30 million they sell now.
3a. Look at the reception "cartoony" games have received on Sony/MS platforms. Games like Rayman, Tearaway, Puppeteer, Little Big Planet have either bombed or barely scraped by. There's no guarantee that a system where the biggest sellers are God of War, Call of Duty, and Madden will greet Mario with open arms and open wallets.

That means Nintendo could easily see that 350 million units sold dwindle to 100 million (minus licensing fees).

4. Nintendo hardware, like it or not, is geared toward Nintendo software engineering. The hardware facilitates the software development process and the software compliments the hardware. It is a symbiotic relationship. Nintendo goes out there with new ideas and sometimes it hits and sometimes it doesn't, but the two always go hand in hand, from the N64 controller with its analog stick to the Gamecube with its weird buttons and on to the Wii Remote and the GamePad and the DS with its two screens. Take that away and you lose some of what makes Nintendo what it is, you lose some of the creative drive that results in games like Rhythm Heaven and Wii Sports.

5. Nintendo drives positive hardware features, from the d-pad to the gameboy printer to the IR pointer. Again, not every feature hits it big, but so much of what they've done has been copied by other companies that it would be a loss to have their unique approach to design taken away from the industry.


It's hardware that drives profits. That's why Sony and Microsoft wanted in on the action. That's why Sony and Microsoft are not 3rd party. The money is in licensing fees and using a platform to drive first party sales. Hardware is stable, even when it isn't profitable the first (or second) year. It's a stable investment, as long as you have the money to carry you through the R&D and launch years.

Don't buy the Wii U if you think it's a terrible thing with terrible effects on the industry. That's what I'm doing with the Xbox One (will never buy, period). Vote with your dollars and your voices if you want Nintendo to change their underpowered approach to hardware design. But use your heads if you want to make a compelling business argument, because "go mobile, go 3rd party" is about the worst advice to give Nintendo. You're asking a large, profitable company to cut off its head because maybe there's gold inside, maybe, I dunno but possibly.

That's why Iwata has stated that Nintendo will not get out of the hardware business, and if they do they will shut down rather than go 3rd party, because it means the death of the business, a massive reduction of their workforce, as well as of their finances, which will necessarily mean a decrease in their capacity for experimentation and thus a consolidation of their core assets into exploitable formats and software publishing models, much like EA and Activision. And that really would be the death of the company.
 
Nintendo just needs to go third-party. They have control over some great IPs BUT they are always hamstrung by their wonky or underpowered systems.

I WOULD by Nintendo software if they were released on hardware I currently own. I WOULD NOT buy a Nintendo console just to play them.

You don't buy Nintendo hardware = You don't play Nintendo games.

Seriously, you could say the same thing about any company. "I don't want to buy your hardware, so release your games for my console of choice"
 
I just showed this list to someone else. They want to know what the "8" and the "3" mean after the "FY" in the first column (something I didn't even notice LOL.)
FY3 2013 = Fiscal Year Enden in 3rd Month of 2013 (March 2013) -> April 2012 to March 2013

FY8 2001 = Fiscal Year Ended in 8th Month of 2001 (August 2013) -> September 2000 to August 2001


for example. ;)



Another fun fact looking through Nintendos financials:

They generate higher revenues with their hardware than with their software. (1 billion dollars more)
 
While Nintendo still has lots and lots of money. The real concern should be their perception that maybe permanently damage among the home console market, third party devs, and core gamers. Also remember that the stake holders aren't going to allow them to continuously support a product or division that's going to continue to lose money (regardless of how much they have saved up). I think they really need some new blood in the company and revise philosophy/policies.
 
cookie-monster said:
if these mythical loyal Nintendo fans went where the games were, this thread wouldn't exist.

Whether threads exist or not, doesn't mean these customers don't. They need to pay for hardware upfront to play these games, which would mean an outlay some are not prepared to pay, compared to the competition. The point being: One less hardware to buy, one less barrier, for some, to play.

