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[Dreamwriter]

The big problem is prices, not power, and has been since day 1. I worked on an iPhone launch title, and my company really wanted to do iPhone games at the same quality as our Nintendo DS games, but the pricing wouldn't allow it. When a company can make $20 profit from a game on one console, and $2 profit on a game from another device, do you think that company will ever support the $2 profit device? Sure, the target market is huge but that's a hell of a gamble, especially with how many competing games are coming out for mobile devices all the time.

Nope, you can't be serious.

This is Bioshock on the previous Ipad

Graphics aren't even on PS360 multiplat level, let alone exclusives, they will never reach PS3 exclusive level even if it was technically capable. No one's gonna dedicate a 3-4 year dev cycle with AAA budget to a mobile game. At best there'll be old multiplat ports like this.

As other people mentioned in this very thread multiple times, that game's graphic quality has *nothing* to do with the visual power of the device, and *everything* to do with the limited game size of 2GB for the entire game. Bioshock was designed to be quite a bit larger than 2GB installed.

 

[yogloo]

Smokydave fighting the good fight.
I'm too frustrated to just even read some of the comments in here.
Hats off to you sir.

 

[Jaagen]

The big problem is prices, not power, and has been since day 1. I worked on an iPhone launch title, and my company really wanted to do iPhone games at the same quality as our Nintendo DS games, but the pricing wouldn't allow it. When a company can make $20 profit from a game on one console, and $2 profit on a game from another device, do you think that company will ever support the $2 profit device? Sure, the target market is huge but that's a hell of a gamble, especially with how many competing games are coming out for mobile devices all the time.




As other people mentioned in this very thread multiple times, that game's graphic quality has *nothing* to do with the visual power of the device, and *everything* to do with the limited game size of 2GB for the entire game. Bioshock was designed to be quite a bit larger than 2GB installed.

I can see that for the textures and model quality, but is good lighting held back by storage contraints? Because that's what's breaks the atmosphere.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I can see that for the textures and model quality, but is good lighting held back by storage contraints? Because that's what's breaks the atmosphere.

Most games use extra textures to help with the lighting, so yes lighting would be effected by storage constraints.

 

[spwolf]

Well, my original point is that the only thing that advanced in mobile gaming is just getting shinier. But games will remain the same.
Now, don't misunderstand me. What I mean by mobile is a strict form factor. You know, people says that the rise of mobile gaming is due to the handheld and mobile fighting for the distractment time of people. But what people don't say is that mobile applications are fighting for battery life. It's pretty simple: Your demanding 3D games isn't going to be at home here.

About tablets.... that's another matter. I think the only way for it to become something is thanks to Windows tablets and Steam, which is something a LOT bigger than your average iOS/Android game.

main problem there is that Intel's integrated GPU's are not that great. So Tablet with x86 compatibility with Windows (which is what would be great) and great GPU does not exist... we will have to wait for it a bit more.

And also, nobody buys high end windows or android tablets... so I think we will be left with gaming laptops with Windows/Steam support but they might be becoming lighter and thinner in the future, plus convertible.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

As other people mentioned in this very thread multiple times, that game's graphic quality has *nothing* to do with the visual power of the device, and *everything* to do with the limited game size of 2GB for the entire game. Bioshock was designed to be quite a bit larger than 2GB installed.

What about the horrible Resolution/aliasing?

You don't need more storage to render at higher resolutions.

 

[Domstercool]

The big problem is prices, not power, and has been since day 1. I worked on an iPhone launch title, and my company really wanted to do iPhone games at the same quality as our Nintendo DS games, but the pricing wouldn't allow it. When a company can make $20 profit from a game on one console, and $2 profit on a game from another device, do you think that company will ever support the $2 profit device? Sure, the target market is huge but that's a hell of a gamble, especially with how many competing games are coming out for mobile devices all the time.




As other people mentioned in this very thread multiple times, that game's graphic quality has *nothing* to do with the visual power of the device, and *everything* to do with the limited game size of 2GB for the entire game. Bioshock was designed to be quite a bit larger than 2GB installed.

Size of a game doesn't change the aliasing or render resolution.

 

[SmokyDave]

Well, my original point is that the only thing that advanced in mobile gaming is just getting shinier. But games will remain the same.
Now, don't misunderstand me. What I mean by mobile is a strict form factor. You know, people says that the rise of mobile gaming is due to the handheld and mobile fighting for the distractment time of people. But what people don't say is that mobile applications are fighting for battery life. It's pretty simple: Your demanding 3D games isn't going to be at home here.