Customers will pay for what they feel is a value proposition. These same customers can also not buy Nintendo games on another platform with the same reasons you make:

cookie-monster said:
basically the real reason behind these threads are a couple of groups of people wanting Nintendo to go third party for either a) console war or b) cheap ass reasons.

a) Pick any irrational reason.
b) Customers like value.

Frodo said:
Why would Nintendo ever abandon their independence and live under the wings and under the decisions and vision of another platform holder and their respective success first so Nintendo has a chance to be successful too is beyond me.

They haven't abandoned it yet because of that: They like control. They like to hedge their bets on the next best thing, with full control. However, it's not like the other platform holders live in a complete vacuum and Nintendo can't have any input on hardware, nor input on policies - too late for this round, but not for future rounds. The bottom line is what money they can make with the status quo compared to other options - short and long term.

Frodo said:
It makes no sense whatsoever.

At the very least it makes sense to evalute other options when you are in a financially strong position and not forced to make one decision because you have run out of options.
 
It would be interesting to find out what direction Nintendo will go after the Wii U if they're unable to turn it around. I don't think we're at the stage where Nintendo stops making hardware, but they're certainly at the crossroads.
 
You don't buy Nintendo hardware = You don't play Nintendo games.

Seriously, you could say the same thing about any company. "I don't want to buy your hardware, so release your games for my console of choice"

Yes you could BUT I say it about Nintendo because not since the N64 have I felt the need to purchase a Nintendo home console. They have been irrelevant for me even though I have owned multiple consoles in every console generation going back to my genesis SNES days...

The lack of third party support, underpowered systems and the constant rehash of first party titles. You are right I don't play Nintendo titles these days because I don't own any Nintendo hardware. They are missing out on people like me who would buy the occasional Nintendo IP if they would go third party.

Until they offer a system that interests me (which given the current direction the company has taken is highly unlikely) I will not be buying one and therefor not playing Nintendo games. It's a shame too because there are some games I'd like to play and would spend some cash on but I am not willing to drop and extra 200-300 for a separate system to play them on.
 
All Nintendo need to do is rejoin the console race putting itselft ahead in hardware power as Xbox one and PS4

They should hang on until ps5/Xbox 4 and launch then with hardware power competition, they need to catch up, that Wii success was a 1 off!
Without infrastructure to back it up they won't be able to compete in an XBL/PSN/Steam saturated market. The other consoles are way ahead and thinking deep into the future in these areas (PC is a given in this space).
 
Yes you could BUT I say it about Nintendo because not since the N64 have I felt the need to purchase a Nintendo home console. They have been irrelevant for me even though I have owned multiple consoles in every console generation going back to my genesis SNES days...

The lack of third party support, underpowered systems and the constant rehash of first party titles. You are right I don't play Nintendo titles these days because I don't own any Nintendo hardware. They are missing out on people like me who would buy the occasional Nintendo IP if they would go third party.

Until they offer a system that interests me (which given the current direction the company has taken is highly unlikely) I will not be buying one and therefor not playing Nintendo games. It's a shame too because there are some games I'd like to play and would spend some cash on but I am not willing to drop and extra 200-300 for a separate system to play them on.

You don't see the value in their consoles, which is fine, Nintendo needs to find a way to make gamers like you want to buy the system.

I'm a PC gamer that finds huge value on Nintendo consoles because they give me a different experience. I have no interest in the PS4/Xbone.

your argument sounds like: "I would only buy a PS4 to play Uncharted, why doesn't Sony sell me that game on PC/Xbox, they are missing out on people like me that would only buy Uncharted." I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but I hear it every single day around here haha.
 
It would be interesting to find out what direction Nintendo will go after the Wii U if they're unable to turn it around. I don't think we're at the stage where Nintendo stops making hardware, but they're certainly at the crossroads.
How do you come to this conclusion.

Their hardware market makes up half of their revenues if not more and it leads to the revenues of their other half, their software market.


Their financials suffer because of the Wii U production costs and it's price reduction.


They would just destroy their whole ecosystem.
 
Nintendo just needs to go third-party. They have control over some great IPs BUT they are always hamstrung by their wonky or underpowered systems.