Dude, if you can't see any progression between Flight Control and XCom: Enemy Unknown then I don't know what to say to you.

I suspect you don't really know what's been going on in the mobile space. Same for people that think Bioshock represents the high water mark for mobile graphics.

 

[Suzushiiro]

As other people mentioned in this very thread multiple times, that game's graphic quality has *nothing* to do with the visual power of the device, and *everything* to do with the limited game size of 2GB for the entire game. Bioshock was designed to be quite a bit larger than 2GB installed.

Yeah, mobile is at the point that consoles were at in the early 90s before 3D became a thing, where the major limiting technical factor isn't processor horsepower but RAM and storage space. A mobile device's CPU/GPU being on the level of a PS3 or even PS4 doesn't matter if its file size is limited to 2-4GB and effectively only has less than 1GB RAM to work with.

 

[fog]

Most of the genres that would benefit from this increase in power are the very genres least suited to the controls on standard phones and tablets. No amount of extra processing power can fix that.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

Funny enough nba 2k15 just hit ios and I was surprised at how well it looked. It's not 360 quality, but the animations seem to be there, and presentstion wise looks quite nice. Easily the best looking mobile basketball game ever.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/MzEd5E3RWWs

Still bitter nba 2k never showed up on vita.

Does it play well / have any sort of depth? I'm thinking of picking up an iOS controller soon and would definitely like a good basketball game.

 

[bodine1231]

Yeah, mobile is at the point that consoles were at in the early 90s before 3D became a thing, where the major limiting technical factor isn't processor horsepower but RAM and storage space. A mobile device's CPU/GPU being on the level of a PS3 or even PS4 doesn't matter if its file size is limited to 2-4GB and effectively only has less than 1GB RAM to work with.

Battery life is an even bigger hurdle,you need juice to push all them polygons. The money also isn't there for large or even medium sized teams because how used to people have gotten to mobile game prices.

 

[Paracelsus]

Meanwhile, they can't produce batteries able to run wi-fi and a game for more than two hours.

 

[SmokyDave]

Battery life is a legit concern for sure. Nothing to stop you plugging your device in, but it's still not ideal.

Most of the genres that would benefit from this increase in power are the very genres least suited to the controls on standard phones and tablets. No amount of extra processing power can fix that.

No, but buying a controller can.

At a point, this complaint sounds like saying 'most console ports would be wasted on PC because those genres are not suited to the controls on a standard PC'. The answer to both is 'buy a control pad then'.

 

[Maybesew]

I can see that for the textures and model quality, but is good lighting held back by storage contraints? Because that's what's breaks the atmosphere.

I'm having brain freeze right now but a recent game mentioned on either giant bombcast or the Playstation blogcast said that about half of the games download was attributed to lighting data.

 

[AmFreak]

What does this prove? That comparison is misleading and provides no actual perspective about what that number translates to in terms of real world performance.

Let's do a bit more research:

A Nexus 9(Tegra K1) single core Geekbench score is about 1900 @ 2.3Ghz, see here and here. We can also see that it scores about a 3200 for multi core performance.

An AMD A6-5200 is a 4 core Jaguar chip clocked at 2.0Ghz, it's pretty old at this point, and I'd expect the ones in the X1 and PS4 to be at least slightly modified, but lets compare it to the scores from the Tegra K1 using Geekbench's Website. It scores:

Single Core: 1030
Multi Core: 3267

So even though each core of the Tegra K1 is almost 50% faster than a single core from the 4 core Jaguar chip, the Jaguar chip ends up basically matching the K1's multi core score. Why is this? Because mobile CPU's still throttle like crazy. These CPU's are capable of operating at 2.3Ghz, but they rarely ever do due to power limitations. They're still struggling to operate at half of that speed for longer than an hour. Because of this, the X1/PS4 CPU is easily twice as fast as the Tegra K1, and it's one of the slowest x86 processors put into anything ever.

By the core these mobile CPU's are becoming legitimately more competent, but they only have 2 cores, or 4 cores that they can only use at 2/3rds of their full load. The X1 and PS4 CPU's have 8 cores with no power restraints. The performance these CPU's can obtain in real world usage is still worlds apart.

And just for reference, since Jaguar is such a poor example of how a modern gaming CPU should perform. Here's how an i7-3770, also a mid-2012 Intel release, scores:

Single Core: 3186
Multi Core: 12467

See how the score multiples damn evenly? The Tegra K1 doesn't even double. It's basically a 4 core chip stuck in hardware that can only utilize 1.5 cores.

The K1 and A8 are both fantastic achievements for Apple and nVidia, but for us, it's just our yearly 30% performance increase. Maybe 6 years from now it'll be a different story.

tl:dr In Geekbench, the Tegra K1 in the Nexus 9 is about as fast as a single core from an i7-3770. OR half of the X1/PS4 CPU.

That's cool and all, till you realize that the Tegra (Denver) only has 2 cores.

 

[Dragon]

The day that you can get day and date versions of games like BioShock that are comparable is the day I start using my iPad and PS4 controller hooked to it. You can do that right? There isn't some shitty Apple policy that makes you use their ultra shitty controller?

I'm having brain freeze right now but a recent game mentioned on either giant bombcast or the Playstation blogcast said that about half of the games download was attributed to lighting data.

Assassin's Creed: Unity.

 

[davepoobond]

And yet games like cut the rope, candy crush, and angry birds are the only games people like to play on the thing.

The power of the iPads have never really been the issue. It's the controls and demographics of the users that don't allow it to become a "core gamer" device like ps3 or 360

 

[Flai]

That's cool and all, till you realize that the Tegra (Denver) only has 2 cores.

Yep

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Yeah, mobile is at the point that consoles were at in the early 90s before 3D became a thing, where the major limiting technical factor isn't processor horsepower but RAM and storage space. A mobile device's CPU/GPU being on the level of a PS3 or even PS4 doesn't matter if its file size is limited to 2-4GB and effectively only has less than 1GB RAM to work with.

Storage space is a solvable problem with procedural textures and procedural animations though; the fact people aren't spending much time looking into it is because currently target platforms have more storage space then they really need.

This is a tech demo from almost a decade ago of an FPS in less than 96Kb.

 

[SmokyDave]

And yet games like cut the rope, candy crush, and angry birds are the only games people like to play on the thing.

Current top 3 games in the UK:

1; Plague Inc - cool strategy game where you propagate a virus or other infection.
2; Minecraft: PE - Well, it's Minecraft.
3; Construction Simulator 2014 - Remarkably deep construction sim from the Farm Simulator guys.

The top grossing definitely shows the same ol' same ol' though. Clash of Clans / Candy Crush / Game or War. Mind you, we don't judge all console gaming by CoD / FIFA / Whateverthethirdtitlewouldbe.

 

[njean777]

Battery life is a legit concern for sure. Nothing to stop you plugging your device in, but it's still not ideal.


No, but buying a controller can.

At a point, this complaint sounds like saying 'most console ports would be wasted on PC because those genres are not suited to the controls on a standard PC'. The answer to both is 'buy a control pad then'.

I already spent 500$ on this device, and for games you are probably looking at the 600$ or 700$ version (more space). Why do I need to go spend even more money to hook it up to my tv, and buy a controller. You are looking at about 100 extra dollars. Now we are getting to decent gaming rig prices that will vastly out perform a tablet in every single way possible. No reason then to buy games on mobile when the better versions can be had on PC or consoles for cheaper.

 

[industrian]

I feel like I've heard this for the past three or four years and I still haven't seen any games that showcase this.

How many tablet games have budgets of $50-100 million and 3-5 year development cycles?

 

[bodine1231]

Current top 3 games in the UK:

1; Plague Inc - cool strategy game where you propagate a virus or other infection.
2; Minecraft: PE - Well, it's Minecraft.
3; Construction Simulator 2014 - Remarkably deep construction sim from the Farm Simulator guys.

1. .99c
2. $7.00
3. .99

The pricing model is whats going to hold back great games. I know my nephews laugh at anything over $10 on the app store.

How many tablet games have budgets of $50-100 million and 3-5 year development cycles?

None,because you cant charge over $10 or nobody will buy your game.

 

[Maybesew]

The day that you can get day and date versions of games like BioShock that are comparable is the day I start using my iPad and PS4 controller hooked to it. You can do that right? There isn't some shitty Apple policy that makes you use their ultra shitty controller?



Assassin's Creed: Unity.

Thank you that was going to drive me crazy.