I WOULD by Nintendo software if they were released on hardware I currently own. I WOULD NOT buy a Nintendo console just to play them.

Lol. What arrogance. To presume to tell a company that it NEEDS to go 3rd party because you yourself won't buy their hardware... but want them to give you access to their games. It beggars belief that anyone would presume to such demands.

Don't buy their hardware, then. But don't go port begging under the guise of faux righteousness. It is, at best, self-righteousness at its very worst.

I really, REALLY hate the term entitlement, but bugger me if this is not the acme of it.
 
Let's break it down again.


1. 3rd party means no licensing fees.
1a. Wii sold 850 million units of software, only 350 of which were Nintendo first party, which means over 500 million x licensing fees. This isn't even counting the licensing fees from the DS/3DS. This is money that Nintendo would not garner if they were not producing their own platforms.

2. 3rd party would mean they have to PAY licensing fees. Do you realize that licensing fees can be up to $10 per unit? Do the math on 350,000,000 x $10. Think about that.

Great post, the first two points above cannot be stressed enough and are the main reasons Nintendo will never go third party imo instead just choosing to concentrate on handhelds if their funds deplete enough.
 
Great post, the first two points above cannot be stressed enough and are the main reasons Nintendo will never go third party imo instead just choosing to concentrate on handhelds if their funds deplete enough.

I've been coming around, lately, to the idea that most of the people who say they want Ninty to go 3rd party, do not in fact want that. They just want to watch SMW burn.
 
This is a cute post, but Sony developing for 3DS wouldn't make up for all the lost licensing revenue they make off third parties. You know, the entire point of making consoles. So even if you assume the uncharteds, the killzones, the gran turismos, etc. would all be more profitable on that platform (which is far from a guarantee), Sony's game division would be pulling in significantly less cash than they are now.

Nintendo isn't in the same situation, since their home console business, the way it's set up right now, doesn't generate licensing revenue. So they're tanking their own company trying to sell the Wii U only to save paying, like, $10 royalties on their first party software were they to develop for other platforms. Sound like a good deal? Because it doesn't to me.

Another way to look at it is this. Activision sells crap loads of COD games every year. Should they just quit being a publisher and make their own console, like Nintendo? No, that would be a terrible, money losing, business tanking move. And yet Nintendo is doing just that.

that's really not the entire point of being a first-party. if you drive hardware sales well enough you can make the software you think will drive hardware sales instead of trying to reach an audience built by a first-party and the biggest third-parties on that platform, or carving out a niche for themselves on that platform.

i have yet to see a good reason why nintendo should stop making console games and focus on third-party titles for other platform holders while still making their own handheld. 'because their games would sell millions more' exists in the realm of fantasy, and ignores real world hardships that, believe me, i'm not spouting off as conjecture.

but maybe you have a point. as far as sony is concerned, they're only making a small amount of royalties off software in japan and maybe the uk. the vita is a dead console in america. but they could totally corner the mature market on the 3ds with god of war and gran turismo. imagine if they put ps one classics on the machine. they'd be reaching millions of people who never played final fantasy vii or crash bandicoot before. they would be making way more than the pittance they're earning from the vita. i don't have any real world data to back that up, but i have a feeling.
 
Without infrastructure to back it up they won't be able to compete in an XBL/PSN/Steam saturated market. The other consoles are way ahead and thinking deep into the future in these areas (PC is a given in this space).

Well, it's an image problem as well. Nintendo has always been viewed as a company geared towards families and children. A lot of gamers don't believe a Nintendo console is really catering to them.

That said, I believed from the start the Wii U needed to be more powerful this time around. I kind of suspected early on that it would be difficult for them to reach that audience again, especially at that price point. The Wii U looked and felt like a traditional gaming console. It didn't really have a new Wiimote-esque feature to sell it to that audience. And to top it off, it was far too expensive.