 

[Contra11]

And yet nothing portable can emulate the fucking PS2
i am still dreaming about playing my ps2 huge library of games on a portable platform

 

[Corgi]

Does it play well / have any sort of depth? I'm thinking of picking up an iOS controller soon and would definitely like a good basketball game.

controls actually is more appealing to me. I mean i finally figured out the right stick in console game, but still a simpler arcade like controls is good.

Seems like impressions are solid gameplay wise, but currently there is only quickplay and my career modes, so might wait a bit for the other modes to be patched in before jumping.

 

[mrklaw]

How many tablet games have budgets of $50-100 million and 3-5 year development cycles?

you could relatively cheaply reuse assets from existing games - like the bioshock port

 

[GhostTrick]

And yet nothing portable can emulate the fucking PS2
i am still dreaming about playing my ps2 huge library of games on a portable platform

Except this

 

[JordanN]

you could relatively cheaply reuse assets from existing games - like the bioshock port

That's not how AAA game development works.

Reusing assets = putting out a generic game. It also still costs a lot of money to build a level.

 

[PARTYNEXTDOOR]

The shield tablet can game graphical intensive games for around 6 hours without a charge.

If you compare the K1 CPU to the best gaming CPU on the market in 2005(X360 launch) then the K1 is superior.

The GPU is better than the Xbox 360's.

Ports are becoming more common on Ios and android than ever. (Bioshock, Nba 2K15, Xcom, Amazing Spider Man, Madden)

Porting gamed to Ios and android is easy and cost efficient. Devs will port it to mobile devices because it is profitable because of kow licensing fees and porting cost and it advertises itself.

When you factor in all of these facts its pretty obvious to see most of Gaf has some type of vendetta against mobile gaming. Or have no idea what they're talking about.

I emulated games and nuktitasked on my Xperia Z tablet so all the extra power the Nexus and Shield are giving me will be used when I buy one. DOLPHIN EMULATION ftw.

 

[SmokyDave]

I already spent 500$ on this device, and for games you are probably looking at the 600$ or 700$ version (more space). Why do I need to go spend even more money to hook it up to my tv, and buy a controller. You are looking at about 100 extra dollars. Now we are getting to decent gaming rig prices that will vastly out perform a tablet in every single way possible. No reason then to buy games on mobile when the better versions can be had on PC or consoles for cheaper.

I can't and won't argue with any of that. Sounds like a terrible choice for you. I already buy tablets because I much prefer light browsing and media consumption on them, rather than firing up my PC. I buy games like FTL and XCom at the moment, games that don't need a controller. I have my Vita for 'core' games on the go. Once the Vita drops dead in a year or two, I'll simply buy a controller (£50) and go about my business on a tablet or phone instead. I don't see it as buying a dedicated games device, it's just playing games on a device I already own.

1. .99c
2. $7.00
3. .99

The pricing model is whats going to hold back great games. I know my nephews laugh at anything over $10 on the app store.

That's not what we were talking about though. In addition, I suspect Square-Enix and 2K would tell you that you very much can sell apps for more than $10.

 

[GhostTrick]

Dude, if you can't see any progression between Flight Control and XCom: Enemy Unknown then I don't know what to say to you.

I suspect you don't really know what's been going on in the mobile space. Same for people that think Bioshock represents the high water mark for mobile graphics.

Great ! Ports !
What about when we won't have anything left to port ? I know exactly what's going on in the mobile space. I own a high end Android device, I own a Windows tablet, and I know what's going on in the iOS space. Bioshock is running bad, DQVIII (a PS2 game) is running really bad. The best looking iOS titles are limited and are good looking in surface.

 

[SmokyDave]

Great ! Ports !
What about when we won't have anything left to port ? I know exactly what's going on in the mobile space. I own a high end Android device, I own a Windows tablet, and I know what's going on in the iOS space. Bioshock is running bad, DQVIII (a PS2 game) is running really bad. The best looking iOS titles are limited and are good looking in surface.

...I'm just chasing moving goalposts here, aren't I?

'Mobile games aren't changing'

'Mobile games have changed'

'But they're ports!'

Fuck it, man. You keep pissing into the wind, I'm off to fly a kite.

 

[bodine1231]

That's not what we were talking about though. In addition, I suspect Square-Enix and 2K would tell you that you very much can sell apps for more than $10.