The direction Nintendo went with the Wii was a result of the loss in market share they had with the GameCube. However, at the time when Nintendo released the Wii U, things were a little different. The GameCube's failure was partly down to Nintendo's image, and the rising power of the Playstation name, but another issue at that time was game exclusivity. Developers were more willing to release their games on just one platform, which led to more and more success for the PS2. That's much less of an issue now. The majority of 3rd party developers release their games on multiple platforms. AAA game development has got so expensive that they have no choice but to release it on as many platforms as they can.

Software is not a problem for Nintendo anymore. If the Wii U was comparable to the Xbox One and PS4, developers would have supported it. Of course now, it is likely that the Wii U's software line up will get increasingly smaller as the generation goes on. That is just going to make Nintendo's job much more harder.
 
They've been out of their multiple decade-long profit streak for a year in one of their systems and the only solution you see for this "crumbling company" is to jump ship to sony or MS machines?

...uh okay lol

Yeah, this is what is a bit weird. Nintendo must have earned a lot of money from their previous stuff. And are they even losing money on Wii U, 3DS, and the games they release on these platforms?

Even if they did, they could probably support it for a long time. Even if they did, there's no reason for them to go third party only. If Nintendo did do that, the industry would be a much more shallow place - I don't play a lot of Nintendo games (I have a DS and a 3DS, but I rarely play.), but I think of Nintendo as one of, if not the most important company in gaming.

Nintendo releasing games on other platforms means that they'll probably have to start focusing on their hits only, and won't make any money from the "other games" that they also release on their platform. Nintendo games are Nintendo games - if they released third party, they'd just be a bunch of games among a bunch of other games.

Some might argue that they are already doing this, but, really, they seem to have released a ton of new IP's and "other" games, especially when compared to any other single company. And let's not forget the relative quality of Nintendo games.

I'm not sure if anyone actually thinks that their games would improve in quality, or even remain the same on other platforms - but I think it's obvious that they would struggle to develop for a third party console, and they would release lower quality games.
 
that's really not the entire point of being a first-party. if you drive hardware sales well enough you can make the software you think will drive hardware sales instead of trying to reach an audience built by a first-party and the biggest third-parties on that platform, or carving out a niche for themselves on that platform.

i have yet to see a good reason why nintendo should stop making console games and focus on third-party titles for other platform holders while still making their own handheld. 'because their games would sell millions more' exists in the realm of fantasy, and ignores real world hardships that, believe me, i'm not spouting off as conjecture.

but maybe you have a point. as far as sony is concerned, they're only making a small amount of royalties off software in japan and maybe the uk. the vita is a dead console in america. but they could totally corner the mature market on the 3ds with god of war and gran turismo. imagine if they put ps one classics on the machine. they'd be reaching millions of people who never played final fantasy vii or crash bandicoot before. they would be making way more than the pittance they're earning from the vita. i don't have any real world data to back that up, but i have a feeling.

Huh? I never said Sony should continue investing in handhelds. That market is dead to them, hence why they are pulling resources away from the platform and why there won't be a Vita successor. That's an appropriate, business savvy response to the situation. The inappropriate thing to would be to keep throwing good money after bad. The same reason Sony should get out of handhelds is the same reason Nintendo should get out of consoles. The writing is on the wall for both companies.
 
Huh? I never said Sony should continue investing in handhelds. That market is dead to them, hence why they are pulling resources away from the platform and why there won't be a Vita successor. That's an appropriate, business savvy response to the situation. The inappropriate thing to would be to keep throwing good money after bad. The same reason Sony should get out of handhelds is the same reason Nintendo should get out of consoles. The writing is on the wall for both companies.

my mistake (i don't mean that in the condescending sarcastic way). i thought you were one of the people arguing that nintendo does the third-party for ms/sony/valve, first-party for their handhelds thing. just focusing on one platform makes more sense.
 
Nintendo's biggest mistake with the Wii U was selling it at a loss from day one. And at $350. For last gen tech.

The gamepad has fucked them so hard it isn't even funny. They would be insane at this point to not be considering dropping the thing. They can still salvage this gen if they sell another 12 million units at a profit.
 
Nintendo's biggest mistake with the Wii U was selling it at a loss from day one. And at $350. For last gen tech.