Sure we are. People on here are arguing with you that its controls or gpu or battery life thats preventing mobile from matching consoles. I'm saying that its money. The time and manpower it takes to create those assets can't be justified giving the mobile pricing model. I don't see that changing anytime soon. Kids have grown up now with the .99 app store and are used to paying those prices. You can't all of a sudden ask them to pay 30x the amount for better graphics.

And those Square games never even sniff the top 50 unless they are on sale.

 

[PARTYNEXTDOOR]

Sure we are. People on here are arguing with you that its controls or gpu or battery life thats preventing mobile from matching consoles. I'm saying that its money. The time and manpower it takes to create those assets can't be justified giving the mobile pricing model. I don't see that changing anytime soon. Kids have grown up now with the .99 app store and are used to paying those prices. You can't all of a sudden ask them to pay 30x the amount for better graphics.

And those Square games never even sniff the top 50 unless they are on sale.

The ports are profitable. Reason why they keep porting and the overall quality of the ports are increasing and with higher spec devices coming out so will performance and whatnot.


Look no one is saying it will replace console gaming but mobile gaming isn't as shallow as some of you make it out to be. I mean arguing over controls when its easy as fuck to hook a gamepad to Moba. Really?

 

[GhostTrick]

...I'm just chasing moving goalposts here, aren't I?

'Mobile games aren't changing'

'Mobile games have changed'

'But they're ports!'

Fuck it, man. You keep pissing into the wind, I'm off to fly a kite.

You're not. As I said, a lot of mobile games keep chasing the same scheme, the difference is that they look better.. For the one you might call different, you're mainly seeing bad ports not even equal to PS2 hardware sometimes !

main problem there is that Intel's integrated GPU's are not that great. So Tablet with x86 compatibility with Windows (which is what would be great) and great GPU does not exist... we will have to wait for it a bit more.

And also, nobody buys high end windows or android tablets... so I think we will be left with gaming laptops with Windows/Steam support but they might be becoming lighter and thinner in the future, plus convertible.

They've changed since Baytrail architecture. Just look at Youtube videos of baytrail tablets. It runs easily UE3 games such as Mass Effect or Batman. And that's just the first gen. The second one should be twice more powerful on the GPU side. And this is for 100 dollars Windows 8 tablets.

For the higher end, check out Intel Core M. This should gives better performances than PS360 games.

 

[Lonely1]

Dude, if you can't see any progression between Flight Control and XCom: Enemy Unknown then I don't know what to say to you.

Sorry SomokyDave, but I'm not nearly as optimistic as you for the future of the platform: one is an original game and the other is a port of an existing game. All I can see in the mobile space is that more and more developers that previously were making original premium games for mobile are changing to the freemium model. Sure, there are still developers, mostly small indies, that are still using the one charge you get the full experience model, but such games aren't the ones the ones people refers to as "console grade".

The exception of course are ports of old games, like XCOM, Bioshock, HL2, the GTAs and SE games. But if ports is the only AAA experience we can expect going forward, we indeed lost something with the collapse of dedicated portable gaming hardware.

 

[Shadowhaxor]

I've had more fun playing Infinity Blade 2 than I did Demon Souls. Infinity Blade also was more visually appealing.

I'm not one to judge but how the hell is that possible? Looks better than Demon Souls? Are we talking about the same game here?

 

[mutsu]

The problem in the short term is that nobody in their right mind will code their game just for the iPad Air 2. Sacrificing the entire iPhone/iPad market and choosing to code a game that is only playable on iPad Air 2 is an insane move, the addressable market is just so much smaller. So games will continue to not look as good as PS360 games until years later.

 

[StarCreator]

What about the horrible Resolution/aliasing?

You don't need more storage to render at higher resolutions.

Size of a game doesn't change the aliasing or render resolution.

Easy explanation: it's a bad, lazy port. The hardware has been proven to be capable of more, so clearly the software is at fault.

 

[SmokyDave]

Sorry SomokyDave, but I'm not nearly as optimistic as you for the future of the platform: one is an original game and the other is a port of an existing game. All I can see in the mobile space is that more and more developers that previously were making original premium games for mobile are changing to the freemium model. Sure, there are still developers, mostly small indies, that are still using the one charge you get the full experience model, but such games aren't the ones the ones people refers to as "console grade".

Eh, you still got stuff like Monument Valley, DEVICE6, Badlands, and The Room. There are still plenty of original titles out there. Of course, they're effectively on par with console indies, and we know what gamers think of those.

The freemium model does fucking suck though, no doubts about that.

The exception of course are ports of old games, like XCOM, Bioshock, HL2, the GTAs and SE games. But if ports is the only AAA experience we can expect going forward, we indeed lost something with the collapse of dedicated portable gaming hardware.

I'm an edge case because I've always wanted a handheld capable of receiving ports from consoles. I'd take a port of Fallout 3 over any original handheld title. I get that I'm in the minority there though.

 

[SmokedMeat]

And yet games like cut the rope, candy crush, and angry birds are the only games people like to play on the thing.

That's like saying Halo is the only thing people play on Xbox.

 

[GhostTrick]

I'm an edge case because I've always wanted a handheld capable of receiving ports from consoles. I'd take a port of Fallout 3 over any original handheld title. I get that I'm in the minority there though.

That's why I told you I see a bigger opportunity thanks to Windows 8 tablets. You want a Fallout 3 port ? Why would you want a port when the original game is already up and running on these tablets ?

 

[Lonely1]

That's why I told you I see a bigger opportunity thanks to Windows 8 tablets. You want a Fallout 3 port ? Why would you want a port when the original game is already up and running on these tablets ?

Eh, a tablet + a controller isn't what I would call a handheld experience. I bought HL2 for my shield even thought I own the PC version and a win tablet, and i don't regret it. Handheld form factor is worth it. But I prefer original software that I haven't played before...

 

[entremet]

I wonder how the Nexus 9 compares

Basically the same hardware. Meaning, it's like comparing two x86 computing platforms.

 

[SmokyDave]

That's why I told you I see a bigger opportunity thanks to Windows 8 tablets. You want a Fallout 3 port ? Why would you want a port when the original game is already up and running on these tablets ?

That's fine, man. I think the app store is the most promising of the closed gardens, but I'm totally on board the idea of a native Win8 tablet. I'm just waiting for the dust to settle on models to decide which to buy (or whether to buy a Shield). The idea of accessing my Steam library on a tablet with a bluetooth controller makes me salivate.

 

[GhostTrick]

Eh, a tablet + a controller isn't what I would call a handheld experience. I bought HL2 for my shield even thought I own the PC version and a win tablet, and i don't regret it. Handheld form factor is worth it. But I prefer original software that I haven't played before...

Of course, but it's paving the way for such device. As I said, you can already fit easily a baytrail soc on a 7 inch tablet... with Cherrytrail being 14nm, there's nothing preventing a Shield like x86 device.

 

[flkraven]

These iPads have a starting price of $500. I don't see how anyone expected them to not rapidly progress to 360/ps3 level graphics. I wouldn't be surprised if we see XB1/PS4 level graphics in like 3 years. The reason mobile gaming lagged so far behind in the past is because people weren't willing to pay $700-$800 for a device, but with tablets, people are.

 

[foltzie1]

one big issue with game development on iOS is that the only way you can do a hard lock-out of certain devices is by restricting it by iOS software version.
App developers tend to target the devices with the biggest install base anyways and, given that Apple still sells the iPad mini 1 (which is essentially an iPad 2 in a smaller form factor), the gap between the low end and high end of devices is as big as it's never been.



a good, recent read:
http://www.allenpike.com/2014/the-ipad-zombie/

(tl;dr: iPad mini with hardware from the iPhone 4S is still being sold and runs iOS 8, yet is as powerful as the iPad 2 (you know, the one just slightly above the iPad 1 on that "180x faster GPU!" line graph). regardless of "you can't run this shit" in your app description, people will download your app if there is no actual restriction keeping them from doing so and will give you bad reviews.)

This is a great post.

I would add the current AppleTV is running the same SOC as the 4S, Mini, and iPad2, but at some point an upgrade is going to be feasible and maintain that $99 price (which is key for the core ATV functions).

It just depends if Apple has any interest in releasing a good controller (their MFI controllers stink) and actually going after the more traditional game market. They might not have that interest, as they are already making 30% from games like Candy Crush and they dont have to compromise their interface to support that kind of game.

Heck, if they keep the same returns on speed, I'm curious what iteration will catch up with the Current gen systems (probably next year for the Wii U, if not already).

Edit: TLDR, Apple's iPad Air2 might not be a system killer some suppose it to be, but it is certainly an indication of where Apple could take things with a bit more time.