The gamepad has fucked them so hard it isn't even funny. They would be insane at this point to not be considering dropping the thing. They can still salvage this gen if they sell another 12 million units at a profit.

i hope they really understand in design terms why the gamepad was not the wii remote or the ds's touch screen. it's crucial in moving forward.
 
Well, it's an image problem as well. Nintendo has always been viewed as a company geared towards families and children. A lot of gamers don't believe a Nintendo console is really catering to them.

That said, I believed from the start the Wii U needed to be more powerful this time around. I kind of suspected early on that it would be difficult for them to reach that audience again, especially at that price point. The Wii U looked and felt like a traditional gaming console. It didn't really have a new Wiimote-esque feature to sell it to that audience. And to top it off, it was far too expensive.

The direction Nintendo went with the Wii was a result of the loss in market share they had with the GameCube. However, at the time when Nintendo released the Wii U, things were a little different. The GameCube's failure was partly down to Nintendo's image, and the rising power of the Playstation name, but another issue at that time was game exclusivity. Developers were more willing to release their games on just one platform, which led to more and more success for the PS2. That's much less of an issue now. The majority of 3rd party developers release their games on multiple platforms. AAA game development has got so expensive that they have no choice but to release it on as many platforms as they can.

Software is not a problem for Nintendo anymore. If the Wii U was comparable to the Xbox One and PS4, developers would have supported it. Of course now, it is likely that the Wii U's software line up will get increasingly smaller as the generation goes on. That is just going to make Nintendo's job much more harder.

Agree with this post. I ask this question to some ppl....how many PS2 and orig Xbox games are being made?

Eventually PS3 and 360 games will start to die down. If the Wii U is more comparable to the PS3 and 360....Nintendo just seems to be one step behind....even with the Wii selling as well as it did. So far its proving true with sales of the Wii U.

I said this before....PS3, 360, Wii U:

PS3 - exclusives and access to many nice multi platform games that look n play nice.
360 - see above
Wii U - exclusives and......

The PS3 and 360 can cancel each other out for multi plat games. That leaves exclusives. Only the Wii U seems to be exclusive only....many players looking for decent multi plat games would have to go elsewhere.

Factor in the PS4 and XBO.....and it really doesnt look good for Nintendo. Remember the multi platform, multi player scenario too. I had to get Madden and 2K13 for the PS3 cuz thats what all my friends and co workers had.

Can multi platform, multi player games be connected across consoles? If not....its not looking good for Nintendo.

And I also dont understand why ppl think the quality of Nintendo games would suffer if they got out the hardware business. Imagine Nintendo working with "more powerful hardware". Thats supposed to all of a sudden make them create lesser games? Throughout history with hardware and software combos.....as the hardware got better, so did the software...(for the most part) Nintendo's hardware and software got better with each console. So how can even newer, better hardware = lesser quality games?

If thats the case....dont expect anything better than the Wii U hardware wise then. I mean they even did it from the Wii to Wii U.
 
Yeah, this is what is a bit weird. Nintendo must have earned a lot of money from their previous stuff. And are they even losing money on Wii U, 3DS, and the games they release on these platforms?
They loose money on the Wii U hardware.


FY3 2014 (two quarters)

Net Sales (Hardware): 91.484.000.000 Yen
Net Sales (Software): 104.385.000.000 Yen
Other (Cards, etc.): 713.000.000 Yen

Net Sales: 196.582.000.000 Yen


Net Sales: 196.582.000.000 Yen

Cost of sales (Production costs): 134.539.000.000 Yen

Gross profit: 62.042.000.000 (last year was 44 billion with the same net sales)


Selling, general & administrative expenses: 85.321.000.000 Yen

Operating Profit: - 23.278.000.000 Yen


Their Selling, general & administrative expenses are always around 200.000.000.000 Yen per year (despite the amount of their net sales), they need to raise their hardware & software profitability (what they're constantly doing).

Wii U hardware production cost being the biggest problem currently. And it's bad sales of course.
 
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